The Robert Mueller Investigation

[David Dennison 18652]

Just now, Anastasis said:

FIFY

Please point out in the IG report where he concludes that but for those misstatements, errors, and omissions, probable cause would not have been sufficient to issue a warrant against Carter Page.

[Anastasis 23393]

50 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

trumplican talking points. 

The funny thing here is that the ones evoking the spirit of trumpkin talking points are you guys.

Deflection

Ad hominem

Argument by assertion

Red Herring

Strawman

Traitorous critic fallacy

on, and on, and on.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Anastasis

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

On 12/9/2019 at 1:50 PM, GW Hayduke said:

Here are excerpts of every single finding on political bias in the Executive Summary:

• Page III. On Opening the Main Investigation.

“We concluded that Priestap's exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision.”

• Page IV. On Opening Four Individual Investigations of Page, Manafort, Papadapoulous and Flynn.

“We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations.”

• Page VI. On FISA of Carter Page

“We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the FBI's decision to seek FISA authority on Carter Page.”

• Page XVII. On Usage of Confidential Human Sources and Undercover Employees.

“Finally, we also found no documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivations influenced the FBI's decision to use CHSs or UCEs to interact with Trump campaign officials in the Crossfire Hurricane investigation.”

And a Bonus on Page II. On Steele Dossier playing no role whatever in the Predication of the Investigation

“These officials, though, did not become aware of Steele's election reporting until weeks laterand we therefore determined that Steele's reports played no role in the Crossfire Hurricane opening.”

*sigh*

[Anastasis 23393]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Please point out in the IG report where he concludes that but for those misstatements, errors, and omissions, probable cause would not have been sufficient to issue a warrant against Carter Page.

Still mudding around in that ditch?

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

The funny think here is that the ones evoking the spirit of trumpkin talking points are you guys.

Deflection

Ad hominem

Argument by assertion

Red Herring

Strawman

Traitorous critic fallacy

on, and on, and on.

Every accusation is a confession.

Yep you’re a trump supporter. Just admit it and we can all hopefully try to move on. 

[David Dennison 18652]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Still mudding around in that ditch?

Can't find it, can you? 

Conclusion: the FBI had probable cause to get a warrant against Carter Page without the obfuscation or exaggeration. That's kind of important.

[Anastasis 23393]

 

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Can't find it, can you? 

Conclusion: the FBI had probable cause to get a warrant against Carter Page without the obfuscation or exaggeration. That's kind of important.

Except that is a fantasy. Or, surely, you can quote the section of the report that this conclusion is based on? I have quoted quite a bit directly from the report to justify my positions.  Maybe you can muster us one to support yours?

Edited December 14, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23393]

7 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Every accusation is a confession.

Yep you’re a trump supporter. Just admit it and we can all hopefully try to move on. 

Bot-ish to strongly bot-ish. 

 

Wonder how hard it would be to script a JimmyDS2 bot.  I think that you would have to try extra hard to implement the "embarrass myself" do loop. 

[David Dennison 18652]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Except that is a fantasy. Or, surely, you can quote the section of the report that this conclusion is based on? I have quoted quite a bit directly from the report to justify my positions.  Maybe you can muster us one to support yours?

I'm making that conclusion based on the fact that the IG did not find that there was not sufficient probable cause to issue a warrant against Carter Page. 

[Anastasis 23393]

Now the DD bot would be a pretty straightforward implementation. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Bot-ish to strongly bot-ish. 

 

Wonder how hard it would be to script a JimmyDS2 bot.  I think that you would have to try extra hard to implement the "embarrass myself" do loop. 

Which on your list above would this post fall under? 

[David Dennison 18652]

Concern troll is concerned.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Can we all just agree that Carter Page is the most innocent man in America and move on? 

[Anastasis 23393]

17 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Can we all just agree that Carter Page is the most innocent man in America and move on? 

