The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Chooky 13292]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick poll...for those of us who believe the Trump admin is a criminal enterprise and needs to be taken down, will you shed a single tear if Tony Podesta and even other significant Dems go down too?

 

Because I won’t. I’m on team USA, fuck team treason, whatever their goals might have been.

Not a single tear.  I want the foreign scab of influence ripped away and dowsed in alcohol no matter who is involved.  And after this Russian influence of dung comes cratering down, I don't think we should stop there.  Every contribution of foreign donations, direct or indirect, should be highly scrutinized with the most intense microscope.  Legislators who take foreign money should have to be prepared to forfeit a vote on any foreign policy issue that has anything thing to do with support they've received from certain regions.  

And the irrational part of me actually hopes there are democrats caught in this Russian snare just so though the sleeveless MAGAS can't whine about partisan scrutiny. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

That wouldn't show you could or couldn't. 

Voting lockstep with a single party  ?  yeah it kinda does.  I've voted for both parties my entire voting life. Once for Carter, and several US Va. senators, and many many times at the state level positions.  Lock step voting is part of the reason we're where we are today politically.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13532]

Even one accepts your premise, that wouldn't have anything to do with proving you can or can't change stupid. You're simply repeating shit without understanding what it means like Brick listing things he loves. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Manafort “flipping” to use trumps own description, marks the beginning of the end of trump and his crime syndicate. He can pardon every motherfucker he wants to, including himself. That only means they go to state prison instead of federal prison, which is why Paul flipped. I know which one I would choose. 

It’s absolutely mind boggling how deep this conspiracy went. We’ve all, myself included, been tremendously naive. 

[lemonlime 5503]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick poll...for those of us who believe the Trump admin is a criminal enterprise and needs to be taken down, will you shed a single tear if Tony Podesta and even other significant Dems go down too?

 

Because I won’t. I’m on team USA, fuck team treason, whatever their goals might have been.

Absolutely not.  All those traitorous scumbags should rot in prison. And more importantly not be anywhere near the levers of power ever again.

Edit to add: also what Chooky said.  I hope there are a few dems involved so that they're all purged and there's no excuse to just blame it on partisan nonsense (of course the Trump GOP will whine about the witchhunt dem lib FBI and CIA no matter what)

Edited September 15, 2018 by lemonlime

[JimmyJames 12271]

You know Manafort flipping is bad when Fox News refuses to make it a headline on their website. I can’t wait to see the human penis hannity hauled off to jail. That is gonna be most satisfying. I’m hoping for tears during the perp walk. 

[SubliminalHorn 6633]

Everyone who is involved should go to jail. Everyone. I don’t care about their party. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13532]

And the irrational part of me actually hopes there are democrats caught in this Russian snare just so though the sleeveless MAGAS can't whine about partisan scrutiny. 

Honestly, what are the odds this even fazes them or Trump's death grip on victimhood?

[J.R. 150]

“Sleeveless MAGAS” sums it up so succinctly. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33781]

Everyone who is involved should go to jail. Everyone. I don’t care about their party. 

This. Donald is going to drain the swamp, just not the way he intended. Same with maga

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

This. Donald is going to drain the swamp, just not the way he intended. Same with maga

So yer saying Trump is the Drano of Washington ?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13389]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Mueller getting fired would be worse for Manafort.  His best way to not die in prison and get out early is to fulfill cooperation with lifelong protection.  He's got the best deal attainable right now.  No so for his co-conspirators against the US.

I meant that trump could easily neutralize Manafort by firing mueller. 

[SubliminalHorn 6633]

55 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So yer saying Trump is the Drano of Washington ?

He’s more of that giant shit you take that clogs up the toilet so now a plunger is needed to clear it all out. Mueller is the plunger. 

[bolverk 29286]

19 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

He’s more of that giant shit you take that clogs up the toilet so now a plunger is needed to clear it all out. Mueller is the plunger. 

He's little Donnie shits his pants!

 

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I meant that trump could easily neutralize Manafort by firing mueller. 

