The Robert Mueller Investigation

[staboner 4957]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Some good one liners this page, unfortunately my daily rep allotment has been exceeded. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Call me crazy, but I'm thinking it might be a tactical error for a Russian spy whose cover has been blown to seek refuge in . . . Russia.

Are you kidding?  They’re probably giving him a fucking medal.

 

[Pods 7526]

I can't remember if it's been discussed on here or not, but regarding the recent tampering charges against Manafort, in addition to material from volunteered devices, the feds also got copies of messages from Manafort's iCloud account. 

[Tuco 5076]

One of the interesting characters in Trump's desire to build towers in former Soviet republics is Mikheil Saakashvili.  The dude has been President of Georgia (where he tried to get the tower built in 2011), but lost his election, was charged criminally, went to the US as a Tufts University lecturer, went to Ukraine to support their revolution in 2014, got his Georgian citizenship revoked, was appointed as Governor of Odessa, resigned (the day before Trump was elected), was charged with crimes, had his Ukrainian citizenship revoked, and his now living in the Netherlands. 

I don't know what to think of the guy, other than he is active.

Edit: ...and he survived an assassination attempt when he was sitting with George W. Bush. Grenade failed.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Tuco

[bolverk 29397]

Quote

 

The giant timeline of everything Russia, Trump and the investigations

The investigation into Russian attempts to influence the 2016 election has grown dramatically in both size and scope. A complex probe from the start, it is now a nearly indiscernible blur of characters, charges and counter-charges.

This timeline is a tool aimed at understanding the growing number of dots and where they connect. Think of it as a map. We spent months checking and cross-checking sources of information for each item.

Dig in. There is a lot here.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/russia-timeline/

[Pods 7526]

 

[Pods 7526]

 

More details on the recent charge of tampering against Manafort. Looks like his house arrest is going to end in about a week. Judge has a hearing on this June 15. 

WASHINGTON — The special counsel’s accusation this week that Paul Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, tried to tamper with potential witnesses originated with two veteran journalists who turned on Mr. Manafort after working closely with him to prop up the former Russia-aligned president of Ukraine, interviews and documents show.

The two journalists, who helped lead a project to which prosecutors say Mr. Manafort funneled more than $2 million from overseas accounts, are the latest in a series of onetime Manafort business partners who have provided damaging evidence to Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election. Their cooperation with the government has increasingly isolated Mr. Manafort as he awaits trial on charges of violating financial, tax and federal lobbying disclosure laws....

Prosecutors assert that Mr. Manafort’s fight included trying to shape the accounts that former business partners offered prosecutors. In court filings this week, they said that starting in late February, Mr. Manafort repeatedly tried to reach the two journalists — with whom he had fallen out of contact until recently — to coordinate their accounts about their work to tamp down international criticism of Mr. Yanukovych for corruption, persecuting rivals and pivoting toward Russia and its president, Vladimir V. Putin. The prosecutors did not name the journalists, but three people familiar with the project identified them as Alan Friedman and Eckart Sager.

 

Both men fended off the overtures, which included phone calls and encrypted text messages from Mr. Manafort and a longtime associate, whom prosecutors have not named but was identified by people close to Mr. Manafort as Konstantin V. Kilimnik, a former Russian Army linguist who prosecutors claim has ties to Russian intelligence.

 

You have 4 free articles remaining.

Subscribe to The Times

 

 

Instead of engaging, Mr. Friedman and Mr. Sager informed Mr. Mueller’s team of the efforts to reach them, according to prosecutors. Mr. Friedman accused Mr. Manafort of trying to “suborn perjury” by persuading him to lie to investigators, according to a declaration by an F.B.I. agent on the case. Neither Mr. Friedman nor Mr. Sager could be reached for comment.

 

[hayden_horn 11360]

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller has brought additional charges against President Donald Trump’s campaign chairman and a longtime associate, accusing them of obstructing justice.

The new charges were unsealed Friday against Paul Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnik.

They come after prosecutors accused Manafort of attempting to tamper with witnesses as he awaits trial of felony charges related to foreign lobbying work.

