The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Poolflood 845]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mueller testimony would be good enough for me.

Would love this.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I have zero doubt that there is information in there that needs to be redacted for both "ongoing investigation" purposes and national security purposes.  I might suspect that Mueller or his team could make quick work of the former, the latter would probably take some time with review from CIA, FBI, NSA, DIA and maybe others. And even with respect to the ongoing investigation material, the actual investigators (SD NY, etc.) might want/need to take a pass over it.

And, I don't think it's implausible that Barr and his minions were able to summarize and report on two issues basically from a very lengthy report that deals with dozens and dozens of issues, for example, all the indicted people, investigatory dead-ends and so on.  If his summary purported to be of the entire report, that would strain credibility.

It's very likely that Trump is implicated directly in other crimes in the report.  Bank fraud is in there for sure. That would give Barr reason to tailor his conclusion only to collusion and obstruction of justice for collusion. It would also give Barr reason to try to bury the report afterward. And reason to redact evidence of other crimes in their entirety if they are still being investigated. 

I don't see how there could be real national security implications. We know Trump is a corrupt businesman who does corrupt things, and we know what Russia did and is doing. If there is top secret info involved, it could only be there if Trump was trying to give it to Putin. He wasn't. So set aside the ongoing investigations and release it.  

Edited March 28, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[JimmyJames 12271]

54 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What puzzles me is why didn’t Mueller have a report for public/congressional consumption ready to go?  Maybe he did and we just don’t know about it.

He had to know the moment he turned in a report everyone would be breaking his door down for information. 

He was following the law and did accordingly. What people then do next is out of his control.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Did I hear correctly that Barr is now saying it's going to take weeks to get the report to congress because it is so substantial?  Yet he was able to write a summary in less than 48 hours? 

He knew the general conclusions weeks in advance. Very little leaked out. A little bit did.

 The first draft of his summary letter was written weeks ago, although probably on a non governmental computer somewhere. 

[Poolflood 845]

18 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It's very likely that Trump is implicated directly in other crimes in the report.  Bank fraud is in there for sure. That would give Barr reason to tailor his conclusion only to collusion and obstruction of justice for collusion. It would also give Barr reason to try to bury the report afterward. And reason to redact evidence of other crimes in their entirety if they are still being investigated. 

I don't see how there could be real national security implications. We know Trump is a corrupt businesman who does corrupt things, and we know what Russia did and is doing. If there is top secret info involved, it could only be there if Trump was trying to give it to Putin. He wasn't. So set aside the ongoing investigations and release it.  

I would be shocked if bank fraud is in the report.  That would have been turned over to SDNY and probably not in report.

Don't know if you're being disingenuous or think all has been revealed and in the public record on all Russian interventions and possible counter measures such that there couldn't be any national security implications to what is in the report.  In any event we should want all of the report released that would be legal and not compromising to national security.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Poolflood
World b free

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

6 minutes ago, Poolflood said:

I would be shocked if bank fraud is in the report.  That would have been turned over to SDNY and probably not in report.

Don't know if you're being disingenuous or think all has been revealed and in the public record on all Russian interventions and possible counter measures such that there couldn't be any national security implications to what is in the report.  In any event we should want all of the report released that would be legal and not compromising to national security.

Mueller charging Manafort with bank/tax fraud and money laundering makes it possible Trump gets hit with it but very unlikely it’s in the Mueller report unless it links directly to Russia and the evidence needs to be overwhelming. 

[Poolflood 845]

Meh.  Manafort charges were for leverage to get him to flip on conspiracy/collusion charges on Trump.  Mueller couldn't prove anything.  Maybe there's meat on the obstruction bone but I wouldn't count on it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, Poolflood said:

Meh.  Manafort charges were for leverage to get him to flip on conspiracy/collusion charges on Trump.  Mueller couldn't prove anything.  Maybe there's meat on the obstruction bone but I wouldn't count on it.

There’s meat on the obstruction bone but I seriously doubt it will amount to any consequences for Trump because Congress is spineless, on “both sides”.

