The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Longhorn94 2448]

its simple. trump and co tried to play the russians in order to get his Moscow Tower while running for president. the russians played Trump start to finish. 

if trump was any other campaign, they would have notified the FBI about all the Russian contacts and the Russians attempt to play them. But they didnt because Trump thought he could outplay the Russians and get his Moscow Tower out of it. He put our Nation in jeopardy so he could get a fucking building built in Russia. He lost/won. It will end up costing him everything when all is said and done and he will deserve every bit of it. Meanwhile, his supporters are too stupid or tribal to see he actually did outplay them.

[elguapo 4586]

Yes it is true that Trump, currently the most powerful man in the world, is a morally bankrupt narcissistic delusional con man who is very likely compromised financially/personally by the Russians. But the real story we should be focusing on here is how deep state individuals in the IC tried to sound the alarm about how shitty Trump is so that he wouldn't become the most powerful man in the world.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, elguapo said:

Yes it is true that Trump, currently the most powerful man in the world, is a morally bankrupt narcissistic delusional con man who is very likely compromised financially/personally by the Russians. But the real story we should be focusing on here is how deep state individuals in the IC tried to sound the alarm about how shitty Trump is so that he wouldn't become the most powerful man in the world.

But look what they did to poor mr Carter Page PhD!!!?!

[Longhorn94 2448]

FISA ABUSE! DEEP STATE! BOTH SIDES!!!!

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Longhorn94 said:

its simple. trump and co tried to play the russians in order to get his Moscow Tower while running for president. the russians played Trump start to finish. 

if trump was any other campaign, they would have notified the FBI about all the Russian contacts and the Russians attempt to play them. But they didnt because Trump thought he could outplay the Russians and get his Moscow Tower out of it. He put our Nation in jeopardy so he could get a fucking building built in Russia. He lost/won. It will end up costing him everything when all is said and done and he will deserve every bit of it. Meanwhile, his supporters are too stupid or tribal to see he actually did outplay them.

I think this assessment has merit. On the scat site I suggested that the right political play when the Russian reached out to Jr. offering dirt was to go immediately to the FBI, work in cooperation, and then turn right around when the timing was right and issue a press release to the effect of "In response to media inquiries, the Trump campaign can confirm that it is fully cooperating with the FBI regarding a national security threat involving materials related to Secretary Clinton. The campaign continues to cooperate fully with the FBI to ensure that this security threat is contained. In light of the ongoing nature of the investigation we will not comment further. MAGA." That would have probably played through October. But to your point, narcissism.

 

Oh, and I didn't see an angle to work the first verse in, which kind of disrupts the symmetry I was working towards. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You ever consider how much impact Paul Manafort had on the 2016 election?  You know, since he was sending targeted polling data and battleground messaging strategy to Russian intelligence? 

[Captainant 27661]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You ever consider how much impact Paul Manafort had on the 2016 election?  You know, since he was sending targeted polling data and battleground messaging strategy to Russian intelligence? 

It's not like Manafort has a track record of doing the exact same shit in Ukraine or anything, right?

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You ever consider how much impact Paul Manafort had on the 2016 election?  You know, since he was sending targeted polling data and battleground messaging strategy to Russian intelligence? 

man, when you type out like that it sounds an awful lot like...

 

 

collusion?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

man, when you type out like that it sounds an awful lot like...

 

 

collusion?

Mueller explains in his report he came up short on the criminal conspiracy case because he couldn’t prove what the Russians did with the data Manafort gave them.  Mostly due to the Russians being beyond his reach of questioning and subpoenas. 

Even if the data and messaging the Russians were using matched up with what Manafort was feeding them it could plausibly be explained away as just an unrelated coincidence.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[JimmyJames 12271]

Someone in here, not gonna say who, really doesn’t understand how warrants work and is apparently operating on some sort of assumption that they are hard to get. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mueller explains in his report he came up short on the criminal conspiracy case because he couldn’t prove what the Russians did with the data Manafort gave them.  Mostly due to the Russians being beyond his reach of questioning and subpoenas. 

Even if the data and messaging the Russians were using matched up with what Manafort was feeding them it could plausibly be explained away as just an unrelated coincidence.

Moreover, Mueller explains that Trump’s obstructy behavior (dangling pardons, telling Manafort to stay strong, Manafort being treated unfairly) may have influenced Manafort’s decision not to be fully cooperative.  

