The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Zavala 1384]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

Precisely.  It sure appears Barr compartmentalized his letter to address "Trump colluding with Russian government."  That's highly specific.  That specificity was Barr's choice of words likely exclusionary of a lot of other circumstantial evidence related to alternate means Trump was aware of the coordinated attack, i.e. through non-campaign member Roger Stone.  Trump never would be the one colluding personally with the Russian government over the DNC hack and release.

Huh, I read Trump campaign or anyone associated with it

[retread 2951]

3 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Precisely.  It sure appears Barr compartmentalized his letter to address "Trump colluding with Russian government."  That's highly specific.  That specificity was Barr's choice of words likely exclusionary of a lot of other circumstantial evidence related to alternate means Trump was aware of the coordinated attack, i.e. through non-campaign member Roger Stone.  Trump never would be the one colluding personally with the Russian government over the DNC hack and release.

Yep. DOTUS and the Rs are a mob family running DC.

[Incredulity 11669]

3 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Precisely.  It sure appears Barr compartmentalized his letter to address "Trump colluding with Russian government."  That's highly specific.  That specificity was Barr's choice of words likely exclusionary of a lot of other circumstantial evidence related to alternate means Trump was aware of the coordinated attack, i.e. through non-campaign member Roger Stone.  Trump never would be the one colluding personally with the Russian government over the DNC hack and release.

Fan fiction won't stop.

[udaydanceparty 33]

2 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Right wing shout down crew still out in full force I see. 

Don't see how any American can take issue with wanting the full report released. Your side especially, since it you think it clears Trump, even though Mueller/Barr expressly said it doesn't. 

I took a long break from Surly specifically because of how hostile the politics forum was to conservatives that even slightly pushed back at this insane conspiracy theory.  I thought it was a waste of my time to argue since certain posters were going full on tin foil.  Now even after "Mueller Time!" completely clear the President and his campaign of collusion you are still grasping for straws.  Take the L.

[EMAWesome 101]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's one reason he seems so hell-bent on getting reelected.  He's currently 72 years old.  He'd be 78 years old at the end of a second term.  Odds are decent he won't live that long -- life expectancy of US men is currently 76 years, and moderate obesity knocks 3 years off that number.  Soon he'll be living on borrowed time.  (For all I know, he already is -- I have no idea  how life expectancy is determined.  Is it the current average age of death, or is it a projection of expected life for a current newborn?)

For what it's worth, that 3 year "obesity" correction assumes a BMI between 30 and 35.  Trump's latest physical indicated a BMI of 30.4 (6'3" + 243 lbs), and I'd bet a whole lot of donuts that he's actually far heavier.  So, if he gets into the 40+ range on BMI, he's looking at a 10 year hit on life expectancy, or age 66.

tldr;  don't expect Trump to ever stand trial if he makes it to a second term

That would be the life expectancy for U.S. men who 

1.  Aren't obscenely wealthy and able to afford the best medical care in the world.

2.  Will not have Secret Service protection for the rest of their life

If you do not fall into categories one or two today your life expectancy tends toward Reagan, GHWB, and Carter.

 

[Hank Kingsley 20925]

I will reiterate that I think a lot of Americans (including the MSM) don't want to admit how corrupt and fucked up our country has become at OUR OWN doing.  Not sure if it's consciously or subconsciously, but trying to put most of the blame on a foreign adversary is just a form of denial.  Stop talking about the people trying to pour gasoline on the fire and instead focus on what started it. 

The best end result for us is that the Mueller Report is considered a full-on dud in regards to Trump's complicity in regards to Russia. Let's concentrate on his administration's daily actions and a Republican Party that has bent the knee to a conman. 

 

 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Fan fiction won't stop.

 

[Fozzz 152]

 

 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Just now, udaydanceparty said:

I took a long break from Surly specifically because of how hostile the politics forum was to conservatives that even slightly pushed back at this insane conspiracy theory.  I thought it was a waste of my time to argue since certain posters were going full on tin foil.  Now even after "Mueller Time!" completely clear the President and his campaign of collusion you are still grasping for straws.  Take the L.

