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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Russia pulled off this massive military intelligence operation on our election and ZERO elected officials are calling for anything like the Patriot Act 2 or increased surveillance.  

That seems remarkable in itself.  Whatever surveillance the IC had obviously wasn’t good enough to protect us from what the Kremlin was doing.  

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

You'll get no argument from me nor the vast majority of liberals/progressives regarding the broader concerns about the surveillance state.

And yet you/they are curiously silent on relevant issues in play.

Every single paragraph of your post has deflection built right in.

 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

 Sure, Democrats were exposed as unbelievably spineless in a one-time vote over the Patriot Act/FISA courts out of fear of being labeled "anti-American" by bloodthirsty conservatives who were eager to label any of us opposed to the war, but the surveillance state was the end result of a decades' long assault on civil liberties by the conservatives in this country.

It was not a one-time emotive post 9/11 vote, the democrats led by Pelosi rallied the reauthorization against opposition from within the libertarian wing of the GOP.

https://www.cato.org/blog/house-votes-reauthorize-fisa-section-702-mass-surveillance-program

Two months of drama in the House of Representatives over the soon-to-expire FISA Section 702 mass surveillance program came to an end this morning, with a bipartisan group of House members first defeating a FISA reform amendment (USA RIGHTS Act) offered by Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI), then passing the GOP House leadership bill. The key votes in support of the GOP House leadership effort came from Democrats, including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Adam Schiff (D-CA).

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

 Do they align themselves more with conservatives because they're more concerned with owning shit that liberals might take away (money and guns) than they are about the civil liberties that liberals have traditionally fought to preserve (privacy and freedom of speech)?

 

This is so fucking condescending and stupid that it deserves no serious response. 

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

 It should be no surprise that the traditionally conservative federal law enforcement (FBI) and foreign surveillance (CIA) agencies may have cut corners (still unproven at this point), but the gall of placing the blame of those sins on anti-Trump liberals, who are now trying to right the ship of state with rules created by the conservatives, is especially ironic considering those same libertarians have consistently supported at the ballot box the Republican Party that is primarily to blame for tearing down the protections of the 4th amendment and other civil protections whose losses they are now trying to lay blame on liberals and Never-Trumpers in the fight against this imbecilic orange cancer.

There is nothing logically consistent to respond to here. This is gibberish.   

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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22 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Personally I think we should all recognize that when it comes to the net and many many other forms of modern communication, there really is no privacy, and therefore unless specific laws are passed to try to keep some semblance of privacy, there is also really no “surveillance state” on the net, or on many other current modern day mediums of communication.  The government is just doing what google has done since it was formed. 

 

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F250

F250 29180

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54 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You'll get no argument from me nor the vast majority of liberals/progressives regarding the broader concerns about the surveillance state. What confounds me, however, is the way in which libertarians tend to side with conservatives and against liberals in the voting booth. Yeah, they'll pay lip service to civil liberties when it suits them but when it comes down to the brass tacks of choosing a Democrat or a Republican with no other choice in the voting booth, they inevitably default to Republican.

I suspect that some libertarians that side with Republicans on economic issues do so out of a support for negative rights. That's something many libertarians and liberals will never have in common. It's basically a carryover of Nozick vs. Rawls disagreement.

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Sure, Democrats were exposed as unbelievably spineless in a one-time vote over the Patriot Act/FISA courts out of fear of being labeled "anti-American" by bloodthirsty conservatives who were eager to label any of us opposed to the war, but the surveillance state was the end result of a decades' long assault on civil liberties by the conservatives in this country.

If you think this was a one time thing then you haven't been paying attention. There was the Patriot Act, then the reauthorizations of the Patriot Act, there was CISA, shit, last year there was bipartisan support for FISA as well as a smaller bipartisan opposition made up of people like Amash and Bernie. On these issues is where you tend to see agreement between libertarians and the left and Centrist Democrats usually side with Republicans.

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

now trying to lay blame on liberals and Never-Trumpers in the fight against this imbecilic orange cancer. 

I am not sure if you noticed but many of the never-Trumpers were aligned with the Dubya administration and are neoconservatives. They were ousted as soon as the Bannon populist movement assumed control of the GOP. I don't like Trumpism but I am not going to lose sleep over Bill Kristol and the rest of his ilk being put out to pasture. Those people are completely worthy of scorn for the shit that went down during the Dubya administration.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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4 minutes ago, F250 said:

If you think this was a one time thing then you haven't been paying attention. There was the Patriot Act, then the reauthorizations of the Patriot Act, there was CISA, shit, last year there was bipartisan support for FISA as well as a smaller bipartisan opposition made up of people like Amash and Bernie. On these issues is where you tend to see agreement between libertarians and the left and Centrist Democrats usually side with Republicans.

