The Robert Mueller Investigation

[UpperWestside 6191]

6 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I think you have him confused with Hornius Emeritus, who runs ToT.  He is not a trump 

Actually nevermind. He had negged me before on here months ago, but it could have been on something unrelated and I just confused it with another topic. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by UpperWestside

[Anastasis 23486]

7 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

It's good to know that the guy who runs Traces of Texas negs posts critical of Dotard. Not shocked by that as he is likely pretty old and is in Dotard's wheelhouse.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Anastasis

[HRSchenker 2275]

What was the purpose of asking Mueller to testify? I watched most of it today and I felt sorry for him and the Democrats. What was supposed to be another nail in the 2020 coffin for the Trump campaign just ended up being campaign commercial material for the GOP.

[Anastasis 23486]

Just now, HRSchenker said:

What was the purpose of asking Mueller to testify? I watched most of it today and I felt sorry for him and the Democrats. What was supposed to be another nail in the 2020 coffin for the Trump campaign just ended up being campaign commercial material for the GOP.

Really it never should have happened. He told them he didnt want to do it.  They forced him to, thinking that it would drive their political ends.  It didn't. It was a waste of everybody's time and energy. And now they all go on recess for six weeks. 

[David Dennison 18951]

3 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

What was the purpose of asking Mueller to testify? I watched most of it today and I felt sorry for him and the Democrats. What was supposed to be another nail in the 2020 coffin for the Trump campaign just ended up being campaign commercial material for the GOP.

What part of it can go in a campaign commercial for the GOP?

 

[Anastasis 23486]

Just now, David Dennison said:

What part of it can go in a campaign commercial for the GOP?

  

You would be surprised what good editing can do.

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, Anastasis said:

You would be surprised what good editing can do.

To quote a prolific poster on this board, "On both sides."

[RomaVicta 30033]

Move along. It's just American democracy dying a slow death drowning in lies and idiocy and the con men who best know how to exploit it. Nothing to see here. Don't believe your eyes and ears when they saw and heard the special counsel say Trump could be indicted for obstruction when he leaves office. Don't pay any attention to the succinct presentations of massive corruption by those all around Trump. 

It was a good day for Trump. We say so. We say in constantly because we're team players who love our team.

Never mind that the press is the enemy of the state and dissident elected officials have been told to return to the countries they came from. It's all good. It's in the hands of the greatest president ever.

I've heard hundreds of professional and amateur operatives say this. I've seen the GOPs in congress get in line.

Keep lying, fuckwads. It's working, and all it costs is your soul. 

 

Edit: Yes, that's the story! Mueller's voice was weak and he seemed tired! I give it 24 hours before the investigation is dismissed as the ravings of a senile partisan old man acting at the behest of the Clintons!

Yay! The team could pull this out! Who cares about policy? Just win, baby!

Edited July 25, 2019 by RomaVicta

[Anastasis 23486]

NYT piece, generally aligned to my impressions wrt Mueller's role and acuity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/us/politics/mueller-hearings-performance.html

 

 

 

Mueller’s Labored Performance Was a Departure From His Once-Fabled Stamina

 

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Robert S. Mueller III was at times halting and hesitant when he testified before Congress on Wednesday.CreditCreditDoug Mills/The New York Times

By Sharon LaFraniere, Michael S. Schmidt, Noah Weiland and Adam Goldman

• July 24, 2019
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WASHINGTON — Soon after the special counsel’s office opened in 2017, some aides noticed that Robert S. Mueller III kept noticeably shorter hours than he had as F.B.I. director, when he showed up at the bureau daily at 6 a.m. and often worked nights.

He seemed to cede substantial responsibility to his top deputies, including Aaron Zebley, who managed day-to-day operations and often reported on the investigation’s progress up the chain in the Justice Department. As negotiations with President Trump’s lawyers about interviewing him dragged on, for example, Mr. Mueller took part less and less, according to people familiar with how the office worked.