[notre dame joe 172]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nah, just trying to correct the record since no one can define collusion. 

In business law, the example used to teach collusion is when two or more competing businesses secretly get together in a hotel room and hatch a plan to create an unfair advantage over their competition. 

The Don Jr/Manafort/Kushner “adoptions” meeting with the Agalarovs was about as close as it gets and from the emails, Don Jr was eager to collude.  The only thing missing is evidence of any kind of agreement and Trump’s knowledge of the meeting. 

I know the ship has completely sailed on this politically but I’m still like “holy shit I can’t believe they did that, kept it secret for over a year, and still tried to cover it up with the “adoptions” BS.”

 

Uranium 1 is way worse than even the accusations of Trump go. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

1 minute ago, notre dame joe said:

Uranium 1 is way worse than even the accusations of Trump go. 

Why don’t you lay out exactly what Uranium One is about, and explain how it is worse?   Because I don’t believe you know what you’re talking about.  

[williemackgarza 1826]

Anyone else find it odd that a Senator starts a tweet with BREAKING like he's an actual news source?

News source? Like thats some sorta high bar.

[Gil Bang 25898]

Uranium 1 is way worse than even the accusations of Trump go. 

Go fuck yourself you cunt

[Anastasis 23394]

24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 There’s meat on the obstruction bone but I seriously doubt it will amount to any consequences for Trump because Congress is spineless, on “both sides”.

There is political theater on the obstruction bone. That's about the sum of it. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

3 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Go fuck yourself you cunt

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

There is political theater on the obstruction bone. That's about the sum of it. 

True, Trump’s consequences will be political, I don’t know how much democrats are going to push on that wound, depends on the evidence. 

[Anastasis 23394]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

True, Trump’s consequences will be political, I don’t know how much democrats are going to push on that wound, depends on the evidence. 

We know that there is no impeachment pot at the end of the rainbow at this point. That much is clear.  The rest is just posturing and political nonsense. 

[williemackgarza 1826]

Democrats been calling trump a traitor and accusing him of colluding with russia since day one. They wanted so bad for mueller to call it a sham to prove hillary should have won the election. Bottom line, no matter what dems see it will not be enough, EVER.

Conservatives are the exact opposite.

Each side acting so holier than thou.
Thats america now.
Us vs them.

Its obvious trump cant tell the truth and is a sleazy business owner. Lots of business owners are... cheating a little on taxes, making financials look a little better than they should, running personal charges thru their business. Little white lies. Lots do it.
Lets be honest, almost all politicians line their pockets. Clintons, Bush family, life memebees of congress that end up multi millionaires after only gettin govt salaries.
Thats why to me this Trump shit is business as usual in DC politics.
All the media and pretty much everyone thought Trump was a clown with no chance. Hell most of Hollywood and entertainers loved the guy and he had a well watched show. NBC loved him. Conservatives were skeptical of him. Hillary demanded to know if trump would accept the outcome and the will of the people. That dumbass didnt even campaign in some states and didnt hold many press conferences. The DNC fed her debate questions. She was a terrible candidate but no one called her on her bullshit. Dems for good measure pit a final bullett in Trump with the steele dossier. Then all hell broke lose when saint hillary got beat.
Now the dems been crying for 2 years and the reps wont call Trump on his bullshit.
Like a weird spousal abuse cycle.

I know, TLDR.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

42 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Why don’t you lay out exactly what Uranium One is about, and explain how it is worse?   Because I don’t believe you know what you’re talking about.  

He has no idea what Uranium One is about, but Rush and Buck and Sean told him it was bad and HILLARY!!!1!111!

[jimmyjazz 45560]

2 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:

Democrats been calling trump a traitor and accusing him of colluding with russia since day one. They wanted so bad for mueller to call it a sham to prove hillary should have won the election. Bottom line, no matter what dems see it will not be enough, EVER.

Conservatives are the exact opposite.

Each side acting so holier than thou.
Thats america now.
Us vs them.

