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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hahahahaha. (Pours gasoline all over body, lights match)

 

Losing the independence from politics and impartiality to justice of the DOJ is the scariest prospect of all.  AG Bill Barr is a bad actor.  He has abused public trust and nothing suggests he has a limit until forcefully stopped.

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29348

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

The latter.

Yeah. I don't know the history behind it, but it strikes me as an attempt to preempt an argument that could otherwise be made that someone couldn't be impeached (e.g. a federal judge) because the President pardoned him for whatever crime he was being impeached for.

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bolverk

bolverk 29659

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Robert Mueller sounds exactly like John Kerry.  I actually glitched in my brain this morning and thought I was watching SOS Kerry testify on the Iran Deal a couple times.

There's definitely a glitch in your brain if you're going to rag on two decorated war vets but still support a fat pussy draft dodger.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11660

Posted
Posted
Just now, bolverk said:

There's definitely a glitch in your brain if you're going to rag on two decorated war vets but still support a fat pussy draft dodger.

Got nothing to do with “ragging”.

Just a factual observation.

sorry no perp walk today.  Maybe next month.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31441

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah. I don't know the history behind it, but it strikes me as an attempt to preempt an argument that could otherwise be made that someone couldn't be impeached (e.g. a federal judge) because the President pardoned him for whatever crime he was being impeached for.

Yes, crimes and impeachment are independent and the President cannot interfere with impeachment by with the pardon power. Alcee Hastings was acquitted, but impeached nevertheless, and is now the longest serving Floriduh representative.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
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Posted (edited)

Let’s look at the timeline here:

Midterm Election Pelosi:  “We will hold Trump accountable.”

January Pelosi: “We have to wait for Mueller”

Mueller Report:  “Here’s a fuckload of incriminating evidence on Trump breaking the law many many times pertaining to the Russia Investigation.”

Pelosi:  “We have to follow the facts and see where they lead us.  We should have Mueller come in to testify and see what he says.”

1000 Federal Prosecutors:  “Trump committed multiple felonies, more than enough evidence proves this.  This is really serious shit.”

Pelosi:  “Let Mueller speak for himself and lay out the facts.”

Mueller:  “My report is legit AF.  Trump can be charged with serious crimes and likely will once he’s out of office.”

Pelosi:  “We have to wait on the courts.  This would be a lot easier if Trump wasn’t obstructing our investigation every step of the way.  I don’t know what makes him think he can get away with this.”

 

FUCK YOU NANCY 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18851

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let’s look at the timeline here:

Midterm Election Pelosi:  “We will hold Trump accountable.”

January Pelosi: “We have to wait for Mueller”

Mueller Report:  “Here’s a fuckload incriminating evidence on Trump breaking the law many many times pertaining to the Russia Investigation.”

Pelosi:  “We have to follow the facts and see where they lead us.  We should have Mueller come in to testify and see what he says.”

1000 Federal Prosecutors:  “Trump committed multiple felonies, more than enough evidence proves this.  This is really serious shit.”

Pelosi:  “Let Mueller speak for himself and lay out the facts.”

Mueller:  “My report is legit AF.  Trump can be charged with serious crimes and likely will once he’s out of office.”

Pelosi:  “We have to wait on the courts.  This would be a lot easier if Trump wasn’t obstructing our investigation every step of the way.  I don’t know what makes him think he can get away with this.”

FUCK YOU NANCY 

You know it's ultimately not up to her, right?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31441

Posted
Posted

I dunno.  I think Nancy's view is that impeachment without conviction is too easily dismissed by "the base" as more political bs, and that might have the effect of completely neutralizing the Mueller Report, or energizing the base and others, or both.  Impeachment would be there if, God forbid, he won a second term.

It's a bit gutless, but I think it's shrewd.

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5792

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I dunno.  I think Nancy's view is that impeachment without conviction is too easily dismissed by "the base" as more political bs, and that might have the effect of completely neutralizing the Mueller Report, or energizing the base and others, or both.  Impeachment would be there if, God forbid, he won a second term.

It's a bit gutless, but I think it's shrewd.

I honestly can't think of a worse, more bitch ass move, than waiting and trying to impeach after he wins a second term. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6161

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Hmmmm.

