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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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kevwun

kevwun 16269

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't an indictment.  The document itself is an affidavit in support of a complaint, which is also a document charging a criminal offense.  The difference between a complaint and an indictment is that an indictment has been returned by a grand jury.

Complaints are usually filed to support an arrest warrant on the crime charged, with an indictment to follow later.  It's usually done when there isn't time to secure an indictment and an immediate arrest is desireable, as in the person in question is about to leave the country.

Also, this does not appear to have issued from the Office of the Special Counsel, ie Mueller, but rather from the Counterintelligence Division of the FBI and the DC USA.

I would be shocked if Mueller's team didn't give them the info.

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kevwun

kevwun 16269

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't an indictment.  The document itself is an affidavit in support of a complaint, which is also a document charging a criminal offense.  The difference between a complaint and an indictment is that an indictment has been returned by a grand jury.

Complaints are usually filed to support an arrest warrant on the crime charged, with an indictment to follow later.  It's usually done when there isn't time to secure an indictment and an immediate arrest is desireable, as in the person in question is about to leave the country.

Also, this does not appear to have issued from the Office of the Special Counsel, ie Mueller, but rather from the Counterintelligence Division of the FBI and the DC USA.

I would be shocked if Mueller's team didn't give them the info.

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

Whoa, whoa, Renato is jumping to conclusions here on who "Political Party 1" refers to, that could be ANY political party. I mean why would you just jump to conclusions that the political party trying to set up a secret back channel to the Kremlin via an unnamed gun rights organization would be the GOP? 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted
Just now, kevwun said:

I would be shocked if Mueller's team didn't give them the info.

Well the affidavit is made on personal knowledge of Kevin Helson, who claims to be in the Counterintelligence Division in the Washington Field Office.

I also note that it makes reference to search warrants for Butina's laptop and cell phone.  I suspect this affidavit, complaint and arrest were made nearly contemporaneously, or immediately after, obtaining her devices.

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TornACL

TornACL 7791

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I wonder if our favorite Sheriff is in on this?  You know, they one with all the flair?

I hope US PERSON 1 is either that Clarke or Trump Jr.

It's got to be someone completely fucking stupid to talk about private lines of communication with the Kremlin through a personal email.

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Js1

Js1 86939

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I hope US PERSON 1 is either that Clarke or Trump Jr.

It's got to be someone completely fucking stupid to talk about private lines of communication with the Kremlin through a personal email.

Most likely Clarke.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1799

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Hey!  It doesn't say GOP and NRA.  That could be any POLITICAL PARTY 1 and GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION!

Only referring to the GOP as POLITICAL PARTY 1 from now on.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted

Interesting that a March 2015 email says “it looks like POLITICAL PARTY 1 will take over the government in 2016.”   

I wonder what that was based on.  That early could just be reference t the likelihood that GOP follows Dem 2 terms and vice versa.  If it is any more than that some tin foily thoughts start appearing. 

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Tuco

Tuco 5093

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So this seems like news. Not necessarily a crazy bombshell or anything, but this connects the Kremlin to the Republican Party, not just Trump and his campaign.

That seems fairly important.

I think it's bigger news than the indictment of the 12 Russians.  That affidavit is official confirmation of what has been suspected, or possibly assumed, for a while. (No, not confirmation of guilt, but of what there is concrete evidence on.)

This is a response to Maria from Person 1, who seems much smarter than Clarke or Jr. :

Quote

Most of the potential "guest appearances" listed under media will only be possible if you're willing to be more candid (honest) than is politically prudent for you.  But ALL of the media personalities listed would be interested in meeting you "off the record" - though your patrons/sponsors may not fully understand the power of such meetings if you do not appear on television, radio, or print as you do in Russia.

 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15664

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I think it's bigger news than the indictment of the 12 Russians.  That affidavit is official confirmation of what has been suspected, or possibly assumed, for a while. (No, not confirmation of guilt, but of what there is concrete evidence on.)

This is a response to Maria from Person 1, who seems much smarter than Clarke or Jr. :

 

This is how Trump actually gets convicted and removed from office.  This is the link that shows that Russian interference isn't limited to the Trump campaign, but has infiltrated every level of the GOP and the special interests that support it.  So for Republican members of Congress, they may soon get to a "him or us" moment.

