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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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bolverk

bolverk 29660

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6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that counterintelligence by the FBI targeting US politicians and associated individuals, especially given the history of the FBI,  is highly fraught. I think that if such activities are conducted, they need to be able to withstand a very close level of scrutiny.  I look forward to seeing what comes of that scrutiny by the OIG. My thoughts on the matter are generally well known here.  And unlike most of the other conspiracy lunatics that have used this thread to propagate nonsense, I will be happy to take my medicine and admit that I was wrong if the OIG report demonstrates that my concerns are totally unfounded. I don't bat perfect, but I got a pretty good average over the course of this thread.

Lunatics? There you go gaslighting again.

The Mueller Report makes clear that Trump wanted Kremlin help, asked for Kremlin help, got Kremlin help, and knew he was getting Kremlin help. It also describes a situation in which Trump's campaign may have actually conspired but a) were too stupid to coordinate and b) destroyed evidence of communications which could've shown that maybe they weren't. Moreover, Trump's behavior since then, including interfering with the investigation, does not fit the description of an innocent man. 

Yes, we know your response: narcissistic personality disorder.

Also, it's fleshing out, not flushing out.

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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EastTexan

EastTexan 662

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Lunatics? There you go gaslighting again.

The Mueller Report makes clear that Trump wanted Kremlin help, asked for Kremlin help, got Kremlin help, and knew he was getting Kremlin help. It also describes a situation in which Trump's campaign may have actually conspired but a) were too stupid to coordinate and b) destroyed evidence of communications which could've shown that maybe they weren't. Moreover, Trump's behavior since then, including interfering with the investigation, does not fit the description of an innocent man. 

Yes, we know your response: narcissistic personality disorder.

Also, it's fleshing out, not flushing out.

"Lunatics". Sounds appropriate as used.

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4058

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10 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Moreover, Trump's behavior since then, including interfering with the investigation, does not fit the description of an innocent man. 

I have not put a whole lot of stock in this issue in the grand scheme of things. What the administration has been doing just in Venezuela alone is far worse than the very worst of what he’s been accused in this whole Russia scenario.

That having been said, the quoted passage is correct. There’s little doubt that his behavior since the investigation has been highly suspect and should make even the simplest of minds dubious of his innocence.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

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42 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

I have not put a whole lot of stock in this issue in the grand scheme of things. What the administration has been doing just in Venezuela alone is far worse than the very worst of what he’s been accused in this whole Russia scenario.

That having been said, the quoted passage is correct. There’s little doubt that his behavior since the investigation has been highly suspect and should make even the simplest of minds dubious of his innocence.

Fuck Venezuela. Trump is an existential threat to American democracy. Venezuela can fall into the ocean as far as I'm concerned. Trump is doing damage to my country!

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Lunatics? There you go gaslighting again.

I know, president hatch by easter 2020. Prague! Spectrum Health servers. /strokes out

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Also, it's fleshing out, not flushing out.

imgur

 

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

 

 

https://grammarist.com/usage/flesh-out-flush-out/

 

Flesh out vs. flush out

To flesh out is to give substance to something. The idiom flush out (originally from hunting) means to bring something out in the open.

 

 

 

Examples

Flesh out

 
 

President Barack Obama will today attempt to flesh out his energy strategy with the unveiling of a major new incentive scheme designed to improve the energy efficiency of commercial buildings. [Business Green]

The prequel, which aims to flesh out Sam Axe’s backstory, is set in late 2005. [TV Squad]

Some of these poets and communities were hard to find because they didn’t have fleshed out websites or buildings with addresses in the phone book. [Chicago Tribune]

Flush out

Omaha police are hoping for help from the public to flush out a thief who has been stealing brass from public restrooms. [KETV Omaha]

A drive in the forest to try and flush out “Bigfoot” will be held Saturday, Feb. 12. [Montgomery Herald (article now offline)]

Jynx flushed Connor out and bit him as he opened fire with an AK-47. [Reading Eagle]

Edited by Anastasis
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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, EastTexan said:

"Lunatics". Sounds appropriate as used.