Can someone tell Aaron that he is not in denial. That dumb son of a bitch realizes he will be facing prison time when he loses in 2020. Dotard is trying to shape the message to his base to avoid the consequences of losing the election. 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13579

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I dunno.  I think Nancy's view is that impeachment without conviction is too easily dismissed by "the base" as more political bs, and that might have the effect of completely neutralizing the Mueller Report, or energizing the base and others, or both.  Impeachment would be there if, God forbid, he won a second term.

It's a bit gutless, but I think it's shrewd.

At minimum, not opening an impeachment inquiry now leaves her more open to charges of crass political gain-

 

"They had the Mueller Report for months. Decided not to impeach. Then they brought up Mueller. Angry Democrat. Still don't want to impeach. Now it's election time, and guess what?....."

 

I would consider that just monumentally stupid.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29348

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I dunno.  I think Nancy's view is that impeachment without conviction is too easily dismissed by "the base" as more political bs, and that might have the effect of completely neutralizing the Mueller Report, or energizing the base and others, or both.  Impeachment would be there if, God forbid, he won a second term.

It's a bit gutless, but I think it's shrewd.

If Nancy Pelosi is basing her strategy to any degree whatsoever on how Trump's base will react she should resign tomorrow.  Trump's base isn't sitting home when he's on the ballet regardless of the context.  The economy could plummet and unemployment could skyrocket to 15% before election day and his base would still turn out.

To the extent I am willing to credit her with any shrewdness, I'd say she's probably running cover for the moderate House Dems in purple districts who think an impeachment will make it harder for them to win.  Too many Dems still have this stupid view in their heads of a huge mythical group of undecided centrist voters who just want to see a party that "gets stuff done."

In my more cynical moments, I tend to think Pelosi would prefer to lose rather than risk upsetting a power structure that has been enormously beneficial to her and her friends.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted

Look and listen to the presser this afternoon with Pelosi, Nadler, Schiff, Cummings.  

Specifically listen to minutes 13' to 16', and Pelosi's answer at 15:30 to the first question about impeachment timing.

She defines it has "having to be done with their strongest possible hand" and that "we still have some outstanding matters in the courts."   "It's about the Congress, the Constitution, and the Courts and we are fighting the President in the courts." 

Those outstanding issues she references are about waiting on some more information that Mueller couldn't address about "personal and business connections" of the President and "the possibility one of those is to the Russians."

Given how unworried Pelosi sounds, I think she's got a clue about what's coming out.  Think NRA cash, Inauguration cash, Deutsche Bank, personal taxes.

 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 hour ago, suddenly shaggy said:

It's sure as hell going to be the norm if there isn't any punishment for it. 

Trump should have been gone when he fired Comey over the Russia investigation.  However, Trump had protection from the House.  Nunes and Goodlatte weren’t just acting as his shield, they were also his sword helping Trump obstruct justice.   Trump decapitated the leadership at the FBI, then congress worked their hardest to discredit most of them, including McCabe, the acting FBI Director after Trump fired Comey. 

McCabe ordered a counterintelligence investigation into the president shortly after Comey was terminated.  Rosenstein knew about it.  Peter Strozk was one of the FBI’s top counterintelligence officers at that time and also part of the Mueller investigation.  

Mueller had to terminate Strozk’s involvement due to some text messages that called Trump an idiot.  Congress found out about it and leaked the Strozk/Page text messages.  Congress then used those text messages to discredit Strozk, Page, and the investigation.  Then they went after Bruce Ohr who heard some of the early Dossier reporting through Steele.  Bruce Ohr is our Russian organized crime specialist.  Congress also went after Rosenstein for not releasing classified information pertaining to the origins of the Russia investigation.  

Congress also went after Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson for the Dossier.  And now, in hindsight, were on top of the Russia attack in real time.  

All this leg work Congress did to protect Trump was clearly coordinated with Fox News and Trump’s twitter feed.  

This side of the public opinion obstruction of justice is not in the Mueller Report but it happened and it was effective.

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Welch

Welch 635

Posted
Posted

 

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I’m not a Nancy fan, and I could very well be wrong but I’m guessing she waits until the bipartisan spending bill is in the books before doing anything else.  Otherwise the traitors would scuttle it and blame the democrats for a shutdown.  

This has been my thought as well.  And it wouldn’t just be a shutdown, but a default.

I don’t think the administration would want a debt limit breach even in the face of an impeachment, but I’d be happier if it weren’t even an option.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18851

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump should have been gone when he fired Comey over the Russia investigation.  However, Trump had protection from the House.  Nunes and Goodlatte weren’t just acting as his shield, they were also his sword helping Trump obstruct justice.   Trump decapitated the leadership at the FBI, then congress worked their hardest to discredit most of them, including McCabe, the acting FBI Director after Trump fired Comey. 

