The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Nah, just elect more democrats 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,581]

What would that matter? If you're a Senator Constitution-bound to advise and consent or not to consent to an opposition presidential SC nominee, you just ignore the rules.

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

7 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You should propose that the rules be changed. Obviously it's not fair.

No one is saying it is or isn’t fair, even considering DJT likely fired the previous AG over his handling of the Russian investigation.

I noticed you didn’t address my other points, which taken together imo make clear that Barr is a political actor with potentially one goal, to minimize damage to DJT.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[EuroHorn 3,261]

It’s clear that Mueller and Barr are Russian operatives...   the plan is coming together...

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Beat you by 40 minutes.

If and how Barr opposes this will give you some actual fodder for conspiracy talk.

[David Dennison 18,854]

7 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

It’s clear that Mueller and Barr are Russian operatives...   the plan is coming together...

Fail.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

I am still at a loss at the trump and Barr and the sycophant Republican party’s long term strategy here. Shocker I know.

The report will come out. It’s just impossible to stop that. All this redaction and slow drip nonsense is just gonna make the impact of it that much greater when it does. 

And you are supposed to under promise and over deliver, not the other way around. Seems like trump Barr and the dipshit republicans haven’t figured that out with “Total Exoneration!”

The report is gonna be damning and even more so given Barr’s cliff notes version will be looked on as misleading at best. If it wasn’t damning they would have just released it already, at least to the dems with enough security clearance. They haven’t even done that. 

[lemonlime 5,503]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

I am still at a loss at the trump and Barr and the sycophant Republican party’s long term strategy here. Shocker I know.

The report will come out. It’s just impossible to stop that. All this redaction and slow drip nonsense is just gonna make the impact of it that much greater when it does. 

And you are supposed to under promise and over deliver, not the other way around. Seems like trump Barr and the dipshit republicans haven’t figured that out with “Total Exoneration!”

The report is gonna be damning and even more so given Barr’s cliff notes version will be looked on as misleading at best. If it wasn’t damning they would have just released it already, at least to the dems with enough security clearance. They haven’t even done that. 

Nope.  There's been slow drip nonsense for at least two years now.  and the trump base ignores the nonsense, or looks at each little tiny piece of the nonsense in isolation.  He misspoke in Helsinki.  The meeting was about adoptions.  He was joking about Russia hacking Hillary's emails.  They have absolutely no reason that another year or years of slow drip nonsense will at some point make any difference in public opinion.

The numbers are baked.  35-40% of the country supports trump no matter what.  We could have a pee tape released tomorrow of trump peeing on 12-year-old child prostitutes and it wouldn't move the needle.  

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

I am still at a loss at the trump and Barr and the sycophant Republican party’s long term strategy here. Shocker I know.

The report will come out. It’s just impossible to stop that. All this redaction and slow drip nonsense is just gonna make the impact of it that much greater when it does. 

And you are supposed to under promise and over deliver, not the other way around. Seems like trump Barr and the dipshit republicans haven’t figured that out with “Total Exoneration!”

The report is gonna be damning and even more so given Barr’s cliff notes version will be looked on as misleading at best. If it wasn’t damning they would have just released it already, at least to the dems with enough security clearance. They haven’t even done that. 

You realize that security clearance only addresses one of several categories of information to be redacted?

A security clearance doesn't give you access to grand jury information. A court order does.

A security clearance doesn't give you the right to know about people who were not indicted.  A court order might.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

12 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

It’s clear that Mueller and Barr are Russian operatives...   the plan is coming together...

Chrispy troll gave you a copy of the Mueller report? Well by all means please share with the group. He’s refused to share it with the rest of us so far. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

You realize that security clearance only addresses one of several categories of information to be redacted?

A security clearance doesn't give you access to grand jury information. A court order does.

A security clearance doesn't give you the right to know about people who were not indicted.  A court order might.

So redact everything in the mueller report that mentions trump? Gonna be a short report then.

 I admit I’m not a criminal lawyer so I’m not familiar with grand jury rules but I’m sure there are exceptions in certain situations and I would be willing to bet this one qualifies. 

[Captainant 27,655]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You realize that security clearance only addresses one of several categories of information to be redacted?

A security clearance doesn't give you access to grand jury information. A court order does.