That hands-off style was on display on Wednesday when Mr. Mueller testified for about seven hours before two House committees. Once famous for his laserlike focus, Mr. Mueller, who will turn 75 next month, seemed hesitant about the facts in his own 448-page report. He struggled at one point to come up with the word “conspiracy.”

At one excruciatingly awkward moment, he stumbled over a poorly worded question about who was president when he served as a top federal prosecutor in 1986, apparently assuming the questioner meant his subsequent Justice Department post.

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“He didn’t have the fight in him that he used to have,” said Glenn Kirschner, who worked with Mr. Mueller as a homicide prosecutor in the mid-1990s.

Mr. Mueller delivered a stronger performance in the afternoon, when the questioning focused on Russia’s interference in the 2016 election instead of whether the president had obstructed justice, noted John S. Pistole, a former deputy F.B.I. director. Mr. Mueller called forcefully for the government to do more to combat Russia’s continued efforts to meddle in American elections.

 

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Still, Mr. Pistole acknowledged, he was not “as precise as he was in his dozens of previous appearances as director.”

For Mr. Mueller’s many Democratic and Republican fans, who revere his long, scandal-free record of public service, the testimony was sometimes painful to watch.

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4:15Highlights From Robert Mueller’s Congressional Testimony

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, testified at a House hearing about his report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.CreditCreditErin Schaff/The New York Times

“This is delicate to say, but Mueller, whom I deeply respect, has not publicly testified before Congress in at least six years. And he does not appear as sharp as he was then,” David Axelrod, a former top Obama White House strategist while Mr. Mueller was still serving as F.B.I. director, wrote on Twitter.

 

Asked for comment, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, ticked off Mr. Mueller’s many accomplishments as a Vietnam War hero, as a federal prosecutor and as the F.B.I. director after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. “This hearing should not be the judge of his service to our country,” Mr. Graham said somberly.

“Bob Mueller has served this country well and honorably,” said Senator John Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, who said he had watched about 30 minutes of the morning hearing before the House Judiciary Committee. “I hope this isn’t the American people’s last memory of him.”

Mr. Mueller’s halting delivery stood out all the more given his towering reputation for a command of facts and physical stamina — the stuff of lore among his former aides and colleagues.

While in the hospital recovering from prostate surgery in 2001, Mr. Mueller had a top F.B.I. official deliver briefing books for him to read in bed, according to a book about his F.B.I. tenure by Garrett M. Graff.

At the end of a long trip abroad in the mid-2000s, Mr. Mueller hopped off the plane while a colleague, 20 years his junior, was carried off on a stretcher to be treated for severe fatigue. “He had the greatest stamina of anyone I’ve ever worked for,” said Matthew G. Olsen, Mr. Mueller’s former special counsel at the F.B.I.

Over the years, aides marveled to reporters about how Mr. Mueller managed to simultaneously grasp details and stay focused on the big picture. In 88 previous appearances before Congress, he studiously managed to avoid political fights, while keeping overly inquisitive members at bay in exchanges that have become famous for how little he managed to say.

 

Mr. Mueller hewed to that pattern with House members on Wednesday, brusquely dismissing some questions out of hand and refusing to engage when they tried to bait him into delivering conclusions beyond those in his report.

Nonetheless, he was unmistakably shaky. Roughly 15 times, he asked for a question to be repeated. He repeatedly said, “If it’s from the report, yes, I support it” — a line that seemed to suggest that he did not know what the report actually said. He seemed to struggle to complete his sentences, and not always because he had been interrupted.

 

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Aaron Zebley, a longtime aide to Mr. Mueller, joined him at the witness table.CreditErin Schaff/The New York Times

What effect, if any, his performance might have on the American public’s opinion of his investigation is far from clear. According to a poll released this week by the Pew Center, nearly two-thirds of Americans — including, for the first time, a majority of Republicans — say they are confident that Mr. Mueller conducted a fair investigation.