 

59 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I know, president hatch by easter 2020. Prague! Spectrum Health servers. /strokesout 

This place is quite the hive mind. Once it gets rolling, watch out.  

How many armored divisions will it take to remove Emperor Trump when he loses the election?  Hopefully Louise Mensch, alongside the Marshal of the Supreme Court, will be able to neutralize Putin’s efforts to coronate Trump. 

But for real, since the Mueller Report dropped I’ve double checked my initial instincts against places like National Review. They almost uniformly despise Trump and actively worked against him. They also value the process and Constitutional order above just about everything else. While they said there were obviously embarrassing details, for the most part there has been none of the mass hysteria present here. I think they are a good litmus test for how regular people view this whole situation.

Flame away. 

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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

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Posted
18 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Funny, this is exactly what the Russians say about it while they celebrate the most successful Intelligence operation in their history.

Me and Robert Mueller are the crazy ones now. 

An anemic online campaign that included roughly 35K social media posts=most successful intelligence operation in their history?  I know most on the left here want to think this persuaded gullible people online to change their votes to the Trump over Hillary, but I find that hard to believe.  

Music....how does one face it?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

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Posted
16 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

An anemic online campaign that included roughly 35K social media posts=most successful intelligence operation in their history?  I know most on the left here want to think this persuaded gullible people online to change their votes to the Trump over Hillary, but I find that hard to believe.  

Music....how does one face it?

When you ad in sharing and retweeting and liking and forwarding and all of the other bullshit that goes along with social media, yes. 

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elguapo

elguapo 4586

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that counterintelligence by the FBI targeting US politicians and associated individuals, especially given the history of the FBI,  is highly fraught. I think that if such activities are conducted, they need to be able to withstand a very close level of scrutiny.  I look forward to seeing what comes of that scrutiny by the OIG. My thoughts on the matter are generally well known here.  And unlike most of the other conspiracy lunatics that have used this thread to propagate nonsense, I will be happy to take my medicine and admit that I was wrong if the OIG report demonstrates that my concerns are totally unfounded. I don't bat perfect, but I got a pretty good average over the course of this thread.

There's one glaring problem with your cute little theory that the FISA process was abused to spy on Trump, which is that Trump is the POTUS and if this happened he would have blown the lid off of it a long time ago.

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395

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Posted
2 hours ago, Born to Run said:


The look of someone who made a rather poor Faustian bargain.


It sounds ghoulish but back in the day they used to photograph dead people standing up, propped up etc... often with other living family members in the photo, so that they would have a memento of the dead person.  Maybe Melania actually passed away during one of her procedures and they're just rolling out the well-preserved, Lenin-esque corpse. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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Posted
1 minute ago, elguapo said:

There's one glaring problem with your cute little theory that the FISA process was abused to spy on Trump, which is that Trump is the POTUS and if this happened he would have blown the lid off of it a long time ago.

I actually agree with this angle and reasoning to a large extent. Let's see what the OIG report says. 

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

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Didn’t Devin Nunez and Trey Gowdy super tag team the Carter Page PhD FISA application when the GOP had the House and then compose the dreaded “Nunez Memo,” which almost instantly led to destruction of the FISA process, jailing of a bunch of FISA judges, and then termination of the entire FBI? Or am I misremembering and everyone actually laughed at the Nunez Memo? 

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2721

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11 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Please tell us how Dotard has been tougher on Russia and I'll tell you half a dozen ways he hasn't been, beginning with lifting sanctions and the Magnitsky Act.  And show your work.

https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/trump-administration-lifts-sanctions-on-firms-tied-to-deripaska/ or choose Time, NBC, CBS, Reuters, whatever--most wrote about it.  

