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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31529

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He’s the President of the United States benifiting from a Russian attack on the US and not doing anything about it. 

It just amazes me how you sugarcoat it.

I'm just looking at the facts.  I'm not as immersed in the conspiracies and whatnot as you are..  It is what it is.  What's most disconcerting is that Americans are this easily manipulated.  It's almost laughable.

Trump can't be gone soon enough for me, as well as anything resembling the current incarnation of the GOP.  I'm not going to waste any more message-board-typing or breath bemoaning either.  But I will continue to follow the criminal cases from a legal standpoint.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure any of that makes much sense.  Complaint/indictment is a formality.  Point 2 is accurate, but no one is going to appear or be arrested in any of these, I don't believe.  Point 3 is nonsense, it isn't a laundering case.

 

And the mens rea thing doesn't work, either, simply because she isn't Concord or anyone else previously charged with wrongdoing.  Their knowledge is most likely not imputable to her.

Thanks for the take.  I don't have a solid grasp of the legal terminology and implications of complaints v indictments, but a couple things I gleaned from Wheeler's remarks are that this appears to ultimately be aimed at oligarch Yevgeniy Prigozhin "Putin's Chef" and potentially Vladimir Putin, and not Concord.  Another consideration may relate to the maneuvers legal defense has at their disposal between complaint v indictment.  Recall in the matter of the initial indictment case, defense requested something like that the US turn over all the substance of intelligence gathering and methods for the past 50 years.  Perhaps by comparison the complaint creates difficulty for Prigozhin while limiting their available reactions.  Again, IANAL.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31529

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Thanks for the take.  I don't have a solid grasp of the legal terminology and implications of complaints v indictments, but a couple things I gleaned from Wheeler's remarks are that this appears to ultimately be aimed at oligarch Yevgeniy Prigozhin "Putin's Chef" and potentially Vladimir Putin, and not Concord.  Another consideration may relate to the maneuvers legal defense has at their disposal between complaint v indictment.  Recall in the matter of the initial indictment case, defense requested something like all the US turn over all the substance of intelligence gathering and methods for the past 50 years.  Perhaps the complaint creates difficulty for Prigozhin while limiting their available reactions.  Again, IANAL.

Yeah, a complaint hasn't been before a grand jury.  A defendant can insist that it go before a grand jury for actual indictment, or can waive it.  In either event, the defendant has to appear.

I assume they went for a complaint rather than an indictment because why bother the grand jury with something that will never go anywhere near trial, and they did, apparently, get to seize a bank account or two here in the US, which probably explains why under seal.

A natural person defendant has to appear in court and cannot appear through counsel alone, in normal circumstances.  So Concord could have lawyers show up and start bitching about stuff without having to actually appear and plead.  A natural person can't do that.  So yeah, it has that advantage.

And both the prior indicted entities and this lady are acting at the behest of Prigozhin, but I'm not sure how this really affects him other than bad publicity.  I guess this is more bad publicity, but it seems rather a tempest in a teapot as far as Prigozhin is concerned, directly.

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Ted Lange

Ted Lange 16113

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm just looking at the facts.  I'm not as immersed in the conspiracies and whatnot as you are..  It is what it is.  What's most disconcerting is that Americans are this easily manipulated.  It's almost laughable.

 

Advertising works. It isn’t Americans are stupid, it’s just a fact that promotion and marketing are effective. 

For those of the persuasion that, well Russia interfered, but meh, and Americans are stupid for falling for it....  Ok. this election lets have the EU drop a billion on supporting D candidates.  Would that have no effect, especially in  races decided by the thinnest of margins like, the Trump victory?

if campaign spend on advertising means so little, then. let’s suspend ALL conservative PAC spending this election cycle and see what happens.   Yeah, I’m guessing conservatives wouldn’t agree to that. 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29967

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5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I did indeed.  There's quite a bit of both sides efforts documented, although probably more Trump stuff insamuch as his people are generally weaker minded.  You wouldn't expect Natasha to report that would you?

 

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I just thought your “both sides” description wasn’t really telling the story that the Russians and Trump absolutely echo each other... which they have since the beginning.

That dynamic isn’t nearly as pronounced with prominent leaders on the left. 

And let's be clear: come down with the full force of the law on any individual implicated in this obscene corruption. Same for any organization.

Uttering, "They did it, too!" should only add years to the speaker's sentence or decimal spaces to the fine. Or shame to any cheerleader on the sideline.

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Tuco

Tuco 5077

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10 hours ago, Tuco said:


That would be huge. Any confirmation?

Not seeing any confirmation on Agalarov having his funds seized.  But did see this (not sure if previously posted):

(Edit: I see Triplehorn posted it Thursday, but no response on it.)

Quote

A Russian billionaire who orchestrated the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting formed a new American shell company a month beforehand with an accountant who has had clients accused of money laundering and embezzlement.

The billionaire, Aras Agalarov, created the US company anonymously while preparing to move almost $20m into the country during the time of the presidential election campaign, according to interviews and corporate filings.

The company was set up for him in May 2016 by his Russian-born accountant, who has also managed the US finances of compatriots accused of mishandling millions of dollars. One of those clients has its own connection to the Trump Tower meeting.