Had Mr. Mueller delivered a commanding performance — even if he said little — he might have cemented that impression. Instead, he may have ignited a whole new set of questions about whether he was too old for the job he took on, whether he delegated too many decisions to his top deputies, and whether he was reluctant to testify because he was not up to it.

In fact, those suspicions already had some currency. In Senate testimony this year, Attorney General William P. Barr suggested that in a March 5 meeting, Mr. Mueller did not clearly articulate his reasoning about why he declined to decide whether President Trump had committed a prosecutable crime.

Mr. Trump lost no time proclaiming that Mr. Mueller was out of touch with his own inquiry. “He didn’t even know what was going on,” the president declared hours after Mr. Mueller left the witness table dressed in his trademark white button-down shirt and dark suit. “I think Robert Mueller did a horrible job both today and with respect to the investigation,” he declared.

 

It is unlikely that Mr. Mueller’s team will rush to his defense. For the past two years, not one of them has responded to attacks by Mr. Trump and his allies.

The team’s loyalty to Mr. Mueller, who insisted on a leakproof operation, remains deep. Little has emerged about the inner workings of the special counsel’s office even in the weeks since the team disbanded in May.

But what has dribbled out suggests that Mr. Mueller’s wobbly performance might not have come as a surprise to his subordinates.

The calendars of one of the team’s top prosecutors, Andrew Weissmann, suggest that he met infrequently with Mr. Mueller apart from a daily 5 p.m. staff meeting, which typically lasted 45 minutes.

Instead, the calendars cite Mr. Zebley’s initials 111 times, often next to “team leader” meetings, suggesting he may have led them.

 

Emily Cochrane and Eileen Sullivan contributed reporting.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Anastasis

[Zavala 1384]

Lulz, what a brilliant headline, great job.

Nadler: The report not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of Justice.

Mueller: Correct

How many people have been investigated and found to be "not exonerated"? 

 

[Biff Tannen 45750]

I didn't realize Mueller's stamina and ability to hold up to intense questioning for multiple hours had anything to do with the investigation.  Maybe he should have been working out or just not be so old.  Trump must be innocent because Mueller is old.  Is that the angle?  Because it's fucking stupid.

[TornACL 7729]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I didn't realize Mueller's stamina and ability to hold up to intense questioning for multiple hours had anything to do with the investigation.  Maybe he should have been working out or just not be so old.  Trump must be innocent because Mueller is old.  Is that the angle?  Because it's fucking stupid.

Everything is stupid. Welcome to America 2019. Enjoy it while you can. 

[hobbes2702 13082]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I didn't realize Mueller's stamina and ability to hold up to intense questioning for multiple hours had anything to do with the investigation.  Maybe he should have been working out or just not be so old.  Trump must be innocent because Mueller is old.  Is that the angle?  Because it's fucking stupid.

No fucking shit. The amount of hoops the media is trying to jump through here is a fucking joke

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

So I guess the probable cause threshold to justify investigating Trump’s finances must be high considering all the financial crimes of [checks notes] everyone around him. 

[David Dennison 18951]

27 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Lulz, what a brilliant headline, great job.

Nadler: The report not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of Justice.

Mueller: Correct

How many people have been investigated and found to be "not exonerated"? 

 

You support a man who will probably be indicted when he leaves office.

Well done.

[Zavala 1384]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You support a man who will probably be indicted when he leaves office.

Well done.

I support nothing, it's a show, and it's very entertaining watching you turds squirm and bitch about everything orange man related.

Ya had a cute comic book and everything!

 

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, Zavala said:

I support nothing, it's a show, and it's very entertaining watching you turds squirm and bitch about everything orange man related.

You support Donald Trump. 

[Zavala 1384]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You support Donald Trump. 

I support salt mining.

Qboomers, Mueller, Trump, it's all just shit to fill your head while the war machine keeps chugging.