CNN on Anti-Tank weapons to Ukraine 

Increased spending on European Deterrence Initiative Read the amounts, not just the headline

Proxy battles in Syria against Russia vs. Putin taking a dump on Obama's 'redline'

Sanctions against Oligarchs/Russia Timeline of all beginning in 2014

Closed consulates and expelled Russian Intelligence officers (in above link)

I know that you'll probably disregard the above or attack the sources or say it is not enough because it does not align with your worldview and your deeply and strongly held belief about Trump but there you go.  I'm sure there are stories of the opposite nature.  Like most things, the actual answer is probably somewhere in the middle.  

 

Also, as it relates to the hotel in Moscow, I have no doubt he was planning on getting one built there....right up until he won the election.  Seems to me that he was 100% convinced he was going to lose, along with everyone else on the planet, and he was preparing for things post election.  Then he won.  

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Can you imagine how upset people like American Swindle would be if Russia meddled in an election that a Democrat won while openly soliciting their interference, then refused to even admit that they interfered. Can you imagine the flag-draped outrage if Obama took Russia's side over our very own FBI?

You can't talk to these people. Their entire belief system is built on ignorance and cognitive dissonance. There is no intellectual honesty. Everything is horrible until my side does it. Stop trying. You are never going to get an honest and open debate from them. They revel in their own intellectual filth. They wear it with pride.

Edited by BradInATX
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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Didn’t Devin Nunez and Trey Gowdy super tag team the Carter Page PhD FISA application when the GOP had the House and then compose the dreaded “Nunez Memo,” which almost instantly led to destruction of the FISA process, jailing of a bunch of FISA judges, and then termination of the entire FBI? Or am I misremembering and everyone actually laughed at the Nunez Memo? 

They had a super sweet 48 hour run when the White House only declassified one page. Then it all came crashing down when the rest of the application was declassified. Remember that was when Nunes and his people got super mad because the warrant only said some of the info was from Trump's "political opponent" and did not specify "the Clinton campaign", how is a federal judge supposed to know Trump was running against Clinton in 2016, we can't expect too much out of these judges. 

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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

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32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Can you imagine how upset people like American Swindle would be if Russia meddled in an election that a Democrat won while openly soliciting their interference, then refused to even admit that they interfered. Can you imagine the flag-draped outrage if Obama took Russia's side over our very own FBI?

You can't talk to these people. Their entire belief system is built on ignorance and cognitive dissonance. There is no intellectual honesty. Everything is horrible until my side does it. Stop trying. You are never going to get an honest and open debate from them. They revel in their own intellectual filth. They wear it with pride.

Didn't a hot microphone pick up President Obama telling Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the election?  Is it a bad thing?  I don't think it was, because part of my "intellectual filth" is for diplomacy, even with country's we don't see eye-to-eye with.  

 

I was critical of the outlandish claim that it was some grand 007 operation when it was just a bunch of wonky social media posts.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/russian-ads-facebook-targeting/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d6b04f03b625

https://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/facebook-russia-fake-posts-trump-election-clinton-20171006.html

 

Hell, I actually agree with the 2A meme from the Philly link.  Were their not other social media posts from Pro-Hillary supporters that were equally wonky?  Is it your position we should censor this information because some people are too naive and we need a government regulatory agency to protect them from disinformation?  Do you think this could lead to the government censoring groups that are actually reliable and sound in their investigations and facts?  Slippery slope gonna be slippery.  

And I wouldn't be upset in your scenario Brad.  Talking down to me like your some cult leader and I'm a follower of yours is rich.  "They revel in their own intellectual filth" really makes me lol....

 

 

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retread

retread 2951

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Posted

wut?

