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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that I ever used the term "mastermind". I used the term "linchpin". I think that his alleged role as foreign policy lead coordinating between Kushner, the Trump campaign, and the Russians the brokerage of the multi-billion dollar rosfnet deal, which triple alludes to above, meets that criteria. There were claims here that Sessions was literally caught on intelligence captures coordinating with the Russian ambassador and that Mueller had access to those captures and was deploying them in his interviews of Sessions.  We went from that, to Sessions has flipped and is the last firewall protecting Mueller.  Maybe that's what happened. Probably not. Either way, I think that Sessions is a huge piece of shit so good riddance for the time being. 

And that’s fair.  

I think people get caught up in the fine details too much with the “Roseneft/Sessions is a white hat”.  Obviously none of us really knows the complete level of involvement with Sessions but we know he met with Russians on the campaign and lied about those meetings.  

We can reasonably speculate possibilities as far as motivations or levels of cooperation with the Mueller investigation to help better understand the situation. But we can’t do much more than that.

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Goredho
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Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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retread

retread 2951

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It seems like Sessions could have just kept showing up for work, and nothing would have happened. I think Cheeto realizes that firing Sessions or Rosenstein would be crossing a line in the sand.

It was a precarious arrangment with Sessions and Rosenstein, but it might have continued if Cheeto didn't actually have the stomach to fire him.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23472

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7 minutes ago, retread said:

It seems like Sessions could have just kept showing up for work, and nothing would have happened. I think Cheeto realizes that firing Sessions or Rosenstein would be crossing a line in the sand.

 

Can you really blame anybody trying to distance themselves as much as possible from this shit show? It's not like that AG money is life changing. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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8 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

I have seen a lot of tweets like that which exclaim "Trump does X, Mueller saw this coming a mile away and must have done A,B,C and D months ago because he knew it would happen!!!"  It just seems contrived, like they are writing a book of fiction and making him out to be some Batman type of superhero fighting against the Riddler. It's overzealous to say the least, and likely foolish to think he's some impenetrable force with a crystal ball and a 6th sense for everything.

Although, the fabricated sexual allegation plot does appear to be evidence that he does have some serious shit on Trump Co., and they don't have any legitimate recourse for his investigation. Not sure how much Trump and Co. had to do with that, if anything, but it reeks of desperation. 

It’s not so much that he has a crystal ball.  

It’s that Trump and his surrogates have spent over a year bitching and moaning in public about how Mueller is on a witch hunt, that what Mueller is doing is illegal, etc. etc.

its very, very safe to say that the moment Trump began bitching about Mueller being on a witch-hunt, that Mueller planned accordingly.   Trump has been broadcasting his intentions from the beginning like a toddler.

Or to put it another way, if the CEO of your company was publicly bitching about you on twitter, rambling about how you shouldn’t be doing what you’re doing, that your boss’s surrogates were publicly moaning about you, wouldn’t you assume at some point that your boss would sprout a micro-pair of balls and have his chief of staff fire your boss’s boss, and put somebody in that might try and fuck with you?

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A person close to Sessions, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be frank, said the attorney general shared the president’s frustration with the pace of the Russia inquiry and wished that it had been completed. But Sessions also thought that by staying in the job, he had protected the investigation’s integrity, the person said. In the long run, Sessions is convinced that the country will be better served by the investigation proceeding naturally, as the findings will be more credible to the American public, the person said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-resigns-at-trumps-request/2018/11/07/d1b7a214-e144-11e8-ab2c-b31dcd53ca6b_story.html?utm_term=.1839ebc30835

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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8 hours ago, triplehorn said:

I'm not seeing how firing Sessions allows any conclusions to be drawn.  The same range of possible roles is still on the table.  Firing him doesn't mean he's now suddenly going to snitch if he's guilty of coordinating.  Firing him also doesn't change anything if he's guilty and a cooperating witness.  He also could know noetzing, and say noetzing.  His firing doesn't reveal anything except Trump's panicked desperation.

We also have to take into account something else: Trump felt betrayed by the recusal.  He said precisely that on twitter one or more times.  He’s been angry since then, doing what he could to publicly humiliate and hasarras Sessions.  

This could simply be Trump freaking about the House and the losses in Michigan, Pennsylvania is, and Wisconsin, wanting a diversion, and he sees Sessions walking by, and his brain immediately fixates on Sessions.  

Sessions has nothing to do with Trump being humiliated Tuesday night, but Trump mad, Trump want to smash.  Trump want John Kelly fire Sessions. 

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Anastasis

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Just now, retread said:

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-resigns-at-trumps-request/2018/11/07/d1b7a214-e144-11e8-ab2c-b31dcd53ca6b_story.html?utm_term=.1839ebc30835

 

"Sessions told confidants earlier this week that he expected Trump to fire him or push him out soon after the midterm elections, and friends urged him to quit and consider running again for a Senate seat in Alabama. A person close to Sessions said he is considering doing so."

 

Could he just away?