Raise your kids right and hope for the best, caring so much about politics has polluted your brain with nonsense and hate.

Football season is one month away dude.

[Junior Miller 1502]

Has everyone come to the realization that the USA is a declining power who is on the fast track to economic ruin and mass population idiocy?

And that nothing will be done to stop it. 

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, Junior Miller said:

Has everyone come to the realization that the USA is a declining power who is on the fast track to economic ruin and mass population idiocy?

And that nothing will be done to stop it. 

It's probably for the best. 

We had a good run. Sort of.

[Brisketexan 105460]

Has everyone come to the realization that the USA is a declining power who is on the fast track to economic ruin and mass population idiocy?
And that nothing will be done to stop it. 

If so, it’s about goddamned time. It’s been obvious for quite a while.

[Bullneck 19222]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You support Donald Trump. 

Zavala likes to act like it's all a game now that everyone can see what idiots Trump supporters are.  

[David Dennison 18951]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

If so, it’s about goddamned time. It’s been obvious for quite a while.

Getting dragged into Vietnam probably began the long slide. 

Ronald Reagan made Americans hate America.

And here we are.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Thought Mueller was bad. Seemed feeble, was stuttering and unsure of obvious things.

Impeachment by the house is probably unlikely. Top Dems are opposed to it for political reasons, not enough political support from the independents. Only thing we can know for sure is that the 1% will become even richer and the military industrial complex will become more powerful. 

Tbh I would like a President that I can ignore for months at a time. 

[zork 629]

 

[David Dennison 18951]

Of course he didn't write it.

[Anastasis 23486]

All empires must end. Usually with a good measure of social and moral decay at the core.  Internally generated divisions with external catalysts don't hurt either. America is not the center of the world, nor will the fate of our souls hang in the balance of the outcome of the empire.

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, Anastasis said:

All empires must end. Usually with a good measure of social and moral decay at the core.  Internally generated divisions with external catalysts don't hurt either. America is not the center of the world, nor will the fate of our souls hang in the balance of the outcome of the empire.

Yeah, well, we're it for the foreseeable future. No one else is even close. 

[hobbes2702 13082]

Just now, zork said:

 

I would imagine he didn’t write the report. I’m not sure why anyone would think he did? Have you never managed anything before?

[Anastasis 23486]

5 minutes ago, zork said:

 

So this "ill take your question" was much different in tone than the one that was discussed upthread. 

[zork 629]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

So this "ill take your question" was much different in tone than the one that was discussed upthread. 

I exonerate you for not knowing the meaning of that quoted statement.

[WhatTheBuck 28811]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

I would imagine he didn’t write the report. I’m not sure why anyone would think he did? Have you never managed anything before?

A mop, at best. 

[notre dame joe 197]

6 hours ago, Zavala said:

It was her turn!

If you think 'the squad' disrespected old white people before this . . . 

[Homercles 10206]

Well after seeing the first wave, post-hearing, of our resident Trump Defenders...I must say I’m not really impressed with their initial ammo of talking points.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

My pre-hearing commentary of “Funeral Director Bob Mueller presiding over the burial services of America in an open casket hearing” was sadly more spot on than I hoped. 

[RPM 26366]

Watching Morning Joe (which I usually don't) and they just ran Schiff's  questioning of Meuller. That's all that's needed to move forward with an impeachment inquiry. Trump's reaction to an NBC reporter asking about the possibility he could be charged out of office didn't look good.

[RomaVicta 30033]

6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

I would imagine he didn’t write the report. I’m not sure why anyone would think he did? Have you never managed anything before?

His audience is exactly those wanting to believe what he says. It's vast. It's chanting USA! USA! USA! as it destroys what's left of the Founders' America.

I'm sure that a few pithy posts from me will slow it down.

[DigglerontheHoof 21261]

An out-of-the-blue thought:  At some point don't our former living presidents have to weigh in on this?  And not only the Mueller investigation but Trump's dangerous rhetoric, as well?