....

A month earlier, Bykov, Agalarov’s US-based accountant, had incorporated a corporation for him in Delaware, a state favoured by businesses for its low taxes and protection of corporate secrecy. Agalarov was not named in the paperwork but Bykov was listed as the company’s president and director.

BuzzFeed News reported last month that Agalarov moved $19.5m from an offshore investment vehicle to a US bank account 11 days after the meeting. The transfer was reportedly flagged to US Treasury officials as suspicious. The Delaware company used the same name, Silver Valley Consulting, as the offshore vehicle.

On the day of the money transfer, Trump fired his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, leaving his campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, in charge. Manafort, who has extensive business links to the former Soviet Union, is now cooperating with Mueller after having been convicted of financial crimes.

...

Another of Bykov’s clients is separately linked to the Trump Tower meeting. Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Kremlin-linked Russian attorney who attended the meeting, was at that time representing Prevezon Holdings, a Russian investment company. Prevezon was being sued by the US government for allegedly laundering part of $230m stolen by a Russian criminal network into upscale New York condominiums.

Corporate filings to New York state regulators show that several of the Prevezon companies allegedly used for money laundering were registered to Bykov’s offices.

During an interview earlier this year, Bykov first suggested that the Prevezon he worked with was a different company using a similar name, which was “selling some electronics”. But he later confirmed his firm “provided bookkeeping and tax services for a short period of time” for the Prevezon pursued by the US government. The company was officially owned by Denis Katsyv, a Russian businessman.

The Guardian

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Notably, no US conspirators identified, and the efforts were very "both sides."

Page 25-27

not that these were co-conspirators but three US players were acknowledged.

US ORGANIZATION 1

US PERSON 1

US PERSON 2

And their efforts were not very both sides.  

They would take both sides on issues manufactured by right wing media, therefore drowning out conversations of shit that really matters.  These accounts didn’t take both sides on topics like climate change, health care, dark money, criminal justice reform, the war on drugs, or voter suppression.

 

They enflamed the topics already being driven by  right wing media that are basically FAKE issues.

Voter fraud is not a real problem 

The national anthem debate isn’t a real issue

The 2nd amendment isn’t being threatened 

Immigrants are not over running the country 

 

I think you see these documents through a legal/criminal lens while I see them more through a counterintelligence perspective.

That’s probably why we have some different takes on this.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
On 10/20/2018 at 9:51 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Page 25-27

not that these were co-conspirators but three US players were acknowledged.

US ORGANIZATION 1

US PERSON 1

US PERSON 2

 

 

 

 

18 U.S.C. § 371  - Conspiracy to defraud the United States charges coming soon to Americans known to you.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5984

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On 10/20/2018 at 12:01 AM, Ted Lange said:

Advertising works. It isn’t Americans are stupid, it’s just a fact that promotion and marketing are effective. 

For those of the persuasion that, well Russia interfered, but meh, and Americans are stupid for falling for it....  Ok. this election lets have the EU drop a billion on supporting D candidates.  Would that have no effect, especially in  races decided by the thinnest of margins like, the Trump victory?

if campaign spend on advertising means so little, then. let’s suspend ALL conservative PAC spending this election cycle and see what happens.   Yeah, I’m guessing conservatives wouldn’t agree to that. 

Who knew propaganda works? 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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19 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

George is either seriously  afraid he’s facing additional, more severe (conspiracy) charges, or he’s cooperating and baiting.  You’d think the guy would just move on with his life otherwise, but nope.

Or he wants a lucrative career in right wing media like Diamond & Silk. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Or he wants a lucrative career in right wing media like Diamond & Silk. 

Last time I checked, D&S  didn’t voluntarily meet with the FBI,  sign a cooperative agreement “because he is guilty of the crime” and offer a sworn allocution in court that he hindered the investigation and was guilty of his crime.   But really, this says more about FoxNews fulfilling its charter as media propaganda arm of Trump/GOP than anything.  Weapons grade propaganda.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Posted

That was a fast turnaround.  From last week being defiant towards and belittling of the investigation to moves driven out of straight fear for his own already guilty hide.  Remember, his initial arrest warrant references both false statements and obstruction of justice - his lying was done “with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence" the investigation.  It's shaping up for Round 2.

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Mo Horn

Mo Horn 8853

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Posted
16 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yes, Sessions, Rosenstein, and Mueller should all be fired by next Friday.

There’s your status update. 

I'm actually expecting all this to happen.  If one or both houses flip he will do it before the new Congress is sworn in. If everything stays red he'll do it because he will consider the election a referendum on him and that Congress can't do anything about it. Mueller's days are numbered. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27726

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Posted

Here's another well-reported article on a possible attempt to smear Mueller by GOP operatives. This reporter was threatened and doxxed in the run-up to his story going live, so in my opinion that ups the credibility of it.

https://hillreporter.com/special-counsel-alerts-fbi-of-scheme-to-pay-women-to-accuse-mueller-of-sexual-assault-12207

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seven

seven 1367

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1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

It was a dead giveaway that they would start doing this shit when they accused the Ds of fabricating false claims against Justice Brett.  

Lindsay literally said Republicans would start to manufacture this stuff

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