The Robert Mueller Investigation

[triplehorn 2,664]

Butina is a lot more than meets the eye:

 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Just astonishing that a Russian agent was able to so easily and openly infiltrate the GOP.  Trump attacks the DNC for not preventing a computer hack, and Hillary for having an unsecure system, but palling around with the GRU is a much more egregious failure of caution. 

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1,606]

23 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Just astonishing that a Russian agent was able to so easily and openly infiltrate the GOP.  Trump attacks the DNC for not preventing a computer hack, and Hillary for having an unsecure system, but palling around with the GRU is a much more egregious failure of caution. 

Trump and his ilk criminalize everyone else for anything no matter how trivial. However, they are of the firm belief that anything they do could never be criminal, illegal, and shouldn't even be questioned. You're goddamned right it's a far more egregious failure of caution to do anything with the GRU.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

41 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Butina is a lot more than meets the eye:

Is she though?  It’s been obvious for a long time she is a weapon of the Kremlin.

Before her work in government service, she was a furniture salesperson in Siberia. 

[atomheartbevo 89,439]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Is she though?  It’s been obvious for a long time she is a weapon of the Kremlin.

Before her work in government service, she was a furniture salesperson in Siberia. 

The only way she spent any time in Siberia is if there was a spy training facility there..

[PittsburghTiger 6,137]

56 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Just astonishing that a Russian agent was able to so easily and openly infiltrate the GOP.  Trump attacks the DNC for not preventing a computer hack, and Hillary for having an unsecure system, but palling around with the GRU is a much more egregious failure of caution. 

She also came and met with some officials in 2015 so I don't thin k this is some new development.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-russia-butina-exclusive/exclusive-alleged-russian-agent-butina-met-with-u-s-treasury-fed-officials-idUKKBN1KC0DE

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Maria Butina, accused in the United States of spying for Russia, had wider high-level contacts in Washington than previously known, taking part in 2015 meetings between a visiting Russian official and two senior U.S. officials.

The meetings, disclosed by several people familiar with the sessions and a report prepared by a Washington think tank that arranged them, involved Stanley Fischer, then Federal Reserve vice chairman, and Nathan Sheets, then Treasury undersecretary for international affairs.

Butina traveled to the United States in April 2015 with Alexander Torshin, then the Russian Central Bank deputy governor, and they took part in separate meetings with Fischer and Sheets to discuss U.S.-Russian economic relations during Democratic former President Barack Obama’s administration. 

The two meetings, which have not been previously reported, reveal a wider circle of high-powered connections that Butina sought with American political leaders and special interest groups.

[horncyclist 1,386]

Makes you wonder how many Maria Butinas there are.

[Huckleberry 32,701]

11 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

She also came and met with some officials in 2015 so I don't thin k this is some new development.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-russia-butina-exclusive/exclusive-alleged-russian-agent-butina-met-with-u-s-treasury-fed-officials-idUKKBN1KC0DE

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Maria Butina, accused in the United States of spying for Russia, had wider high-level contacts in Washington than previously known, taking part in 2015 meetings between a visiting Russian official and two senior U.S. officials.

The meetings, disclosed by several people familiar with the sessions and a report prepared by a Washington think tank that arranged them, involved Stanley Fischer, then Federal Reserve vice chairman, and Nathan Sheets, then Treasury undersecretary for international affairs.

Butina traveled to the United States in April 2015 with Alexander Torshin, then the Russian Central Bank deputy governor, and they took part in separate meetings with Fischer and Sheets to discuss U.S.-Russian economic relations during Democratic former President Barack Obama’s administration. 

The two meetings, which have not been previously reported, reveal a wider circle of high-powered connections that Butina sought with American political leaders and special interest groups.

L O Fucking L.

You have been completely missing from either thread discussing this situation for weeks but suddenly pop up now that there's a link to a Democrat administration. Forgive us if we realize you don't actually give a shit about our national security but only care about Democrats looking bad in comparison to Republicans.

Transparent as hell.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

3 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Makes you wonder how many Maria Butinas there are.

There are plenty of people like her who come over in a diplomatic capacity and try to make some inroads, but she seems to have been extraordinarily successful in infiltrating the GOP over the last couple of years. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,137]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

L O Fucking L.

You have been completely missing from either thread discussing this situation for weeks but suddenly pop up now that there's a link to a Democrat administration. Forgive us if we realize you don't actually give a shit about our national security but only care about Democrats looking bad in comparison to Republicans.

Transparent as hell.

Nah, I posted it more because of the date, 2015, when she had meetings with other folks here. The date leading itself to the fact that she, and her friends, were cultivating links for a while, not just since the 2016 election. 

So you are saying she did not have these other meetings?

 

Go ahead with your thread policing.