Carter page is a total dipshit who has a hard time not drooling on himself for any period of time. Which every poster here should have been capable of assessing after 1 minute of watching him on TV. But a lot of people were willing to turn off their brains and buy into a fantastical conspiracy narrative where he was the lynch pin of the international conspiracy.  Because Orange Man. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Carter page is a total dipshit who has a hard time not drooling on himself for any period of time. Which every poster here should have been capable of assessing after 1 minute of watching him on TV. But a lot of people were willing to turn off their brains and buy into a fantastical conspiracy narrative where he was the lynch pin of the international conspiracy.  Because Orange Man. 

Orange Man is pretty bad though. 

[Continental Op 3934]

*sigh*

Well no I mean show me something other than all of the places in the report where it says the warrants weren't improper!

[David Dennison 18652]

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Carter page is a total dipshit who has a hard time not drooling on himself for any period of time. Which every poster here should have been capable of assessing after 1 minute of watching him on TV. But a lot of people were willing to turn off their brains and buy into a fantastical conspiracy narrative where he was the lynch pin of the international conspiracy.  Because Orange Man. 

The president of the United States willingly accepted interference from a foreign nation to help him win the 2016 election. In fact, he asked them to interfere at a press conference. 

So they did. The rest is history.

 

[triplehorn 2664]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The president of the United States willingly accepted interference from a foreign nation to help him win the 2016 election. In fact, he asked them to interfere at a press conference. 

So they did. The rest is history.

 

And Trump actively and willfully coordinated with Roger Stone around the rollout of goods delivered by Russian military intelligence.  

Gates testified in the Stone trial that he witnessed this by Trump in real time.

[Anastasis 23393]

I think that the story arc of the discussion post Mueller and now post OIG report is pretty enlightening.  Many of the same posters who were so worked up, and rightfully so, about the rhetorical deflection devices used by actual trumpkins to avoid making common sense conclusions regarding Vol II of the Mueller report, are now using the exact same devices to avoid admitting to the common sense conclusions regarding the findings of the OIG report.
 

"Mueller didn't draw a conclusion on obstruction of justice, therefor it did not occur!!!"/"OIG did not speculate on the impact of falsification, errors, omissions and misstatements by the FBI on the sufficiency of probable cause, therefor he determined that the FBI established probable cause to get a warrant against Carter Page without obfuscation or exaggerationt!!!".

Both despite a long and detailed reporting of the actual malfeasance involved, more than sufficient to let any intellectually honest reader draw their own conclusions.   

Edited December 14, 2019 by Anastasis

[GW Hayduke 1952]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that the story arc of the discussion post Mueller and now post OIG report is pretty enlightening.  Many of the same posters who were so worked up, and rightfully so, about the rhetorical deflection devices used by actual trumpkins to avoid making common sense conclusions regarding Vol II of the Mueller report, are now using the exact same devices to avoid admitting to the common sense conclusions regarding the findings of the OIG report.
 

"Mueller didn't draw a conclusion on obstruction of justice, therefor it did not occur!!!"/"OIG did not speculate on the impact of falsification, errors, omissions and misstatements by the FBI on the sufficiency of probable cause, therefor he determined that the FBI established probable cause to get a warrant against Carter Page without obfuscation or exaggerationt!!!".

Both despite a long and detailed reporting of the actual malfeasance involved, more than sufficient to let any intellectually honest reader draw their own conclusions.   

The problem is that the entire right-side of the political spectrum is blowing this up. It is support for various Trump talking points like 1) the fbi is crooked, 2) it was a with hunt, 3) deep state something, 4) this is evidence of political bias, 4) or that it somehow has any influence on what we know.

Nothing in the IG report impacted the Mueller Report or his findings, the numerous indictments under the Russia investigation or our knowledge of the trump tower meeting, Stone’s work with Wikileaks, the Moscow Tower project, the 100+ contacts between Russia and the campaign, or Manafort providing internal polling info to the Russians. 

The bottomline is that the inappropriate conduct related to Page is unfortunate and should be addressed but is inconsequential to what we know about the campaign’s coordination with Russia.

Edited December 14, 2019 by GW Hayduke

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

Consort with foreign spies and you should expect to be surveiled by the FBI. How hard is that to understand? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

The problem is that the entire right-side of the political spectrum is blowing this up. It is support for various Trump talking points like 1) the fbi is crooked, 2) it was a with hunt, 3) deep state something, 4) this is evidence of political bias, 4) or that it somehow has any influence on what we know.

