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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

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If Nancy can't rally her base today she needs to step down as Speaker. Unfortunately because she has dragged her feet for so long this is as hot as their iron is going to get. The framework is there, she really needs to move forward with articles of impeachment.

And as stated above, if she chooses not to, I don't want to hear any more about impeachment and I want someone else to lead the democratic party going into the 2020 election cycle.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45695

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1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

Given a House impeachment without Senate conviction (almost assured because complicit GOP), delaying the impeachment process will maximize the electoral impact.  

It sucks that that's where we are, but I get it.

We've been over this.  You don't have to vote to impeach right now, but you do have to open the inquiry.  Stretch it out as long as you need to not let the Senate not convict.  But she's not doing that.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Just now, Irwin F Fletcher said:

If Nancy can't rally her base today she needs to step down as Speaker. Unfortunately because she has dragged her feet for so long this is as hot as their iron is going to get. The framework is there, she really needs to move forward with articles of impeachment.

And as stated above, if she chooses not to, I don't want to hear any more about impeachment and I want someone else to lead the democratic party going into the 2020 election cycle.

Nancy has been throwing cold water on her base at every opportunity.  Dragging her feet is her strategy. 

She’s as complicit as the rest of them. 

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deech

deech 2291

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I agree.  If the point of today was to help educate America about what was in the report, then that is done.  It's time to vote to impeach or not.   Shit or get off the pot.  Do your constitutional duty or the Democrats will hopefully find someone who will do their duty.

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21207

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2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

We've been over this.  You don't have to vote to impeach right now, but you do have to open the inquiry.  Stretch it out as long as you need to not let the Senate not convict.  But she's not doing that.

Exactly.  I'm amazed at how spineless the Dems are.  Leaderless and spineless.  

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retread

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

We've been over this.  You don't have to vote to impeach right now, but you do have to open the inquiry.  Stretch it out as long as you need to not let the Senate not convict.  But she's not doing that.

It probably won't make sense to voters if you start impeachment hearings 6 months from now. The Mueller report will be 500 miles back in the rear view mirror. Nobody is going to pay attention to court battles to try to get McGahn et al to appear before Congress.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105180

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1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Exactly.  I'm amazed at how spineless the Dems are.  Leaderless and spineless.  

This.  When folks say "both parties are the same," if they are referring to the "gutless coward" aspect of the parties....I agree 100%.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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1 minute ago, sachick said:

Move forward with what in court? What is she waiting for? We don't need to ask for an impeachment vote tomorrow, but an inquiry needs to be opened. Let's get the ball rolling.

Financials mainly - tax returns and Deutsche Bank dealings.  There's a strong likelihood Trump is involved in financial fraud and money laundering.  Having those "paper crimes" in hand would probably do it.  With Epstein apprehended and making headlines, female victims are now emboldened to come forward, and that includes at least one woman who was allegedly raped by both Epstein and Trump per sworn affidavit.

So 1) Mueller report/Trump serial obstruction of justice, 2) Trump financial crimes, 3) sexual assault/interface with international sex trafficker take together would be a far stronger hand that what Dems have today re impeachment.

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sachick

sachick 1189

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1 minute ago, deech said:

I agree.  If the point of today was to help educate America about what was in the report, then that is done.  It's time to vote to impeach or not.   Shit or get off the pot.  Do your constitutional duty or the Democrats will hopefully find someone who will do their duty.

I'm with you. You cannot have a president attempting to obstruct justice and NOT open an inquiry. Not opening an inquiry is basically saying it's ok to obstruct and go ahead and accept help from foreign nation. No biggie. Pelosi  is making political moves and just like the Republicans, putting party above country. I don't care if the Senate doesn't convict. I want republicans on record saying all these things are ok.

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sachick

sachick 1189

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5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Financials mainly - tax returns and Deutsche Bank dealings.  There's a strong likelihood Trump is involved in financial fraud and money laundering.  Having those "paper crimes" in hand would probably do it.  With Epstein apprehended and making headlines, female victims are now emboldened to come forward, and that includes at least one woman who was allegedly raped by both Epstein and Trump per sworn affidavit.

So 1) Mueller report/Trump serial obstruction of justice, 2) Trump financial crimes, 3) sexual assault/interface with international sex trafficker take together would be a far stronger hand that what Dems have today re impeachment.

Ok, but they make it seem like an impeachment inquiry is going to happen in 3 weeks. The process will take months. Get going on the Mueller stuff while you wait for the rest.

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sachick

sachick 1189

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Just now, 4th&Five said:

Just absolutely gutless and nutless. Do they really think court cases or his taxes will change any minds?

The president is a felon. Do your fucking job. 

How the fuck you going to put up a sign saying 10 instances of obstruction of justice and NOT say you need to look into impeachment?

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Individual 1 is also a co-conspirator in a felony scheme to defraud the voters in the 2016 election.  This is not really debatable anymore but whatever.  

It’s just amazing this obvious fraud and con man lied, cheated, and even betrayed his country to win an election.  Then he abused his power to cover up all the lying, cheating, and betraying.  THEN HE GOT CAUGHT FOR ALL OF IT.

And not a single fuck was given that day.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yep.

Everything about this press conference indicates that impeachment is where this is headed.

Well yeah, it’s the only way to make this situation tenable without starting impeachment.