Basically, Trump might have successfully obstructed justice in the Manafort criminal conspiracy case with the Russians, if there was one.  We aren’t sure because Trump and Manafort both obstructed justice. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You ever consider how much impact Paul Manafort had on the 2016 election?  You know, since he was sending targeted polling data and battleground messaging strategy to Russian intelligence? 

To me this is the key. Manafort kept lying to the feds even after his plea deal for a reason.

And he wasn’t sharing polling data to brag to someone he had access to trump or to help him with his creditors except to the extent that info has value to them. That is a completely lame bullshit reason, He was the fucking campaign manager, what more is there left to prove. 

To me, he was obviously conspiring with the Russians, giving them internal data to help them target key states with their IRA operations and more importantly, key demographics in certain states. Mueller just couldn’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and Manafort won’t cop to it, probably because he’s hoping for a pardon. Which if trump gives it to him will reveal that trump knew about it, at least in my eyes. 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Mueller explains in his report he came up short on the criminal conspiracy case because he couldn’t prove what the Russians did with the data Manafort gave them.  Mostly due to the Russians being beyond his reach of questioning and subpoenas. 
Even if the data and messaging the Russians were using matched up with what Manafort was feeding them it could plausibly be explained away as just an unrelated coincidence.

Mueller also cites obstruction in the form of lying and destruction of evidence as reasons why he could not find conclusive evidence on criminal conspiracy.

Destruction of evidence and refusing to cooperate with legal instructions are hallmarks of Trump’s legal strategy. Without consequences, he will never cooperate with an adversary. http:// https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

27 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

To me this is the key. Manafort kept lying to the feds even after his plea deal for a reason.

And he wasn’t sharing polling data to brag to someone he had access to trump or to help him with his creditors except to the extent that info has value to them. That is a completely lame bullshit reason, He was the fucking campaign manager, what more is there left to prove. 

To me, he was obviously conspiring with the Russians, giving them internal data to help them target key states with their IRA operations and more importantly, key demographics in certain states. Mueller just couldn’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and Manafort won’t cop to it, probably because he’s hoping for a pardon. Which if trump gives it to him will reveal that trump knew about it, at least in my eyes. 

It seems to me Mueller was looking to prove criminal conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence on two fronts.

1.  Manafort/Gates—>Kilimnik/Deripaska—>Internet Research Agency 

2.  Roger Stone—>Guiccfer2.0/Julian Assange/Wikileaks—>GRU 

It looks like he got really close on both but couldn’t make a compelling enough case.

There’s no doubt in my mind Manafort and Stone had knowledge of the Russian interference at the times they were coordinating with Russians on campaign related issues.  

How much Trump knew is unknown but based on how he handled the Don Jr Trump Tower meeting, he probably went out of his way to know as little as possible.

ETA: A takeaway from the Mueller Report is Trump is a professional criminal that knows how to sidestep legal land mines by throwing other people under the bus and giving himself plenty of plausible deniability breathing room to keep operating. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I mean think about it, what better way to win the presidency as a complete outsider than to hire a team of career international criminals to run your campaign.  

[notre dame joe 187]

9 hours ago, horncyclist said:

The private companies will be the ones shutting it down. And I've yet to see evidence any social media company has targeted conservatives. To the contrary, Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw: has long been dominated by right wing perspectives.

The free market theory evaporates when said market is run by a cartel with just a few players.  Last time I checked FB and Google were said to have @90% of the online market.

9 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

What material from the FBI's investigation of the Trump campaign was leaked by Hillary?

Comey for one was leaking FBI stuff.  Some are arguing that he was scheming to get a special counsel appointed just right after the election.  But not just him, the other deep staters were in on the backup plan too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Makes you wonder what kind of sales pitch Manafort gave Trump to hire him over Cory Lewandowski.   Trump didn’t hire Manafort just because he was willing to work for free.  Trump probably hired Manafort because he offered something no one else could as a campaign manager. 

[wildcat09 29354]

4 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

The free market theory evaporates when said market is run by a cartel with just a few players.  Last time I checked FB and Google were said to have @90% of the online market.

Comey for one was leaking FBI stuff.  Some are arguing that he was scheming to get a special counsel appointed just right after the election.  But not just him, the other deep staters were in on the backup plan too. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Real galaxy level brain shit, here.

[Foosters 17856]

What does 90% of "the online market" look like?