I really think they need a joint statement on the criminality and moral rot of this administration. 

[RomaVicta 30033]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My pre-hearing commentary of “Funeral Director Bob Mueller presiding over the burial services of America in an open casket hearing” was sadly more spot on than I hoped. 

He should be ashamed that presenting facts enough to destroy the president wasn't enough.

He went to one futile war for America and did his duty to the country with distinction. He's done his duty in this increasingly futile war actually in America and probably feels older than he is to see so few people who took his same oath willing to do the same.

His reward will be scorn and ridicule.

His opponents (and America's) will be rapidly defended by his countrymen.

It's a great day to put on your jersey and cheer for your team.

My profound apologies to Robert Mueller for your service.

USA! USA! USA!

And so it is.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

Bob didn’t even try. He just let the hand picked Democratic team run with it. 

Not familiar with Fusion GPS?

First time ever “not exonerating” the subject of an investigation as it’s not even your place to do so.

Confirmed that his investigation was not obstructed in anyway and there was no Russian collusion. 

Should have kept Bob off TV to keep portraying him as a noble man of the law. 

He came off as a clear show pony who had little involvement in the report brandishing his name. 

Please impeach now so the country can disregard it and move on. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

31 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

An out-of-the-blue thought:  At some point don't our former living presidents have to weigh in on this?  And not only the Mueller investigation but Trump's dangerous rhetoric, as well?

I really think they need a joint statement on the criminality and moral rot of this administration. 

A joint statement is a brilliant idea, if you could get one.   Carter and Clinton would be in for sure, but I don't know if you could get W or Obama to come out publicly. 

[Goredho 17426]

13 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let’s look at the timeline here:

Midterm Election Pelosi:  “We will hold Trump accountable.”

January Pelosi: “We have to wait for Mueller”

Mueller Report:  “Here’s a fuckload of incriminating evidence on Trump breaking the law many many times pertaining to the Russia Investigation.”

Pelosi:  “We have to follow the facts and see where they lead us.  We should have Mueller come in to testify and see what he says.”

1000 Federal Prosecutors:  “Trump committed multiple felonies, more than enough evidence proves this.  This is really serious shit.”

Pelosi:  “Let Mueller speak for himself and lay out the facts.”

Mueller:  “My report is legit AF.  Trump can be charged with serious crimes and likely will once he’s out of office.”

Pelosi:  “We have to wait on the courts.  This would be a lot easier if Trump wasn’t obstructing our investigation every step of the way.  I don’t know what makes him think he can get away with this.”

 

FUCK YOU NANCY 

The Dems can impeach, but the GOP in the senate will never force Trump to be removed.   Never, ever, never no matter what.  Their constituents just don’t give a shit about anything causing libs and centrists angst.  Our level of angst is their success metric.

So while right and justified, impeachment is a hopeless and futile gesture in and of itself.  Really the only thing Nancy and the other Dems can do is control the timing of impeachment to have maximum impact on the next election.  To get enough libs, centrists and normally politically apathetic to the polls to overcome voter suppression, Russian influence and the mob of deplorables so as to remove this fucker via the ballot box.  Normally I would despise this as self-serving politics as usual, but I think getting Trump unelected is of the highest importance.  His ideology and methods represent the worst that is America and we are at risk that it defines who we are for a generation or more.

Trump and Co have been trying to provoke the impeachment showdown for awhile now.  It’s in their best interests to have it happen distal to the election. If an impeachment fizzles 6 months out, they will spam America with spin, false narratives and ridiculous absurdities until whatever came out during the impeachment is long forgotten.  Remember that time Trump revealed state secrets to Russia right after the election?  What about his talk of both sides after Charlottesville?  You do?  Well, no one else does.  Look at his poll numbers if you don’t believe me.

