The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Vince_McCoy_Williams 98]

3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Wait a minute, weren't you one of the captains of the Obama birther train on the site that shall not be mentioned?

No, my account wasnt even made until 2016, nice try

In fact, I denounced all of that birther BS when others tried to bring it up (go check my posting history there)

Edited April 10, 2018 by Vince_McCoy_Williams

[VRHorn 718]

3 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

This has always been a circle jerk thread where all the liberals post their daily fantasy that Trump will be impeached. Who wants to deal with that? Lol. I mean honestly, this is like the birther shit with Obama, just, admittedly, a little more substance to it and, to be fair, a slightly higher chance of something actually happening. 

You are really going all-in, aren't you. We will see, but betting on Trump at this point is not the smart bet.

That said, the Senate likely won't vote to impeach, so nothing will happen. That doesn't mean that Trump and team aren't in this up to their eyes.

[triplehorn 2664]

Quote

 

Geoffrey Berman, the US Atty who signed off on the Michael Cohen search warrants, is:

* A Republican

* A @realdonaldtrump appointee

* A max individual donor to Trump's '16 general election campaign * A former Rudy Giuliani law partner

 

* and a patriot

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

So a couple thoughts on this.  If the Cohen raid was directly related to the collusion case, Mueller wouldn't/shouldn't punt it to NY. Or maybe this is all a ruse intended to provide the cover for a case built on parallel construction. Prior to the news breaking on the Cohen raid, I suggested Mueller advocated such tactics to launder intelligence collections for domestic law enforcement use. Use the porn star payoff to crack the door, and findings from the search warrants get distributed back up to Mueller...you just laundered the NSA captures of Cohen's' email and electronic devices. The other possibility, it's a great chess move intended to establish a pardon proof state case against Cohen in NY. So I won't rule out that this all ties back into Russia, but it would be contrary to the proper handling of the investigation, and conflicting with what the off the record sources are putting out into the media. 

To be clear, Mueller didn't send this to SDNY, the No. 2 at DoJ and Trump appointee, Rod Rosenstein, made the decision.

[RPM 26343]

7 minutes ago, VRHorn said:

That said, the Senate likely won't vote to impeach, so nothing will happen. That doesn't mean that Trump and team aren't in this up to their eyes.

If they reveal some truly heinous stuff like bribery, tampering or (wait for it) collusion I think they might. The only thing stopping them would be making Pence the president. There is no telling what kind of wacky shit he would pull in the name of Jesus.

[jimmyjazz 46113]

39 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

With the events yesterday, I’m struggling to figure out the real state of the investigation. I don’t share the viewpoint that today Trump is cooked. It seems like he’s done a great job of avoiding getting his hands dirty, with people all around him doing the things that can draw charges.

If so, then Mueller is playing his last potential card to get Trump - hope that Manafort, Flynn, Cohen, etc. all tell the same story that brings down Trump. Without multiple corroborated testimonies, there won’t be clear enough evidence of guilt. Trump will skate.

Trump may skate, but in the near term it will take the cooperation of a weak Congress (as in "no impeachment").  I don't know how you can watch this man spew utter reactionary bullshit day after day after day and think he has anywhere near the intellectual wherewithal much less the temperament to run such a masterful operation in which he has others do 100% of the dirty work.  He's just not smart enough.  Come on.

[relapse98 634]

Remember when there were a lot more of you in these threads? Ever stop to wonder why your population is dwindling?

I just wonder why you reply to it. Use the ignore function, man.

[JimmyJames 12271]

25 minutes ago, longhorndude said:

To be fair swam is probably having WiFi issues again....

Haven’t heard from swammy in a while. Hope the boat didn’t sink. 

More to the point, a raid on the office and home of the presidents personal attorney that includes privileged documents doesn’t happen unless a judge is shown very strong evidence that implicates the president himself in serious crime(s). IMO what we are now hearing in the media about it is diversion. 

[triplehorn 2664]

SDNY US Atty Berman recused from Cohen investigation per DAG Rosenstein:

Quote

ABC News has learned that Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Michael Cohen investigation. 

Two sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News Berman was not involved in the decision to raid Cohen's office because of the recusal. 

The recusal was approved by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. 

The raid of Cohen's handled by others in the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and approved by a federal judge. 

 

Trump-appointed US attorney recused from Michael Cohen investigation

[TornACL 7722]

12 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

40 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Remember when there were a lot more of you in these threads? Ever stop to wonder why your population is dwindling?

