The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

According to the filing it doesn’t appear to be Cohen that was being tampered but that doesn’t mean Manafort wasn’t trying to back channel Trump through Cohen or Trump to Manafort through Cohen.  The latter seems most plausible.

[Chooky 13317]

"Up and down and speedin' all over."

[triplehorn 2664]

All the royal bluster and omnipotence over crime and punishment makes a lot more sense now.  He's coming unglued.

[TedStriker 24]

5 minutes ago, Chooky said:

"Up and down and speedin' all over."

Punitive damages!  Sue everybody

[Skyline 325]

Tooooootally normal. 

[triplehorn 2664]

Good thread on the Mueller filing today on Manafort :

 

 

 

[Chad Fuck 17687]

Tooooootally normal. 

Soon there will be a parade of fools asking for pardons via Fox. And none of the viewers will ask themselves, “Hmm, what do all these people need pardons FOR?”

[Biff Tannen 45692]

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

Soon there will be a parade of fools asking for pardons via Fox. And none of the viewers will ask themselves, “Hmm, what do all these people need pardons FOR?”

 

They won't care what the pardons could be for.  Because her emails.  And he was black.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

Not too many of our criminal practitioners venture in here, but I am curious as to how witnesses get handled. In civil cases, employee witnesses and those aligned with a party get prepped and massaged to death and deposed by the opposition. Third party witnesses get deposed and maybe massaged a bit by one side or the other. So you have a pretty good idea of what they are gonna say and that testimony is well rehearsed. 

 

Criminal cases on the other hand tend to be trial by ambush. But where the budget permits, at least an investigator talks to all the known non-cop witnesses.  Of course the client himself should not be talking to witnesses. 

How would this work in a case like Manafort's, where there are ostensibly a number of third party, ie non-"cop" witnesses?  Government gets carte blanche to massage them and Defendant pounds sand? 

[Skyline 325]

31 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

Soon there will be a parade of fools asking for pardons via Fox. And none of the viewers will ask themselves, “Hmm, what do all these people need pardons FOR?”

 

Isn't there already a parade asking for pardons? They know how to get his attention, and Trump is already considering at least a dozen pardons just because he can. Some are private, and some go on Fox News. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Skyline

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, Skyline said:

Tooooootally normal. 

I am a little more impressed with Papa Dop seeing that he was somehow able to tap that. 

[triplehorn 2664]

Re: "Manafort called, texted and sent encrypted messages to two people in February to 'influence their testimony and to otherwise conceal evidence' - FBI statement filed by Mueller" 

Anyone linked to the Mueller investigation who felt secure w encrypted comms is shitting a little tonight.  Heads they were cracked, tails handed over.

[RayDog 682]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am a little more impressed with Papa Dop seeing that he was somehow able to tap that. 

And Trump says, It's good to be the King.

[RayDog 682]

Just read on Daily Kos (I know) the latest filings in Manafort. The writer brought up that one of his daughters claims that Manafort was in some way partly responsible for the Maiden Square murders.

This opens up the possibility that if Trump were to pardon him Manafort could be sent to Ukraine to face justice there. Or, he could face other charges.

Edited June 5, 2018 by RayDog

[Anastasis 23478]

Gates is one of the two.

[GopherRock 1765]

So when is the new bail hearing?

[atomheartbevo 89735]

 

NO COLLUSION. SO MANY LIVES RUINED!  

Edited June 5, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Wouldn't the Manafort news imply that at least someone else is cooperating with Mueller?  

As far as the Sessions situation, could you imagine having a boss that publicly announces in dept meetings that he regrets hiring you?  Is he staying around because God is telling him to do so, or only to spite Trump?  For the latter, Sessions is indirectly helping the Mueller investigation.  If Sessions resigns and Pruitt takes over as AG, Mueller would be gone within hours.

[Chad Fuck 17687]

Look away! Over there! Nothing to see here!

[Jive Turkey 12622]

Yes. The only reason this investigation is happening is because of Jeff Sessions.  Not because of the actual collusion but the fact you picked a supposed loyalist who actually put his legal ethics ahead of your desires.

Damnit Dotard. Don’t make me feel even one ounce of sympathy for that little weasel. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[atomheartbevo 89735]

11 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wouldn't the Manafort news imply that at least someone else is cooperating with Mueller?  

As far as the Sessions situation, could you imagine having a boss that publicly announces in dept meetings that he regrets hiring you?  Is he staying around because God is telling him to do so, or only to spite Trump?  For the latter, Sessions is indirectly helping the Mueller investigation.  If Sessions resigns and Pruitt takes over as AG, Mueller would be gone within hours.