I don't see your thinking there at all.

 

It's not irrational to hope there are Dems that will be caught up in this.  I'd expect it, though it's more prevalent when you're in power for years and subjected to steady seduction and inducement by interested parties to profit in power and money from bending breaking the law.  It's human vulnerability that will ALWAYS need to held in check regardless of color, gender, preferences, or political persuasion.

The simmering has been present for decades.  Now, just as in a chemical reaction, it appears we've achieved a critical 'activation energy' for the whole corruption equation to shift across a more favorable state for everyone who cares about the systemic stability offered by adherence to domestic and international law.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So yer saying Trump is the Drano of Washington ?

Fight milk of Washington

[Continental Op 3934]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick poll...for those of us who believe the Trump admin is a criminal enterprise and needs to be taken down, will you shed a single tear if Tony Podesta and even other significant Dems go down too?

 

Because I won’t. I’m on team USA, fuck team treason, whatever their goals might have been.

Nope.  If you broke the law you can get fucked.  Don't care about the letter after your name. 

[RomaVicta 29719]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick poll...for those of us who believe the Trump admin is a criminal enterprise and needs to be taken down, will you shed a single tear if Tony Podesta and even other significant Dems go down too?

 

Because I won’t. I’m on team USA, fuck team treason, whatever their goals might have been.

Whenever a Dem has raised suspicions, I'm all for investigation and strict appliance of the law.

I think it's inevitable that some Dems will be sucked into this scandal. If they're dirty, burn 'em. 

I will say that I've wondered how many GOPs and maybe Dems have had Russian money funneled to them without their knowledge. As the scythe of scandal cuts a broad path, we'll likely lose a few good guys with all the bad ones. A pity, but worth it.

[Superhero 8710]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So yer saying Trump is the Drano of Washington ?

Everyone who consumes it will die a slow and painful death. Or so I hope.

[Mdhorn 5903]

On 9/14/2018 at 1:28 PM, Brisketexan said:

Which is why I never thought he'd flip.

Locked in a cell is better than locked in a coffin.

if you have a pardon, why would you flip?  So what about the state shit--still have to prove without doubt which allows a chance, especially with jury irrationality (most likely Democrat since 93% of the population is Democrat). I thought maybe he would be a mole for Guiliani on this since they were milking him and his lawyers for information.      

[Mdhorn 5903]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Whenever a Dem has raised suspicions, I'm all for investigation and strict appliance of the law.

I think it's inevitable that some Dems will be sucked into this scandal. If they're dirty, burn 'em. 

I will say that I've wondered how many GOPs and maybe Dems have had Russian money funneled to them without their knowledge. As the scythe of scandal cuts a broad path, we'll likely lose a few good guys with all the bad ones. A pity, but worth it.

agree but the #Me Too grabbed Frankin without a trial or an investigation which was what he was asking for.  I don't think that was right.  If he's corrupt, sure, but let it all come out.  

I hope they burn the guilty in this but really, when they allowed dark money into elections, wtf did they think would happen?  Politicians didn't want to disclose donors because they knew it was dirty.  F'k them but this will just add a layer or two between donors, not cure it.  Deregulation is all about helping the corrupt and not making agencies more efficient.  

[Mack Tripper 693]

The next indictments will likely include the two Congressmen who used hacked emails against their opponents.

[BurntOrange&White 39319]

Whenever a Dem has raised suspicions, I'm all for investigation and strict appliance of the law.
I think it's inevitable that some Dems will be sucked into this scandal. If they're dirty, burn 'em. 
I will say that I've wondered how many GOPs and maybe Dems have had Russian money funneled to them without their knowledge. As the scythe of scandal cuts a broad path, we'll likely lose a few good guys with all the bad ones. A pity, but worth it.

Probably a lot. I’d loook for the surge in contributions and the time frame of them to point out.

[TwiceHorn 31125]

7 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Yes, absolutely.

Good lawsplainer thread about Manfort's plea deal:

 

cont. 