No one cares. Add to the discussion or post less.

[udaydanceparty 33]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

 

I think the odds are pretty good it gets released in full and it basically hands Trump 2020.

[Hate 20108]

 

If she is going to march in a street, can she please choose Beltway 8 between 290 and I45 around 9:30 AM or 3:30 PM? That would be great.

[EMAWesome 101]

2 hours ago, sachick said:

Trump won’t resign. Trump won’t be impeached. He’ll finish his term. We all know his team helped/encouraged Russia even it wasn’t actively coordinating. But he and probably his sons and Kushner will eventually be taken down for illegal business practices of some sort after the Trump presidency. Trump is a crook and has been for years. Now every aspect of his business is being looked into. He’ll eventually be fucked.

Nice impersonation of a Democrat senator at the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings.

[triplehorn 2664]

1 minute ago, Zavala said:

Huh, I read Trump campaign or anyone associated with it

"The first involved attempts by a Russian organization, the Internet
Research Agency (IRA), to conduct disinformation and social media operations in the United States 
designed to sow social discord, eventually with the aim of interfering with the election. As
noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that any US. person or Trump campaign official or
associate conspired or knowingly coordinated with the IRA in its efforts, although the Special
Counsel brought criminal charges against a number of Russian nationals and entities in connection
with these activities."

Ok, upon that review, note there's a different layer of compartmentalization Barr is using here:  Internet Research Agency vs. Guccifer2.0/Wikileaks.

Stone is a US person and Trump associate whose lying and witness tampering related to his interactions with Guccifer2.0/Wikileaks around release of the hacked DNC material, NOT Stone interactions with IRA !

 

The election attack by Russia had multiple layers.  Barr's letter only speaks to the circumstance around the IRA, which may be correct, but it could be deliberately exclusionary of all the other evidence, ie. US person Roger Stone and coordinating with GRU with Trump campaign awareness and green light..

Not even 24hrs in and this is starting to smell like fish paper.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I will reiterate that I think a lot of Americans (including the MSM) don't want to admit how corrupt and fucked up our country has become at OUR OWN doing.  Not sure if it's consciously or subconsciously, but trying to put most of the blame on a foreign adversary is just a form of denial.  Stop talking about the people trying to pour gasoline on the fire and instead focus on what started it. 

The best end result for us is that the Mueller Report is considered a full-on dud in regards to Trump's complicity in regards to Russia. Let's concentrate on his administration's daily actions and a Republican Party that has bent the knee to a conman. 

If a hostile foreign power can control our candidates, media, elections, and government without consequences, what’s the point of concentrating on other issues?

Im not saying a foreign power has pulled that off but they’re trying real hard.  

But no, let’s talk about FISA abuse and Hillary’s emails... that’s where the real danger is.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

5 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

No one cares. Add to the discussion or post less.

 

[EMAWesome 101]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Nope, you're investigated, and it's all public record at that point.  Might suck, but them's the breaks.

So if someone makes a bogus claim that you diddled with kids at a school playground and the ensuing investigation finds no evidence of you doing this but does record you on video eating your own boogers that video should be made available to the public?  Might suck but them's the breaks?

[immamac 42845]

Stay on topic. Final warning - off topic posts will result in having cloak room access revoked temporarily. I'm not going full on ban happy, but I'm tired of all these reports I'm getting for stupid unnecessary shit flinging in this thread. We get it, this is a fucking hot button issue - put your big boy pants on and debate or add commentary to it and stop personally attacking people.

[udaydanceparty 33]

1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

So if someone makes a bogus claim that you diddled with kids at a school playground and the ensuing investigation finds no evidence of you doing this but does record you on video eating your own boogers that video should be made available to the public?  Might suck but them's the breaks?

This is the same issue I have with releasing it to the public.  I think it should be released to Congress for sure.  There needs to be some level of discussion among the leaders of both parties about how far the public disclosures need to go. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If a hostile foreign power can control our candidates, media, elections, and government without consequences, what’s the point of concentrating on other issues?

Because we have investigative bodies to handle the investigations of those other matters. Meanwhile, ...