Quote

Sanders said that the two leaders discussed whether the administration would allow former White House counsel Don McGahn to testify before Congress as Democrats ramp up their oversight investigations into the administration. McGahn was a key witness in one of the 10 episodes of potential obstruction of justice by Trump Mueller outlined in the report.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-putin-discussed-mueller-report-agreed-no-collusion-white-house-n1001706

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Posted
2 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Didn't a hot microphone pick up President Obama telling Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the election?  Is it a bad thing?  I don't think it was,

Hell, I actually agree with the 2A meme from the Philly link.  Were their not other social media posts from Pro-Hillary supporters that were equally wonky?  Is it your position we should censor this information because some people are too naive and we need a government regulatory agency to protect them from disinformation?  Do you think this could lead to the government censoring groups that are actually reliable and sound in their investigations and facts?  Slippery slope gonna be slippery.  

And I wouldn't be upset in your scenario Brad.  Talking down to me like your some cult leader and I'm a follower of yours is rich.  "They revel in their own intellectual filth" really makes me lol....

 

 

"Didn't a hot microphone pick up President Obama telling Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the election?  Is it a bad thing?  I don't think it was,"

Nobody believes you.

"Were their not other social media posts from Pro-Hillary supporters"

But Hillary - a perfect example of the Applebee's, lowest common denominator intellectual dreck I'm talking about.

"And I wouldn't be upset in your scenario Brad. "

Nobody believes you. Not even you.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17533

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Didn't a hot microphone pick up President Obama telling Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the election?  Is it a bad thing?  I don't think it was, because part of my "intellectual filth" is for diplomacy, even with country's we don't see eye-to-eye with.  

 

I was critical of the outlandish claim that it was some grand 007 operation when it was just a bunch of wonky social media posts.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/russian-ads-facebook-targeting/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d6b04f03b625

https://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/facebook-russia-fake-posts-trump-election-clinton-20171006.html

 

Hell, I actually agree with the 2A meme from the Philly link.  Were their not other social media posts from Pro-Hillary supporters that were equally wonky?  Is it your position we should censor this information because some people are too naive and we need a government regulatory agency to protect them from disinformation?  Do you think this could lead to the government censoring groups that are actually reliable and sound in their investigations and facts?  Slippery slope gonna be slippery.  

And I wouldn't be upset in your scenario Brad.  Talking down to me like your some cult leader and I'm a follower of yours is rich.  "They revel in their own intellectual filth" really makes me lol....

 

 

Pretty big distinction between the President doing something in his role as President and a candidate doing something who is not currently president. Also, pretty big distinction from a President working with a foreign power on behalf of the US government and a candidate working with a foreign power on his own behalf to help his campaign. Not surprised you don't realize that. 

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, retread said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-putin-discussed-mueller-report-agreed-no-collusion-white-house-n1001706

"CORRECTION (May 3,2019, 1:51 p.m. ET): An earlier version of this article incorrectly included one topic that White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Presidents Trump and Putin discussed on Friday. They did not discuss the possibility of former White House counsel Don McGahn appearing before Congress. Sanders was answering a question from reporters about whether McGahn would testify before Congress."

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, retread said:

"CORRECTION (May 3,2019, 1:51 p.m. ET): An earlier version of this article incorrectly included one topic that White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Presidents Trump and Putin discussed on Friday. They did not discuss the possibility of former White House counsel Don McGahn appearing before Congress. Sanders was answering a question from reporters about whether McGahn would testify before Congress."

That’s a pretty big error, but speaks to our times that it’s also totally believable 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45898

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, retread said:

"CORRECTION (May 3,2019, 1:51 p.m. ET): An earlier version of this article incorrectly included one topic that White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Presidents Trump and Putin discussed on Friday. They did not discuss the possibility of former White House counsel Don McGahn appearing before Congress. Sanders was answering a question from reporters about whether McGahn would testify before Congress."

Image result for ron burgundy i don't believe you

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Trump is also siding with putin against his generals and secdef, saying that russia isn't fucking with Venezuela. What a fucking putz.

I really think this is more of Putin trolling us through Trump.  It’s just another “in your face haha fuck you America” from Putin.

Imagine if Obama got off the phone with Putin and told the world, “Putin isn’t interested in Ukraine and those little green men invading across the border aren’t Russians.  I know this because Putin told me and I believe him.”

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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