They don’t have a choice now except to put on a front while doing jack shit.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well yeah, it’s the only way to make this situation tenable without starting impeachment.

They don’t have a choice now except to put on a front while doing jack shit.

Cool. 

But I think you're gonna get what you want. 

Those committee chairs are already there.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

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Brisket,
I don't know. I do think that the time for action is now. Tamely playing politics, at this point, legitimizes Trump's actions and sets a horrible precedent for what presidents can do.
Time to fight now. The facts are right there. If no one on the other side changes their mind, I don't care in my calculation. Fight now. Fight hard. Win or lose, it's the best decision.
I'm there. I don't think passive strategies have any chance of good outcome. Fascism is at our door.
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.

At this point I’ve got more faith In Democracy than leadership. I think it’s up to We The People to hit them in the ballot box.
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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this should've been the scene today when they came out for their press conference:

all four walk out.  pelosi introduces everyone, then introduces schiff.

schiff : "it's been a long time coming, but today was everything we could've hoped for and more.  all the terrible crimes, all the obstruction, all the impeachable offenses, a virtual orgy of evidence.  i knew it would be bad for the president, but this was effing devastating.  it took everything i had not to burst out laughing and clapping during mr mueller's testimony, and i'm sure my fellow democrats feel the same way, as i'm sure many of you at home who love this country and are tired of the lies...therefore, nancy?"

pelosi: "we will be starting impeachment inquiries next week.  it will long and exhaustive, but it's what this country deserves.  i'd love to stick around and answer questions, but obviously, i have shit to do.  have a good afternoon, make sure to hydrate, it's hotter than hell out there."

mic drop.  walk out.  set the narrative, just like trump does every single fucking day.  put him and his idiots on the defensive.

most people really have no read on what actually happened today, who benefits from it, and who's affected by it.  so you know what you do?  you fucking tell them what happened.

then everyone who wasn't really paying attention would be forced to say, "well damn, i guess things really did go badly today for the president, i guess he's as dirty as they say."

the second they didn't do this ^^^^^^ was the second they lost this battle.  he's still incredibly unlikable, and he's still gonna have to pull off a magic act to work the electoral math (even though he'll probably lose by 6-8mm votes in the popular).  and btw, i would've had this speech written yesterday, and staged this scene regardless of what was said, short of mueller passing out in the first half-hour.

ridiculous, predictable, weak, and boring.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Cool. 

But I think you're gonna get what you want. 

Those committee chairs are already there.

I’ve already stated what I think will happen.  Pelosi will start the process just as the clock is running out to save face and likely prevent acquittal in the Senate.

The lack of moral clarity in the light of the facts and evidence starring everyone in the face is what hurts the democrats the most here. 

Ironically, this also makes the democrats vulnerable for manipulation by the Russians because their trolls/bots will push hard AF on the impeachment division within the party.

Thanks Aunt Nancy

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

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This is not just an existential crisis for the country, but also for Trump, McConnell, the GOP and Putin. They are all in. Russia and others are going to cheat like a motherfucker. The GOP will be in full vote suppression mode. Trump will continue to claim millions of illegals voted for his opponent. Those votes will be thrown out if need be. Trump is going to "win" re-election and he'll never leave office willingly, because it would be straight to a jail cell.

If they don't impeach him now, it will be too late to stop any of this.  

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27601

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3 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

As far as I know, it's never been decided.   And certainly the language can be read that way. But I don't see a real purpose to the exception read that way — every crime can be pardoned, no matter how serious, except for an official who was impeached?   Even though that official can resign 5 minutes before being impeached and can then be pardoned for the exact same crime? 

I think it makes much more sense to read the clause as depriving the president of the pardon power while he is subject to an impeachment case, in order to stop him from corruptly using that power while essentially under trial for corruption. 

At the very least, lay that marker down with Trump and let a court decide. 

Are those codified and crystal clear with zero gray? That sure sounds like a lot of wiggle room. Norms don't exist. GOP killed them. 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's my question -- does any of it matter?  Did a single person in America change their mind or position today?  Those who read any of the report and have paid any attention know that we have a crooked criminal in the White House.  Those who are loyal to Trump won't ever change their mind -- no matter what the evidence, shooting a man in the face in the middle of 5th avenue, etc.  And then there is the biggest group -- those that aren't paying any attention at all, and haven't done so.   They aren't paying attention now, so they aren't moving either.

Positions vis-a-vis the administration are fixed.  The only thing that can change them is an externality that likely has little to do with the POTUS.  If we drop into a deep recession, that might change minds.  Likewise, if economic pressures push average worker pay up, that might move some folks.  Otherwise, everyone who's paying attention has already decided.  And anyone who isn't paying attention isn't going to suddenly start. 

Today was theater.  Everything has been theater, playing to an audience that has already reviewed the play before it was performed, or an audience that isn't even in the theater at all.

We're fixed into camps. Perhaps there will be some more stragglers from the GOP that divest themselves from the others but the Mythical Undecided. Who are they? Who among the nation has not formed an opinion? The women that can't make up their mind about what to have for dinner are firmly set. They either want to see the Anointed of God get another 4 years or vote out every R they can. 

I'm not convinced that impeachment is the best way to go. Clinton got re-elected. Unless you can slam dunk it in the Senate it's theater. 

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