- Millions of Americans don't have healthcare coverage
- Millions of Americans don't have safe places to live that they can afford
- Millions of Americans are drowning in debt
- Millions of American kids are food insecure
- Millions of Americans are dramatically underpaid for their work

So what you do is pretty simple: you nominate and elect good people to institute those policies and then, in the course of their duties, they will also fight these far less important battles with Russia and online trolls.

It is only because your own life is either so profoundly comfortable or your mind is so profoundly deranged that you don't understand what actually matters to the lives of Americans. They don't care about Russia. They care about their kids dying of drug overdoses and their elderly relatives dying younger every year.

You sound like a Republican in 2010 saying, "How can we care about healthcare when we've got THE NATIONAL DEBT!?!?!"

[BradInATX 9208]

39 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Comey is the single person most responsible for the election of Donald Trump as President. #mistakesweremade

It's a fascinating case study in the strangest case of Stockholm syndrome I've ever seen. The two people Hugo defends the most on this board are James Comey and Hillary Clinton, who are the two people most responsible for the fact that Hillary Clinton isn't president today.

Edited March 25, 2019 by BradInATX

[Gil Bang 25950]

 

[Zavala 1384]

4 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I've been told he had secret meetings in hotels with russians.  It was very commonly talked about on this thread.  

Remember the Mountain of evidence of collusion guaranteed by Democrat leadership?

[David Dennison 18856]

5 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I've been told he had secret meetings in hotels with russians.  It was very commonly talked about on this thread.  

The Trump Organization was negotiating with Russia throughout the 2016 campaign. They lied about it.

[udaydanceparty 33]

4 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I've been told he had secret meetings in hotels with russians.  It was very commonly talked about on this thread.  

From page 1 this was about impeaching the president for treason that never happened.

[Captainant 27660]

17 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

 

 

This is such a shitty take. This isn't a made-up conspiracy theory. This is a substantive investigative report that has lead to multiple indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas. The house voted without objection to release the entire report, which is a central piece of a national public interest. 

Fuck your false equivalency

[Gatorubet 30233]

Remember the Mountain of evidence of collusion guaranteed by Democrat leadership?

link to dem leadership mountain of guaranteed evidence of collusion proof? There is much evidence he lied about things like the purpose of the tower meeting.

Why would a rational person lie about that? But he did. All while sucking off Putin. Its just bizarre.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[triplehorn 2664]

5 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I've been told he had secret meetings in hotels with russians.  It was very commonly talked about on this thread.  

If he did, it was either with hookers or talking about getting Trump Tower Moscow built, or both - but something other than coordinating with Russian government around timing and release of DNC hacks.  That was Stone’s role.

[4th&Five 41531]

L. O. L.

 

[udaydanceparty 33]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This is such a shitty take. This isn't a made-up conspiracy theory. This is a substantive investigative report that has lead to multiple indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas. The house voted without objection to release the entire report, which is a central piece of a national public interest. 

Fuck your false equivalency

You are right.. the piss tape is on par with the Michele Obama having a penis conspiracy theory.  The Russia collusion conspiracy as a whole is much closer to Bush's WMD in Iraq hoax.  A lot of people believed that as well.

[David Dennison 18856]

5 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Remember the Mountain of evidence of collusion guaranteed by Democrat leadership?

Let's see the report and the evidence. There might not be any evidence. But I don't think anyone believes that.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

47 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Comey is the single person most responsible for the election of Donald Trump as President. #mistakesweremade

Well, that's just fucking stupid.  Donald Trump is far and away the single person most responsible for the election of Donald Trump.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Because we have investigative bodies to handle the investigations of those other matters. Meanwhile, ...

- Millions of Americans don't have healthcare coverage
- Millions of Americans don't have safe places to live that they can afford
- Millions of Americans are drowning in debt
- Millions of American kids are food insecure
- Millions of Americans are dramatically underpaid for their work

So what you do is pretty simple: you nominate and elect good people to institute those policies and then, in the course of their duties, they will also fight these far less important battles with Russia and online trolls.

It is only because your own life is either so profoundly comfortable or your mind is so profoundly deranged that you don't understand what actually matters to the lives of Americans. They don't care about Russia. They care about their kids dying of drug overdoses and their elderly relatives dying younger every year.