If they can impeach and convict Trump, then this investigation loses a lot of its steam.  Even though there are still Russian assets throughout the GOP, without Trump as a galvanizing motivator to spur on the investigation, it probably wraps up.  So in short order they may realize that their survival depends on cutting Trump loose and proceeding with Mike Pence as their standard-bearer.

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Tuco

Tuco 5093

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

After reading that complaint, why would the NRA get involved with Russia unless Russia is paying off their leaders?  Also weird that Russians seemed to see the National Prayer Breakfast as some major breakthrough in their alignment with the US.

One of Russia's main selling points revolves around the "Clash of Civilizations" concept.  Christians and Jews vs. Muslims.  That is reflected in much of the gun-culture propaganda, but obviously ties into some of fundy Christian stuff as well. 

This is a good Time article.

Quote

What would right-wing activists in the U.S. have in common with Putin's Russia? More than you might expect. Conservative Christianity has been one common touchstone. The dinner at the George Hotel, hosted by conservative activist and Rockefeller scion George O'Neill Jr., was part of the festivities surrounding the National Prayer Breakfast, an annual event run by evangelicals to forge new, if informal, diplomatic ties through shared spiritual principles. Evangelicals have discovered common ground with Moscow's nationalist and ultraconservative push--led by the Russian Orthodox Church--to make the post-Soviet nation a bulwark of Christianity amid the increasing secularization of the West.

Prominent social conservative leaders, like Franklin Graham, say they see Putin as a powerful partner in the quest to protect Christian religious minorities. In war zones like Syria, says Graham, Putin has been a stronger defender of Christians than U.S. leaders. "Islam teaches to kill Christians and Jews," claims Graham, president of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Putin "sees himself in the Middle East as defending the Christian remnant that is left in Syria." In 2015 Graham met privately with Putin, who has supported Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime, while visiting Moscow at the Russian Orthodox Church's invitation. They planned a conference on persecuted Christians, which will be held in Washington in May. "He was very supportive," says Graham. "He said he would do all he could from his office to help."

Catholic leaders like Brian Brown have been impressed by the Russian Orthodox Church's decision to tighten policies on abortion and uphold traditional marriage. Since 2014, Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage, has worked closely with the church and with Russian anti-abortion and antigay marriage activists like FamilyPolicy.ru. In late January, Brown visited Moscow to seek the Duma's support for his group's new manifesto on those issues. These new bonds with Russia have "been a sea change, both in my own view and also, I think, for many conservatives," Brown says. "Wherever there are folks standing up for marriage, we will meet with them."

The next paragraphs of the same article gives some possibilities for the American contacts.

Quote

While some activists bonded over faith, others found shared purpose in guns. Russia has no real tradition of Second Amendment rights. But with Torshin's help, Butina has managed to form close relationships with top NRA officials. Butina, 28, was running a furniture business in her provincial Siberian hometown just a few years ago. After moving to Moscow in 2011, she founded a gun-rights organization, the Right to Bear Arms, and began traveling back and forth to the U.S. "She's very, very well connected with elected officials in the Soviet Union," says Alan Gottlieb, who founded the Second Amendment Foundation, serves on the board of the American Conservative Union and has met with Butina and Torshin in Russia.

In 2015, a collection of NRA officials flew over to attend Butina's annual gun conference. Among them was Erickson; former NRA and ACU chief David Keene; gun manufacturer and NRA first vice president Pete Brownell; and Milwaukee County sheriff David Clarke, a Trump supporter and sensation among the conservative grassroots. One of their hosts was Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who was sanctioned by the White House in 2014 in connection with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. According to a disclosure filed by Clarke, Butina's group shelled out $6,000 for the sheriff's meals, lodging, transportation and other excursions on the trip.

NRA allies say the group is happy to work with international firearms-advocacy groups to advance mutual interests. The NRA forked over some $30 million to help elect Trump, about two and a half times the amount it shelled out on the 2012 election, despite his previous support for gun-control measures. (The group did not respond to a request to comment for this story.) "I am deeply grateful for the friendship of the American NRA," Butina, now a graduate student in international relations at American University in Washington, wrote in an email to TIME. "My work has been focused exclusively on the expansion of gun rights--very publicly."

