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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted

The real problem is the existence of the Espionage Act.  Everyone knows this thing is likely unconstitutional and it's often abused by the worst people for bad reasons, but why aren't the civil libertarian types like Amash and Rand Paul pushing for its repeal?  Kind of gives the game away.  

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17655

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41 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

So then then there was no constitutional violation in preventing non-US citizens from entering the country via Trump's Muslim ban?  These were noncitizens outside of the US (you aren't "in" the US until you pass through customs) complaining of first amendment violations.  I assume you supported Trump on that one.

No. The argument wasn't that the Constitutional rights of foreign nationals were being violated, it was that the rights of citizens and lawful residents were being violated because the travel ban affected them directly or indirectly through family members. The other argument was that Trump exceeded the power delegated to him by Congress. 

Quote

Although foreign nationals seeking admission have no constitutional right to entry, this Court has engaged in a circumscribed judicial inquiry when the denial of a visa allegedly burdens the constitutional rights of a U. S. citizen.  That review is limited to whether the Executive gives a “facially legitimate and bona fide” reason for its action. . .[.quote]

Trump v. Hawaii, No. 17-965, 585 U.S. ___.

Edited by Dahobbs
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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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17 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No. The argument wasn't that the Constitutional rights of foreign nationals were being violated, it was that the rights of citizens and lawful residents were being violated because the travel ban affected them directly or indirectly through family members. The other argument was that Trump exceeded the power delegated to him by Congress. 

That argument related to whether those particular plaintiffs had standing to sue.  There were also defenses made of the ban at the time that the first amendment was not implicated because it denied entry to noncitizens abroad, such as Rand Paul's argument that the first amendment doesn't apply to people who have not yet come into our country.  However, that is not true because the first amendment is a constraint on what Congress has the power to do, irrespective of whether the target is a US citizen here or a noncitizen abroad.  See Bush's USAID's anti-prostitution pledge rule that was knocked down by SCOTUS as an example.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32416

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https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-cheney-aide-in-muellers-sights-as-probe-expands?ref=home

 

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Dick Cheney’s former top national-security aide has come under scrutiny from special counsel Robert Mueller, two people with knowledge of the probe tell The Daily Beast. It’s the latest sign that Mueller’s probe has expanded beyond the narrow bounds of Russian interference in American politics.

Mueller’s team has been looking into the communications and political dealings of John Hannah, the former Cheney adviser who later worked on Trump’s State Department transition team. This includes interactions with Lebanese-American businessman and fixer George Nader, who brokered meetings between foreign dignitaries and Team Trump, and Joel Zamel, a self-proclaimed social-media guru with deep ties to Israeli intelligence. The Daily Beast previously reported that the three men met with a top Saudi general in the days leading up to Trump’s inauguration to discuss plans to undermine and overthrow the government of Iran.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89779

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1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I 'member a time when Julian Assange was disliked by Republicans with great displeasure.

Then 2016 happened.

I remember when Snowden was liked by Republicans for exposing what BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA's intelligence agencies were doing.

Then 2016 happened.

The irony is that Snowden revealed the closest thing to the DEEP STATE that the Republicans could conjure up.

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Theo Huxtable

Theo Huxtable 48

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1 hour ago, DanRydell said:

I agree completely that prosecuting Assange merely for publishing stolen classified documents would violate the First Amendment. But let's wait and see if that's actually what he's being prosecuted for before clutching our pearls.

He is not a US citizen. That's a pretty big differentiator when it comes to who is granted the rights of the constitution.

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F250

F250 28814

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Posted
1 hour ago, DanRydell said:

I agree completely that prosecuting Assange merely for publishing stolen classified documents would violate the First Amendment. But let's wait and see if that's actually what he's being prosecuted for before clutching our pearls.

I agree as well but I don't think anyone is really clutching pearls but just stating what would be a dangerous precedent. The statements released by various rights groups are not issuing a blanket defense of WL and Assange but just saying what specific situations would be unconstitutional and where to expect legal pushback.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8725

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36 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Okay, that would be hilarious if the Mueller investigation led to negotiations with Russia where we got back American citizens being held by Russia and Trump then publicly took credit for it all.

The heads exploding on every side would be interesting.

I think it’s more along the lines of whether she has credible intel helpful to the investigation and whether she can be trusted. If she does cooperate I’d imagine witness protection, bc returning to Russia would be a death sentence. They don’t have much use for outed spies with big mouths 

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5984

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

I remember when Snowden was liked by Republicans for exposing what BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA's intelligence agencies were doing.

Then 2016 happened.

The irony is that Snowden revealed the closest thing to the DEEP STATE that the Republicans could conjure up.

Deep state is the Republicans.  Every accusation is a confession.  

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

What if Fox News had been DMing Assange, and that's why their twitter went silent.

The initial filing at EDVA that mistakenly references Assange being charged occurred in August '18, but was unsealed last week.  WSJ first reported last night the prospect that Assange has been charged (without mention of the unsealed filing) then this morning Seamus Hughes highlighted the section in the filing and posted it to twitter.  Since the filing was unsealed last week, it would pre-date Wiki, Nat Enq, Drudge, Fox News et al going dark.  An association between the file being unsealed and ensuing twitter darkness seems reasonable. 

Pretty much everything points to Wiki, Stone, and DonJr, in particular, with assists from Fox News, Nat Enquirer, Drudge et al, being involved in coordinated political attacks using timed messaging and amplification of stolen information and shared fake news generated by hostile foreign actors.  

It's also worth noting that the Assange charges appear to run through EDVA, not Mueller's DC location.  EDVA is where federal cases pertaining to National Security, Counterintelligence (terrorism and espionage), and FISA are heard.

 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32416

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36 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

What if Fox News had been DMing Assange, and that's why their twitter went silent.

What rational thinking person would ever doubt that has happened?  

The Rules of Engagement changed sometime in 2016.  Fox went from an adversary towards Assange towards welcoming on air the revelations his platform would provide.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89779

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3 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

What rational thinking person would ever doubt that has happened?  

The Rules of Engagement changed sometime in 2016.  Fox went from an adversary towards Assange towards welcoming on air the revelations his platform would provide.

What triplehorn posted was very interesting, and the revelation does follow the timeline of all of those entities going dark on twitter.

Fox News was pushing the notion that this was all just Democrat vs Republican, but you kind of lose that angle when you're taking information stolen by the Russians, particularly when that information is released in parts, and those parts are released at times that maximize the damage (i.e Hillary had taken a big jump in the polls or whatever).

Or to put it more plainly, it's not a case of "Here's all of Hillary's emails!", it's "Hey, Hillary is getting ahead in the polls, here's a selection of her emails!"

It also makes me wonder if that's why Trump keeps going back to the email thing.  Projection and all of that.

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