You sound like a Republican in 2010 saying, "How can we care about healthcare when we've got THE NATIONAL DEBT!?!?!"

I agree the solution is better people that are in it for the right reasons.  

I just think we’re entering a new era in cyber warfare and if our population doesn’t inoculate against it or work towards safeguarding against this threat, our problems will be exacerbated.

I think we are way behind because European countries like Sweden, Finland, and Norway have been fighting this shit hard for years while we’ve been looking the other way.  Some of them have figured out how to successfully combat it and if we don’t start following their lead, it will be bad. It is already bad enough. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/01/why-is-finland-able-to-fend-off-putins-information-war/amp/

Everyone has their good causes to fight for whether it’s health care, combating homelessness, criminal justice reform, or climate change.

 I don’t understand why defending democracy from bad actors should be treated any differently.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

41 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Sorry, the copy editor in me couldn't let that typo go by.

You kinda blew that edit, Ace.

[Captainant 27660]

1 minute ago, udaydanceparty said:

You are right.. the piss tape is on par with the Michele Obama having a penis conspiracy theory.  The Russia collusion conspiracy as a whole is much closer to Bush's WMD in Iraq hoax.  A lot of people believed that as well.

Oh nice job trying to set the grounds for the conversation that the Russia investigation is just a hoax. It's not like our Intel community is certain that Russia successfully fucked with our political process, while the man who benefited from said fuckery is adamant nothing happened, and even believes the Russians over our service members

[David Dennison 18856]

20 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

So if someone makes a bogus claim that you diddled with kids at a school playground and the ensuing investigation finds no evidence of you doing this but does record you on video eating your own boogers that video should be made available to the public?  Might suck but them's the breaks?

You keep saying there's no evidence. You don't know that. The AG's letter did not say Robert Mueller found no evidence of collusion or conspiracy.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

26 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

Just because i'm black, doesn't make me your slave.  Eat a dick

#blexit 

[jimmyjazz 45915]

39 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Huh, I read Trump campaign or anyone associated with it

And yet you didn't (correctly) read his post.

[Dolemite 143]

Apologies to President Trump

Quote

With the conclusions of special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe now known to a significant degree, it seems apologies are in order.

However, judging by the recent past, apologies are not likely forthcoming from the responsible parties.

In this context, it matters not whether one is a supporter or a critic of President Trump.

Whatever his supposed flaws, the rampant accusations and speculation that shrouded Trump’s presidency, even before it began, ultimately have proven unfounded. Just as Trump said all along.

Yet, each time Trump said so, some of us in the media lampooned him. We treated any words he spoke in his own defense as if they were automatically to be disbelieved because he had uttered them. Some even declared his words to be “lies,” although they had no evidence to back up their claims. 

We in the media allowed unproven charges and false accusations to dominate the news landscape for more than two years, in a way that was wildly unbalanced and disproportionate to the evidence.

We did a poor job of tracking down leaks of false information. We failed to reasonably weigh the motives of anonymous sources and those claiming to have secret, special evidence of Trump’s “treason.”

As such, we reported a tremendous amount of false information, always to Trump’s detriment.

And when we corrected our mistakes, we often doubled down more than we apologized. We may have been technically wrong on that tiny point, we would acknowledge. But, in the same breath, we would insist that Trump was so obviously guilty of being Russian President Vladimir Putin’s puppet that the technical details hardly mattered.

So, a round of apologies seem in order.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/435552-apologies-to-president-trump

 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

It's very weird that people on both sides think something nearly 600 days out from the election will have any impact on it whatsoever.  

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, tjhooker said:

Also, that would not exonerate him from diddling the kids just they didn't find evidence.

But in this case, there may be evidence. We'll only know that once we read the report. 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

15 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

I'm just going to take a wild guess and say he isn't under the influence of a foreign power...well unless that foreign power said nice things about him last week.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

You are right.. the piss tape is on par with the Michele Obama having a penis conspiracy theory.  The Russia collusion conspiracy as a whole is much closer to Bush's WMD in Iraq hoax.  A lot of people believed that as well.