A security clearance doesn't give you the right to know about people who were not indicted.  A court order might.

You are aware that there's a newly filed suit to grant access to grand jury material "cited, quoted, or referenced in the report of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III"?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Nope.  There's been slow drip nonsense for at least two years now.  and the trump base ignores the nonsense, or looks at each little tiny piece of the nonsense in isolation.  He misspoke in Helsinki.  The meeting was about adoptions.  He was joking about Russia hacking Hillary's emails.  They have absolutely no reason that another year or years of slow drip nonsense will at some point make any difference in public opinion.

The numbers are baked.  35-40% of the country supports trump no matter what.  We could have a pee tape released tomorrow of trump peeing on 12-year-old child prostitutes and it wouldn't move the needle.  

I don’t care what trump supporters want or care about. I just want to read the damn report for myself so I can make up my own mind.

If the trumpkins are gonna dismiss it as fake news, more power to them because like red said to the young fella with a job, “to tell you the truth, I don’t give a shit.”

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So redact everything in the mueller report that mentions trump? Gonna be a short report then.

 I admit I’m not a criminal lawyer so I’m not familiar with grand jury rules but I’m sure there are exceptions in certain situations and I would be willing to bet this one qualifies. 

Don't be fatuous Jimmy. 

Here's a case going over some of the issues in a different context, the court's decision to release Walsh's entire report, EXCEPT CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, in Iran Contra.  That report was generated under the past Independent Counsel law, which vested the court with the decision on disclosing the report and how much of it. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/16/1234/491871/

An interesting tidbit for you HUGO.  One of the exceptions to Fed. R. Crim. Pro 6 is use of grand jury material in another judicial proceeding.  That has apparently been held to include an impeachment.  But it may also require an active impeachment committee, as in the case of Watergate.  So this may push the House to establish one.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[JimmyJames 12,271]

And my point was independents minds can be changed. That’s a third of the country. And they decide elections. Fuck the Trumpkins. 

[lemonlime 5,503]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I don’t care what trump supporters want or care about. I just want to read the damn report for myself so I can make up my own mind.

If the trumpkins are gonna dismiss it as fake news, more power to them because like red said to the young fella with a job, “to tell you the truth, I don’t give a shit.”

I don't give a shit either.  But it's why trump and barr don't give a fuck about being caught lying about the slow drip of information.  They'll keep this going until 2024 or trump dies.  And then they can rail against the WITCH HUNT! HOAX!   While the other 60 % of the country just gets exhausted by this all.

[lemonlime 5,503]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't be fatuous Jimmy. 

Here's a case going over some of the issues in a different context, the court's decision to release Walsh's entire report, EXCEPT CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, in Iran Contra.  That report was generated under the past Independent Counsel law, which vested the court with the decision on disclosing the report and how much of it. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/16/1234/491871/

Wasn't this Barr's handywork also?

[Captainant 27,655]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't be fatuous Jimmy. 

Here's a case going over some of the issues in a different context, the court's decision to release Walsh's entire report, EXCEPT CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, in Iran Contra.  That report was generated under the past Independent Counsel law, which vested the court with the decision on disclosing the report and how much of it. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/16/1234/491871/

You realize that Barr was a pivotal ally for Ollie North and the other traitors?

Edited April 1, 2019 by Captainant

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I am still at a loss at the trump and Barr and the sycophant Republican party’s long term strategy here. Shocker I know.

The report will come out. It’s just impossible to stop that. All this redaction and slow drip nonsense is just gonna make the impact of it that much greater when it does. 

And you are supposed to under promise and over deliver, not the other way around. Seems like trump Barr and the dipshit republicans haven’t figured that out with “Total Exoneration!”

The report is gonna be damning and even more so given Barr’s cliff notes version will be looked on as misleading at best. If it wasn’t damning they would have just released it already, at least to the dems with enough security clearance. They haven’t even done that. 

They’re just trying to protect the base so when the facts come out they can be poo-poo’d away as the democrats trying to put their own spin on it too late in the game. 

It’s kinda like how they played the Dossier.  The Dossier was dead and gone six months after it came out.  The democrats weren’t pushing that conspiracy at all.  

