The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Buzzrock 14,926]

The thing I was wondering during the campaign, all along, scratching my head and wondering, was "Who the hell is funding Trump's campaign? What lobbies are behind him?" There's that old idea that our politicians should wear NASCAR style suits bearing the patches of all the Fortune 500 companies that own them, but I could never figure out what would go on Trump's NASCAR uniform. With guys like McCain and Graham, it's Raytheon and Lockheed. With Dole it was Big Ag. With all the Bushes it was Big Awl. Democrats get the unions, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, Big Law, and certain elements on Wall Street. 
But with Trump? Where was the money coming from, and who would demand favors in return?
And don't try to tell me he self-funded this shit, or that the Mercers alone funded the entire campaign. 

It was all that coal miner union money.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

Not sure if folks heard about this but one method of money laundering the Russians were potentially using had to do with online gaming where dirty money was used to purchase in-game features. I forget the details of the company that was doing this for an oligarch

I’ve read that cam models are used for money laundering. No idea how that would work. Or what a cam girl is. Allegedly.

[Ted Lange 16,110]

 

[Buzzrock 14,926]

PACs need to be eliminated. 

That could be a whole separate thread.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

Nobody makes money off of Trump's name without him getting a piece.  If we've learned anything, it's that.

Yeah, cause he’s so shrewd.

Not saying that’s the case here, but I absolutely think people have fleeced Trump on one level or another. All you have to do is cater to his ego.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

Feel stupid

 

I’m cool with it.

[kevwun 15,806]

A business deal sure.  Someone selling access to him isn't fooling him though.

Edited May 24, 2018 by kevwun

[jimmyjazz 45,985]

Of course he's been fleeced.  Six bankruptcies combined with a known predilection for screwing over and low-balling vendors on payments tells me so.  He's a terrible businessman.  If he can't fuck over the people to whom he owes money AND still turn a profit, then it's highly likely he's getting fucked over regularly in his "deals".  The man is an idiot.

[dOUblewide 101]

26 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

This is kind of confusing. The White House organization has merit employees. Not all 400 or so employees are appointees. Security issues would fall under the Office of Administration.....i think. 

[Buzzrock 14,926]

I'm sorry, but who is advocating for the denial of due process when it comes to Trump?  If anything, the vast majority of those who want him out of office have done just the opposite:  we've all pretty much said that whatever Mueller finds will be accepted.
My main concern is that if Mueller finds truly nefarious behavior on the part of POTUS that the spineless bastards in Congress won't do anything about it.  That's a different issue.

I’m talking about the people who are stating as indisputable fact that DJ Trump is a serious political criminal. Just like other people did for years about Hillary, despite endless investigations turning up not much.

I think that if Mueller turns up damning evidence of collusion then Trump is gone.

This is a pretty good timeline btw:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-mueller-investigation-one-year/

[brown water 3,778]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

 

So the Deep State approved the clearance?  I'm confused. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by brown water

[Pods 7,586]

17 minutes ago, brown water said:

So the Deep State approved the clearance?  I'm confused. 

The FBI sent their investigative report to the White House. We don't know what it said. The White House decided whether to give him a clearance or not. Approval/rejection is entirely up to Trump's discretion. The FBI letter is trying to make it very clear that this is entirely the White House's decision. Based on the other stuff I know about Kushner, that seems to imply that the FBI doesn't agree with the decision, but doesn't get a vote.  

[jimmyjazz 45,985]

I used to hold a low level security clearance.  The idea of Donald Trump making the call on my qualifications, much less those of his dim son-in-law, is hysterical.

[Jack Burton 35]

36 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I’m talking about the people who are stating as indisputable fact that DJ Trump is a serious political criminal. Just like other people did for years about Hillary, despite endless investigations turning up not much.

I think that if Mueller turns up damning evidence of collusion then Trump is gone.

This is a pretty good timeline btw:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-mueller-investigation-one-year/

 

Well one of those people's allegations always originated on talk radio and spam email, while the other actually committed them and was tracked by the FBI

[brown water 3,778]

15 minutes ago, Pods said:

The FBI sent their investigative report to the White House. We don't know what it said. The White House decided whether to give him a clearance or not. Approval/rejection is entirely up to Trump's discretion. The FBI letter is trying to make it very clear that this is entirely the White House's decision. Based on the other stuff I know about Kushner, that seems to imply that the FBI doesn't agree with the decision, but doesn't get a vote.  

My sarcastic point was how the White House uses "career personnel" to add credibility to Jared's clearance while simultaneously blaming them for undermining trump's legitimacy.  

[dOUblewide 101]

22 minutes ago, Pods said:

The FBI sent their investigative report to the White House. We don't know what it said. The White House decided whether to give him a clearance or not. Approval/rejection is entirely up to Trump's discretion. The FBI letter is trying to make it very clear that this is entirely the White House's decision. Based on the other stuff I know about Kushner, that seems to imply that the FBI doesn't agree with the decision, but doesn't get a vote.  

Yeah.....not really. 

[Pods 7,586]

3 minutes ago, dOUblewide said:

Yeah.....not really. 