Edited July 23, 2018 by PittsburghTiger

[Tuco 5,076]

8 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

The meetings, disclosed by several people familiar with the sessions and a report prepared by a Washington think tank that arranged them, involved Stanley Fischer, then Federal Reserve vice chairman, and Nathan Sheets, then Treasury undersecretary for international affairs.

 

The Center for National Interest was that Washington think tank.  Nixon has quite the legacy. 

I'm sure Butina met with a bunch of people.  Some were receptive to the policies she pushed and some weren't.  Of the former, I imagine there were those who were receptive for pure and patriotic reasons, and would never consider doing anything illegal in their pursuits.  But there may have been others who pushed her beliefs for less altruistic reasons, or were willing to commit crime to push her policies. 

But Fischer is an interesting guy.  He resigned for personal reasons on 9/6/17, eight months shy of the term expiration.  I don't know what value he could provide Butina in her mission. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

From my understanding, counterintelligence rarely takes people like Butina into custody.  They either don’t let them into the country anymore, try to mitigate their influence in another way, or observe and report their activities...Or some combination of all three.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[PittsburghTiger 6,137]

Just now, Tuco said:

The Center for National Interest was that Washington think tank.  Nixon has quite the legacy. 

I'm sure Butina met with a bunch of people.  Some were receptive to the policies she pushed and some weren't.  Of the former, I imagine there were those who were receptive for pure and patriotic reasons, and would never consider doing anything illegal in their pursuits.  But there may have been others who pushed her beliefs for less altruistic reasons, or were willing to commit crime to push her policies. 

But Fischer is an interesting guy.  He resigned for personal reasons on 9/6/17, eight months shy of the term expiration.  I don't know what value he could provide Butina in her mission. 

And that is why I posted that story. 

[Huckleberry 32,701]

1 minute ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Nah, I posted it more because of the date, 2015, when she had meetings with other folks here. The date leading itself to the fact that she, and her friends, were cultivating links for a while, not just since the 2016 election. 

So you are saying she did not have these other meetings?

 

Go ahead with your thread policing.

That's not thread policing, dipshit, that's calling you out for being a hypocritical team playing moron.

[Tuco 5,076]

1 minute ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Nah, I posted it more because of the date, 2015, when she had meetings with other folks here. The date leading itself to the fact that she, and her friends, were cultivating links for a while, not just since the 2016 election. 

So you are saying she did not have these other meetings?

 

Go ahead with your thread policing.

I guess you don't realize the 2016 election started in 2015.  She wrote a piece for the Center of National Interest four days before Trump announced his candidacy.  She was trying to get in with the Walker campaign prior to that.

[PittsburghTiger 6,137]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

That's not thread policing, dipshit, that's calling you out for being a hypocritical team playing moron.

Sure thing man. Are you still saying that these other meetings did not take place? In 2015? Before the election of Trump? Perhaps you should calm down a bit. Read the story and comment on the story that showed her meeting with people in 2015. That's all.

[PittsburghTiger 6,137]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

I guess you don't realize the 2016 election started in 2015.  She wrote a piece for the Center of National Interest four days before Trump announced his candidacy.  She was trying to get in with the Walker campaign prior to that.

Yeah, I know when it started. 

[Huckleberry 32,701]

4 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Sure thing man. Are you still saying that these other meetings did not take place? In 2015? Before the election of Trump? Perhaps you should calm down a bit. Read the story and comment on the story that showed her meeting with people in 2015. That's all.

Your question is pointless. I'm sure the meetings took place, mostly because I'm not an idiot that ignores issues because I think it might make my team look bad.

So, do you think that Russian agents meeting with and manipulating campaign and/or government officials is a problem? Yes or no.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Hiphopopotamos 20,865]

 

[shnsajax 3,589]

That should be fun. Wonder when we will find out the names of those getting immunity, or will this be day of trial?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Govt said Manafort's previous lawyers at Wilmer Hale had access last year to docs from Manafort's bookkeeper that were part of the recent production, so it shouldn't be an issue. Manafort's current lawyer said he didn't get them and didn't have access

Judge asked why Manafort couldn't get the docs from his own bookkeeper — Manafort's lawyer said the bookkeeper wanted them to pay the cost of producing to the govt, and they refused. Cheaper to get it through discovery, Manafort's lawyer said.

There's also a dispute over docs recently produced from Rick Gates' devices, Manafort's codefendent-turned-government-cooperator. Govt says it's mostly images, nothing they're using as evidence, not relevant. Manafort lawyers say it could be relevant, they need time to look

Paul Manafort was in court today, wearing a green short-sleeved jumpsuit with a white shirt underneath. His lawyers asked that he be excused from attending court this afternoon, judge said that was fine.

[Hiphopopotamos 20,865]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Paul Manafort was in court today, wearing a green short-sleeved jumpsuit with a white shirt underneath. His lawyers asked that he be excused from attending court this afternoon, judge said that was fine.