I just wonder why you reply to it. Use the ignore function, man.

Why the hell should I use the ignore function? Then I can't watch certain people squirm and contort their arguments as the walls close in. What fun would that be?

PS- Don't tell me what to fucking do.

[Chrispy 132]

21 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

Sure, just like every other day was the worst, at a point it just gets ignored. I know that angry liberals are super in tune with the developments in regards to Russia and Mueller, and I am not shitting on you all, if Trump is actually guilty of collusion, then I am for his removal as well; but at this point, you all have screamed about the smoking gun so so so many times, that a majority of moderate liberals and republicans have completely tuned out this stuff. Unless something happens, a majority isnt paying that close of attention. 

I was assured that George W. was akin to Hitler and was most likely going to be tried for war crimes. So, this mass hysteria is nothing new. On both sides of the political spectrum, mind you. The daily proclamations of impending impeachment and the ensuing jubilation provides a comedic relief that is sorely needed in today’s political climate. Try as they might to obfuscate the origin of these claims with the insertion of morality, the impetus behind them is actually very simple. The individual they voted for lost. 

[triplehorn 2664]

By Trump appointee SDNY US Atty Berman being recused from Cohen investigation, it's reasonable to conclude that the Cohen FBI raids are targeting Trump himself.

I don't know the granular of this, but Berman is currently an interim appointee.  By recusing and shifting responsibility to others not yet named at SDNY, presumably career DoJ and not a political appointee, could this move serve to insulate this aspect of the investigation from firing Berman and installing an interim fixer ?

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by triplehorn

[jimmyjazz 46113]

Hey, it's a hot take from "Chrispy"!  

 

[Buzzrock 14937]

If Cohen flips, Trump is fucked. 
Cohen knows where all the bodies are buried. 
Trump will likely get a federal pardon anyway but those State crimes...

If all that they can get Cohen on is illegal campaign contributions then he won’t even do jail time. Those are fairly common and are always just a fine aren’t they?

[hobbes2702 13061]

4 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I was assured that George W. was akin to Hitler and was most likely going to be tried for war crimes. So, this mass hysteria is nothing new. On both sides of the political spectrum, mind you. The daily proclamations of impending impeachment and the ensuing jubilation provides a comedic relief that is sorely needed in today’s political climate. Try as they might to obfuscate the origin of these claims with the insertion of morality, the impetus behind them is actually very simple. The individual they voted for lost. 

Ummm no. It has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton or Gary Johnson or Bernie or Jeb. Nice but Hillary there.

It has everything to do with having the least qualified, least intelligent, lease stable person ever to sit in the Oval Office. Throw in the fact that’s he morally bankrupt, potentially compromised by a foreign adversary, and completely corrupt,  and you can see why people want him out of office. 

There’s a child running the greatest country on the planet. This isn’t hysteria. It’s reality.

[hobbes2702 13061]

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

If all that they can get Cohen on is illegal campaign contributions then he won’t even do jail time. Those are fairly common and are always just a fine aren’t they?

 

Dinesh D Souza got 8 months in a halfway house. That’s the only recent thing I remember 

[retread 2951]

Justin Hendrix ✔ @justinhendrix
 The Trump Russia probe is expanding, as Mueller looks into new meetings in Seychelles: exclusive http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/exclusive_robert_muellers_team_in_charge_of_invest.html …

1:31 PM - Apr 10, 2018

Quote

Flight records and financial documents obtained by this reporter over twelve months, as well as interviews with parliamentary and aviation officials in the Seychelles, paint a scene out of a Hollywood thriller.

Wealthy and politically-connected individuals from across the globe -- from Russia, France, Saudi Arabia and South Africa -- land in the Seychelles for meetings that take place as a part of a larger gathering hosted by MBZ, according to an individual briefed on the matter, who also requested anonymity. Many of them fly in on private jets and several do not clear customs.  Some check into the Four Seasons Hotel while others arrive and stay on their yachts.  

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by retread

[Anastasis 23481]

37 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

To be clear, Mueller didn't send this to SDNY, the No. 2 at DoJ and Trump appointee, Rod Rosenstein, made the decision.

Rosenstein signed off on sending it down to SDNY, but I don't think for one second that this was not the expressed wishes of Mueller.  As @sidis suggested earlier, I don't think Mueller wants to be anywhere close to a case where the president raw dogging a porn star is the central act. Rolling that aspect into Mueller's case would give a lot of people ammo to claim that Mueller was going far outside his appropriate scope.  