Prosecutors have accused Kilimnik of having ties to Russian intelligence, a charge he denies.

https://apnews.com/d0e364bcfa234729b88828e84ee437bf

 

[Party_Taco 3674]

Lady Justice is coming for that ass, Bobby...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/08/special-counsel-robert-mueller-files-new-indictment-against-paul-manafort-nbc-news.html

[Tuco 5076]

Alan Friedman:

https://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0811/CNBC_drops_World_Business.html

Quote

CNBC has pulled its weekend international business show, “World Business,” after a blog edited by Gordon Brown’s sister-in-law found that the show’s production company was doubling as a PR firm for Malaysian politicians.

The blog, the Sarawak Report, named after one of the states on the island of Borneo, reported that the London-based television production-company, FBC Media, had a contract with Sarawak’s Chief Minister, Taib Mahmud, to improve his international image. It suggests FBC carried out this contract in part through puff pieces in the news shows it produced.

...

The company’s executive chairman is Alan Friedman, an American journalist who interned in the Carter White House and worked as a columnist for the Financial Times and Wall Street Journal. Last year, he wrote for The Atlantic as a special correspondent from Davos.

Although staffers were around to answer phones at FBC Media on Wednesday, messages left for Friedman were not returned.

On Friedman’s Wikipedia page, FBC Media is listed as as a “a London-based strategic communications, national branding and television and online content group with interests primarily in Europe, the Middle East and Asia.”

FBC Media is listed in lobbying reports as having paid tens of thousands of dollars to Washington-based lobbying firm Apco in recent years to lobby on behalf of the Malaysian government, the blog points out.

 

Eckart Sager

http://asbarez.com/166535/former-cnn-employee-received-2-6-million-through-azerbaijani-laundromat/

(Remember that Trump was trying to build a tower in Baku.)

Quote

BAKU– Additional revelations over Azerbaijan’s corruption scheme that have come about in the last couple of days have exposed a former CNN employee’s role in the scandal.

The report called “Azerbaijani Laundromat” by the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) revealed that former CNN producer Eckart Sager received nearly $2.6 million from British companies including Hilux Services. The money was transferred to Sager’s account in the UAE.

The revelation notes that Sager, receiving money from Azerbaijan, published articles propagating the Azerbaijani visions on various issues or defended pro-Azerbaijani figures.

....

 

Sager also worked with Friedman at FBC Media.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/special-investigation-tv-company-takes-millions-from-malaysian-government-to-make-documentaries-for-2338813.html

 

Quote

Eckart Sager, president and head of production for FBC

 

 

German-born and educated in the US, Sager is a former senior producer for CNN, based in London. He previously worked for CNN in New York, travelling the world profiling leading business figures. He is the executive producer of many of FBC's documentaries and also "provides key strategic communications advice and support on behalf of FBC clients".

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Tuco

[Pods 7526]

5 minutes ago, Party_Taco said:

Lady Justice is coming for that ass, Bobby...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/08/special-counsel-robert-mueller-files-new-indictment-against-paul-manafort-nbc-news.html

Special counsel Robert Mueller filed new witness tampering criminal charges against ex-Trump campaign chief Paul Manafort as well as Russian citizen Konstantin Kilimnik as a defendant.

The superseding indictment lodged by a grand jury sitting in federal court in Washington, DC, came days after Mueller asked the judge in Manafort's case to revoke his bail and jail him because of an alleged effort to tamper with witnesses.

Manafort and Kilimnik were both hit with new charges accusing them of using intimidation or force against a witness to obstruct justice, and also with tampering with a witness, victim or informant.

 

Lawyers for Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

[Party_Taco 3674]

Quote

using intimidation or force against a witness to obstruct justice

I have a feeling this will become a theme over the coming months...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Boom!

New indictment on Mueller’s homepage ending the longest lull.  My prediction was a week off.

https://www.justice.gov/sco

https://www.justice.gov/file/1070326/download

Trump probably knew about this development two weeks ago.  Helps explain the Manafort tweets.

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Boom!