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Makes you wonder what kind of sales pitch Manafort gave Trump to hire him over Cory Lewandowski.   Trump didn’t hire Manafort just because he was willing to work for free.  Trump probably hired Manafort because he offered something no one else could as a campaign manager. 

Yeah he did offer something. A plausible path to victory. I bet Trump himself didn’t really believe it, but its clear Manafort did. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

17 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah he did offer something. A plausible path to victory. I bet Trump himself didn’t really believe it, but its clear Manafort did. 

My theory is Manafort has something on Trump to implicate him.  I don’t know what that is or the possible crime but it’s likely something that took place just prior to Manafort being hired and they both decide not to directly communicate with each other during the campaign.  This same kind of communications strategy was also deployed with Roger Stone to an extent. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Dolemite 143]

Trumpee Trumpee Trumpee (uh-huh) can't you see (uh)
Sometimes your words just hypnotize me (hypnotize)
And I just love your flashy ways (uh-huh)
Guess that's why they broke, and you're so paid (hah)

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

That’s just plain stupid 

[Dolemite 143]

Lol, I know and you're a pos for the neg.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Dolemite

[Thetexashammer 1062]

4 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Everyone knew the Steele reports were raw intelligence, which are just rumors from unverified sources. It was intended to point federal investigators and investigative journalists in various directions to investigate and corroborate. That is what it did.

Much of the Steele reports has turned out accurate:

 

 

 

I eliminated all the things from your list that weren't true or were wholly irrelevant. This is what you're left with. That's just a huge logic fail. "Russia conducted cyber operations" so Trump colluded doesn't make sense. I bet China did too, so I guess Trump colluded with China? Pretty sure Israel did as well. Also a Trump co-colluder?

And I really don't think the first one is true but you could provide some data on that. I'm interested in why Putin is "cultivating a relationship" with an American reality TV host who had never been in politics. Here's some of Matt Taibbi's hot take on the hoax.

Quote

He didn’t just “fail to establish” evidence of crime. His report is full of incredibly damning passages, like one about Russian officialdom’s efforts to reach the Trump campaign after the election: “They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.”

Not only was there no “collusion,” the two camps didn’t even have each others’ phone numbers!

In March of 2017, in one of the first of what would become a mountain of mafia-hierarchy-style “Trump-Russia contacts” graphics in major newspapers, the Washington Post described an email Trump lawyer Michael Cohen sent to Kremlin press secretary Dmitry Peskov. They called it “the most direct interaction yet of a top Trump aide and a senior member of Putin’s government.”

The report shows the whole episode was a joke. In order to further the Trump Tower project-that-never-was, Cohen literally cold-emailed the Kremlin. More than that, he entered the email incorrectly, so the letter initially didn’t even arrive. When he finally fixed the mistake, Peskov didn’t answer back.

That was “the most direct interaction yet of a top Trump aide and a senior member of Putin’s government”!

.....

There was no blackmail, no secret bribe from Rosneft, no five-year cultivation plan, no evidence of any kind of any relationship that ever existed between the Trump campaign and Russian officials. Michael Cohen “never traveled to Prague.”

The whole Steele dossier appears to have been bunk, with even Bob Woodward now saying the “highly questionable” document “needs to be investigated.” The Times similarly is reporting, two-plus years late, that “people familiar” with Steele’s work began to have “misgivings about [the report’s] reliability arose not long after the document became public.”

Reporters are going to insist all they did was accurately report the developments of a real investigation. They didn’t imply vast criminality that wasn’t there, or hoodwink audiences into thinking a Watergate-style ending was just around the corner, or routinely blow meaningless episodes like the Sessions-Kislyak meeting out of proportion, or regularly smear people who not only weren’t part of a conspiracy but had no connection to anything (see here for an example).

They’ll also claim they didn’t spend years openly rooting for indictment and impeachment via wish-casted predictions disguised as reporting and commentary, or denouncing people who doubted the conspiracy as spies and Putin apologists, or clearing their broadcast panels and op-ed pages of skeptics while giving big stages to craven conspiracy-spinners like Malcolm Nance and Luke Harding.

.....

This fiasco will surely end up being a net plus for Trump. The obstruction parts of the report make him look like a brainless goon and thug, but the absence of what Mueller repeatedly calls “underlying crime” make his ravings about an elitist mob out to get him look justified. This is not an easy thing to achieve, but we’re there, and the press is a big part of that picture.