It was the Republicans that resurrected the Dossier in the media and in Congress but they weren’t investigating for facts.  They were trying to put it all on the democrats as THEIR conspiracy narrative so when Barr put out his letter they could beat them over the head with it and call them all crackpot conspiracy theorists. 

Doesn't matter that much of the Dossier proved to be accurate, the overall thesis of a “well established conspiracy” didn’t prove criminally chargeable according to Barr’s letter.  Therefore, “complete nothingburger and we need to investigate the democrats for trying to bring down Trump”.

Never mind all the other indictments of Russians and Trump people that were mentioned in the Dossier.  All that matters is god emperor Trump. 

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

this thread is still going?  

you would think our citizens would be happy and relieved when there's full 2-year investigation led by Democrats concluding that no other interest fucked with our democracy and country on the level of collusion.

good lord, nothing happened. it's over. grow up. 

 

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't be fatuous Jimmy. 

Here's a case going over some of the issues in a different context, the court's decision to release Walsh's entire report, EXCEPT CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, in Iran Contra.  That report was generated under the past Independent Counsel law, which vested the court with the decision on disclosing the report and how much of it. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/16/1234/491871/

An interesting tidbit for you HUGO.  One of the exceptions to Fed. R. Crim. Pro 6 is use of grand jury material in another judicial proceeding.  That has apparently been held to include an impeachment.  But it may also require an active impeachment committee, as in the case of Watergate.  So this may push the House to establish one.

Wait a second. I thought you were arguing that grand jury secrecy prevents Barr from disclosing the entire report. The case you have linked directly refutes that. 

I pointed out that dems with security clearance should be able to review it. Then you point to grand jury proceedings in one post and in the next argue that only certain sensitive info can be withheld. Ya know, the kind of thing people with security clearance can see.  Huh? 

Maybe you could clarify what you’re arguing here because it’s not making any sense. 

[Captainant 27,655]

1 minute ago, Bash Riprock said:

this thread is still going?  

you would think our citizens would be happy and relieved when there's full 2-year investigation led by Democrats concluding that no other interest fucked with our democracy and country on the level of collusion.

good lord, nothing happened. it's over. grow up. 

First off, nice pussy neg-back on a fact-based post.

Secondly, wow, there's quite a few lies in this post.

Mueller investigation wasn't led by democrats.

The CIA and FBI have concluded that russia DID fuck with our democracy and country.

Trump's campaign manager, children, foreign policy advisers, and NSC (Flynn) have lied about meetings with and info shared with known russian agents and/or russian intel cutouts.

Some shit happened. It's not over. Lying and claiming "NO COLLUSION" over and over doesn't make it true

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

Trump Official accused of secretly working for US citizens

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

First off, nice pussy neg-back on a fact-based post.

Secondly, wow, there's quite a few lies in this post.

Mueller investigation wasn't led by democrats.

The CIA and FBI have concluded that russia DID fuck with our democracy and country.

Trump's campaign manager, children, foreign policy advisers, and NSC (Flynn) have lied about meetings with and info shared with known russian agents and/or russian intel cutouts.

Some shit happened. It's not over. Lying and claiming "NO COLLUSION" over and over doesn't make it true

lol

[Captainant 27,655]

Just now, Bash Riprock said:

lol

I mean, you're welcome to refute what I'm saying with evidence and facts if you care to. Or you can just type out three letters and neg posts like a bitchass

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

3 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Wasn't this Barr's handywork also?

As mentioned. when the IC law was in effect, the IC submitted the report to a panel of the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, who decided how much of the report to disclose.  Individuals mentioned in the report had the opportunity to protest full release.

So, no Barr didn't have anything to do with that.  Objectively, he recommended that Bush pardon Weinberger, McFarlane, and Abrams and a few of no-names, ostensibly to keep shit from splashing on Bush.  However, because a pardon would prevent any of them from asserting the 5th or other immunity, seems like that's kind of a hazy strategy.

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

Just now, Captainant said:

I mean, you're welcome to refute what I'm saying with evidence and facts if you care to. Or you can just type out three letters and neg posts like a bitchass

lolz

triggered

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You realize that Barr was a pivotal ally for Ollie North and the other traitors?

Goddamn, take your conspiracy hat off for one second, read the case, and you realize Barr had nothing to do with disclosing the Iran Contra report.

Fuck.