[relapse98 634]

Why the hell should I use the ignore function? Then I can't watch certain people squirm and contort their arguments as the walls close in. What fun would that be?
PS- Don't tell me what to fucking do.

Because it's a troll. It's like arguing with peanut butter.

[Jhawk 1075]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

We're still talking federal here, not state.  More I look at it, the more it seems GoLL's "taint team" theory is a strong one.  I am curious, though, that payments to hoors and campaign finance violations don't really strike me as the kind of crimes that would support such extraordinary measures.

Can someone clear up the "taint team" for me?

As far as we know, what is privileged and what isn't?  The reason I ask this is that this investigation seems to have no bounds (like manafart going down for unrelated business deals that were illegal).  If that is the case then what does the taint team really have to worry about?  If the scope is "stormy daniels" then I guess they would only search for evidence for that particular investigation.  But if the investigation is basically "anything the trump team/business/foundation/campaign did wrong" then why not just tell trump that he can't have a lawyer anymore?

I expect that this is why the attorneys of the board (even the ones that are anti-trump) have a bit of an issue with this tactic, but can someone further explain to me how this is supposed to be above board and not just a free search of everything Trump and his attorney have talked about?

[relapse98 634]

Dinesh D Souza got 8 months in a halfway house. That’s the only recent thing I remember 

Should have been deported back to whatever shithole he came from.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

2 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

SDNY likely used as “taint team” to review for privilege prior to turning docs to prosecutors, per twitterverse 

This is the consensus of the lawyer talking heads today.  No one in the main investigation will have seen the seized Cohen files until this team sends the not protected by attorney-client privilege stack to them thus preventing a 'tainted by inadmissible evidence seen' ruling against the special counsel's primary team.

Edited April 10, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[relapse98 634]

but can someone further explain to me how this is supposed to be above board and not just a free search of everything Trump and his attorney have talked about?

If any crimes were committed, I want them prosecuted. We are a country of laws. I hate judicial discretion, they should prosecute any violations. If we start ignoring our laws, then what good are they? Might as well get rid of them.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

5 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Can someone clear up the "taint team" for me?

As far as we know, what is privileged and what isn't?  The reason I ask this is that this investigation seems to have no bounds (like manafart going down for unrelated business deals that were illegal).  If that is the case then what does the taint team really have to worry about?  If the scope is "stormy daniels" then I guess they would only search for evidence for that particular investigation.  But if the investigation is basically "anything the trump team/business/foundation/campaign did wrong" then why not just tell trump that he can't have a lawyer anymore?

I expect that this is why the attorneys of the board (even the ones that are anti-trump) have a bit of an issue with this tactic, but can someone further explain to me how this is supposed to be above board and not just a free search of everything Trump and his attorney have talked about?

Edit: I'm literally just sitting here slack jawed. I cannot even wrap my mind around that post. What the actual fuck is happening right now?

Edited April 10, 2018 by Brian Fantana

[hayden_horn 11365]

i taint teamed your mother

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

22 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Can someone clear up the "taint team" for me?

You send a team not involved with the investigation so that no one in the main investigation will have seen any of the seized Cohen files until this team sends the not protected by attorney-client privilege stack to them thus preventing a 'tainted by inadmissible evidence seen' ruling against the special counsel's primary team.

Edited April 10, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Buzzrock 14937]

Should have been deported back to whatever shithole he came from.

Trump? That you?

[Buzzrock 14937]

i taint teamed your mother

Do women have taints?

[Jhawk 1075]

12 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

You send a team not involved with the investigation so that no one in the main investigation will have seen the seized Cohen files until this team sends the not protected by attorney-client privilege stack to them thus preventing a 'tainted by inadmissible evidence seen' ruling against the special counsel's primary team.

Thanks.  So given the scope of the investigation, what would be privileged and what wouldn't be?  My comment earlier basically says that with no scope then they just get to see everything and pass it all along.  The taint team would essentially be a step for just public consumption that the process is "3rd party verified".  If the investigation is russia, then would the taint team exclude evidence of wire fraud between trump foundation and DJT?  Or would they say to Mueller "look deeper, there are other crimes here" and hand over more expansive evidence?  I'm truly confused on how without a narrow scope of what can be taken how everything won't be taken.

Or maybe I have it all wrong and if the subject is russia then they can report back on everything that isn't in the scope to see if there are more crimes? But the stuff within the scope is still privileged unless the attorney himself committed a crime???