Piss tape could be real  Most of the dossier has turned out to be true.  It just doesn't provide leverage so its useless for blackmail.  How many porn stars has Trump been caught paying off?  Who cares if he gets a little kinky sometimes.  You could put the tape on youtube today and not a thing would happen and Trump wouldn't care.  Who knows what other shit the Enquirer has caught and killed.  Most of the rest will eventually come out and it also won't matter.

Edited March 25, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Just now, Dolemite said:

Apologies to President Trump

 

LOL

Sharyl Attkisson (born January 26, 1961)^[4] is an American author and host of Full Measure with Sharyl Attkisson on television stations operated by the conservative media company Sinclair Broadcast Group.^[5] She was formerly an investigative correspondent in the Washington bureau for CBS News. She had also substituted as anchor for the CBS Evening News.

She resigned from CBS News on March 10, 2014, after 21 years with the network. She subsequently authored the book Stonewalled, in which she alleged that CBS News failed to give sufficient coverage of Obama controversies, such as the 2012 Benghazi attack.^[6]

[Biff Tannen 45678]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You keep saying there's no evidence. You don't know that. The AG's letter did not say Robert Mueller found no evidence of collusion or conspiracy.

This is what 95% of the public sees though.  I think the AG coming out with this before the full report really sealed the deal.  It was mentioned upthread somewhere, but this is a great example of Rs creating a situation that the Ds have to react to, instead of the other way around.

[udaydanceparty 33]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Oh nice job trying to set the grounds for the conversation that the Russia investigation is just a hoax. It's not like our Intel community is certain that Russia successfully fucked with our political process, while the man who benefited from said fuckery is adamant nothing happened, and even believes the Russians over our service members 

The piss dossier was opposition research and was the basis for the entire investigation getting started.  Then you had the average joe FBI agents do their job while others in the IC and a senile Senator with a brain tumor decided to leak information to the press. If it wasn't for Jake Tapper at CNN, the piss tape story would have never made it to the mainstream and you guys would have been doing something much more productive over the past 2 years other than furiously masturbating over political clickbait. 

[EMAWesome 101]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You kinda blew that edit, Ace.

You want to know how I can tell who here hasn't read the piece put out by Matt Taibbi yet?

[jimmyjazz 45915]

36 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

That would be the life expectancy for U.S. men who 

1.  Aren't obscenely wealthy and able to afford the best medical care in the world.

2.  Will not have Secret Service protection for the rest of their life

If you do not fall into categories one or two today your life expectancy tends toward Reagan, GHWB, and Carter.

 

Well, except for the fact that Reagan, GHWB, and Carter weren't morbidly obese.  You might want to ask some of the docs on here how much they can do for the fatasses who have money to burn and yet are in their final lap around the sun.

[bad_teammate 13195]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think we are way behind because European countries like Sweden, Finland, and Norway have been fighting this shit hard for years while we’ve been looking the other way.  Some of them have figured out how to successfully combat it and if we don’t start following their lead, it will be bad. It is already bad enough. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/01/why-is-finland-able-to-fend-off-putins-information-war/amp/

If you read your own article, you will see that the way that Finland is fighting it is by doing exactly what I'm talking about.

“The best way to respond is less by correcting the information, and more about having your own positive narrative and sticking to it,” Jed Willard, director of the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Center for Global Engagement at Harvard, told Foreign Policy.

Remove the negative conditions that make people desperate enough to believe in nonsense and they're less likely to believe the nonsense. Pay their teachers more and given them free college so they're better educated.

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, except for the fact that Reagan, GHWB, and Carter weren't morbidly obese.  You might want to ask some of the docs on here how much they can do for the fatasses who have money to burn and yet are in their final lap around the sun.

They probably weren't and aren't sustaining themselves on a menu of taco bowls, hamberders, and Diet Coke.

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

Odd Trump would do such things as put ships in the black sea, troops in Syria and fund Ukraine to fight against the russians if he was sucking off Putin.  Those would seem like things someone would do who did not care about what Russia thinks.

We put naval assets in the Black Sea in 2016.