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Wait a second. I thought you were arguing that grand jury secrecy prevents Barr from disclosing the entire report. The case you have linked directly refutes that. 

I pointed out that dems with security clearance should be able to review it. Then you point to grand jury proceedings in one post and in the next argue that only certain sensitive info can be withheld. Ya know, the kind of thing people with security clearance can see.  Huh? 

Maybe you could clarify what you’re arguing here because it’s not making any sense. 

Absolutely not.  I have never argued that for a femtosecond.

I have just argued that all of Barr's moves and proposed moves are completely consistent with 28 CFR 600 and at least facially plausible.

If you dont understand what I'm arguing its because you havent kept up.

Jeezly crow.

[Red Five 40,853]

Person 1: (says a bunch of lies)
Person 2: “hey those were all lies.”
Person 1: “lol!! You’re so triggered!!”

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,581]

 

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Objectively, he recommended that Bush pardon Weinberger, McFarlane, and Abrams and a few of no-names, ostensibly to keep shit from splashing on Bush.  

Oh, that's all. Seems like an above the board guy.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[EMAWesome 101]

25 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I just want to read the damn report for myself so I can make up my own mind.

I

Like your mind isn't already made up.  I'm all for releasing it to the public but it's not going to make a damn bit of difference if it is.  It will still have redactions which means that both sides will claim the redacted parts make their case and even if it was unredacted both sides are going to spin and interpret it in a way that makes their case.  The only thing that will change is that both sides will think they know even more about what they are talking about than they do now and both sides will be wrong because nothing plus nothing still equals nothing.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,395]

18 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

 

you would think our citizens would be happy and relieved when there's full 2-year investigation led by Democrats 

 

 

 

Mueller is a Republican.

[retread 2,951]

But that's not what Rush said...

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

Like your mind isn't already made up.  I'm all for releasing it to the public but it's not going to make a damn bit of difference if it is.  It will still have redactions which means that both sides will claim the redacted parts make their case and even if it was unredacted both sides are going to spin and interpret it in a way that makes their case.  The only thing that will change is that both sides will think they know even more about what they are talking about than they do now and both sides will be wrong because nothing plus nothing still equals nothing.

When it comes to trump being an ammoral scumbag narcissist and the worst president in history by a very large margin, then yes, my mind is made up. 

When it comes to what mueller investigated though, my mind is not made up. Particularly since I haven’t read the report. 

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

46 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You are aware that there's a newly filed suit to grant access to grand jury material "cited, quoted, or referenced in the report of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III"?

Yes, I'm aware.  Ive only mentioned it twice on this page of this thread.

The fact that a suit was filed is not indicative of wrongdoing.  The nature of that suit is to try to prove exceptions to the general rule that grand jury testimony and related material is sacrosanct.

Also, I misread/misstated something, which was that the suit sought all grand jury material.  It doesn't,  Just that referenced in the report.  Which is gonna require a redacted copy of the report.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Can’t get over how doubting Barr’s integrity = conspiracy nut 

If the tables were turned and it was Lynch or Holder pulling this sentence fragment book report spin bullshit and then walking it back a few days later regarding an international criminal conspiracy Obama may or may not have obstructed, I’m sure everyone would be cool as a cucumber about it. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,581]

5 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

 The only thing that will change is that both sides will think they know even more about what they are talking about than they do now and both sides will be wrong because nothing plus nothing still equals nothing.

Left out Chewbacca.

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Can’t get over how doubting Barr’s integrity = conspiracy nut 

If the tables were turned and it was Lynch or Holder pulling this sentence fragment book report spin bullshit and then walking it back a few days later regarding an international criminal conspiracy Obama may or may not have obstructed, I’m sure everyone would cool as a cucumber about it. 

Well, if Lynch or Holder were following the rules laid out for them, there would be less ground for wild speculation about their integrity.

I have never ever once said that Barr isn't up to no good.  But you can't tell that from the way he has handled the report, per 28 CFR 600.  I'm sure the "summary" was self-serving, but if it is really at odds with what the report says, then he's going to get it crammed up his ass sideways.  Maybe he fucked up.  I don't know.  That was a lose-lose.  He could have said nothing other than we'll get you the redacted report by 4/15.  Imagine the speculation then.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[XingTheRubicon 134]

3 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Like your mind isn't already made up.  I'm all for releasing it to the public but it's not going to make a damn bit of difference if it is.  It will still have redactions which means that both sides will claim the redacted parts make their case and even if it was unredacted both sides are going to spin and interpret it in a way that makes their case.  The only thing that will change is that both sides will think they know even more about what they are talking about than they do now and both sides will be wrong because nothing plus nothing still equals nothing.