New indictment on Mueller’s homepage ending the longest lull.  My prediction was a week off.

https://www.justice.gov/sco

https://www.justice.gov/file/1070326/download

Trump probably knew about this development two weeks ago.  Helps explain the Manafort tweets.

Yeah, I don't think another indictment against Manafort qualifies as a validation of your prediction that there would be a bunch of new indictments by June 1st. (God, imagine how you would've stroked yourself if that had actually happened.) Take a chill pill. Please.

I do appreciate your rare tweet-free post. 

[Pods 7526]

 

Turns out Kilimnik is also connected to Cambridge Analytica.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

This is a weird thing.  Much like the Russian indictment, I don't think Kilimnik can be expected to be apprehended for appearance and trial, or voluntarily appear.  Thus, unless severance is requested, this will delay Manafort's trial on these counts indefinitely.

 

Even if a severance is moved for and granted, this will almost assuredly move the currently scheduled trial date.

Edited June 8, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[lemonlime 5503]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is a weird thing.  Much like the Russian indictment, I don't think Kliminik can be expected to be apprehended for appearance and trial.  Thus, unless severance is requested, this will delay Manafort's trial on these counts indefinitely.

Maybe setting up a conspiracy charge for Manafort

[Tuco 5076]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Even if a severance is moved for and granted, this will almost assuredly move the currently scheduled trial date.

Do you think that might be the intent?

[Party_Taco 3674]

^^^ Could be, if they intend to drop a ton of heat at the same time to dissuade any disruption from those involved...

Really what I'm the most interested in is which American citizen will be indited next.  

[Pods 7526]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Do you think that might be the intent?

The intent is to show Manafort is actively engaged in a conspiracy with a Russian intelligence operative, has been repeatedly violating the terms of his bail and to put his ass in jail, where he belongs. The US will probably never be able to actually prosecute Kilimnik, but he is a Russian GRU operative attempting to intimidate witnesses, along with Manafort. Exposing that is an important part of the process. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Pods

[Lagunamadre 1975]

1 minute ago, Pods said:

The intent is to show Manafort is actively engaged in a conspiracy with a Russian intelligence operative, has been repeatedly violating the terms of his bail and to put his ass in jail, where he belongs. The US will probably never be able to actually prosecute Kilimnik, but he is a Russian GRU operative attempting to intimidate witnesses, along with Manafort. Exposing that is an important part of the processes. 

Traveling outside of Russia just became a bit more difficult for Kilmnik I suspect. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

21 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, I don't think another indictment against Manafort qualifies as a validation of your prediction that there would be a bunch of new indictments by June 1st. (God, imagine how you would've stroked yourself if that had actually happened.) Take a chill pill. Please.

I do appreciate your rare tweet-free post. 

I was wrong, period.

However I could sense something was coming and this isn’t just another charge to Manafort.  

This is a new person charged with 18 USC 371 PLUS obstruction.

[Tuco 5076]

^^^to Pods...

That's certainly the end game.  If there are good strategic reasons for pushing the trial back (like avoiding exposing what they know before they can finish the investigation with Trump) I'm good with Mueller doing anything ethical to accomplish it.

And, I think it's worth noting that Kilimnik has more of a stake in being able to come to the States than the 13 other Russians.  He did lobbying shit, including some stateside.  Akhmetshin testified that KK traveled with a Ukranian member of Parliament to attend the SOTU in 2014.  That's over.  He likely has to watch his ass going to US-friendly countries, including the Urkaine once Trump is out.  His world just got a whole lot smaller, and his business is based on operating in the world. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Tuco

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

Hugo makes Taylor “0-15” Hamm look like Negrodamus. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Trump may have to pardon a real Russian spy now if he wanted to pardon Manafort

[triplehorn 2664]

37 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is a weird thing.  Much like the Russian indictment, I don't think Kilimnik can be expected to be apprehended for appearance and trial, or voluntarily appear.  Thus, unless severance is requested, this will delay Manafort's trial on these counts indefinitely.

 

Even if a severance is moved for and granted, this will almost assuredly move the currently scheduled trial date.