 

 

News audiences were betrayed, and sooner or later, even the most virulently Trump-despising demographics will realize it and tune us out. The only way to reverse the damage is to own how big of a screw-up this was, but after the last three years, who would hold their breath waiting for that?

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[Thetexashammer 1062]

4 hours ago, elguapo said:

Yes it is true that Trump, currently the most powerful man in the world, is a morally bankrupt narcissistic delusional con man who is very likely compromised financially/personally by the Russians. But the real story we should be focusing on here is how deep state individuals in the IC tried to sound the alarm about how shitty Trump is so that he wouldn't become the most powerful man in the world.

When the CIA does this in Iran, it may or may not work out. When they do it domestically, it's called a coup d'etat and it's a crime.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Only 487 more pages. WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!

[David Dennison 18856]

39 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

When the CIA does this in Iran, it may or may not work out. When they do it domestically, it's called a coup d'etat and it's a crime.

If only someone was in a position of power to do something about it.

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

Lol, I know and you're a pos for the neg.

It deserved it

[Poolflood 845]

On 4/24/2019 at 7:57 PM, David Dennison said:

What's the word for obstruction of justice?

Late to the game.  I'll go with "Bleachbit".

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 hours ago, Poolflood said:

Late to the game.  I'll go with "Bleachbit".

Haha. One could say "deleting emails after they were subpoenaed" or "taking hammers to hard drives". But facts don't do well round these parts.

[Anastasis 23469]

Gonna go level 2 guys.

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Anastasis

[TornACL 7698]

5 hours ago, Dolemite said:

Trumpee Trumpee Trumpee (uh-huh) can't you see (uh)
Sometimes your words just hypnotize me (hypnotize)
And I just love your flashy ways (uh-huh)
Guess that's why they broke, and you're so paid (hah)

So you read that, and not only found it funny, but you found it funny enough to copy and paste to share with us? 

Oookay. 

 

[Patron 230]

Judge Andrew Napolitano goes in dry.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1121552006785716224 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Patron

[TexEx15 17515]

You know I have noticed a trend.  A lot of the dipshits on this thread taking a victory lap in regards to the report, that while did not result in direct charges did reveal a lot of shit this POTUS has done or tried to do, are conspicuously absent from the Trump thread.  Where is the defense of him and the drivel he spews daily?

Its almost like they are more concerned with their “team” winning than America winning.  Bigly sad!

[retread 2951]

6 hours ago, Patron said:

Judge Andrew Napolitano goes in dry.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1121552006785716224 

Quote

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1
 
Fox News judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano: "When the president asked Corey Lewandowski ... to get Mueller fired, that's obstruction of justice. When the president asked his then-White House counsel to get Mueller fired & then lie about it, that's obstruction of justice."

 

[BradInATX 9208]

You know I have noticed a trend.  A lot of the dipshits on this thread taking a victory lap in regards to the report, that while did not result in direct charges did reveal a lot of shit this POTUS has done or tried to do, are conspicuously absent from the Trump thread.  Where is the defense of him and the drivel he spews daily?
Its almost like they are more concerned with their “team” winning than America winning.  Bigly sad!

I think you're being unfair. They've made it very clear that while they support him 100%, they do it with extremely furrowed brows.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Maria Butina to be sentenced this morning.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Here we go with the questions surrounding Rosenstein 

Rod J. Rosenstein, again, was in danger of losing his job. The New York Times had just reported that — in the heated days after James B. Comey was fired as FBI director — the deputy attorney general had suggested wearing a wire to surreptitiously record President Trump. Now Trump, traveling in New York, was on the phone, eager for an explanation.

Rosenstein — who, by one account, had gotten teary-eyed just before the call in a meeting with Trump’s chief of staff — sought to defuse the volatile situation and assure the president he was on his team, according to people familiar with matter. He criticized the Times report, published in late September, and blamed it on former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe, whose recollections formed its basis. Then he talked about special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and told the president he would make sure Trump was treated fairly, people familiar with the conversation said.

“I give the investigation credibility,” Rosenstein said, in the words of one administration official offering their own characterization of the call. “I can land the plane.”