  Reveal hidden contents

2. Each of those two counts carries a five year maximum sentence, so the maximum sentence for these guilty pleas is 10 years. Manafort agrees that under the Sentencing Guidelines, the recommended sentencing range would be above 10 years -- specifically 210-262 months.

3. Manafort agrees not to challenge that calculation, even though no sentence above 10 years could be imposed in DC. The Government agrees to recommend that the the sentence for the DC case and the Virginia convictions run concurrently.

4. The recommendation for concurrent time is not binding on either the DC or Virginia court.

5. Manafort agrees to cooperate with Special Counsel's Office (aka "the Government") and "other law enforcement authorities identified by the Government in any and all matter as to which the Government deems the cooperation relevant."

6. That means that Special Counsel Mueller can require Manafort to cooperate with state law enforcement authorities in New York or Virginia.

7. Because POTUS"s pardon power does not reach convictions under state law, that means that Manafort could be required to cooperate in prosecutions of individuals that POTUS could not pardon.

8. That creates an avenue for potential prosecution of the others (Jared Kushner, Donald Jr.) who attended the 2016 Trump Tower Meeting with the Russians that would be outside of the pardon power.

9. The plea agreement enumerates six broad categories of cooperation that Manafort is required to provide.

10. One of the things that Manafort is required to provide is "to participate in undercover activities pursuant to the specific instructions of law enforcement agents or the Government."

11. The "undercover" requirement is certainly an artifact of standard language in the template for cooperating plea agreements. No one could be so foolish as to fall for Manafort as an undercover source at this point.

12. Sentencing Leverage By Special Counsel Mueller. Manafort will not be sentenced until after his cooperation is completed. That process may take years.

13. Until the cooperation is complete, the additional charges in Virginia where the jury was hung will remain pending. After the cooperation is complete, they will be dismissed if Special Counsel Mueller is satisfied with the cooperation.

14. If the Government is not satisfied with Manafort's cooperation, it can rip up the entire agreement. Manafort agreed to the forfeiture of $45 million in assets, including his apartment in Trump Tower. This more than covers the cost of the Special Counsel's investigation.

15. In language that appears to cover the possibility of later pardon, the plea agreement specifically provides that the forfeitures "will survive him notwithstanding the abatement of any underlying criminal conviction.

16. Manafort agrees to drop his challenge to the Virginia convictions and not to appeal anything about the sentencing in the DC case. /end

 

 

 

 

 

Shit.  I read right past the statutory maximum on 18 USC 371.  So he's going to be working down from 10 years, not 20 something.  And it isn't required, but this invites Ellis to sentence not only concurrently but in view of this plea and the cooperation.

That means, to me, that there is a very substantial likelihood that he serves less than 10 years.  Quite a bit less.

Listen carefully, because you will never hear this from me again probably.  That sentence is too light.

[TwiceHorn 31125]

7 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Yes, absolutely.

Good lawsplainer thread about Manfort's plea deal:

 

cont. 

  Reveal hidden contents

2. Each of those two counts carries a five year maximum sentence, so the maximum sentence for these guilty pleas is 10 years. Manafort agrees that under the Sentencing Guidelines, the recommended sentencing range would be above 10 years -- specifically 210-262 months.

3. Manafort agrees not to challenge that calculation, even though no sentence above 10 years could be imposed in DC. The Government agrees to recommend that the the sentence for the DC case and the Virginia convictions run concurrently.

4. The recommendation for concurrent time is not binding on either the DC or Virginia court.

5. Manafort agrees to cooperate with Special Counsel's Office (aka "the Government") and "other law enforcement authorities identified by the Government in any and all matter as to which the Government deems the cooperation relevant."

6. That means that Special Counsel Mueller can require Manafort to cooperate with state law enforcement authorities in New York or Virginia.

7. Because POTUS"s pardon power does not reach convictions under state law, that means that Manafort could be required to cooperate in prosecutions of individuals that POTUS could not pardon.