Nothing in the IG report impacted the Mueller Report or his findings, the numerous indictments under the Russia investigation or our knowledge of the trump tower meeting, Stone’s work with Wikileaks, the Moscow Tower project, the 100+ contacts between Russia and the campaign, or Manafort providing internal polling info to the Russians. 

The bottomline is that the inappropriate conduct related to Page is unfortunate and should be addressed but is inconsequential to what we know about the campaign’s coordination with Russia.

Yeah that may all be true but you’re forgetting that FISA warrant procedures are clearly what’s most important here and the greatest threat to American democracy since the civil war. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by JimmyJames

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, David Dennison said:

The president of the United States willingly accepted interference from a foreign nation to help him win the 2016 election. In fact, he asked them to interfere at a press conference. 

So they did. The rest is history.

 

Yep. Anastasis and team trump crew will either totally ignore this, yet again, or will claim he was “joking.”

I guess if you commit crimes in public and in plain sight it’s not really a crime if you’re a Republican with Republican type jurors. 

I cannot wait until the party is such a minority it completely flames out. That’s why it is currently hell bent on destroying democracy. They have no choice if they want the gravy train to continue. 

But some people are more focused on other more important things, like their chicken pot pie is too cold or FISA warrants. 

[Anastasis 23393]

35 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Consort with foreign spies and you should expect to be surveiled by the FBI. How hard is that to understand? 

Consort with foreign spies while working with the CIA as an asset and you should expect to be surveiled by the FBI while they falsify the surveillance applications specifically to avoid disclosing that fact to the court.  And further, you should expect that political opposition research, crafted by foreign intelligence operatives, funded with political motivation, with no corroboration, and overstatement of the track record of the CHS, and failure to update applications when new shits comes to light and it is all determined to be bullshit, will be deployed in the course of the most intrusive surveillance of an American citizen. And nobody should point out the problems with all of this because Orange Man Really Bad.    

I mean, pretty easy to understand in fact. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

The problem is that the entire right-side of the political spectrum is blowing this up. It is support for various Trump talking points like 1) the fbi is crooked, 2) it was a with hunt, 3) deep state something, 4) this is evidence of political bias, 4) or that it somehow has any influence on what we know.

 

The problem with this is that it supports talking points for people I don't like.

 

How about instead the problem with this is that it reflects the systematic abuse of an unconstitutional surveillance state in a political context. One that will exist long after the Orange Man is in the grave unless we take steps when we have a window of opportunity to shine light on the potential for problems that some people have been talking about for almost 2 decades.  

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

The problem is that the entire right-side of the political spectrum is blowing this up.

I also note that you don't appear to disagree with my description of the arc.  The quoted being only a further example of the similarities. 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

12 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I also note that you don't appear to disagree with my description of the arc.  The quoted being only a further example of the similarities. 

Except for the question of magnitude. On one side, we had a potus attempting to stop/interfere with the investigation into russian attack on our election to aid that potus. On the other side, something inconsequential - some inappropriate activities by investigators to get a warrant that led to nothing. 

Its the classic mountain vs. molehill.  This is why the chicken meme is so funny.  We are wondering why you keep chasing it?

Edited December 15, 2019 by GW Hayduke

[wildcat09 29225]

17 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that the story arc of the discussion post Mueller and now post OIG report is pretty enlightening.  Many of the same posters who were so worked up, and rightfully so, about the rhetorical deflection devices used by actual trumpkins to avoid making common sense conclusions regarding Vol II of the Mueller report, are now using the exact same devices to avoid admitting to the common sense conclusions regarding the findings of the OIG report.
 

"Mueller didn't draw a conclusion on obstruction of justice, therefor it did not occur!!!"/"OIG did not speculate on the impact of falsification, errors, omissions and misstatements by the FBI on the sufficiency of probable cause, therefor he determined that the FBI established probable cause to get a warrant against Carter Page without obfuscation or exaggerationt!!!".

Both despite a long and detailed reporting of the actual malfeasance involved, more than sufficient to let any intellectually honest reader draw their own conclusions.   

This is your best bothsides yet. Truly a great work of art, dare I say a masterpiece.