McCabe ordered a counterintelligence investigation into the president shortly after Comey was terminated.  Rosenstein knew about it.  Peter Strozk was one of the FBI’s top counterintelligence officers at that time and also part of the Mueller investigation.  

Mueller had to terminate Strozk’s involvement due to some text messages that called Trump an idiot.  Congress found out about it and leaked the Strozk/Page text messages.  Congress then used those text messages to discredit Strozk, Page, and the investigation.  Then they went after Bruce Ohr who heard some of the early Dossier reporting through Steele.  Bruce Ohr is our Russian organized crime specialist.  Congress also went after Rosenstein for not releasing classified information pertaining to the origins of the Russia investigation.  

Congress also went after Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson for the Dossier.  And now, in hindsight, were on top of the Russia attack in real time.  

All this leg work Congress did to protect Trump was clearly coordinated with Fox News and Trump’s twitter feed.  

This side of the public opinion obstruction of justice is not in the Mueller Report but it happened and it was effective.

They might have been blocking for him, but the political make up of the House at the time he fired Comey didn't have any impact on whether or not he remained in office.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29902

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


At this point I’ve got more faith In Democracy than leadership. I think it’s up to We The People to hit them in the ballot box.

It would be the best outcome if you were correct. I listened to All Things Considered on NPR and was chagrined to hear the same template for coverage like what is happening is within the norm. Get both sides. Focus on a few details. Cut to a coffee house for some man on the street worthlessness.

We're sleep walking through an existential crisis. I hope enough zombies vote against Trump in a year and a half, but that's a long time to let the bull crash around in the China Shop. 

If openly calling for the removal of a clearly wicked man means that should Trump survive impeachment he would be elected, what does that say about the democracy?

I have no faith in the electorate to choose wisely. If someone I want elected makes it into office, I don't fool myself by thinking it's the result of applied wisdom. It's usually for the same dumb reasons people I don't like get elected. Emotion. Gut feeling. What the voter hates.

I would love for you to bookmark this post and throw it in my face in December of 2020. I really would.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
Posted

Holy shit there are a bunch of whiny bitches up in here. 

I hate to break it to folks but Nancy and the Dems don’t have the power to remove a criminal potus. Removal requires 2/3 of the senate and a sizable number of GOP senators to support. After watching the GOP today, does anyone think any GOP Senator is going to vote for removal?

Trump isn’t being removed by the senate. Sorry folks.

Trump will need to be removed by the electorate.

The game is still to maximize GOP pain in 2020 by forcing them to support a criminal potus even after exposure of his financial crimes.  The game will be won in the 2020 election

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TtomTerrific

TtomTerrific 200

Posted
Posted

thanks Jim....

continue with the reckless cries of racism cuz this cactus is no longer tilt worthy....the victory lap will be embarassing for America, but it is coming...hopefully your "everyone is a racist" plan works out or Trump is here until 2024 and his pin up daughter will be our first female President.

keep up the good work.

thanks for the last 2 years of laughs, 2018 Dems. 

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Jim Tom Pinch

Jim Tom Pinch 120

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Can someone tell Aaron that he is not in denial. That dumb son of a bitch realizes he will be facing prison time when he loses in 2020. Dotard is trying to shape the message to his base to avoid the consequences of losing the election. 

Jesus Christ, you fuckers really do live in Fantasyland.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TtomTerrific said:

The Dems ruined a good man and a patriot today.

Donald must be seething with envy over their superior power to ruin a good man in one day, far beyond what his tiny thumbs could do over two consecutive years !  

Ruined !   lol

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Donald must be seething with envy over their superior power to ruin a good man in one day, far beyond what his tiny thumbs could do over two consecutive years !  

Ruined !   lol

Orange Man going to prison any day now! 

democratscry.jpg

For real this time!

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Holy shit there are a bunch of whiny bitches up in here. 

I hate to break it to folks but Nancy and the Dems don’t have the power to remove a criminal potus. Removal requires 2/3 of the senate and a sizable number of GOP senators to support. After watching the GOP today, does anyone think any GOP Senator is going to vote for removal?

Trump isn’t being removed by the senate. Sorry folks.

Trump will need to be removed by the electorate.

