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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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9 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

It won't make a shit either way, but Trump pardoning Flynn would be the dumbest boobytrap for both ever.  House subpoenas clear for takeoff next month.

I hope you're right, but sadly I'm feeling briskety.  The trump admin ignores the subpoenas.  The Kavanaugh/Gorsuch/Thomas SCOTUS then okays it.  And if they don't okay it, well, then, trump still ignores the subpoenas.  It's not like the Senate GOP is going to impeach him.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4783

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MSNBC anchor predicts Robert Mueller will let Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump, Jr. avoid prison if their dad resigns

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/msnbc-anchor-predicts-robert-mueller-will-let-ivanka-trump-donald-trump-jr-avoid-prison-dad-resigns/#.XBhV8Ktid9g.twitter

 

I really don't understand this train of thought.  Why not go for the jugular and toss every one of these grifting fucks in the pen?   Why just wipe the slate clean if he agrees to resign?   What happens to all the other cases?  Mueller can't pull the plug on the state cases, right? 

I just don't get it.

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Just now, lemonlime said:

I hope you're right, but sadly I'm feeling briskety.  The trump admin ignores the subpoenas.  The Kavanaugh/Gorsuch/Thomas SCOTUS then okays it.  And if they don't okay it, well, then, trump still ignores the subpoenas.  It's not like the Senate GOP is going to impeach him.

2020 election is less than 24 mo away.  GOP can choose to continue to obstruct and with treasonous intent accept ongoing RU incursion. 

If that's the case,  fucking let it bleed.

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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2 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I really don't understand this train of thought.  Why not go for the jugular and toss every one of these grifting fucks in the pen?   Why just wipe the slate clean if he agrees to resign?   What happens to all the other cases?  Mueller can't pull the plug on the state cases, right? 

I just don't get it.

I don't either, but I can speculate: if Trump agrees to resign voluntarily, the likelihood of civil unrest drops significantly.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23355

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3 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I really don't understand this train of thought.  Why not go for the jugular and toss every one of these grifting fucks in the pen?   Why just wipe the slate clean if he agrees to resign?   What happens to all the other cases?  Mueller can't pull the plug on the state cases, right? 

I just don't get it.

It would be best for the country if Trump quietly resigned.  

I'm all about dispensing justice but there is a greater good here. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29261

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3 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? predicts Trump would rather his kids be flayed alive than to inconvenience himself in the slightest, let alone resigning. 

What's your prediction on the kids flipping on their felonious father? Because if all roads lead through them to get to dotard, then their only "get out of jail free" card would be to do so.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45430

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don't see the Trump presidency ending any other way except him resigning. 

Seriously, think about it.  Play out all the scenarios.  He will need a pardon the second he leaves office. 

That won't happen unless he resigns. 

 

You're trying to use logical thought processes to predict what Donald Trump might do.

That's funny.

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Goredho

Goredho 17272

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1 hour ago, Bevo VIII said:

Fucking love that whole movie

 

 

The interesting thing to look at would be did trump pushing the narrative come before or after the memes and talking points were pushed by the Russians.

Tangent alert:  Same.  Its a rare movie that holds up 25 years later without being the least bit nostalgic.  Plus, it opened the doors for a huge number of other excellent unconventional movies that may not have been made if Pulp Fiction wasn't the success it was.  It may be the biggest best-picture robbery of all time.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23355

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're trying to use logical thought processes to predict what Donald Trump might do.

That's funny.

He's actually very predictable and I've been correct on many of my unpopular predictions. 

I think I was the only one saying he wouldn't fire Mueller a year ago.  Check.

I said he would continue the PR campaign to discredit the investigation in attempt to sway public opinion to his side.  Check.

As much as he lies, he's incredibly transparent. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23355

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2 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

The interesting thing to look at would be did trump pushing the narrative come before or after the memes and talking points were pushed by the Russians.

Going back to the campaign, Trump and the Russians echoed each other.  Some narratives originated with the Russians (deep state, globalist, anti-Muslim, anti-NATO, lock her up, pro-Russia messaging).  Other narratives were developed by Manafort/Bannon/Trump and then pushed by the Russians (drain the swamp, build the wall).

They have always had a symbiotic relationship. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29261

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3 minutes ago, retread said:
7 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:
They’re hoping additional cooperation and testimony will help the Court decide on no jail time, which isn’t guaranteed 

Are they expecting some really damning facts to come out? He's been 'cooperating' for a year. Must be some bad stuff.

I think this is your answer, but I can't recall what the Alexandria investigation is.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8664

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5 minutes ago, retread said:
8 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:
They’re hoping additional cooperation and testimony will help the Court decide on no jail time, which isn’t guaranteed 

Are they expecting some really damning facts to come out? He's been 'cooperating' for a year. Must be some bad stuff.