Edited April 10, 2018 by Jhawk

[Ghost of LL 15539]

19 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Can someone clear up the "taint team" for me?

As far as we know, what is privileged and what isn't?  The reason I ask this is that this investigation seems to have no bounds (like manafart going down for unrelated business deals that were illegal).  If that is the case then what does the taint team really have to worry about?  If the scope is "stormy daniels" then I guess they would only search for evidence for that particular investigation.  But if the investigation is basically "anything the trump team/business/foundation/campaign did wrong" then why not just tell trump that he can't have a lawyer anymore?

I expect that this is why the attorneys of the board (even the ones that are anti-trump) have a bit of an issue with this tactic, but can someone further explain to me how this is supposed to be above board and not just a free search of everything Trump and his attorney have talked about?

I don't really understand what you're talking about here, but for a primer on the "taint team" theory, please refer back to my post on the last page.

[Chrispy 132]

25 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Ummm no. It has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton or Gary Johnson or Bernie or Jeb. Nice but Hillary there.

It has everything to do with having the least qualified, least intelligent, lease stable person ever to sit in the Oval Office. Throw in the fact that’s he morally bankrupt, potentially compromised by a foreign adversary, and completely corrupt,  and you can see why people want him out of office. 

There’s a child running the greatest country on the planet. This isn’t hysteria. It’s reality.

Thank you. This post encapsulates the paranoid personality disorder that I was referencing. 

[hobbes2702 13061]

Just now, Chrispy said:

Thank you. This post encapsulates the paranoid personality disorder that I was referencing. 

Feel free to point out anything I said that was false. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

15 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Thanks.  So given the scope of the investigation, what would be privileged and what wouldn't be?  My comment earlier basically says that with no scope then they just get to see everything and pass it all along.  The taint team would essentially be a step for just public consumption that the process is "3rd party verified".  If the investigation is russia, then would the taint team exclude evidence of wire fraud between trump foundation and DJT?  Or would they say to Mueller "look deeper, there are other crimes here" and hand over more expansive evidence?  I'm truly confused on how without a narrow scope of what can be taken how everything won't be taken.

Or maybe I have it all wrong and if the subject is russia then they can report back on everything that isn't in the scope to see if there are more crimes? But the stuff within the scope is still privileged unless the attorney himself committed a crime???

All attorney-client communication except those involving the crime/fraud exception would be privileged and thus inadmissible.  Anything investigated due to seeing privileged communication would inadmissible. This to keep the main investigation team from seeing those things.

Edited April 10, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Brian Fantana 6690]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Feel free to point out anything I said that was false. 

He won't. He'll just keep repeating himself.

[RCRanger03 1049]

14 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Do women have taints?

 

Get acquainted with your lady's perineum, it's a fun zone.

Also it can tear in childbirth /notsofunfacttowitnesshappening

[Chrispy 132]

6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Feel free to point out anything I said that was false. 

Oh, that he’s a child, least intelligent, etc? Rather than quibble with the subjective adjectives you rattled off describing our president, which I’m sure you believe are absolute truth, I’d rather prescibe you a neuroleptic. 

[hobbes2702 13061]

6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

He won't. He'll just keep repeating himself.

Called it lol

[sidis 9832]

12 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Thanks.  So given the scope of the investigation, what would be privileged and what wouldn't be?  

Privileged: 

Email from Cohen to Trump dated whatever: "Donald, I think it makes strategic sense to respond favorably to Class Counsel's offer of settlement in the Trump University matter as their offer is in the same ballpark as actual damages.  We should go to mediation soon and determine if we can get this deal done."

 

Not Privileged:

Email from Cohen to Trump dated whatever: "Donald, I talked to Felix Sater today and Aras Agalarov and they confirmed that per your request, they will talk to Putin about you easing sanctions after the election if he loosened his grip on the St. Petersburg development this week."

[Amos Moses 795]

All attorney-client communication except those involving the crime/fraud exception would be privileged and thus inadmissible.

ALL communication? No, it’s not quite that broad.

[Jhawk 1075]

10 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

All attorney-client communication except those involving the crime/fraud exception would be privileged and thus inadmissible.  Anything investigated due to seeing privileged communication would inadmissible. This to keep the main investigation team from seeing those things.

I appreciate the response.