Its obvious trump cant tell the truth and is a sleazy business owner. Lots of business owners are... cheating a little on taxes, making financials look a little better than they should, running personal charges thru their business. Little white lies. Lots do it.
Lets be honest, almost all politicians line their pockets. Clintons, Bush family, life memebees of congress that end up multi millionaires after only gettin govt salaries.
Thats why to me this Trump shit is business as usual in DC politics.
All the media and pretty much everyone thought Trump was a clown with no chance. Hell most of Hollywood and entertainers loved the guy and he had a well watched show. NBC loved him. Conservatives were skeptical of him. Hillary demanded to know if trump would accept the outcome and the will of the people. That dumbass didnt even campaign in some states and didnt hold many press conferences. The DNC fed her debate questions. She was a terrible candidate but no one called her on her bullshit. Dems for good measure pit a final bullett in Trump with the steele dossier. Then all hell broke lose when saint hillary got beat.
Now the dems been crying for 2 years and the reps wont call Trump on his bullshit.
Like a weird spousal abuse cycle.

I know, TLDR.

 

It's almost as if you're not even paying attention.  I know, weird, right?  You, williemackgarza, surly's resident seer and philosopher, not paying attention?  Shit, THAT never happens.

[Mdhorn 5911]

“Imagine if the Starr Report had been provided only to President Clinton’s Attorney General, Janet Reno, who then read it privately and published a 4-page letter based on her private reading stating her conclusion that President Clinton committed no crimes,” Orin Kerr, a professor at the University of Southern California Gould School of Law, tweeted Tuesday evening.

 

I understand that they are two separate entities--Starr and Mueller.  Hillary had an 11 hour grilling that amounted to didley squat while the jackass POTUS had difficulty answering a write in request with the aid of lawyers.  No doubt in my mind that just one of the peripheral jailings on any Democrats watch would have lead to impeachment hearings if not worse.  

 

[EuroHorn 3204]

I’m waiting for this to all play out on Twitter 

[Anastasis 23394]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's almost as if you're not even paying attention.

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.

Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.

The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.

The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.

Just for those paying attention. 

 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.

Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.

The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.

The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.

Just for those paying attention. 

 

Anyone with a brain understands that if the shoe were on the other foot, the entire MSM complex would be even more outraged than they were about the Russia hoax, if Trump spies on his opponent in the next election. Neither side is good at morals, but the Dems are maybe a little worse because they truly believe that the ends justify the means. Trump can literally take oppo research and spy on his opponent, Dems can't say shit about it.

I mean, if Trump fucks an intern, Dems literally can't complain. I mean they will, but everyone will know they're a joke. Just like the Russia story. CNN can't drive their ratings down fast enough, it's a parody network now, it's basically The Onion.

Culture drives politics, and media culture drive media politics. They had a choice - accept humility or double down on the lie. They chose to double down. At this point, I frankly enjoy it. The facade is obvious to even the dumbest sheeple. So please please media, double down again. It's self a inflicted, nearly fatal, wound.

Am I not entertained? Why yes, mightily entertained. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[TornACL 7676]

The logical outcome is that Trump will feel even more emboldened, and will do something even more unscrupulous in the next election cycle. 

And even if the evidence is more damning, and obvious, it will get shouted down with "Here they go again!" 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.

Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.

The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.

The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.

Just for those paying attention. 

 

You were paying so much attention you left out a metric crapton of malfeasance known to have been promulgated by #theotherside, as opposed to the "maybe questionable" things alluded to in your little report.  Odd.  (Both sides, you know.)

[911isajoke 6]

28 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

I’m waiting for this to all play out on Twitter 

As in on Trump's Twitter feed, you ass crack! He puts all his crimes and craziness on blast there.

So you probably won't be voting for him.

Lying dumbfuck.

[911isajoke 6]

27 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.

Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.

The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.

The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.

Just for those paying attention. 

 

Change your avatar you drunk nihilist honkey.

[911isajoke 6]

1 hour ago, notre dame joe said:

Uranium 1 is way worse than even the accusations of Trump go. 