I think Flynn’s lawyer figures the only thing left he could do is testify in the Turkish lobbying case unsealed yesterday 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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7 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

There's an interesting Catch-22* here with Special Counsel.  It's fun to see them hang, but the whole "cooperate and you'll live" thing goes out the window if it looks like judges won't uphold it.

 

*don't be pedantic.

There's benefit for the SC here, too, though. Mueller's recommendation of going easy on Flynn forces Trump to adjust his narrative. With Manafort, his spin was that the conflicted Mueller and his band of angry Democrats were coercing Manafort and others into making false confessions to ultimately build a case against Trump. Now Mueller appears to have been going easy on Flynn, and in addition, the judge got to tell a story that Mueller could not: namely, how disgusted he was when we was confronted with the truth of Flynn's actions.

This might cast dispersion into Trump's "the deep state (special council) is out to get me" story.

Edited by ndawg
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29704

Posted
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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And 40% of Americans are just fine with it.  They happily collaborate (and that's actually the EXACTLY correct verb) with a foreign government to secure power.  They are collaborators.  Holy shit, that's a real thing, happening right now.

9a52cb80f4ac267521c18dd2f4ceab4f.gif

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

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32 minutes ago, bolverk said:

So, they're hoping they can get more out of him during the meantime now that the judge has threatened jail time?

it would appear that flynn has done just about everything he can do for mueller, etc but that there is much cooperation that cannot be disclosed right now.  in the wait, their hope is that additional information will tip the scales a bit.

edit:  i mean, it's clear that mueller is pleased with his cooperation.  knowing full well what the judge has learned and, no doubt, much, much more.  if three-sticks is recommending going light, i'm sure there's a lot still to come out.

Edited by yaqdum
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29704

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

There is zero chance it doesn't end in violence.  I have been scolded multiple times around here for suggesting this, because "those fatasses aren't motivated to get off their couches for anything but war games and Trump rallies".  Bullshit.  The violence may not become widespread, and it hopefully won't escalate to civil war, but you can be damn sure that there is a significant fraction of that 40% who will gladly start waging guerrilla warfare -- terrorism, if you will -- against what they perceive as liberal targets.  Planned Parenthood, Democratic politicians, businesses that advocate for LGBT rights, you name it.  It's coming. 

I have to agree with this. There won't be assemblies of armed citizens fighting against the Army. There will be terrorism self-identifying as freedom fighting. The nut jobs will be cheered on by the 40% that loves to vicariously experience badass violence.

I keep seeing the movie Brazil where explosions become common place in a world that doesn't make any sense. We'll get rid of this fascist group, but what do the people want in the face of domestic terrorism? They want stronger police, fewer rights for the accused, and a national authority getting tough. We may get fascism either way.

Lastly, I was thinking about the musings about Pelosi becoming president. What if she appoints H. Clinton as VP and then resigns herself to correct the injustice of the last election? The attempts on Clinton's life would likely be monthly. Consider that. A substantial minority of the country wanting a president dead.

This story is just beginning, my very good friends. 

Edited by RomaVicta
Question mark failure. Shame and disaster all around.
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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

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1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

This story is just beginning, my very good friends. 

we are entering the juicy part of the story.  those of you who are young and who survive this will have campfire stories to scare your g-kids with for many summers.

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11779

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5 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Some of the talking heads are wondering if the judge is worried that if he sentenced Flynn and Trump immediately pardoned him would all of Flynn's cooperation stop.

Wondering if they are trying to get Flynn to agree to testify against the president if it comes to that.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32290

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8 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Some of the talking heads are wondering if the judge is worried that if he sentenced Flynn and Trump immediately pardoned him would all of Flynn's cooperation stop.

I don't believe that is the case.  Pardoning someone does not block their future cooperation; in fact, it compels it because their crimes have already been pardoned.

Edit:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/02/if-youre-pardoned-can-you-be-compelled-to-testify-about-your-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fa048ee7d07f

 

Quote

A friend of mine asked me this question, so I researched it; the answer, turns out, is yes: A person may refuse to testify, even when subpoenaed, on the grounds that the testimony may expose him to criminal liability. But if the prospect of criminal liability disappears — whether because he has been granted adequate immunity by prosecutors, or because he has accepted a presidential pardon — then the privilege against self-incrimination also disappears. “f the witness has already received a pardon, he cannot longer set up his privilege, since he stands with respect to such offence as if it had never been committed.” Brown v. Walker (1895); see also, e.g., Nixon v. Sampson (D.D.C. 1975) (yes, that Nixon). (Remember that, as with President Richard Nixon, a pardon can preclude future criminal prosecutions, and not just erase past ones.)

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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