The game is still to maximize GOP pain in 2020 by forcing them to support a criminal potus even after exposure of his financial crimes.  The game will be won in the 2020 election

 

There’s also the part where the Senate is blocking legislation to protect our elections from the same attack that defrauded the voters in the last presidential election. 

Also, Trump has to win or maybe go to jail so that puts another nice incentive for him not to break the law again to win. 

Also, the Department of Justice has been subverted so there isn’t going to be anymore Mueller investigations, even if one is clearly warranted, like for say, cheating in a Presidential election, unless of course it’s by the democrats.

Yeah, this is going to play out well. 

It’s just tyranny.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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TtomTerrific

TtomTerrific 200

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Donald must be seething with envy over their superior power to ruin a good man in one day, far beyond what his tiny thumbs could do over two consecutive years !  

Ruined !   lol

yes...ruined.

he will never be mentioned as a credible witness again in any forum after today.

The only guy trying to protect him from this was, ironically, Bill Barr.

"please speak into the microphone"....."what page is that on again?"..... mouth agape...

 

 

this is a guy who has checked out....this is why no questions were permitted at his press conference.Que up the "super hero cartoon" image of him coming to rearrange the 2016 election.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There’s also the part where the Senate is blocking legislation to protect our elections from the same attack that defrauded the voters in the last presidential election. 

Also, Trump has to win or maybe go to jail so that puts another nice incentive for him not to break the law again to win. 

Also, the Department of Justice has been subverted so there isn’t going to be anymore Mueller investigations, even if one is clearly warranted, like for say, cheating in a Presidential election, unless of course it’s by the democrats.

Yeah, this is going to play out well. 

It’s just tyranny.

 

It was her turn!

1563986553435-pol.png

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5792

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Is this like, your make believe fantasy ?

I’d like to hear you elaborate.

What you're gonna get instead is a negular bomb if you keep quoting him. You assholes have figured out how not to quote zavala, but ttom is like an addiction for you guys, even though he's never said a single thing worth a damn on the politics board.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23464

Posted
Posted

So a couple random thoughts after the testimony today.

It seems to me that Mueller was a professor emeritus type figure over the OSC. He engaged in high level strategy, provided legal input and guidance when issues required senior input, provided political insights, and was the name behind the lab, etc. but really wasn't in on the day to day operations of the investigation. A lot of people had made him out to be a superhero like figure that was going to white hat into this affair, put all the pieces of the puzzle together, and articulate it in a compelling way to the American people.  That really didn't happen. He was not that savior figure.  He is senior citizen with a long history of service to his country, that didn't want to be subjected to the nonsense of today, and tried at the last minute to get his day to day operations man sworn in to assist.  All of that is totally understandable.

The GOP seemed to focus on Vol I and the Russia investigation, in particular poking holes in a variety of aspects of the investigation, some of which have been discussed here ad nauseam.  And few of which I am frankly aligned to when it comes to surveillance activities and the intersection of opposition research.  We don't need to rehash, but I will acknowledge that it does not feel particularly strong in posture to be in synch with Devin Nunes on certain of those topics.  I thought that he asked some questions that deserve answers. I think that Mueller should have answered a good number of those questions, but they aren't coming today.  That is the purpose of testimony, but this wasn't really testimony. Enough of that.

The Democrats showed better preparation, and broad coherence in their questioning, imo.  They clearly game planned and stacked and ordered questions to develop a narrative and tee up conclusions. They frankly had the easier job today as Vol II is compelling and all they really had to do was quote verbatim and elicit a series of yes responses.  They laid it out and they showed out much better, and given the nature of the dynamics today, they looked good while the R reps, with a few noteworthy exceptions, looked like angry people yelling at an elderly man. However, I don't really think that the testimony today moved the needle and was an event that Mueller didn't want to participate in.  I think that that probably should have been respected, but its all part of the game.

Trump should be impeached.  He probably won't.  If he is, I will break even on the coin I dropped on an "impeach" mention. But I think I'm just going more in the hole. What a stupid angle.  I frankly expected Mueller to come in far more articulate and commanding, but should have seen the tells from his prior presser and older testimony.  There is literally zero chance Trump gets removed from office, unless some new revelation falls from the sky. The GOP Senators have every bit of cover they need without a compelling Russia conspiracy angle. Just my 2 cents on the days events.  In full disclosure, I missed most of the second half of the day, and a portion of the first, but those were my take aways.  

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