Now whether the Dems are pursuing this as a strategy and are sly enough to pull it off or not remains to be seen.  They could easily fuck shit up or be thwarted by the conservative/Russian machine, but if they waste their one political bullet with time for Trump to recover?  Welcome to four more years of Moving On America Like A Bitch Again.

#MOALABA!

Edited July 25, 2019 by Goredho

[jimmyjazz 46275]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

A joint statement is a brilliant idea, if you could get one.   Carter and Clinton would be in for sure, but I don't know if you could get W or Obama to come out publicly. 

Eh, it would be largely toothless.  3 Dems and a Republican simpleton.

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Please impeach now so the country can disregard it and move on. 

Holding the threat of impeachment over his head while he’s forced to fight in court to hide his financials really puts him in a sour mood.

But if those financials show compromising ties to Russia, it will close the loop and be well worth the wait. Even dimwits understand being bought off.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

But the GOP in the senate will never force Trump to be removed.   Never, ever, never 

This talking point, while objectively true, needs to die in a fire.  We are way past this shit.  

The impeachment inquiry move isn’t about removing Trump.  It’s about wielding righteous power.  There is no liability for the democrats to beginning the process now unless they have zero intention of ever impeaching Trump.  With the way Trump is obstructing, they can drag the process out for at least a year and have some control over the media narrative while doing it.

7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Trump and Co have been trying to provoke the impeachment showdown for awhile now.

I don’t see it.  Trump’s public statements praising and defending Pelosi are the biggest tell.  

Trump’s strategy is to obstruct, obstruct, obstruct.  If he wanted to be impeached, he’d be publicly confessing to crimes, handing over incriminating documents, and openly committing crimes.   He wants to keep the democrats digging and the democrats want to keep digging, this is a symbiotic relationship to avoid impeachment. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

9 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I think getting Trump unelected is of the highest importance

This is the correct answer. We need to remove the criminal potus. There is only one way to do it. 

Everything needs to be timed and focused on removing potus by the electorate.

People on this board need to come to grips with the fact that a GOP senate is not going to remove him.

Yes. It sucks that our potus is a criminal.

Yes. It sucks that our potus represents the interests of his family's pocket book and the interests of other countries.

Yes. It sucks that we are global embarrassment.

Elections have consequences.

Strap your boots. Change your panties. Cowboy up. Nobody said this would be easy. 

[Zavala 1384]

Couldn't use "collusion" because it's not a legal term. 

Did use "exonerate" and the entire news media ran with it. The nobody in the justice system has the power to exonerate. 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Zavala

[David Dennison 18951]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This talking point, while objectively true, needs to die in a fire.  We are way past this shit.  

The impeachment inquiry move isn’t about removing Trump.  It’s about wielding righteous power.  There is no liability for the democrats to beginning the process now unless they have zero intention of ever impeaching Trump.  With the way Trump is obstructing, they can drag the process out for at least a year and have some control over the media narrative while doing it.

There is no such thing as righteous power in politics. You win or you lose. Impeaching the president and not being able to remove him will be spun and portrayed as a failure from every single media outlet in the country. That's just the way it is.

Edited July 25, 2019 by David Dennison

[WhatTheBuck 28811]

I don't know what's going to happen. But George W. Bush should've been removed from office and thrown into jail for war crimes. He wasn't. I'm accustomed to living in an imperfect world where things that should happen don't always happen.  

I'm still hoping that the impeachment timeline is set to begin in the fall. 

[TornACL 7729]

10 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I don't know what's going to happen. But George W. Bush should've been removed from office and thrown into jail for war crimes. He wasn't. I'm accustomed to living in an imperfect world where things that should happen don't always happen.  

I'm still hoping that the impeachment timeline is set to begin in the fall. 

We've basically had at least a few wackjobs screaming for the impeachment of our past 5 presidents.  And maybe before that, but I wasn't around to see it.

The problem with people immediately demanding impeachment and imprisonment is that it leads to a Chicken Little syndrome...and the right people don't pay attention once said demands are actually warranted.