Yeah...actually. It's literally in the letter that we are discussing. It's entirely the White House's decision.

"The FBI does not grant, deny or otherwise adjudicate security clearances for individuals on behalf of these clients. As a result, the granting or suspension of Mr. Kushner's clearance would be the responsibility of the client adjudicating agency, in this case the White House."

There's also a shit ton of links on google from when Trump decided to delegate the authority to Kelly in February for a while.  

 

[dOUblewide 101]

Just now, Pods said:

Yeah...actually. It's literally in the letter that we are discussing. It's entirely the White House's decision.

"The FBI does not grant, deny or otherwise adjudicate security clearances for individuals on behalf of these clients. As a result, the granting or suspension of Mr. Kushner's clearance would be the responsibility of the client adjudicating agency, in this case the White House."

There's also a shit ton of links on google from when Trump decided to delegate the authority to Kelly in February for a while.  

 

The "White House" is not DJT. It is an organization that has plenty of career/merit employees that operate outside of POTUS's influence.  

lol

[HtownHorn 14,732]

 

[Biff Tannen 45,692]

Lol Scott Adams.  You gonna quote Alex Jones next?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

I can't believe the FBI is using informants in a criminal investigation. 

[Pods 7,586]

1 hour ago, dOUblewide said:

The "White House" is not DJT. It is an organization that has plenty of career/merit employees that operate outside of POTUS's influence.  

lol

Remind me again who the executive in charge of the executive branch is? Ultimate approval of security clearances for White House staff is up to the President. You've posted nothing to refute this, but your own ignorant opinion. 

As I said in my original response, there are tons of links addressing this, including ones specifically where Trump chose to delegate that authority to Kelly a few months ago. 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+kelly+security+clearance+kushner

 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

 

So the spy in the Trump campaign is a guy who was not in the Trump campaign? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

The Dilbert guy strikes again. 

[dOUblewide 101]

7 hours ago, Pods said:

Remind me again who the executive in charge of the executive branch is? Ultimate approval of security clearances for White House staff is up to the President. You've posted nothing to refute this, but your own ignorant opinion. 

As I said in my original response, there are tons of links addressing this, including ones specifically where Trump chose to delegate that authority to Kelly a few months ago. 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+kelly+security+clearance+kushner

 

At least I've been through the process multiple times....that doesn't mean I know everything about the process. 

It's based on a "whole person" concept to determine trustworthiness and is very subjective. However, there are plenty of interviewers, reviewers, investigators, etc that have rating chains set up to be free from the influence of high ranking merit employees and especially appointees.   

Move on to another conspiracy. 

[HenryJames 66,133]

Scott Adams posts on Surly as Hank Scorpio.

[sheeeit 129]

I have no idea if the Halper stuff is true or not.  If we assume he did approach Page, Papa and Clovis then, imo, it is only a problem if he was either asked to approach them by someone in govt or if he told someone he was going to do it.  If he approached them on his own then i do not see how it could be a problem for the fbi.  If he did work with the fbi then there almost certainly has to be a paper trail.

Also, it would be highly coincidental if the fbi based the start of their investigation on the actions of Page and Papa and Halper reached out to both of them out of the blue with little or no prior connection to them.

9 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I can't believe the FBI is using informants in a criminal investigation. 

The problem with comments like this relates to the timing.  The fbi said it started an investigation in July 2016.  All of the Halper contacts were before that.  Of course the fbi can and does use informants but if they base part of the investigation on the role of the informants then they have to disclose their use of them.  They can not ask an informant to try and get close to trump folks and not consider that the start of the investigation.  There has to be a concrete reason to ask the informant to try and get close.

[Pods 7,586]

5 hours ago, dOUblewide said:

At least I've been through the process multiple times....that doesn't mean I know everything about the process. 

It's based on a "whole person" concept to determine trustworthiness and is very subjective. However, there are plenty of interviewers, reviewers, investigators, etc that have rating chains set up to be free from the influence of high ranking merit employees and especially appointees.   

Move on to another conspiracy. 

Your anecdote doesn't mean shit. Even if you're telling the truth, it's not remotely relevant, because you were not getting a security clearance for a White House job. The idea that the president would have any fucking idea who you even are is ridiculous. Obviously that clearance would be handled by a career official. That's not remotely in dispute and never has been. 

Most clearances are done by career officials. This is not most cases. 

Trump has authority over clearances in the White House. I've provided you multiple links now showing you are wrong. I am not going to google yet more for you. There are hundreds more links on google. You have addressed zero of those.

[Biff Tannen 45,692]

5 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Scott Adams posts on Surly as Hank Scorpio.

No way.  Hank is actually a good schtick.  Adams is a fucking lunatic.

[Pods 7,586]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

No way.  Hank is actually a good schtick.  Adams is a fucking lunatic.

Hank is hilarious. Adams is a real life combo of Dogbert and the pointy-haired boss. 

[Pods 7,586]

This is not okay. The excuse for this meeting was "Congressional Oversight". The President's attorney and Chief of Staff should not have been in this room or had any access to this material. 

This is another societal norm they are stepping all over. We can't let this become the new normal.  