Seems like a necessary move to get Manafort behind bars next week with plenty of time to think about cooperating before his trial starts.

And as above, forcing those under indictment to choose to hole up in RUS instead of demonstrating accountability is its own form of confinement.

Edited June 8, 2018 by triplehorn

[triplehorn 2664]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump may have to pardon a real Russian spy now if he wanted to pardon Manafort

good observation, but considering he tried to pardon Ali who has nothing for which he can be pardoned, it won't stop marmalade mussolini from trying.

[Pods 7526]

15 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

Hugo makes Taylor “0-15” Hamm look like Negrodamus. 

Some of you are far more obsessed with Hugo than any aggy is with Texas. We get it, you don't like his posts. Attack the content, not the messenger. You can't do that, so you choose ad hominem. Ironically, you chose an aggy metaphor that far better describes your own actions. 

[Pods 7526]

Reposting this the Atlantic article from a few days ago about Konstantin Kilimnik and his ties to Russian intelligence.  

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/the-astonishing-tale-of-the-man-mueller-calls-person-a/562217/

What everyone close to Paul Manafort already knew, and what The New York Times and other outlets later confirmed, is that Mueller was pseudonymously describing none other than Konstantin Kilimnik. Or to put it even more bluntly than Mueller: Donald Trump’s campaign chairman had a pawn of Russian intelligence as his indispensable alter ego.

 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

20 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Seems like a necessary move to get Manafort behind bars next week with plenty of time to think about cooperating before his trial starts.

And as above, forcing those under indictment to choose to hole up in RUS instead of demonstrating accountability is its own form of confinement.

It isn't necessary to indict to revoke his bail, especially not a Russian national. They could have indicted Kilimnik separately. 

[Pods 7526]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It isn't necessary to indict to revoke his bail, especially not a Russian national. They could have indicted Kilimnik separately. 

Mueller is navigating a minefield, with Trump and the GOP lapping at his heels trying to obstruct and fire him. He also has some of the best legal minds in the country working on his case and determining his strategy. We have only a bare minimum idea of the evidence Mueller has locked up. Until shown otherwise, I'm going to assume Mueller made the right call to indict Kilimnik along with Manafort. This is the biggest case of the century, I'm sure he has a reason, or he would have done it differently. 

[Gil Bang 25897]

15 minutes ago, Pods said:

Mueller is navigating a minefield, with Trump and the GOP lapping at his heels trying to obstruct and fire him. He also has some of the best legal minds in the country working on his case and determining his strategy. We have only a bare minimum idea of the evidence Mueller has locked up. Until shown otherwise, I'm going to assume Mueller made the right call to indict Kilimnik along with Manafort. This is the biggest case of the century, I'm sure he has a reason, or he would have done it differently. 

Right there with you.  

I enjoy the comment from the lawyers on the board, but, none of us know the full story. 

[triplehorn 2664]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It isn't necessary to indict to revoke his bail, especially not a Russian national. They could have indicted Kilimnik separately. 

I fully trust your response that the word necessary was inapt.  Not a necessary path, but the indictments bring more pressure to cooperate, broaden the web, and the text of the indictments tell an easily understandable story.

Kilimnik brings the number of individuals indicted by Mueller to 20 and counting.

[TwiceHorn 31263]

5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

I fully trust your response that the word necessary was inapt.  Not a necessary path, but the indictments bring more pressure to cooperate, broaden the web, and the text of the indictments tell an easily understandable story.

Kilimnik brings the number of individuals indicted by Mueller to 20 and counting.

I mean, indictment of Manafort for tampering shows that they seriously believe that a crime was committed and not just some half ass attempt. so to some extent, it bolsters the bail revocation, but it isn't strictly necessary.

I'm puzzled by joining the Kilimnik indictment with Manafort, though.  Never said it was wrong, just curious. 

[Pods 7526]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I mean, indictment of Manafort for tampering shows that they seriously believe that a crime was committed and not just some half ass attempt. so to some extent, it bolsters the bail revocation, but it isn't strictly necessary.

I'm puzzled by joining the Kilimnik indictment with Manafort, though.  Never said it was wrong, just curious. 