Careful.  You will be labelled a #bothsides trumpkin if you keep this up. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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Just now, Captainant said:

Aw, anastasia not liking his own medicine? Most be annoying to deal with bad-faith, intellectually dishonest responses, huh?

Oh so sad still chasing delusions. Deflecting intellectual inadequacies to others. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46990

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I find it hilarious that the single most condescending person on surly is accusing others of condescension, not to mention wingnuttery, inasmuch as he is also the single most over-the-top wingnut around here as well.  #bothsides #fool #herewego

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I find it hilarious that the single most condescending person on surly is accusing others of condescension, not to mention wingnuttery, inasmuch as he is also the single most over-the-top wingnut around here as well.  #bothsides #fool #herewego

 

Yeah, we got people here still pimping, unchecked, debunked server conspiracies. But the guy who sees and comments on potential abuses of the surveillance apparatus, following a long pattern and history of such abuse by all the three letter agencies, is the wingnut. #totallynormalbrain #rememberwhenliberals

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46990

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14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

Yeah, we got people here still pimping, unchecked, debunked server conspiracies. But the guy who sees and comments on potential abuses of the surveillance apparatus, following a long pattern and history of such abuse by all the three letter agencies, is the wingnut. #totallynormalbrain #rememberwhenliberals

In my opinion, most people who tend towards a libertarian perspective are fucking wingnuts.  You included.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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14 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Mueller to make a statement today at 11am EST

 

I'd like to announce my new book, Mueller on Trump. Look for hardcovers at your local retailer or on Amazon in July. Only $29.95, but if you preorder today, it's yours for $19.95.  No questions. It's all in my book.  Read and decide.  Thank you. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In my opinion, most people who tend towards a libertarian perspective are fucking wingnuts.  You included.

Most people do tend towards a libertarian perspective.  That an attempt to use judicial constraint when interpreting the constitution.  Both the constitution and the Declaration of Independent hold liberty as a core principal.

 

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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Just now, tantric superman said:

Most people do tend towards a libertarian perspective.  That an attempt to use judicial constraint when interpreting the constitution.  Both the constitution and the Declaration of Independent hold liberty as a core principal.

 

Holy shit I finally agree with you. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29567

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11 hours ago, bolverk said:

You'll get no argument from me nor the vast majority of liberals/progressives regarding the broader concerns about the surveillance state. What confounds me, however, is the way in which libertarians tend to side with conservatives and against liberals in the voting booth. Yeah, they'll pay lip service to civil liberties when it suits them but when it comes down to the brass tacks of choosing a Democrat or a Republican with no other choice in the voting booth, they inevitably default to Republican.

Sure, Democrats were exposed as unbelievably spineless in a one-time vote over the Patriot Act/FISA courts out of fear of being labeled "anti-American" by bloodthirsty conservatives who were eager to label any of us opposed to the war, but the surveillance state was the end result of a decades' long assault on civil liberties by the conservatives in this country.

Do they align themselves more with conservatives because they're more concerned with owning shit that liberals might take away (money and guns) than they are about the civil liberties that liberals have traditionally fought to preserve (privacy and freedom of speech)?

It should be no surprise that the traditionally conservative federal law enforcement (FBI) and foreign surveillance (CIA) agencies may have cut corners (still unproven at this point), but the gall of placing the blame of those sins on anti-Trump liberals, who are now trying to right the ship of state with rules created by the conservatives, is especially ironic considering those same libertarians have consistently supported at the ballot box the Republican Party that is primarily to blame for tearing down the protections of the 4th amendment and other civil protections whose losses they are now trying to lay blame on liberals and Never-Trumpers in the fight against this imbecilic orange cancer.

No, you see, the FBI members that tried to get MLK to commit suicide were actually liberals and that's why liberals are actually worse than fascists on civil liberties.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23704

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Just now, wildcat09 said:

No, you see, the FBI members that tried to get MLK to commit suicide were actually liberals and that's why liberals are actually worse than fascists on civil liberties.

How dare you question the long and prestigious apolitical history of the FBI.

 

 

 

 

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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Just now, Anastasis said:

How dare you question the long and prestigious apolitical history of the FBI.

Alphabet agencies are a "necessary evil" acting outside of the rule law and political oversight. Just bend over, spread your cheeks, and repeat "patriots in the intelligence agencies".

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