My God the Trumpian dumbshitness.

[Anastasis 23394]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You were paying so much attention you left out a metric crapton of malfeasance known to have been promulgated by #theotherside, as opposed to the "maybe questionable" things alluded to in your little report.  Odd.  (Both sides, you know.)

All the questionable things alluded to in my little report are have been conducted by the "intelligence" apparatus of this country. But hey, whats a few WMD hoaxes between friends.  

[Junior Miller 1502]

Can't wait until this country burns to the ground. What a shithole. Get it over with already and let's pay the fucking piper

Edited March 28, 2019 by Junior Miller

[Kyle 207]

1 hour ago, williemackgarza said:

Democrats been calling trump a traitor and accusing him of colluding with russia since day one. They wanted so bad for mueller to call it a sham to prove hillary should have won the election. Bottom line, no matter what dems see it will not be enough, EVER.

Conservatives are the exact opposite.

Each side acting so holier than thou.
Thats america now.
Us vs them.

Its obvious trump cant tell the truth and is a sleazy business owner. Lots of business owners are... cheating a little on taxes, making financials look a little better than they should, running personal charges thru their business. Little white lies. Lots do it.
Lets be honest, almost all politicians line their pockets. Clintons, Bush family, life memebees of congress that end up multi millionaires after only gettin govt salaries.
Thats why to me this Trump shit is business as usual in DC politics.
All the media and pretty much everyone thought Trump was a clown with no chance. Hell most of Hollywood and entertainers loved the guy and he had a well watched show. NBC loved him. Conservatives were skeptical of him. Hillary demanded to know if trump would accept the outcome and the will of the people. That dumbass didnt even campaign in some states and didnt hold many press conferences. The DNC fed her debate questions. She was a terrible candidate but no one called her on her bullshit. Dems for good measure pit a final bullett in Trump with the steele dossier. Then all hell broke lose when saint hillary got beat.
Now the dems been crying for 2 years and the reps wont call Trump on his bullshit.
Like a weird spousal abuse cycle.

I know, TLDR.

21,000 replies to a fake news story, and this is probably the only post that makes any rational sense.

[911isajoke 6]

Fake news story my ass.

Cover UP X A BILLION.

You're a rw Trump tard with a stupid suburban white boy name. 

[XingTheRubicon 134]

30 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.

Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.

The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.

The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.

Just for those paying attention. 

 

Unfortunately, you're wasting your time.

When it's all said and done, Obama's FBI spied on an "asset" to spy on Trump's campaign.  You can explain how it happened with the fake dossier, Carter Page, etc 'til you're blue in the face and when it just comes down to it...they don't care.  They're also too stupid and uninformed to get all the facts to even realize what's happened. 

Can't wait to hear their opinion on Trump spying on Beto or Bernie or whatever freeshitmonkey that's gonna get boat-raced in 2020 they put out there.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

It's very likely that Trump is implicated directly in other crimes in the report.  Bank fraud is in there for sure. That would give Barr reason to tailor his conclusion only to collusion and obstruction of justice for collusion. It would also give Barr reason to try to bury the report afterward. And reason to redact evidence of other crimes in their entirety if they are still being investigated. 

I don't see how there could be real national security implications. We know Trump is a corrupt businesman who does corrupt things, and we know what Russia did and is doing. If there is top secret info involved, it could only be there if Trump was trying to give it to Putin. He wasn't. So set aside the ongoing investigations and release it.  

Very likely? I mean your predictions about Trump and collusion were spot on.  

Did you happen to post as 13-0 Branding Iron on Texags some time ago?

[911isajoke 6]

3 minutes ago, Kyle said:

21,000 replies to a fake news story, and this is probably the only post that makes any rational sense.

Go ride your dirtbike around the suburbs, "Kyle". 

[911isajoke 6]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Very likely? I mean your predictions about Trump and collusion were spot on.  

Did you happen to post as 13-0 Branding Iron on Texags some time ago?

You're such a racist piece of shit.