I think Sessions is sticking around to spite Trump. 

Jefferson Beauregard Sessions VII strikes me as one of those proud Southern lawyer/prosecutor/Senator types who does not appreciate a liberal from New York shitting all over him, both publicly and privately. 

Especially when Sessions was basically the first well-known Senator to risk his reputation in order to support Trump early on. And this is how Trump repays him. 

Trump is accustomed to using and disposing of people when they are of no longer use to him. Sessions does not believe himself to be disposable. 

[Biff Tannen 45692]

I think he's the mole.

[Goredho 17412]

17 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Yes. The only reason this investigation is happening is because of Jeff Sessions.  Not because of the actual collusion but the fact you picked a supposed loyalist who actually put his legal ethics ahead of your desires.

Damnit Dotard. Don’t make me feel even one ounce of sympathy for that little weasel. 

I have a feeling that Sessions’ act to recuse himself and to stay on the job will prove to be a significant act of political heroism when all is said and done.  If he says “fuckit, I’m out” — and man he HAS to want to —  then the dominoes fall such that American democracy and the rule of law become a complete sham.  Sessions would be replaced by a hatchet man to get rid of Rosenstein.  Rosenstein would be replaced by a fixer to get rid of Mueller and make the special investigation go away.  There would be a review, conducted by more thoroughly vetted loyalists, that would side with Trump and “prove” it was all a #WITCHHUNT.  He’d use that “exoneration” as justification for his new appointees to conduct a sweeping purge of members of the “deep state” in the justice department.  That is to say, a purge of anyone who is not an absolute loyalist to Trump.  With this only currently-being-exercised check on his authority removed, Trump would be free to really #MAGA shit up.

Sometime’s there’s a man, who... well... he’s the man for his time and place...

[kevwun 15806]

It's the least he can do as penance for helping Trump get elected.  I have no sympathy for Sessions in any of this.  He volunteered for it because he wanted more power.

Edited June 5, 2018 by kevwun

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Wouldn't the Manafort news imply that at least someone else is cooperating with Mueller?  

As far as the Sessions situation, could you imagine having a boss that publicly announces in dept meetings that he regrets hiring you?  Is he staying around because God is telling him to do so, or only to spite Trump?  For the latter, Sessions is indirectly helping the Mueller investigation.  If Sessions resigns and Pruitt takes over as AG, Mueller would be gone within hours.

You are humanizing Trump. He has no human qualities. Usually someone's boss is also a mentor and so a boss' hiring regret would hit hard. I would doubt that Sessions has any respect at all for Trump's intellect or opinion of him. Sessions, like most other GOP hangers on probably saw Trump as a tool and cover that they could use to ram through some of the more distasteful parts of the GOP agenda. They were caught by surprise when he was able to take over their party outright. 

[Anastasis 23478]

Wasn't Dotard, Gates or Cohen...

 

FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller's motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from "The Hapsburg Group," a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.

 

From wapo back in Feb: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/24/after-hapsburg-group-disclosure-in-mueller-indictment-former-european-politicians-come-under-scrutiny

[Pods 7586]

20 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Wasn't Dotard, Gates or Cohen...

 

FBI Special Agent Brock Domin, in a declaration filed with Mueller's motion, said Manafort had attempted to call, text and send encrypted messages in February to two people from "The Hapsburg Group," a firm he worked with to promote the interests of Ukraine.

 

From wapo back in Feb: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/24/after-hapsburg-group-disclosure-in-mueller-indictment-former-european-politicians-come-under-scrutiny

I saw something about 30 minutes ago on this. Twitter is down for me right now, so I'll paraphrase. 

Manafort and Person A are long-time associates of Persons D1 and D2. Manafort and Person A don't talk to D1 and D2 for a long time. 

After he is indicted, Manafort called Person D1. D1 was uncomfortable talking to Manafort and told him he had to go. Manafort then messaged Person D1 on an encrypted app saying "it's paul". 

Person D1 said they thought it was an attempt to influence their testimony. 