Manafort got somewhere else to be?

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

11 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Manafort got somewhere else to be?

Based on his predilections that were recently revealed, there may be a group activity planned at prison this afternoon. 

[Ten Bears 2,479]

41 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

It's like raaaaaiiiin 

On my gangbang my wife daaaay

[SizzleChest 8,275]

[Tuco 5,076]

My assumption was that Mueller had charged Manafort with the bank fraud as a place holder until other, more treasonous, charges could be firmed up and divulged publicly.  But, as we near the beginning of the trial, it certainly seems they are intent in pushing through with the charges as is.  That's not to say they can't come back later, after he is convicted or acquitted, on the bank fraud and then tack on more charges.  But I have to think they wouldn't do it until this trial is over.  What's the expected sentence if Mueller is successful with this case?  Is this case combined with the witness tampering indictment tacked on relatively late?

As far as immune witness, I'll guess the two journalist/lobbyists that Manafort tried to reach out to while out on bail are included.  They might have some FARA implications to their actions. 

[Lagunamadre 1,975]

14 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My assumption was that Mueller had charged Manafort with the bank fraud as a place holder until other, more treasonous, charges could be firmed up and divulged publicly.  But, as we near the beginning of the trial, it certainly seems they are intent in pushing through with the charges as is.  That's not to say they can't come back later, after he is convicted or acquitted, on the bank fraud and then tack on more charges.  But I have to think they wouldn't do it until this trial is over.  What's the expected sentence if Mueller is successful with this case?  Is this case combined with the witness tampering indictment tacked on relatively late?

As far as immune witness, I'll guess the two journalist/lobbyists that Manafort tried to reach out to while out on bail are included.  They might have some FARA implications to their actions. 

If found guilty on all charges he faces up to 305 years. If guilty on all charges he will probably end up getting 20 years or so (he is 70), so pretty much a life sentence. He is fucked, if he has any info on Trump, now would be the time to strike a deal, if not, he will either die in prison or be very very old the next time he sees the outside of a prison or courtroom. 

[Chad Fuck 17,566]

Why? Trump will pardoned him.

[RomaVicta 29,786]

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Hicksy Chicks

It is so difficult to distinguish parody from sincerity these days. I take it this isn't parody. Not a bad tune. I bet they get a gig at Trump's next inauguration or coronation or whatever installment seems appropriate to our new idiot puppet masters.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

My interpretation from reports on Manafort is he is still in denial.  He really believes he is the victim in all this and will get out of it when the dust settles. 

He’s not making any deal. 

He’s a ride or die spy.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,106]

well, when you can convince your wife to be on the receiving end of a train while you watch, you should be able to convince yourself of almost anything.

[RomaVicta 29,786]

3 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Makes you wonder how many Maria Butinas there are.

I believe that should be the Latin plural Butinae.

[Lagunamadre 1,975]

6 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Why? Trump will pardoned him.

Manhattan DA would get him if that happened. They are already investigating Manafort on separate state charges. 

[TwiceHorn 31,275]

39 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My assumption was that Mueller had charged Manafort with the bank fraud as a place holder until other, more treasonous, charges could be firmed up and divulged publicly.  But, as we near the beginning of the trial, it certainly seems they are intent in pushing through with the charges as is.  That's not to say they can't come back later, after he is convicted or acquitted, on the bank fraud and then tack on more charges.  But I have to think they wouldn't do it until this trial is over.  What's the expected sentence if Mueller is successful with this case?  Is this case combined with the witness tampering indictment tacked on relatively late?

As far as immune witness, I'll guess the two journalist/lobbyists that Manafort tried to reach out to while out on bail are included.  They might have some FARA implications to their actions. 

Dont forget that this is Mueller's second bite at Manafort's apple.  The first charges brought were in the DC District Court for money laundering and failure to register as a foreign agent, etc.  The witness tampering charges were brought in that one.  It's going slower because it's arguably more complicated and because the judge, and the ED Va, where the bank fraud and tax evasion charges are, is just fast and brooks no excuses for delays, i.e. is referred to as a "rocket docket," which mostly applies to civil cases, but to have civil cases on a rocket docket implies that criminal cases are, as well.

 

So, no, those aren't the witnesses that are immunized.  I would guess that they are Manafort assistants or associates or possibly bank/lender employees that had knowledge of his income and/or understatement of same and would have criminal liability for that knowledge but for the immunity.  As posted upthread, I don't believe this case is going to admit itself of many Trumpian fireworks.  This stuff is pretty personal to Manafort.