But Butina's attraction to the Republican Party runs broader than common ground on gun rights. "It may take the election of a Republican to the White House in 2016 to improve relations between the Russian Federation and the United States," she wrote in the summer of 2015 in the National Interest, a magazine published by the Center for the National Interest. The same Washington think tank hosted a foreign policy speech for candidate Trump in April 2016, where Trump was introduced to Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, according to the Wall Street Journal.

In April 2015, Butina and Torshin traveled to Tennessee to attend a fundraiser for a political group backing the presidential campaign of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, then viewed as a leading contender for the GOP nomination. In July, she attended Walker's campaign kickoff in Wisconsin. The same week, Butina flew to Las Vegas for one of Trump's first campaign events. She asked Trump whether he would end the "damaging" U.S. government sanctions on Russia. "I know Putin, and I'll tell you what, we'll get along with Putin," he responded. "I don't think you'd need the sanctions."

 

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Tuco

Tuco 5093

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

This is how Trump actually gets convicted and removed from office. 

My fear is that this how he gets defended.  If Gowdy and others legitimize the investigation, and that investigation implicates the GOP and their very powerful NRA lobby, they are fucked.  If they float this "deep state" bullshit and shutdown Mueller, then they may just able to stonewall the investigation for the next 27 months.  The stakes are higher.  If this has the potential to take a good chunk of the GOP infrastructure down, that makes doing the right thing a lot harder.

 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21323

Posted
Posted

The Russians fucked up because their plan worked too well.  Trump was supposed to be a puppet but not this stupid how he goes about it.  They tried to infiltrate many of our political institutions and were probably amazed at just how easy it was.  Not sure why they should be surprised that barrels of cash got them a long ways, but here we are.   

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 Not sure why they should be surprised that barrels of cash got them a long ways, but here we are.   

It's not even that much cash. A few hundred grand was the social media spend. Our politicians are even cheaper whores. 5-10k gets you alli the access you could want. 

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Annie said:

You predicted it Hugo. Everything is Russia.

good thing he did if he did because, in this context, everything is russia.  every now and then we learn a little more the depth of it and then realize there's a long, long way to go.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21323

Posted
Posted
Just now, Anastasis said:

It's not even that much cash. A few hundred grand was the social media spend. Our politicians are even cheaper whores. 5-10k gets you alli the access you could want. 

I think they had sunk a lot more into bailing Manafort out and the RICO investigation will show Trump was getting easy cash from Russia for years.  But you're right, while some may have received more than others, many didn't take much at all to fall right in line with a foreign adversary.  

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Too busy booking flights to countries that don't have extradition treaties with the US.

some of those people are going to spend significant time out-of-the-loop, and if they bolt, that's it for them here.

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Grandioso

Grandioso 2592

Posted
Posted

[FBI] Ms. Butina, you're only 29. You have a long life ahead of you. Work with us and we can give you immunity and guarantee your safety. What PACs and politicians did you meet with and what was the substance of those conversations? Remember, we always can send you back to Russia and tell Putin that you disclosed state secrets to us.[/FBI]

...singingcanary_me8ekbna.gif

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18424

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

It’s all fucking lining up. The dossier, the admission from GOP elites themselves, everything. 

You mean the Discredited Clinton Dossier? I was assured that had been fully discredited.  Except for the parts that said “No Collusion!” and “Hillary beat Seth Rich to death with an email server,” of course.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90546

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

This is how Trump actually gets convicted and removed from office.  This is the link that shows that Russian interference isn't limited to the Trump campaign, but has infiltrated every level of the GOP and the special interests that support it.  So for Republican members of Congress, they may soon get to a "him or us" moment.

If they can impeach and convict Trump, then this investigation loses a lot of its steam.  Even though there are still Russian assets throughout the GOP, without Trump as a galvanizing motivator to spur on the investigation, it probably wraps up.  So in short order they may realize that their survival depends on cutting Trump loose and proceeding with Mike Pence as their standard-bearer.

sub-buzz-3481-1468679970-1.jpg

 

http://hail-hydra.com/

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