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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28904

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

The bluster over 'perjury traps', 'he said, she said', "truth isn't truth" and Trump interviewing w Mueller probably relates in large part to avoiding being exposed in contrast to everything of substance they got from McGahn.  

It's because they know Trump is incapable of telling the truth. He lies constantly. Reflexively. Instinctively. It's who he is. He's been doing it his whole life. Get him under oath and he's guaranteed to perjure himself. He can't help himself. 

Oh yeah, also because he's guilty as fuck and has a lot to hide. They know that too. 

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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Goredho
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Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32543

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6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It's because they know Trump is incapable of telling the truth. He lies constantly. Reflexively. Instinctively. It's who he is. He's been doing it his whole life. Get him under oath and he's guaranteed to perjure himself. He can't help himself. 

Oh yeah, also because he's guilty as fuck and has a lot to hide. They know that too. 

 

Ayup.  Also, the President is seemingly not aware of wha perjury is and how it works:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-mueller-exclusive/exclusive-trump-is-worried-that-mueller-interview-could-be-a-perjury-trap-idUSKCN1L526P

 

Quote

The president expressed fears that investigators could compare his statements with that of others who have testified in the probe, such as former FBI Director James Comey, and that any discrepancies could be used against him. 

“So if I say something and he (Comey) says something, and it’s my word against his, and he’s best friends with Mueller, so Mueller might say: ‘Well, I believe Comey,’ and even if I’m telling the truth, that makes me a liar. That’s no good.” 

 

 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30501

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It's all about who is friends with whom in Donald's world. Why? Because a person's friends will be willing to lie and break the law for you. Trump is afraid everybody operates like he does. Thus Mueller would be a real pal to Comey and unite in their efforts to screw non-pal Trump. It's what he would do and does.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Chris Steele wins libel case over Trump/Russia dossier

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The former MI6 officer Christopher Steele has won a legal battle in the United States against three Russian oligarchs who sued him over allegations made in his famous dossier about the Trump campaign and its links with Moscow. 

The oligarchs – Mikhail Fridman, Petr Aven and German Khan – claimed that Steele and his intelligence firm Orbis defamed them in the dossier, which was leaked and published in early 2017. The Russians own stakes in Moscow-based Alfa Bank. All are billionaires. 

On Monday, a judge in the district of Columbia, Anthony C Epstein, upheld a motion by Steele to have the oligarchs’ case thrown out. Epstein did not determine whether the dossier – which a furious President Trump has repeatedly dismissed as “fake” – was “accurate or not accurate”. 

But the judge concluded that it was covered by the US first amendment, which protects free speech. He ruled that the oligarchs had failed to prove a key part of their case: that Steele knew that some information in the dossier was inaccurate, and had acted “with reckless disregard as to its falsity”.
 

 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19407

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20 hours ago, Anastasis said:

The most shocking aspect of that situation is that running a sex workshop in Thailand is illegal. 

Lot of shit in Thailand that is illegal but only enforced when the cops think they can get some baht out of the deal.  I spent a few hours in Lumpini jail in Bangkok because I didn’t have my passport on me.  Technically, foreigners are supposed to always carry their passport.  

Bar I was at got raided and they made everyone do a drug piss test.  I pissed clean so they nabbed me on the passport deal instead.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19407

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16 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

No, the most shocking aspect is that she’s still alive. 

Yep, surprised she hasn’t “committed suicide” by jumping off a high rise building, with a plastic bag tied over her head, hands bound behind her back and three bullets in the back of the head.  It happens.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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3 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

Cant Trump just pardon him?

 

Sorry if this has been asked

Maybe.  Trump can certainly try to pardon him.  Arguably, pardoning your lawyer for campaign finance violations committed on your behalf would be beyond the president's pardon power.  It would also constitute obstruction of justice.  But, who am I kidding?  Nothing trump does is an impeachable offense to the Trumpkins in Congress, and it won't matter.

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Captainant

Captainant 28387

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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There are a shitload of complications if Trump pardoned Cohen.

Things like Cohen’s ability to plead the 5th in testimony that might also incriminate the president.

Sure, but what if trump just pardons cohen from contempt of court charges for not testifying? It'd be a genuine constitutional crisis.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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Posted
1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

Maybe.  Trump can certainly try to pardon him.  Arguably, pardoning your lawyer for campaign finance violations committed on your behalf would be beyond the president's pardon power.  It would also constitute obstruction of justice.  But, who am I kidding?  Nothing trump does is an impeachable offense to the Trumpkins in Congress, and it won't matter.

The most non-controversial view is that the pardon power is virtually unlimited and the accountability for it comes in the form of impeachment.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46976

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The most non-controversial view is that the pardon power is virtually unlimited and the accountability for it comes in the form of impeachment.