[JimmyJames 12271]

He is easily one of our most talented trolls. 

[Anastasis 23393]

56 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

On one side, we had a potus attempting to stop/interfere with the investigation into russian attack on our election to aid that potus. On the other side, something inconsequential - some inappropriate activities by investigators to get a warrant that led to nothing. 

Its the classic mountain vs. molehill.  This is why the chicken meme is so funny.  We are wondering why you keep chasing it?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Christopher Steele.

Steele who?

Steele gonna keep fucking that chicken. 

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

This is your best bothsides yet. Truly a great work of art, dare I say a masterpiece.

I am glad that you appreciate it.  As far as masterpieces, I guess art takes a community.

Personally, I don't think it even achieves second tier status unless it is set to a sound track.

  

On 4/25/2019 at 10:05 AM, Anastasis said:

Let's restate.

Opposition research conducted by a foreign intelligence operative and funded by a political entity was transmitted to the FBI through a back channel network that involved individuals in the FBI with conflicts of interest and individuals tied to the State Department. This work product was based on intel from Russian sources, providing a mix of disinformation and plausible content. That work product was used without verification by the FBI to bolster FISA application(s) for surveillance of at least one US citizen with a connection to another political entity. According to Woodward, another component of the intelligence community tried to have content from that work product inserted into the IC assessment of Russian interference. In time the FBI  attempted but was unable to verify the material, and found the sources to be unreliable. At the same time that the sources were being determined unreliable, yet another individual associated with yet another component of the intelligence community was spreading knowledge of the content of unverified opposition research among journalists, and orchestrating a series of events which included the reluctant participation of the Director of the FBI to provide cover for the public release of that material. This served to pour gasoline on a fire intended to undermine the legitimacy of a democratically elected US President. 

You guys don't care about any of this, cause Trump.  I get it. I do care.  Not because of Trump, but because I have consistent concerns about abuses within the US intelligence community both here and abroad.  Please keep this post at top of mind when the IG report is issued in May/June timeframe so that we can come back to it. 

  

On 4/25/2019 at 10:13 AM, DDD Dad said:

LOUD NOISES!

 

On 4/25/2019 at 10:20 AM, Anastasis said:

 

 

On 4/25/2019 at 10:21 AM, wildcat09 said:

No, you don't care. In fact, you know that a lot of what you just mentioned was fully appropriate and justified or benign. You know that Steele himself presented the dossier as unverified raw intelligence. You know that the FISA application presented the dossier as unverified raw intelligence.

What you DO care about is constantly redirecting all negative focus back to the Democrats, and because Trump makes that very hard, you try to dress up some bullshit in, as jimmyjazz said, a cloak of legitimacy. All you are is a more sophisticated texashammer.

           

On 4/25/2019 at 10:22 AM, Dahobbs said:

I dont care about it because it is bullshit. The intelligence community should have always been investigating the issue. FISA warrants were granted before the dossier existed. I frankly dont even know what "back channels" means in this context.

  

On 4/25/2019 at 10:45 AM, Anastasis said:

So now I dwell just to say you're plainer
Hold your cup, cause I got the container
Pass a plate or, cross the fader
Black Sheep get play like the Sony Innovator
Never the traitor, party inflater
And you can get a scoop ... later

 

On 4/25/2019 at 12:23 PM, Pig Bellmont said:

That is the stupidest bunch of bullshit I think I’ve heard. Next Anastasis will be telling us to bookmark posts about pizzagate. 

 

On 4/25/2019 at 12:35 PM, Longhorn94 said:

you dont understand. DEEP STATE! BOTH SIDES! - Anastasis.

 

On 4/25/2019 at 12:36 PM, Anastasis said:

Where's the black sheep, here's the black sheep
Even if we wanted to, the flock could not be weak
Watch me swing like this, why should I swing it like that
Because in fact, on me it might not attract
Therefore I ignore, do as I feel inside
I live with me, I've got my back tonight
Ya know what I'm saying
Yo Black, I'm not playing

 

On 4/25/2019 at 12:38 PM, Longhorn94 said:

#BOTHSIDES! DEEP STATE!!!!! Tear it all down! except the Republicans and Trump. just the dems did bad stuff. not the republians. see the DEEP STATE and LAW ENFORCEMENT favor democrats! everyone is talking about it. DEEP STATE and FBI, those dirty bastards, hate Republicans! #BOTHSIDES!!!!!!