So where we sit is that the DA or taint team or whatever is going to hit control "F" on the inbox and files of Cohen and search "Russia" and anything they find in there that might incriminate anyone will be released.  If that is the case then there doesn't even need to be courts anymore.  Just get the tapes of the convos between client and attorney and either burn the witches or let them go.  No need for dog and pony shows.

I really don't understand how this can happen in our system.  IF YOU ASSUME that Mueller is trying to nab trump, isn't this the equivilent of Mueller saying "I couldn't find anything on you so let's just look at your communication with your attorney and see if you have talked at all about my investigation or evidence I might have missed or even maybe a recorded conversation where you say "yeah we had the help with russia, but Mueller will never find out how."  Under the assumption that mueller's job is to chop off the head of the dragon then it's hard to see how this is anything but "get trump at all costs" move.

[sidis 9832]

2 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I appreciate the response.

So where we sit is that the DA or taint team or whatever is going to hit control "F" on the inbox and files of Cohen and search "Russia" and anything they find in there that might incriminate anyone will be released.  If that is the case then there doesn't even need to be courts anymore.  Just get the tapes of the convos between client and attorney and either burn the witches or let them go.  No need for dog and pony shows.

I really don't understand how this can happen in our system.  IF YOU ASSUME that Mueller is trying to nab trump, isn't this the equivilent of Mueller saying "I couldn't find anything on you so let's just look at your communication with your attorney and see if you have talked at all about my investigation or evidence I might have missed or even maybe a recorded conversation where you say "yeah we had the help with russia, but Mueller will never find out how."  Under the assumption that mueller's job is to chop off the head of the dragon then it's hard to see how this is anything but "get trump at all costs" move.

no, you don't have a solid understanding of how this works.

[Captainant 27752]

50 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Can someone clear up the "taint team" for me?

It's the team between the asshole team and the dick team

[Mapache 1117]

BREAKING: Sarah Sanders says the White House has been advised that the president has the authority to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/983780451616743425

Wrong again Hunkabeef

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Mapache

[SDG 3319]

4 minutes ago, Mapache said:

BREAKING: Sarah Sanders says the White House has been advised that the president has the authority to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/983780451616743425

Wrong again Hunkabeef

 

Fuck I’m in the wrong thread...

Edited April 10, 2018 by SDG

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

4 minutes ago, Mapache said:

BREAKING: Sarah Sanders says the White House has been advised that the president has the authority to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/983780451616743425

Wrong again Hunkabeef

 

Is the person who advised him of that sitting in an office with no computers and the doors knocked off their hinges, by chance?

[jimmyjazz 46113]

Well, if the White House believes it, then who are we to argue?  DO SOMETHING!

[wildcat09 29377]

4 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Thanks for the info.

The reason I even brought this up is because we have talked about how the saying of “if you want an indictment then give me a grand jury.”  Meaning that once special counsel gets involved he can almost direct traffic as he wants. I’ve got 2 scenarios in my head. 

1. Mueller has nothing on trump just as he stated a week ago. He is now looking to appease the powers that be and he direct traffic to trumps lawyer. Given the proof we have that the fbi and investigators have leaked various intelligence/evidence the golden ticket isn’t about being able to prosecute trump but to leak the information between him and his attorney, maybe even through wiki to protect the investigation. This kills trump in the public eye where this trial will most likely take place. 

2. Mueller does and always has had something on trump and his comments last week were bait to try and get trump to panic in a fit of confidence. This raid was going to happen unless trump willingly handed over privileged docs. Trump might not be screwed for anything Russia/collusion related but everyone around him, or maybe even him, goes down for something completely unrelated to anything with politics. Which if he has done illegal activities then he probably should go down. 

Negged for this bullshit lie

[atomheartbevo 89784]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

If they reveal some truly heinous stuff like bribery, tampering or (wait for it) collusion I think they might. The only thing stopping them would be making Pence the president. There is no telling what kind of wacky shit he would pull in the name of Jesus.

Unlike Trump, Pence seems to care about the GOP. He would probably be dealing with a Democrat-led House, but he would probably work hard to keep the  Senate from flipping in 2020. 

[zork 629]

43 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Do women have taints?

 

It tastes like butter, but it aint.

[atomheartbevo 89784]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, if the White House believes it, then who are we to argue?  DO SOMETHING!

I think they would have already if they believed they could. There was nothing magical that happened to give Trump such power this week

. Either he had the power 2 months ago, or 6 months ago, and had been scared to try, or he doesn’t.