The episode illustrates the political tightrope Rosenstein has had to walk in his two years as the Justice Department’s second-in-command. To keep his job, the deputy attorney general has worked to mollify an often angry Trump, while at the same time protecting the special counsel’s investigation of the president and his campaign. Rosenstein’s actions have come under renewed scrutiny, as he has played a key role in releasing Mueller’s findings in a way even some of his supporters say has been overly favorable to Trump.

In a statement for this article, Rosenstein said: “The only commitment I made to President Trump about the Russia investigation is the same commitment I made to the Congress: so long as I was in charge, it would be conducted appropriately and as expeditiously as possible. Everyone who actually participated in the investigation knows that.”

[jimmyjazz 45920]

I think a lot of people don't realize how badly the average DC "professional" needs to keep their job.  Rosenstein makes about $210K per year.  That's not typically the type of salary one would associate with the ability to sustain long periods of unemployment.  Barring impressive savings and investments, these people are generally going to fight hard to stay employed.  We're not talking about Rex Tillerson here.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Every single person who works under trump is constantly put in a position of jeopardy, often legal, almost always ethically compromising. Goes with the territory. Rosenstein is no exception. 

The solution is never work for trump, no matter the upside. The downside has far too much risk. 

[notre dame joe 187]

7 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

You know I have noticed a trend.  A lot of the dipshits on this thread taking a victory lap in regards to the report, that while did not result in direct charges did reveal a lot of shit this POTUS has done or tried to do, are conspicuously absent from the Trump thread.  Where is the defense of him and the drivel he spews daily?

Its almost like they are more concerned with their “team” winning than America winning.  Bigly sad!

 

Have you read the latest biography of your avatar?  or maybe just an interview with the author?

 

edit: or do you have me on ignore?

 

edit2: Rosenstein gets the iron throne.

Edited April 26, 2019 by notre dame joe

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I think a lot of people don't realize how badly the average DC "professional" needs to keep their job.  Rosenstein makes about $210K per year.  That's not typically the type of salary one would associate with the ability to sustain long periods of unemployment.  Barring impressive savings and investments, these people are generally going to fight hard to stay employed.  We're not talking about Rex Tillerson here.

Rosenstein was in an awful position.  Literally the one person between Trump and Mueller with everything on the line.  

It’s no excuse though if Rosenstein ended up playing fixer for Trump.  I’m not saying that’s what happened but this looks like another example of Republicans successfully working the refs to avoid accountability. 

[TexEx15 17515]

5 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

 

Have you read the latest biography of your avatar?  or maybe just an interview with the author?

 

edit: or do you have me on ignore?

 

edit2: Rosenstein gets the iron throne.

Avatar relates to grad school not some personal reverence on the man.  Also your comment seems irrelevant to the comment on which you replied.

[Biff Tannen 45681]

24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rosenstein was in an awful position.  Literally the one person between Trump and Mueller with everything on the line.  

It’s no excuse though if Rosenstein ended up playing fixer for Trump.  I’m not saying that’s what happened but this looks like another example of Republicans successfully working the refs to avoid accountability. 

Quote

Rosenstein — who, by one account, had gotten teary-eyed just before the call in a meeting with Trump’s chief of staff — sought to defuse the volatile situation and assure the president he was on his team, according to people familiar with matter

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Biff Tannen

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Before we throw Rosenstein under the bus, put yourself in his position.  If he doesn’t thread the needle perfectly, the Mueller investigation would have likely been completely compromised.  This is all because Trump is a fucking criminal pos boss.  

Rosenstein needs to testify in public ASAP and he could be the real whistleblower John Dean of Stupid Watergate because his firsthand perspective of Trump’s obstruction of justice wasn’t detailed much in the Mueller Report.  He can provide a lot of new information.  

He no longer has a job or investigation to protect.  He might be a team trump player or he might have just been saying he was because that’s what Trump needed to hear at the time.  I think we should give him an opportunity to explain himself.

[Biff Tannen 45681]

[notre dame joe 187]

35 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Avatar relates to grad school not some personal reverence on the man.  Also your comment seems irrelevant to the comment on which you replied.

So do you like Texas's own LBJ or not?

[ChiTownDoc 21153]

9 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

So do you like Texas's own LBJ or not?

Oh a ND fan...do you like diddling lil boys?

[TexEx15 17515]

23 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

So do you like Texas's own LBJ or not?

First, LBJ was before my time.  LBJ has some pretty significant legislative accomplishments.  And like other presidents he had issues as well namely Vietnam.  I would take him over Trump if that’s what you are angling for.