Edited July 23, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

this poor girl...lol

 

[Tuco 5,076]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Dont forget that this is Mueller's second bite at Manafort's apple.  The first charges brought were in the DC District Court for money laundering and failure to register as a foreign agent, etc.  The witness tampering charges were brought in that one.  It's going slower because it's arguably more complicated and because the judge, and the ED Va, where the bank fraud and tax evasion charges are, is just fast and brooks no excuses for delays, i.e. is referred to as a "rocket docket," which mostly applies to civil cases, but to have civil cases on a rocket docket implies that criminal cases are, as well.

Thanks for the explanation.  Now I recall there were two judges/courts, but I was not appreciating how the cases were split out.

[kevwun 15,648]

Did she learn English at Trump University?

[TwiceHorn 31,275]

6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Thanks for the explanation.  Now I recall there were two judges/courts, but I was not appreciating how the cases were split out.

Probably worth mentioning that, for some reason that I haven't sussed out, venue for the bank fraud/tax evasion cases was not proper in DC, otherwise Mueller would have added them to the DC case.  But Manafort indicated, through counsel presumably, that he would object to venue for those charges, so Mueller brought them in Va, instead, where venue apparently was proper hence the two cases.

 

There is a general notion that delay favors criminal defendants, always, under any circumstances.  If that applies here, Manafort dun f'ed up.

Edited July 23, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Tuco 5,076]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

this poor girl...lol

 

Fuck her. 

I mean, if you have the opportunity.  She's pretty damn hot and seems fairly gullible.

[SizzleChest 8,275]

8 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Did she learn English at Trump University?

She's just one 'InsertTableHere" from being a bot.

[Mdhorn 5,911]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My interpretation from reports on Manafort is he is still in denial.  He really believes he is the victim in all this and will get out of it when the dust settles. 

He’s not making any deal. 

He’s a ride or die spy.

Then he'll get ridden till he wishes he were dead. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

They’re all banking and finance people, as expected 

[BurntOrange&White 39,655]

How do they connect to the cuck.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

4 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

How do they connect to the cuck.

5 bankers, 1 cuck. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

I don’t believe Manafort will die in prison for Trump. I think they push it to the brink, but cut a deal at the last possible moment. 

[Tuco 5,076]

I think a couple of names which have not gotten enough attention: Richard Burt and the Center for the National Interest. 

The CftNI is a think tank which set up the Butina meetings with the Fed and Commerce.  Butina wrote an opinion piece for their on-line journal "The National Interest" four days before Trump announced, which touted the advantages a Republican president could have on American-Russian relations. They hosted the Mayflower event where Trump gave use pro-Russia foreign policy speech.  Their tagline is "America's Voice of Strategic Realism," which entails promoting national security, rather than pushing American values - in contrast to the neocons. They were originally called the Nixon Center, and Henry Kissinger is still listed as the Honorary Chairman. The Board of Directors include Sen Pat Roberts, Grover Norquist, and...Richard Burt.  And their current feature article is a discussion with Paul Rand about National Security and Foreign Policy.

Richard Burt was the Ambassador to Germany under Reagan, and was one of the negotiators of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty.  Kind of a badass, as far as diplomats go.  He is currently a lobbyist for McLarty Inbound, which Burt leads.  MI went from 195k in annual lobbying in 2015, to 930k in 2016.  Of that 930k in 2016, 550k was for OAO Gazprom via the subsidiary New European Pipeline AG.  This is the group that is looking to build the second pipeline project from Russia to Germany.  Burt provided input to the Mayflower speech, provided Sessions with foreign policy white papers, and attended foreign policy dinners during the campaign.  In Akhmetshin's House testimony, he mentioned a big group dinner a couple of days after the Trump Tower meeting that included someone who he described as an ambassador to Russia during Reagan.  I assume he is talking about Burt as all of the Reagan-Russian ambassadors are dead. 

I don't think Burt is dirty, necessarily.  He registered under FARA.  But I think he likely used influence with CftNI to support his lobbying effort from a PR standpoint, and even to make introductions for Butina.  At the very least, I think it highlights how lobbying has moved past the lobbyists.  It's interesting to see the difference in how Burt discusses allies and Russia in 2014 versus 2016, after he is paid in rubbles.

[Anastasis 23,395]

21 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I don’t believe Manafort will die in prison for Trump. I think they push it to the brink, but cut a deal at the last possible moment. 

Prison is the safest place for Paulie if he has clear evidence of Trump colluding with Putin. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

44 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

They’re all banking and finance people, as expected 

Can someone break down this news for those of us who don't follow this 24/7? Is this big news? Not? 280 characters or less is fine with me.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Manafort is in a no win situation at this point.  Even if he cuts a deal, he is still going to jail for a while.  Also, I believe prosecutors want Manafort to flip on the Russian intelligence services and not so much Trump.  That’s also a death sentence.

Manafort’s only hope is to get a pardon and flee the country.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[EuroHorn 3,204]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Can someone break down this news for those of us who don't follow this 24/7? Is this big news? Not? 280 characters or less is fine with me.