8. That creates an avenue for potential prosecution of the others (Jared Kushner, Donald Jr.) who attended the 2016 Trump Tower Meeting with the Russians that would be outside of the pardon power.

9. The plea agreement enumerates six broad categories of cooperation that Manafort is required to provide.

10. One of the things that Manafort is required to provide is "to participate in undercover activities pursuant to the specific instructions of law enforcement agents or the Government."

11. The "undercover" requirement is certainly an artifact of standard language in the template for cooperating plea agreements. No one could be so foolish as to fall for Manafort as an undercover source at this point.

12. Sentencing Leverage By Special Counsel Mueller. Manafort will not be sentenced until after his cooperation is completed. That process may take years.

13. Until the cooperation is complete, the additional charges in Virginia where the jury was hung will remain pending. After the cooperation is complete, they will be dismissed if Special Counsel Mueller is satisfied with the cooperation.

14. If the Government is not satisfied with Manafort's cooperation, it can rip up the entire agreement. Manafort agreed to the forfeiture of $45 million in assets, including his apartment in Trump Tower. This more than covers the cost of the Special Counsel's investigation.

15. In language that appears to cover the possibility of later pardon, the plea agreement specifically provides that the forfeitures "will survive him notwithstanding the abatement of any underlying criminal conviction.

16. Manafort agrees to drop his challenge to the Virginia convictions and not to appeal anything about the sentencing in the DC case. /end

 

 

 

 

 

Shit.  I read right past the statutory maximum on 18 USC 371.  So he's going to be working down from 10 years, not 20 something.  And it isn't required, but this invites Ellis to sentence not only concurrently but in view of this plea and the cooperation.

That means, to me, that there is a very substantial likelihood that he serves less than 10 years.  Quite a bit less.

Listen carefully, because you will never hear this from me again probably.  That sentence is too light.

[Biff Tannen 45445]

Can we sentence them to die in cages like Madmartigan?

[yaqdum 182]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick poll...for those of us who believe the Trump admin is a criminal enterprise and needs to be taken down, will you shed a single tear if Tony Podesta and even other significant Dems go down too?

 

Because I won’t. I’m on team USA, fuck team treason, whatever their goals might have been.

absolutely not.  nor indys.  or bullmoose, tories, twats, or twinks.  totally agree with you.  whoever has this shit on their fingers needs to go down hard.

we have an opportunity here to drive a very strong message, and we can't let that get away.  no doubt mueller and his merry gang see it exactly the same.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5103]

The twinks need to be put on display for inspection before we put them away. Just saying. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by NameAlreadyInUse

[yaqdum 182]

10 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

The twinks need to be put on display for inspection before we put them away. Just saying. 

just a few to get it started.

[Ten Bears 2475]

Ewe gross

[yaqdum 182]

20 minutes ago, Ten Bears said:

Ewe gross

ain't that the truth.  how can anyone look at that and not be disgusted?  anyone normal, i mean.  maybe that is what makes it make sense.  this kind of swishery is the heart of the aggy.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33781]

Can we sentence them to die in cages like Madmartigan?

There's a peck here with an acorn, pointed at me!

[Mack Tripper 693]

On 9/15/2018 at 6:00 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Shit.  I read right past the statutory maximum on 18 USC 371.  So he's going to be working down from 10 years, not 20 something.  And it isn't required, but this invites Ellis to sentence not only concurrently but in view of this plea and the cooperation.

That means, to me, that there is a very substantial likelihood that he serves less than 10 years.  Quite a bit less.

Listen carefully, because you will never hear this from me again probably.  That sentence is too light.

Agreed, I can envision a scenario where Manafort gives up a bunch of shady Russian shit on oligarchs, Crimea, the Baltics, etc. and whatever he has on Don Jr. et al. for the next couple of years while he's in jail and ends up getting time served if the government is satisfied with his assistance. 