That makes sense.  There are still the state courts (to whatever degree charges can be brought).

Does a pardon for a Federal offense remove the ability to plead 5A at the state level?

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Captainant

Captainant 28387

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

That makes sense.  There are still the state courts (to whatever degree charges can be brought).

Does a pardon for a Federal offense remove the ability to plead 5A at the state level?

I think that is an area of case law that is about to be fleshed out. There haven't really been any test cases like this before where the chief executive is actively trying to undermine the justice system.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That makes sense.  There are still the state courts (to whatever degree charges can be brought).

Does a pardon for a Federal offense remove the ability to plead 5A at the state level?

Good question.  I wouldn't think so, because the person is still in jeopardy.  Further, it might not work even in a federal scenario if still subject to state prosecution.  The touchstone of the 5th Amendment is self-incrimination:  if you are completely relieved of criminal responsibility, as in the case of some pardons, then you can't invoke it, otherwise you can.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90548

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Maybe.  Trump can certainly try to pardon him.  Arguably, pardoning your lawyer for campaign finance violations committed on your behalf would be beyond the president's pardon power.  It would also constitute obstruction of justice.  But, who am I kidding?  Nothing trump does is an impeachable offense to the Trumpkins in Congress, and it won't matter.

It would give the Democrats plenty of ammo for the mid-term elections, and the timing would be perfect.  Trump could try and pull the "WITCH HUNT" bullshit, but pardons involve an acknowledgement of guilt as well, and Trump would have a hard time trying to say it wasn't obstruction of justice.

But look at who we are talking about.  Trump and Giuliani trashed Cohen, and Cohen will be unemployable after this no matter what.  Cohen wants payback.

And Cohen had been preparing for this for a long time - look at all of the recordings he had.  He knew Trump would burn him in a heartbeat, and Trump hadn't been saying nice things about him lately.

Now if Trump and Giuliani had been saying all kinds of nice things about Cohen, then maybe a pardon works out.

But Trump/Giuliani trashed him too hard.

Edited by atomheartbevo
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106625

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Just now, atomheartbevo said:

It would give the Democrats plenty of ammo for the mid-term elections, and the timing would be perfect.  Trump could try and pull the "WITCH HUNT" bullshit, but pardons involve an acknowledgement of guilt as well, and Trump would have a hard time trying to say it wasn't obstruction of justice.

But look at who we are talking about.  Trump and Giuliani trashed Cohen, and Cohen will be unemployable after this no matter what.  Cohen wants payback.

And Cohen had been preparing for this for a long time - look at all of the recordings he had.  He knew Trump would burn him in a heartbeat.

Dinesh D'Souza was convicted of campaign finance violations.  Then pardoned.  And now, he's producing movies and appearing at GOP fundraisers, with his appearance celebrated.

Expect the same for the rest of 'em.  Convicted, pardoned, GOP hero.  Every.  Last.  One of them.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90548

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Just now, Brisketexan said:

Dinesh D'Souza was convicted of campaign finance violations.  Then pardoned.  And now, he's producing movies and appearing at GOP fundraisers, with his appearance celebrated.

Expect the same for the rest of 'em.  Convicted, pardoned, GOP hero.  Every.  Last.  One of them.

Trump already sent out the bat-signal that Cohen was a bad person.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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Just now, Brisketexan said:

Dinesh D'Souza was convicted of campaign finance violations.  Then pardoned.  And now, he's producing movies and appearing at GOP fundraisers, with his appearance celebrated.

Expect the same for the rest of 'em.  Convicted, pardoned, GOP hero.  Every.  Last.  One of them.

He was producing movies before he was pardoned.  Just for the record.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106625

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

He was producing movies before he was pardoned.  Just for the record.

No, I know that.  But he's cranking out new ones.  Which are being pimped HARD by the GOP machine.  It's as if he was never convicted at all.  Shit, it's a badge of honor.  The rule of law means ZERO to the GOP.  In fact, they celebrate flouting it now.  It is truly amazing to behold.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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Just now, Brisketexan said:

No, I know that.  But he's cranking out new ones.  Which are being pimped HARD by the GOP machine.  It's as if he was never convicted at all.  Shit, it's a badge of honor.  The rule of law means ZERO to the GOP.  In fact, they celebrate flouting it now.  It is truly amazing to behold.

Well, he was pretty well martyred by that bunch long before he was even convicted.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90548

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, he was pretty well martyred by that bunch long before he was even convicted.

Yeah, Cohen has not gotten that treatment.  The_Donald and the online Republicans were going after him pretty hard for having recordings.

And even if he were pardoned, that doesn't make all of his recordings/evidence go away.

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