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Anastasis

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Just now, atomheartbevo said:

We also have to take into account something else: Trump felt betrayed by the recusal.  He said precisely that on twitter one or more times.  He’s been angry since then, doing what he could to publicly humiliate and hasarras Sessions.  

This could simply be Trump freaking about the House and the losses in Michigan, Pennsylvania is, and Wisconsin, wanting a diversion, and he sees Sessions walking by, and his brain immediately fixates on Sessions.  

Sessions has nothing to do with Trump being humiliated Tuesday night, but Trump mad, Trump want to smash.  Trump want John Kelly fire Sessions. 

The narcissist angle is usually the right angle with Trump. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 He’s been angry since then, doing what he could to publicly humiliate and hasarras Sessions.  

 

Sessions getting hasarras sounds like sharia law applied with a Mexican bull whip.  Sounds about right.

I agree this seems impulsive and not thought through.  I haven’t heard anything formal on what Rosenstein is doing right now.  Lawfully he’s the acting AG.  Whitaker can’t just be placed in a cabinet position without associated Senate confirmation.  He’s a prior scammer Trump spotted on tv.

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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Sessions was pretty much a dead man walking when he recused himself from the investigation.  Trump would not have nominated him if he knew he would recuse and would have fired him right then if not for the amazingly bad political optics.  Trump wants an AG like Obama had in Holder/Lynch.  People are making way too big of a deal about this.  It will not have any effect on Mueller.  The investigation is so far down the road that nothing will stop it at this point.  Mueller will get to tell his story, for better or worse, in its entirety.

 

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Jack

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18 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We also have to take into account something else: Trump felt betrayed by the recusal.  He said precisely that on twitter one or more times.  He’s been angry since then, doing what he could to publicly humiliate and hasarras Sessions.  

This could simply be Trump freaking about the House and the losses in Michigan, Pennsylvania is, and Wisconsin, wanting a diversion, and he sees Sessions walking by, and his brain immediately fixates on Sessions.  

Sessions has nothing to do with Trump being humiliated Tuesday night, but Trump mad, Trump want to smash.  Trump want John Kelly fire Sessions. 

The better explanation is that Trump decided to fire Sessions a long time ago but planned to wait till after the midterms to not give Democrats the political ammo.  Most people view the Russia investigation as bullshit but he didn't want to energize the Democrats ahead of the midterms.

People have politics fatigue at this point. They are happy the commercials are over and are focused on football, NHL, Basketball and/or Thanksgiving/Christmas plans.  It's a fantastic time for him to fire Session, push through recess appointments and revoke press credentials for Jim Acosta.  People are only willing to consume so much political talk right now.

All of this was planned regardless of the outcome of the election.  Even the Acosta thing.

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Captainant

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Huh, even Fox news is calling bullshit on the "acting AG" appointment.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/415686-fox-news-judicial-analyst-trump-acting-ag-does-not-qualify-under-the

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"There’s only three ways a person can become acting attorney general," Napolitano said. "One, if you are the deputy attorney general - Rod Rosenstein -- the president signs an executive order and makes you acting."

"Two is if you are already in the Department of Justice and have a job that requires Senate confirmation and you have received confirmation," Napolitano added. "That is not the case with Matt Whitaker because he’s the chief of staff. That does not require Senate confirmation."

Whitaker's most recent post was chief of staff to Sessions at the Justice Department.

"Three is a recess appointment, which is not relevant here because the Senate is not in recess," Napolitano continued.

"So with deference and respect to what the president’s trying to do -- he has every right to have whoever he wants run the Justice Department -- he has chosen someone who does not qualify under the law to be the acting attorney general," Napolitano added.

 

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sheeeit

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

And that’s fair.  

I think people get caught up in the fine details too much with the “Roseneft/Sessions is a white hat”.  Obviously none of us really knows the complete level of involvement with Sessions but we know he met with Russians on the campaign and lied about those meetings.  

We can reasonably speculate possibilities as far as motivations or levels of cooperation with the Mueller investigation to help better understand the situation. But we can’t do much more than that.

Quote

Anastasis is being provocative here trying to pretend people claimed Sessions was some mastermind in the grand conspiracy.  No one made that claim. The Russians clearly tried to compromise Sessions with the meetings he later lied about, maybe they tried to bribe or blackmail him too.

Anastasis is being provocative?  You have referenced twice about these secret meetings that Sessions lied about and you know well that he did not deliberately lie about them and that the "meetings" to which you are referring to are total nothings.  

Sessions had 1 meeting with Kisylak in his senate office with his senate staff as well as 2 senior defense officials.  It certainly seems unlikely that Kisylak and Sessions colluded on the upcoming election in a meeting with 5 other people including 2 who had no direct connection to Sessions.  During that stretch Kisylak met with dozens of senators and Sessions met with dozens of foreign ambassadors.  And, as you also know, the FBI told Sessions he did not need to disclose meetings with foreign officials he met with in his capacity as a senator on his SF86.

