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Posted
  On 4/21/2019 at 9:18 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm sorry, say wut ?  Mr. Obama said more times than you can count I inherited the bad (fill in the blank) from the last administration, President Bush , the Bush admin.  Were you asleep the first 4 years of his presidency ??  His first four years was the blame game.

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Barack Obama is going to go down in history as one of the country's better presidents, bookended by two of the worst.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:21 AM, David Dennison said:

That is not true and every lawyer on this board will tell you the same.

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Ok, I’m not a lawyer. Let’s see if I can restate in a way that makes sense. 

There was insufficient evidence to establish “that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government”.

Does that work for you?

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:29 AM, GRHorn said:

Ok, I’m not a lawyer. Let’s see if I can restate in a way that makes sense. 

There was insufficient evidence to establish “that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government”.

Does that work for you?

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Again, that does not mean there was no evidence that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. Mueller went out of his way to make that point very clear.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:33 AM, David Dennison said:

Again, that does not mean there was no evidence that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. Mueller went out of his way to make that point very clear.

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I know it doesn’t mean there was no evidence, it means there was an insufficient amount of it. 

Posted (edited)
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:43 AM, David Dennison said:

That's an extraordinary thing to say about the president of the United States.

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Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.

At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

Edited by GRHorn
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Posted
  On 4/20/2019 at 3:21 AM, suddenly shaggy said:

It's hard to take your posts seriously without a shitty meme or complaint about Twitter. 

I'll post your favorite for you to get us back on track. 

satan.png?w=780&zoom=2

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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing Jesus he wanted Hillary Clinton to win the presidency.

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Posted

Just checking in... 

Given Rudy's comments on the Russian involvement today, we're at the 'even if it did happen, it's not wrong' phase, right? 

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:37 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Best president of the 21st century so far and it's not remotely close. 

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I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:47 AM, GRHorn said:

Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.

At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

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That's why they're going to focus on the overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:58 AM, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

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He's a hard guy to dislike. As opposed to... well, you know. 

Posted

Can somebody list some of these times when Obama blamed Bush?  I keep reading things like "Mr. Obama said more times than you can count I inherited the bad (fill in the blank) from the last administration, President Bush , the Bush admin.  Were you asleep the first 4 years of his presidency ??  His first four years was the blame game."

Please list some of these. I just googled it and couldn't find very much, other than conservative dog-and-pony sites in which the claim is made that Obama blamed Bush every day of his administration.  

Please, Onboard et al ... let's see these countless times that Obama blamed Bush. 

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:47 AM, GRHorn said:
Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.
At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

I just finished reading the report and what you say is false. The concept of “collusion” is not considered in the investigation. Rather, the evidence is evaluated within the framework of conspiracy law.

You don’t get to condescend when you start off with a false statement.
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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:03 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

It's probably worth a reminder that all the living former presidents get along with each other and none of them have any respect for Trump. That was true when the elder Bush was alive too. 

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It's amazing to me that the GOP aren't the ones racing towards impeachment. You have to figure it would be ridiculously easy for Pubs to distance themselves from Donald if he was impeached, and they obviously hate his ass. If it wasnt for the "party over everything" mantra that they are hammering, they could ditch his ass, and put up a legit Republican candidate. 

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:09 AM, Doc Sam Beckett said:

 

It's amazing to me that the GOP aren't the ones racing towards impeachment. You have to figure it would be ridiculously easy for Pubs to distance themselves from Donald if he was impeached, and they obviously hate his ass. If it wasnt for the "party over everything" mantra that they are hammering, they could ditch his ass, and put up a legit Republican candidate. 

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It's a combination of being in on the conspiracy (Russia --> NRA -- $$$) as well as trying to outlast RBG and get the SCOTUS locked down for good.  That's all it is.  Straight up criminal anti-American behavior.

This will not end in a peaceful manner, I'm pretty much convinced.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:58 AM, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

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Dubya was a useful idiot. It's one more example of the many ways his presidency foreshadowed Trump's. Trump just turned everything up to 11. But Dubya isn't innocent. He's a war criminal. Yeah, he was in over his head. In other words he was completely unqualified for the job. Trump is even less qualified. But one's incompetence shouldn't excuse one from the consequences of their misdeeds. 

Posted (edited)
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:40 AM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Jan 20, 2001 is the 21st century.

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Lol...that's so weak. What did Bill accomplish in the last less-than-three-weeks of his presidency?

Too bad he couldn't convince his successor that radical Islamic terrorism really was the greatest threat to America. At least he tried. 

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:03 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

It's probably worth a reminder that all the living former presidents get along with each other and none of them have any respect for Trump. That was true when the elder Bush was alive too. 

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You mean the 2 war criminal Bushes and Clinton who embody the DC swamp creatures that Trump vowed to eradicate which the base wholeheartedly supports. I think that’s a fair trade off in his eyes. Trump should be thanked for sparing us from a low energy Jeb! Presidency.

Posted (edited)
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:28 AM, David Dennison said:

Barack Obama is going to go down in history as one of the country's better presidents, bookended by two of the worst.