[911isajoke 6]

RELEASE THE REPORT!

WHAT AN OBVIOUS AND PATHETIC COVER UP.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

21,000 replies to a fake news story, and this is probably the only post that makes any rational sense.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, 911isajoke said:

You're such a racist piece of shit.

You aren’t being very nice to me.  

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

It's very likely that Trump is implicated directly in other crimes in the report.  Bank fraud is in there for sure. That would give Barr reason to tailor his conclusion only to collusion and obstruction of justice for collusion. It would also give Barr reason to try to bury the report afterward. And reason to redact evidence of other crimes in their entirety if they are still being investigated. 

I don't see how there could be real national security implications. We know Trump is a corrupt businesman who does corrupt things, and we know what Russia did and is doing. If there is top secret info involved, it could only be there if Trump was trying to give it to Putin. He wasn't. So set aside the ongoing investigations and release it.  

Eh, maybe.  I'm certain Trump is indictable for bank fraud and money laundering for his activities prior to taking office.  Probably some bankruptcy and insurance fraud too.  I imagine limitations had expired on dozens of such crimes before he even entered the campaign.  But after the campaign started, where Mueller would be looking, I doubt he came across much and if he did, he probably ignored it as outside the actual contours of his mandate.

Inasmuch as the "Russian case" is almost entirely a product of counter-hacking and elint by DIA analysts or similar and I am sure there are other investigatory aspects involving surveillance of foreign governments/Russians and other foreigners and governments (Saudis, Yemenis, Ukrainians, Israelis), I am virtually certain the report at least touches on things that implicate intelligence operations and methods that those agencies do not want in the public domain.

I think the scope of the Manafort indictments really misled people as to what Mueller was after and what he would actually pursue, despite the breadth of the "arising under" portion of his jurisdiction.  There was some early indication that a big reason Mueller acted on it was that limitations was expiring on some of it.  And, the notion that Manafort would "flip."  Which he did, kinda sorta.

[triplehorn 2664]

Sounds like Mueller report is hundreds of pages, 700 just came up on msnbc.

  By comparison, the Starr report per WaPo:

”Starr and his team at the Office of the Independent Counsel sent a 453-page report (plus 2,000 pages of appendixes) to Congress”

[Kyle 207]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I do admire your commitment to crazy. Tell me more about how Stanley Kubrick filmed the "moon landing."

[jimmyjazz 45560]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

All the questionable things alluded to in my little report are have been conducted by the "intelligence" apparatus of this country. But hey, whats a few WMD hoaxes between friends.  

There is no proof that the Page FISA application was tainted, regardless of the hardon you have for gutting the intelligence community's power.

[911isajoke 6]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You aren’t being very nice to me.  

Go yell gay slurs at Jussie.

[911isajoke 6]

Just now, Kyle said:

I do admire your commitment to crazy. Tell me more about how Stanley Kubrick filmed the "moon landing."

You must admire Trump's commitment to CRAZY huh. So your sarcasm is fucking horseshit. 

Change your dumb name to Todd.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

In all seriousness, eliminate the Russians, who will never be tried. Then eliminate the ones convicted of perjury. I think you have some meat left on the bone. But you tarnish yourself by commingling the actual criminals with the goofballs. It's like getting bent out of shape about Jerome Corsi, it's a nothingburger.

Go with what you have, don't try to put lipstick on the pig. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[911isajoke 6]

Also eliminate Trump and then add Hillary and Obama and CNN and AOC and then it's a bengazzi burger again!

Fuck you, the report is substantial and damning or THEY'D RELEASE IT.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

Can't the mods IP ban this clown or something?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

29 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Very likely? I mean your predictions about Trump and collusion were spot on.  

Did you happen to post as 13-0 Branding Iron on Texags some time ago?

Yeah, what were my predictions, shit bag? They've consistently been that Trump will go down in NY State court after he is out of office. 

I'm thinking TX needs to start looking into you too. 

[911isajoke 6]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Can't the mods IP ban this clown or something?

Nope. I'm a hacker.