The other 2 "meetings" were nothing more than PUBLIC appearances where Sessions and Kisylak both happened to be at and they exchanged "pleasantries".  Which, of course, is completely normal for the Russian Ambassador.

This is just so typical of the entire collusion angle.  There is nothing at all nefarious or immoral or illegal or unusual about Sessions "meetings" with Kisylak.  Nothing.  Yet people twist and turn it and the media fuels the speculation and suddenly Sessions is colluding with Russia.  

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Agent47

Agent47 157

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47 minutes ago, Jack said:

The better explanation is that Trump decided to fire Sessions a long time ago but planned to wait till after the midterms to not give Democrats the political ammo.  Most people view the Russia investigation as bullshit but he didn't want to energize the Democrats ahead of the midterms.

People have politics fatigue at this point. They are happy the commercials are over and are focused on football, NHL, Basketball and/or Thanksgiving/Christmas plans.  It's a fantastic time for him to fire Session, push through recess appointments and revoke press credentials for Jim Acosta.  People are only willing to consume so much political talk right now.

All of this was planned regardless of the outcome of the election.  Even the Acosta thing.

Lol. The Russian investigation is hardly bullshit. There's already been a slew of indictments and Trump is CLEARLY panicking.

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triplehorn

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37 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Huh, even Fox news is calling bullshit on the "acting AG" appointment.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/415686-fox-news-judicial-analyst-trump-acting-ag-does-not-qualify-under-the

 

Still no word on the actual status of Rosenstein and established lawful succession as acting AG.  Right now, Trump saying an AG chief of staff, Whitaker, is acting US AG carries about as much substance as trump ordering 15k troops to the border, or any number of other wild declarations Trump has made that amounted to nothing more than a brief headline in a 24hr news cycle.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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So again is Trump, "The King" or incompetent, cheeto, moran, dotard, dipshit?
Is he the king of 4D political chess or a loudmouth jackass?
 
No fucking way the answer is both.
 


History is littered with idiot kings. It’s a title, not a complement. No one but brain dead Trumpsters think he is a 4D chess master.
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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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What the fuck are you talking about? You responded to a quote about having only one shot at the king.
King George the 3rd was certifiably insane. Do you think that would have mattered for anyone trying to take shot at him? “Oh, he’s crazy, so I’ll have time to reload.”

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17683

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6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

That's the point.

It is impossible to square the lefts rhetoric on Trump/Mueller.  

He's a human being.  He's really good at some things (media manipulation, fear, division, for example) and really bad at others (critical thinking, logic, etc.).

 

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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

That's the point.

It is impossible to square the lefts rhetoric on Trump/Mueller.  

Not really.  The guy was 'King' of his family business and got away with cheating on taxes ("allegedly"), money laundering ("allegedly"), and not paying his debts for years (proven).  He assumed he could do the same in the public sphere because he knows no other way but to cheat, lie, and scam.  When you do that during and election or in office, it is illegal.  Simple really.  

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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To me, that means little. A bunch of Trumpkins freaked out that Comey had a draft on Clinton prior to all interviews being in. I think you need to write a draft of a report to vet where the holes are, and identify what needs additional investigation and verification.


But the fact that it’s being leaked is interesting. Turn up the heat.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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12 minutes ago, F250 said:

So does this mean the other shoe is about to drop?

This story should be taken with an extremely high level of skepticism given the sourcing which isn’t from Mueller’s team as far as we know.  

Lots of motivations from many parties to create the appearance Mueller is about to wrap things up.

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AtticusFinch

AtticusFinch 155

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1 hour ago, Agent47 said:

Lol. The Russian investigation is hardly bullshit. There's already been a slew of indictments and Trump is CLEARLY panicking.

Have any Americans been indicted for collusion? I havent kept up on current events. How is the case against the Russians indicted going?

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AtticusFinch

AtticusFinch 155

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30 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 


To me, that means little. A bunch of Trumpkins freaked out that Comey had a draft on Clinton prior to all interviews being in. I think you need to write a draft of a report to vet where the holes are, and identify what needs additional investigation and verification.


But the fact that it’s being leaked is interesting. Turn up the heat.

 

I dont think there was a draft indictment against Hillary by Comey.  There was in regards to Whitewater, not by Comey 

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This story should be taken with an extremely high level of skepticism given the sourcing which isn’t from Mueller’s team as far as we know.  

Lots of motivations from many parties to create the appearance Mueller is about to wrap things up.

Yes, it is a pretty much meaningless tweet, considering the Mueller team started "writing" its report from day 1

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28783

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2 hours ago, Agent47 said:

Rudy as AG would be uproariously fun.

No it wouldn't. This isn't a game. The whole world is watching and we already look like idiots. Don't be fooled into thinking it's just another reality tv show. There are real world ramifications that result from the example set by America that can actually lead to matters of life and death. Donald Trump is the poster child for dictators everywhere.

Trump making Rudy AG would be almost as bad as when Dubya wanted to nominate his personal attorney Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. (Kind of another way in which the Bush 43 presidency foreshadowed all of this.)

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