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Obamacare cost the middle class thousands of dollars more in premiums, deductibles and co-pays to cover lower class people’s health care. A direct subsidy to the poors  would’ve been better for the middle class, whose interests should be primary in crafting legislation and not the poors. Fuck John McCain for sabotaging Obamacare repeal.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:54 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Lol...that's so weak. What did Bill accomplish in the last less-than-three-weeks of his presidency?

Too bad he couldn't convince his successor that radical Islamic terrorism really was the greatest threat to America. At least he tried. 

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Then you should have said best president elected in the 21st century instead of just "best president of the 21st century". 

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 9:20 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

I stand by what I said. You're just being silly. 

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Yes, I am being silly.  But I am right and you are wrong.  Sorry.

Was Bill Clinton president in the 21st century?  Yes
Was Bill Clinton better than GWB, Obama and Trump?  Yes
Ergo Bill Clinton was the best president in the 21st century.

QED.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 9:30 AM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yes, I am being silly.  But I am right and you are wrong.  Sorry.

Was Bill Clinton president in the 21st century?  Yes
Was Bill Clinton better than GWB, Obama and Trump?  Yes
Ergo Bill Clinton was the best president in the 21st century.

QED.

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You're nitpicking over an irrelevant technicality. What legislation did Bill pass during those final days in office?

You're aware that the 21st century started on January 1, 2001, right?

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 4:22 AM, Iconoclast Texan said:

You mean the 2 war criminal Bushes and Clinton who embody the DC swamp creatures that Trump vowed to eradicate which the base wholeheartedly supports. I think that’s a fair trade off in his eyes. Trump should be thanked for sparing us from a low energy Jeb! Presidency.

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This draining of the swamp you speak of, when is it supposed to happen?  I’d consider adding someone like DeVos to a cabinet position, who has no business running the Dept. or Education, as making the water a little murkier. 

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:10 PM, CowboyFred said:

This draining of the swamp you speak of, when is it supposed to happen?  I’d consider adding someone like DeVos to a cabinet position, who has no business running the Dept. or Education, as making the water a little murkier. 

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Why stop at Devos? Rick Perry. Wilbur Ross. Ben Carson. Mulvaney. Herman Cain. Stephen Moore. Javanka. Anyone who thought a real estate developer/tv personality would drain the swamp is an idiot. Anyone who still thinks trump is draining the swamp watches Fox News

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:16 PM, GW Hayduke said:

Why stop at Devos? Rick Perry. Wilbur Ross. Ben Carson. Mulvaney. Herman Cain. Stephen Moore. Javanka. Anyone who thought a real estate developer/tv personality would drain the swamp is an idiot. Anyone who still thinks trump is draining the swamp watches Fox News

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Correct, the swamp people are rooted firmly. The huge gov't bureaucracy is the real swamp.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:09 AM, Bozo_Casanova said:


I just finished reading the report and what you say is false. The concept of “collusion” is not considered in the investigation. Rather, the evidence is evaluated within the framework of conspiracy law.

You don’t get to condescend when you start off with a false statement.

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I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

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Posted

Can our rankings include international body count and government civil liberties abuses? Bush clearly "wins" when those attributes are included in the mix, but it might help draw distinctions between Obama and Clinton in the ratings. 

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:01 PM, GRHorn said:

I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

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You called it "collusion" because that's the terminology Trump and the GOP used to shape the narrative.  

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 1:18 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Correct, the swamp people are rooted firmly. The huge gov't bureaucracy is the real swamp.

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This is just so dumb. How are people at the Social Security Administration trying to make sure the checks get out on time or people at the EPA trying to make sure the air isn't poison the real problem?

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 3:26 PM, DDD Dad said:

You called it "collusion" because that's the terminology Trump and the GOP used to shape the narrative.  

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What?  That’s the term people on all sides have been using for 2 years. 

Would you feel better if they said “no conspiracy”?  Because Mueller didn’t establish that either. 

Posted

The more I think about the opening to Vol II, the more I wonder why that section was written at all.  It starts with saying a sitting president can't be indicted, then says that even sealed indictments for use afterward are too far because they'd inevitably leak.  Importantly, he then says even a prosecutor's internal report that isn't a formal public accusation of a crime, the possibility of public disclosure says you shouldn't do it.  All this in service to separation of powers and recognition that the president has a job to do that could be hindered by the 'stigma and opprobrium' of having an accusation of a crime hanging over him.

The distinction between that and what he has written in Vol II, which is 'these are all the facts that show a pattern of obstruction, but i'm not going to actually say obstruction, but also, if there was any evidence that this wasn't obstruction, i'd let you know' seems vanishingly small.  It's like a magic words scenario, where so long as Mueller doesn't use the phrase "I think DJT committed this crime" he can say whatever he wants.

Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 2:01 PM, GRHorn said:

I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

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"Collusion" may not be a crime but if a private political candidate was actually colluding with a foreign government then they would have to commit all sorts of white collar crimes ala Al Capone to pull it off. 

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Posted
  On 4/22/2019 at 3:37 PM, GRHorn said:

What?  That’s the term people on all sides have been using for 2 years. 

Would you feel better if they said “no conspiracy”?  Because Mueller didn’t establish that either. 

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But he did find evidence of it. It's in the report. You should read it.



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