I think Person A is Gates. Person D1 could be Nunberg and Person D2 could be Stone. I don't know if Nunberg and Stone have any connection to Hapsburg Group. They would fit the pattern of facts since February pretty well if they do. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Pods

[triplehorn 2664]

Former Fox News reporter says Russians colluded with Trump campaign through Roger Stone

"In a series of exclusive interviews, former Fox News Channel chief political correspondent Carl Cameron explained to ThinkProgress how the Russians coordinated their cyber attack on the 2016 election with the Trump campaign. 
[...] 
In his interviews with ThinkProgress, Cameron, who covered the Trump campaign for Fox News, connected the dots between the campaign, Russian intelligence, and the various Russian trolls around the world who were creating and viralizing memes and fake news on social media to help elect Trump. 
[...] 
In 2016, Cameron explained, Stone helped Guccifer2.0 — who worked for Russian intelligence — and other Russian-backed groups boost an anti-Clinton narrative online targeted at key groups. Stone direct-messaged with Guccifer2.0 and WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange on Twitter in August 2016. 
[...] 

As Cameron explained to ThinkProgress, a key goal of this coordination was to create opportunities for Russian intelligence and Russian trolls. The point was to viralize the anti-Clinton memes and narratives to suppress the vote for her. "

_________

Ok, so none of the above is particularly new for anyone hunting live witches.  It's been in plain sight while we wait for Mueller.  What's significant is you have the former Fox News Channel chief political correspondent reporting all this. A huge chunk of this story is the extent to which Fox News has or has not been actively coordinating with Trump campaign (now Admin) and Russian intelligence for ongoing strategic propaganda and messaging.  Cameron doesn't go there in the above, but having been a person prominent at Fox during the campaign may have informed his awareness and understanding of Russia's hand.  

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

Hang the lot of 'em. Fucking traitors. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

35 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Hang the lot of 'em. Fucking traitors. 

Not enough trees or rope. 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

4 hours ago, Pods said:

I saw something about 30 minutes ago on this. Twitter is down for me right now, so I'll paraphrase. 

Manafort and Person A are long-time associates of Persons D1 and D2. Manafort and Person A don't talk to D1 and D2 for a long time. 

After he is indicted, Manafort called Person D1. D1 was uncomfortable talking to Manafort and told him he had to go. Manafort then messaged Person D1 on an encrypted app saying "it's paul". 

Person D1 said they thought it was an attempt to influence their testimony. 

I think Person A is Gates. Person D1 could be Nunberg and Person D2 could be Stone. I don't know if Nunberg and Stone have any connection to Hapsburg Group. They would fit the pattern of facts since February pretty well if they do. 

I read that the “encrypted message” was just through WhatsApp 

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

1 hour ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Not enough trees or rope. 

 

Gonna need more than that to get through that orange mullet and associated hair product.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

45 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I read that the “encrypted message” was just through WhatsApp 

It wouldn't surprise me if they thought texting in Pig Latin was sufficient encryption.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Dahobbs 17625]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I read that the “encrypted message” was just through WhatsApp 

Well, WhatsApp actually does end-to-end encryption, so it is one of a handful of relatively secure messaging services (and PGP has had a bad couple of months on that front). 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Hornmatic 246]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I think Sessions is sticking around to spite Trump. 

Jefferson Beauregard Sessions VII strikes me as one of those proud Southern lawyer/prosecutor/Senator types who does not appreciate a liberal from New York shitting all over him, both publicly and privately. 

No, he is a little bitch. The first time Trump dressed him down he submitted a letter of resignation. Preibus had to talk him out of it. Since then he’s just become accustomed to Trump shitting on him. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Hornmatic said:

No, he is a little bitch. The first time Trump dressed him down he submitted a letter of resignation. Preibus had to talk him out of it. Since then he’s just become accustomed to Trump shitting on him. 

You think little Reince Preibus could talk Jefferson Beauregard Session out of something?

I don’t. I think Sessions was playing some serious political chicken with Trump and came out more secure in his position as AG. 

Sessions is a political chess master compared to these idiots in the White House.

Sessions is a little bitch, but he’s still standing. 

[Anastasis 23478]

What the temp at the moment wrt whether sessions was in on the russia collussion?

[TwiceHorn 31509]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You think little Reince Preibus could talk Jefferson Beauregard Session out of something?

I don’t. I think Sessions was playing some serious political chicken with Trump and came out more secure in his position as AG. 

Sessions is a political chess master compared to these idiots in the White House.

Sessions is a little bitch, but he’s still standing. 

Yeah, but he's not a Senator.  I think he's actually less dangerous as AG at odds with the President than a Senator.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, but he's not a Senator.  I think he's actually less dangerous as AG at odds with the President than a Senator.

He has more autonomy and unilateral authority as AG than as Senator.  

And thanks to his resignation stunt, he’s basically untouchable and Trump knows it.

Trump can’t fire him because of the political fallout so he’s going to rail against him verbally and pray he resigns.  Good luck with that dotard.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What the temp at the moment wrt whether sessions was in on the russia collussion?