 

good lord man....

 

On 4/25/2019 at 1:01 PM, GW Hayduke said:

Everyone knew the Steele reports were raw intelligence, which are just rumors from unverified sources. It was intended to point federal investigators and investigative journalists in various directions to investigate and corroborate. That is what it did.

Much of the Steele reports has turned out accurate:

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anastasis

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[zork 629]

What was Comey blathering about today with an apology to Horowitz or something? @Anastasis

[Anastasis 23393]

6 hours ago, zork said:

What was Comey blathering about today with an apology to Horowitz or something? @Anastasis

Don’t know.  Didn’t watch. Hopefully he was pledging to crawl into a hole in the ground and never come out again. As much histrionics as the ledge dwellers want to perform about the rule of law, the reality is that the FBI, the supposedly preeminent law enforcement agency in this country, and Jim Comey in particular, was central to influencing the outcome and aftermath of the 2016 election. But Russia!!

[Hornius Emeritus 12416]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Don’t know.  Didn’t watch. Hopefully he was pledging to crawl into a hole in the ground and never come out again. As much histrionics as the ledge dwellers want to perform about the rule of law, the reality is that the FBI, the supposedly preeminent law enforcement agency in this country, and Jim Comey in particular, was central to influencing the outcome and aftermath of the 2016 election. But Russia!!

I don't think the FBI wanted to  or intended to influence the outcome.  And when you say FBI I think you really mean Comey.  I'm already on record as saying he had no good choice when it was dropped in his lap so late in the game.

[Anastasis 23393]

1 minute ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

I don't think the FBI wanted to  or intended to influence the outcome.  And when you say FBI I think you really mean Comey.  I'm already on record as saying he had no good choice when it was dropped in his lap so late in the game.

Agree. Yes, I am taking some liberty by generalizing to the FBI the actions of their Director. Maybe he had no good choices.  Or maybe the good choice is to follow the fn SOPs. Either way, the reality is that the actions of the leadership of the FBI played a significant role in influencing the outcome of the 2016 election, as well as the public perception during 2017 and beyond.  This should not be acceptable to anyone unless you love the J Edgar Hoover era where the FBI was knee deep in domestic political affairs. Jim Comey should go down in history as the second worst Director in FBI history. He really has no other challenger. 

[Anastasis 23393]

Ouch.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/multiple-levels-of-hearsay-upon-hearsay-11576439564

‘Multiple Levels of Hearsay Upon Hearsay’

 

Most news coverage of the Horowitz report has minimized or ignored its most devastating aspects. Granted, the inspector general’s account doesn’t make for easy reading. It’s repetitive to a fault, and its insistent use of vague identifiers—“Case Agent 1,” “Supervisory Intel Analyst,” “Primary Sub-source”—rather than names makes its narrative insistently soporific.

Then again, many journalists seem determined not to explain how the report vitiates the “Steele dossier” and discredits its author, Christopher Steele, a former British spy who peddled third-hand hearsay to gullible paymasters at both the opposition-research firm Fusion GPS and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. With a few exceptions, journalists have eagerly embraced former FBI Director James Comey and former Deputy Director Andrew McCabe as guardians of democracy rather than culpable apologists for dire threats to Americans’ civil liberties.

Every American who cares about civil liberties should peruse at least pages 186-93, wherein the inspector general’s staff shreds the Steele dossier piece by piece and indicts the bureau’s reliance on visibly shoddy work that any unbiased intelligence professional would have quickly discarded.

Mr. Steele confessed in a 2016 FBI interview that one of his top two sources was a “boaster” and “egotist” who “may engage in some embellishment” (page 110). Mr. Steele had asserted to interviewing agents that this person—whom he variously called “Source D,” “Source E,” a Trump “associate” and “Person 1”; we’ll go with P1 for short—was the source for both the dossier’s most salacious claims about Donald Trump and the information on which the FBI relied to obtain a warrant to spy on former campaign aide Carter Page.