 

[kevwun 15,806]

Fucking Nunes might as well just try to shoot Mueller in public already.  It's the last thing he can try to do to sabotage the investigation.

Edited May 24, 2018 by kevwun

[WhatTheBuck 28,788]

Innocent people don't do that shit. 

[Pods 7,586]

 

[David Dennison 18,926]

18 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Fucking Nunes might as well just try to shoot Mueller in public already.  It's the last thing he can try to do to sabotage the investigation.

There's nothing they can do to sabotage the investigation at this point. It's too far along. It's all politics now. 

[wildcat09 29,355]

6 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Scott Adams posts on Surly as Hank Scorpio.

You shut your mouth. Scorpio is a treasure.

[Pods 7,586]

Just now, David Dennison said:

There's nothing they can do to sabotage the investigation at this point. It's too far along. It's all politics now. 

Yeah there is. They might not be able to stop it, but they can damn sure throw obstacles in it's path and slow it down while they play for time. During that time, they'll be shaping the national narrative using Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Twitter and Facebook. 

[David Dennison 18,926]

2 minutes ago, Pods said:

Yeah there is. They might not be able to stop it, but they can damn sure throw obstacles in it's path and slow it down while they play for time. During that time, they'll be shaping the national narrative using Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Twitter and Facebook. 

That's OK. The left has just as many outlets to frame the national narrative. 

Donald Trump is well and truly fucked.

[retread 2,951]

6 minutes ago, Pods said:

Yeah there is. They might not be able to stop it, but they can damn sure throw obstacles in it's path and slow it down while they play for time. During that time, they'll be shaping the national narrative using Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Twitter and Facebook. 

They may be able to discredit the investigation enough to give the Senate an out if it comes to an impeachment vote (to convict or not).

Edited May 24, 2018 by retread

[Pods 7,586]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That's OK. The left has just as many outlets to frame the national narrative. 

Donald Trump is well and truly fucked.

No it's not OK. None of this is okay and fuck framing the narrative. That's part of the problem. The way to oppose Trump is to tell the whole truth, all of the time. 

[David Dennison 18,926]

Just now, Pods said:

No it's not OK. None of this is okay and fuck framing the narrative. That's part of the problem. The way to oppose Trump is to tell the whole truth, all of the time. 

It's politics. I don't know what else to tell you. You get another crack at him in 2020. The best you can do until then in vote out members of the political party that is protecting him.

[Pods 7,586]

3 minutes ago, retread said:

They may be able to discredit the investigation enough to give the Senate an out if it comes to an impeachment vote (to convict or not).

This is the goal. Trump will pardon everyone else and the Senate won't convict. 

Another goal is to muddy the waters enough that if any states come after Trump and their associates, it'll be seen as a political witch hunt for an issue that should be settled already due to the pardons. 

Whether they work or not is up to us. So far, they are working. Look at the recent polling though since Rudy went on the attack. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Pods

[David Dennison 18,926]

Just now, Pods said:

This is the goal. Trump will pardon everyone else and the Senate won't convict. 

Another goal is to muddy the waters enough that if any states come after Trump and their associates, it'll be seen as a political witch hunt for an issue that should be settled already due to the pardons. 

Whether they work or not is up to us. So far, they are working. Look at the recent polling though since Rudy went on the attack. 

If it's working, it means they are better at politics than Democrats. No shock there. Republicans know that politics is blood sport. Democrats want it to be civilized. 

[Pods 7,586]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's politics. I don't know what else to tell you. You get another crack at him in 2020. The best you can do until then in vote out members of the political party that is protecting him.

This is not politics, it's Banana Republic bullshit. Don't attempt to normalize what is happening. This is not normal. 

[David Dennison 18,926]

2 minutes ago, Pods said:

This is not politics, it's Banana Republic bullshit. Don't attempt to normalize what is happening. This is not normal. 

Of course it isn't normal. There's also not much we can do about it until the next election. 

I share your frustration.

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Our government is only as good as the people that elect them.

No one to blame but ourselves.

[Pods 7,586]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Of course it isn't normal. There's also not much we can do about it until the next election. 

I share your frustration.

 

 

No, you don't share my frustration. You've been pretty open about looking forward to as extreme as possible of a progressive backlash on a variety of issues. As much as you don't like the results of these procedures Trump is creating, you look forward to using the tools Trump is creating for your own side. 

Moderates like me are going to be fucked twice when that happens. 

Talk and expose it and don't normalize the behavior. Make sure your friends and family know it's a national security election and make sure they vote. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Pods

[Lurch 5,931]

Our government is only as good as the people that elect them.
No one to blame but ourselves.

And the Russians.

[David Dennison 18,926]

Just now, Pods said:

No, you don't share my frustration. You've been pretty open about looking forward to as extreme as possible of a progressive backlash on a variety of issues. As much as you don't like the results of these procedures Trump is creating, you look forward to using the tools Trump is creating for your own side. 

Moderates like me are going to be fucked twice when that happens. 

That's not my concern. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Just now, Pods said:

Moderates like me are going to be fucked twice when that happens. 

This is why polarization is the biggest threat to America