[Longhorn94 2425]

I think Manafort details the Russian gameplan for Georgia and Ukraine. And then explains how he was put into place as Trump's campaign manager to execute that same gameplan in the US. Working with Cambridge Analytica, Russian hackers, micro-targeting crucial voters, lock her up there, etc...  I think he lays bare how it all planned and how it worked to perfection. I think he also says something about how the Russians communicated to him that Trump was part of the team and would be good to go in much the same way as the "business" guys they ran in Georgia and Ukraine. That's my best guess and my hope...

 

I also think the same info will come out about Brexit. And then I think Russia will be sanctioned back into the stone age.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

18 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

I think Manafort details the Russian gameplan for Georgia and Ukraine. And then explains how he was put into place as Trump's campaign manager to execute that same gameplan in the US. Working with Cambridge Analytica, Russian hackers, micro-targeting crucial voters, lock her up there, etc...  I think he lays bare how it all planned and how it worked to perfection. I think he also says something about how the Russians communicated to him that Trump was part of the team and would be good to go in much the same way as the "business" guys they ran in Georgia and Ukraine. That's my best guess and my hope...

 

I also think the same info will come out about Brexit. And then I think Russia will be sanctioned back into the stone age.

There’s also a Michael Cohen factor.  It appears there was a race between Cohen and Manafort to flip on each other with Mueller.  

The Dossier alleges Cohen was running clean up/damage control for Manafort after the Panama papers came out.  If any of that is true, odds are high they both have incriminating knowledge of the other.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mdhorn 5903]

14 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

I think Manafort details the Russian gameplan for Georgia and Ukraine. And then explains how he was put into place as Trump's campaign manager to execute that same gameplan in the US. Working with Cambridge Analytica, Russian hackers, micro-targeting crucial voters, lock her up there, etc...  I think he lays bare how it all planned and how it worked to perfection. I think he also says something about how the Russians communicated to him that Trump was part of the team and would be good to go in much the same way as the "business" guys they ran in Georgia and Ukraine. That's my best guess and my hope...

 

I also think the same info will come out about Brexit. And then I think Russia will be sanctioned back into the stone age.

We assume a lot from this administration and Congress.  So much depends on the will of the people. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

[triplehorn 2664]

yep.  desperate and dumb are a very bad combo.  wait for it.

[yaqdum 182]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

yep.  desperate and dumb are a very bad combo.  wait for it.

so once again we'll all see that these lowlifes have no clue what they are doing.  again they'll think they have the silver bullet for sure this time and won't begin to understand why it didn't work.  it worked on them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

38 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

so once again we'll all see that these lowlifes have no clue what they are doing.  again they'll think they have the silver bullet for sure this time and won't begin to understand why it didn't work.  it worked on them.

It doesn’t matter what the documents say.  They will spin them to say whatever they want.  Like #releasethememo, they suffered no consequences for the backfire. 

[David Dennison 18516]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It doesn’t matter what the documents say.  They will spin them to say whatever they want.  Like #releasethememo, they suffered no consequences for the backfire. 

We'll see about that in November. I think they are going to pay a steep political price.

[Pig Bellmont 8664]

Has this been discussed?

 

He can’t even obstruct properly. Dowd was right: Trump is a goddamn dumbbell 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

12 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Has this been discussed?

 

He can’t even obstruct properly. Dowd was right: Trump is a goddamn dumbbell 

No, it’s strategic.  He’s been doing these magical fiat orders for a while.  It sends a jolt through the system and provokes confusion and hysteria while creating a distraction for political purposes.

The transgender ban

The Muslim ban 

Brennan security clearance

Even John Kelly was hired by tweet without his knowledge (per the Woodward book)

[hayden_horn 11359]

18 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Has this been discussed?

 

He can’t even obstruct properly. Dowd was right: Trump is a goddamn dumbbell 

[retread 2951]

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20341]

9 minutes ago, retread said:

 

 

Wow. Wonder what Trump was up to to get that kind of scrutiny. Must be something worse than I had imagined.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

Papadopoulos should be ignored.  Isn’t he supposed to be in prison? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

[TwiceHorn 31125]