Yet Mr. Steele’s “Primary Sub-source”—we’ll abbreviate that to PSS—contradicted those claims, telling the FBI that P1 didn’t furnish any salacious information. Mr. Steele claimed that PSS and P1 had met two or three times, but PSS said their only contact was a single 10- to 15-minute phone conversation.

Three FBI interviews of PSS in the first half of 2017 impeached Mr. Steele’s reporting—even as the bureau was petitioning the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to keep extending its pointless electronic surveillance of poor Mr. Page. “Steele himself was not the originating source of any of the factual information in his reporting,” the inspector general notes (page 186). The FBI’s conversations with PSS “raised significant questions” and “doubts about the reliability of Steele’s descriptions of information” that formed the basis for the ongoing surveillance of Mr. Page (186-87). PSS asserted, in the inspector general’s words, “that Steele misstated or exaggerated [PSS’s] statements in multiple sections of the reporting” (187). The salacious claims about Mr. Trump were “rumor and speculation,” offered in “jest.” What PSS had passed along to Steele “was just talk,” “word of mouth and hearsay” that PSS had acquired from “friends over beers” and which should be taken with “a grain of salt” (187-88).

Further, PSS’s statements to the FBI “revealed that Steele did not have good insight into how many degrees of separation existed between [PSS’s] sub-sources and the persons quoted in the reporting, and that it could have been multiple levels of hearsay upon hearsay,” given that the “sub-sources did not have direct access to the persons they were reporting on” (188). In late 2016, when Mr. Steele pressed PSS to corroborate the reports Mr. Steele already had distributed, PSS found “zero,” PSS told the FBI (188). By February 2017 the FBI was tardily realizing that Mr. Steele “may not be in a position to judge the reliability of his sub-source network” (188). Yet the falsely predicated surveillance of Mr. Page continued.

As agents kept probing, the truth got worse and worse. “In Steele’s September 2017 interview with the FBI, Steele also made statements that conflicted with explanations from two of his sub-sources about their access to Russian officials. For example, Steele explained that the Primary Sub-source had direct access to a particular former senior Russian government official and that they had been ‘speaking for a while.’ [PSS] told the FBI, however, that he/she had never met or spoken with the official” (192). Ouch.

Prior to the 2016 campaign, Mr. Steele had already received $95,000 from the FBI as a paid human informant reporting on Russian oligarchs. A comprehensive early 2017 review of Mr. Steele’s prior work found that it was only “minimally corroborated,” contrary to how the FBI had repeatedly vouched for their well-paid source to the FISA court (184).

The inspector general also impeaches Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson. On Nov. 14, 2017, he testified to the House Intelligence Committee that he had not met with top Justice Department attorney Bruce Ohr before the 2016 election. But the Horowitz report documents how Mr. Simpson had met with Mr. Ohr on Aug. 22, 2016, to give him the names of three supposed Russia-Trump intermediaries, one of whom was Mr. Steele’s P1.

The inspector general forcefully concludes that Mr. Steele’s shoddy reporting “played a central and essential role in the decision” by FBI and Justice Department lawyers to approve headquarters’ officials request to surveil Mr. Page (359). The report also extensively details how “Source 2”—about whom enough clues are given to identify him as longtime paid FBI informant Stefan Halper —repeatedly wore a wire while pretending to befriend Mr. Page, fellow Trump volunteer George Papadopoulos, and Trump campaign official Sam Clovis —all at the FBI’s express behest.

Mr. Horowitz seems nonplussed that such intrusive electronic surveillance of American citizens required no approval from a judge or even Justice Department headquarters. But his report is oddly and totally silent about how the FBI also deployed “UCEs”—undercover government employees—against both Messrs. Papadopoulos and Page. Mr. Papadopoulos has publicly detailed how one UCE, a flirtatious woman posing as Mr. Halper’s assistant and using the pseudonym “Azra Turk, ” sought to befriend him. But for undisclosed reasons the inspector general has nothing to say about this further abuse of unchecked FBI targeting of American citizens.

The Horowitz report is a document of landmark historical importance, but more questions remain.