Mueller is alleging a conspiracy between Manafort and Kilimnik to intimidate witnesses. It seems necessary to indict them both, or he'd be facing criticism for not doing so. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and is making the best imperfect choice available. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

No Collusion! No Obstruction!

Then Manafort goes and colludes with a Russian to obstruct justice.

Really not great for the original narrative.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[TahoeHorn 107]

1 hour ago, Pods said:

Some of you are far more obsessed with Hugo than any aggy is with Texas. We get it, you don't like his posts. Attack the content, not the messenger. You can't do that, so you choose ad hominem. Ironically, you chose an aggy metaphor that far better describes your own actions. 

You should read the posts about me INCLUDING YOURS!

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Hugo is sincere, if misguided.  You're an admitted troll.  Apples and oranges. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I troll too, just not as overt and often as Tahoe.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Well, when it happens and you get called out for it, I guess we'll see if you whine about it like TH. 

[Pods 7526]

19 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

You should read the posts about me INCLUDING YOURS!

Not even close to the same thing. You have made a conscious and very public choice to be a shameless, partisan, self-buttfingering cheerleader. You are actually guilty of the things people accuse Hugo of. Unlike Hugo, you are also in a position to speak up, but chose to be an amoral coward while bringing donuts. 

I'd call you out far less too if you didn't have Horn in your name. Nothing about any of your posts represents the values of the University of Texas. You are far more Bug Tussle Tide than you are either Tahoe or Horn. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Pods

[Pods 7526]

You guys ready to drop the "No Collusion™" bit yet? Collusion and conspiracy are essentially synonyms. 

 

[Anastasis 23393]

2 minutes ago, Pods said:

You guys ready to drop the "No Collusion™" bit yet? Collusion and conspiracy are essentially synonyms. 



 

Just asking questions: Was any of the conspiring charged by Mueller described as being related to the 2016 election, or was it related to Manaforts past work in Ukraine?

[TwiceHorn 31263]

6 minutes ago, Pods said:

You guys ready to drop the "No Collusion™" bit yet? Collusion and conspiracy are essentially synonyms. 

 

Dude.  Collusion/conspiracy to tamper with a witness in a pending criminal case may literally be "collusion," but it isn't at all within the original definition of the term as applied to Trump.

 

Don't go there.  That's Trumpkin level shit.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Dude.  Collusion/conspiracy to tamper with a witness in a pending criminal case may literally be "collusion," but it isn't at all within the original definition of the term as applied to Trump.

 

Don't go there.  That's Trumpkin level shit.

More than that, maybe Manafort didn't know the dude was a Russian operative?  </trumpkin>

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Yeah, it’s not like the Trump Campaign met in a hotel room with Russian spies on how to bring down Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.

And then tried to conceal that meeting, repeatedly.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[TwiceHorn 31263]

Which raises another point.  Why indict for both consipiracy to obstruct justice and obstruction of justice?  They aren't independent crimes, just a way of making conspirators liable for the acts of others or incomplete offenses.

[TwiceHorn 31263]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Just asking questions: Was any of the conspiring charged by Mueller described as being related to the 2016 election, or was it related to Manaforts past work in Ukraine?

No, in indictment counts Six and Seven, the conspiracy and obstruction are alleged to have occurred between February and April 2018.  They are solely related to witness tampering in connection with Manafort's case.

Edited June 8, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23393]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Dude.  Collusion/conspiracy to tamper with a witness in a pending criminal case may literally be "collusion," but it isn't at all within the original definition of the term as applied to Trump.

 

Don't go there.  That's Trumpkin level shit.

My thesis is that Twitter is prone to make people say retarded things.  Trump first and foremost. 

[TwiceHorn 31263]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

My thesis is that Twitter is prone to make people say retarded things.  Trump first and foremost. 

I like your thesis.  I kind of enjoy some tweets for sports-related things, mostly Texas Baseball, but the rest of it drives me nuts.  Too many sound bites in society as it stands, without the 140 character sound bite machine.

Edited June 8, 2018 by TwiceHorn