ZERO indictments on Trump is what hurts the most.  You have to understand libs have been told for 2 years that is was a slam dunk that Trump is going down.  Hell, when I watched MSNBC a few weeks before the report was released, even I thought Trump was going down.  But, then critical thinking started to sink in.   Let's see....is the billionaire real estate mogul that became president a Russian double-agent?  Ooooorrrr, are the most gullible people that God ever invented, letting their emotions get the best of them?  Hmmmm.  Tough choice.

[lemonlime 5,503]

Given that Barr was hired by a so called president whose sole qualification he asks for in candidates is loyalty to trump (and not the country), there's no reason to believe Barr was hired to do anything but quash the report.  Hell, trump fired his prior attorney general, not for the terrible things he did like child separation, a (poorly executed) Muslim ban,  or going after nonviolent pot offenders, but because Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation.  He fired the keebler elf because of the only ethical thing that said elf did as attorney general.  Why would his hand picked replacement get the benefit of the doubt?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,581]

3 minutes ago, XingTheRubicon said:

ZERO indictments on Trump is what hurts the most.  You have to understand libs have been told for 2 years that is was a slam dunk that Trump is going down.  Hell, when I watched MSNBC a few weeks before the report was released, even I thought Trump was going down.  But, then critical thinking started to sink in.   Let's see....is the billionaire real estate mogul that became president a Russian double-agent?  Ooooorrrr, are the most gullible people that God ever invented, letting their emotions get the best of them?  Hmmmm.  Tough choice.

Check out the critical thinking on Brad.

[Gil Bang 25,944]

3 minutes ago, XingTheRubicon said:

ZERO indictments on Trump is what hurts the most.  You have to understand libs have been told for 2 years that is was a slam dunk that Trump is going down.  Hell, when I watched MSNBC a few weeks before the report was released, even I thought Trump was going down.  But, then critical thinking started to sink in.   Let's see....is the billionaire real estate mogul that became president a Russian double-agent?  Ooooorrrr, are the most gullible people that God ever invented, letting their emotions get the best of them?  Hmmmm.  Tough choice.

Anybody with a clue new fucking A well that Trump wouldn't be indicted. 

And the jury's still out on whether he's "going down".   It's quite possible that he will be impeached.  Depends on what the report says.  

[Captainant 27,655]

TFW trump can't be indicted due to DOJ policy, and has appointed underlings on the basis of their loyalty to his administration. It's like it's a hollow defense of trump to say that "he hasn't been indicted yet!!one!!!!eleven!!" or something

[TwiceHorn 31,451]

5 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Anybody with a clue new fucking A well that Trump wouldn't be indicted. 

And the jury's still out on whether he's "going down".   It's quite possible that he will be impeached.  Depends on what the report says.  

The House will need to grow a pair first.  It may actually behoove them to form an impeachment committee in order to invoke the "judicial proceeding" exception to Rule 6.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27,655]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

The House will need to grow a pair first.

The house will need the unredacted report that Mueller wrote in order to conduct constitutionally specified oversight. They're currently subpoenaing it. And trump's army of flathead supporters are fighting it tooth and nail

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Hugo speculation:

If the democrats wanted to impeach Trump, they would have started the process months ago, there’s enough material there.  

They went with “we have to wait for Mueller” so they could sit on their hands and ride Trump out until 2020 to hopefully crush him in the election.   

Now they have to wait for Barr which shouldn’t be part of the deal but whatever.

It’s another advantage by delaying the Mueller Report release, the impeachment process clock is rapidly running out of time. 

[Gil Bang 25,944]

Not exactly.

Trump's gonna have a hard time running a campaign if he's defending himself at an impeachment.  

[EuroHorn 3,261]

Well this doesn’t look good...

 

Spoiler

 

April Fools!! 

except for the part about what’s in the pic not looking good...

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by EuroHorn