From my estimate, Sessions only qualifies as a witness in a Russia conspiracy/collusion investigation.  Not a subject or target.

Sessions has more criminal liability in an obstruction or conspiracy to obstruct justice investigation, on a couple of fronts. 

[Gil Bang 25979]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, WhatsApp actually does end-to-end encryption, so it is one of a handful of relatively secure messaging services (and PGP has had a bad couple of months on that front). 

I'm no techie, but I know for a fact that our soldiers in combat zones are permitted to text using whatsapp exclusively.  That's the only communication I had with my son the past year or so, and it was a blessing. 

[Tuco 5076]

What the temp at the moment wrt whether sessions was in on the russia collussion?

Who knows, but he hasn’t been acting like a guilty man. He was the head of the foreign policy gang. My guess was aware of several of the communications (incl kislyak and the ambassador turned lobbyist), but wasn’t actively involved. OTH, he has the experience to know what a guilty man acts like and likely the smarts to avoid mimicking it. It’s possible he realized Comey knew enough early that it’d be best to look clean. Who knows. I really don’t know what the truth is, but I strongly suspect it doesn’t resemble what Trump and his gang are shoveling.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Jive Turkey 12622]

Well, Mueller can close the investigation. Pamela Anderson is on Tucker Carlson right now.  She’s talked to both Putin and Assange and think it’s “crazy” that they interfered with our election or colluded with Trump. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[triplehorn 2664]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

From my estimate, Sessions only qualifies as a witness in a Russia conspiracy/collusion investigation.  Not a subject or target.

Sessions has more criminal liability in an obstruction or conspiracy to obstruct justice investigation, on a couple of fronts. 

Sessions did grossly mislead in his confirmation hearing about not meeting with any Russians.  Consciousness of guilt was on full display.  SSCI testimony was full of 'I can't recall" and other selective amnesia.  But I agree with above, he's not acting like a guilty man -- compared to Trump.  He could just be keeping his head low and fingers crossed, or he's decided to cooperate even in the absence of direct legal threat.  Based on his behavior to date, no way he just gets passed over by the investigation.  He's seen too much, heard too much, and been present in person for highly incriminating events from the start.  He's either in the crosshairs or he's telling the truth to whomever is asking.  The farthest reach would be he's been an informant since the Spring of '16 and had to appear to have something to hide in his sundry Congressional testimonies.  

Edited June 6, 2018 by triplehorn

[Anastasis 23478]

10 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Sessions did grossly mislead in his confirmation hearing about not meeting with any Russians.  Consciousness of guilt was on full display.  SSCI testimony was full of 'I can't recall" and other selective amnesia.  But I agree with above, he's not acting like a guilty man -- compared to Trump.  He could just be keeping his head low and fingers crossed, or he's decided to cooperate even in the absence of direct legal threat.  Based on his behavior to date, no way he just gets passed over by the investigation.  He's seen too much, heard too much, and been present in person for highly incriminating events from the start.  He's either in the crosshairs or he's telling the truth to whomever is asking.  The farthest reach would be he's been an informant since the Spring of '16 and had to appear to have something to hide in his sundry Congressional testimonies.  

So we've traded in "MI6 has tapes of Sessions and Kislyak negotiating the collusion quid pro quo" and "Secret Mayflower meeting between Kislyak and Sessions to coordinate treason" for "He's been an informant since Spring 16 and rang up Franken to further his deep cover"?  Well played, Beauregard, I do say, well played. 

[Anastasis 23478]

23 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Well, Mueller can close the investigation. Pamela Anderson is on Tucker Carlson right now.  She’s talked to both Putin and Assange and think it’s “crazy” that they interfered with our election or colluded with Trump. 

 

 

What's Pam doing next week.  Is she available to make the trip to Singapore with Rodman.  I mean, if we are going to show out on the international stage, let's put it all out there. 

[Equinox 95]

41 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Well, Mueller can close the investigation. Pamela Anderson is on Tucker Carlson right now.  She’s talked to both Putin and Assange and think it’s “crazy” that they interfered with our election or colluded with Trump. 

 

 

Trump fucked her!

[triplehorn 2664]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

So we've traded in "MI6 has tapes of Sessions and Kislyak negotiating the collusion quid pro quo" and "Secret Mayflower meeting between Kislyak and Sessions to coordinate treason" for "He's been an informant since Spring 16 and rang up Franken to further his deep cover"?  Well played, Beauregard, I do say, well played. 

Something like that.  Sucks to be RU.