Mr. Garrow’s books include “The FBI and Martin Luther King, Jr. ,” “Bearing the Cross” and “Rising Star: The Making of Barack Obama. ”

[wildcat09 29225]

Hearsay in a warrant application?! How outrageous!

[Jhawkmvp 1489]

Hey I have not checked out this thread for awhile...

[Captainant 27442]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Ouch.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/multiple-levels-of-hearsay-upon-hearsay-11576439564

‘Multiple Levels of Hearsay Upon Hearsay’

 

 

 

You're posting an op-ed my dude lol. There's some, uh, editorializing in there. But your persistent use of trump/gop talking points is duly noted. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

Anastasis reminds me of Blithe in Band of Brothers. Hiding in a ditch of FISA terror because he doesn’t realize he’s already dead. 

[Anastasis 23393]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're posting an op-ed my dude lol. There's some, uh, editorializing in there. 

I did not present it as anything other. 

Which brings me around to another point from the OIG report that you in particular might be interested in. 

Hopefully you have not only distanced yourself from dossier delusions at this point, but all server paint huffing.

259 Steele separately wrote in Report 112, dated September 14, 2016, that Alfa Bank allegedly had close ties to Putin. The Crossfire Hurricane team received Report 112 on or about November 6, 2016, from a Mother Jones journalist through then FBI General Counsel James Baker. Additionally, Ohr advised the FBI on November 21, 2016, according to an FBI FD-302, that Steele had told Ohr that the Alfa Bank server was a link to the Trump campaign and that Person 1 's Russia/American organization in the U.S. had used the Alfa Bank server two weeks prior. Steele told us that the information about Alfa Bank was not generated by Orbis. The FBI investigated whether there were cyber links between the Trump Organization and Alfa Bank, but had concluded by early February 2017 that there were no such links. The Supervisory Intel Analyst told us that he factored the Alfa Bank/Trump server allegations into his assessment of Steele's reporting.

 

[Anastasis 23393]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Hearsay in a warrant application?! How outrageous!

Oh good. The part where the Surly Lawyer Brigade tells us once again how stacking hearsay upon hearsay, errors, omissions, misstatements, and outright fraudulent behavior, pivotal to establishing probable cause, is totally cool and totally legal.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Don’t know.  Didn’t watch. Hopefully he was pledging to crawl into a hole in the ground and never come out again. As much histrionics as the ledge dwellers want to perform about the rule of law, the reality is that the FBI, the supposedly preeminent law enforcement agency in this country, and Jim Comey in particular, was central to influencing the outcome and aftermath of the 2016 election. But Russia!!

You're insane.

[Anastasis 23393]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're insane.

Maybe you prefer the live version.  I know I do.

 

[Anastasis 23393]

57 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're posting an op-ed my dude lol. There's some, uh, editorializing in there.

Back to this for a sec.  It's amazing that you are more critical of me quoting an opinion piece on an internet discussion board than you are of the FBI quoting one in a FISA application.  I mean, you do recall that they literally quoted a WaPo opinion piece as they were building their probable cause case, right? 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Anastasis

[triplehorn 2664]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Back to this for a sec.  It's amazing that you are more critical of me quoting an opinion piece on an internet discussion board than you are of the FBI quoting one in a FISA application.  I mean, you do recall that they literally quoted a WaPo opinion piece as they were building their probable cause case, right? 

so what you're saying is, Captainant is a more discriminating judge than one sitting on the FISC.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

Maybe you prefer the live version.  I know I do.

Nah.  I mean you're literally disconnected.  I know, "projection".  It's your fallback position.

You have fucking lost it.   

Best of luck.

[Anastasis 23393]

Just now, triplehorn said:

so what you're saying is, Captainant is a more discriminating judge than one sitting on the FISC.

Definitely more discriminating that the FBI agents responsible for the filling. Which appears to be a pretty low bar.

 

You guys keep trying to push this off on the court.  But the FBI has a heightened responsibility to the FISC, by virtue of the nature of the proceedings.  

[Anastasis 23393]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Nah.  I mean you're literally disconnected.  I know, "projection".  It's your fallback position.

You have fucking lost it.   

Best of luck.

Far from insane.  But my training and exposure to serious mental illness has more than equipped me adequately for the cloak room. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Anastasis