The Robert Mueller Investigation

[lemonlime 5,503]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So let's say Mueller drops his report and it's a fucking bombshell.  House will impeach I'm sure.  What will it take for the Senate to act?  People marching in the streets?

Nothing.  They won't act.  After convincing their base that Pelosi is on a par with bin Laden, there's no way they'll risk making her president.

[triplehorn 2,664]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So let's say Mueller drops his report and it's a fucking bombshell.  House will impeach I'm sure.  What will it take for the Senate to act?  People marching in the streets?

The wild card is, if and when Mueller makes a decisive move, the conspiracy engulfs members (and ex-members) of Congress on the ruble money laundering side of the equation.  GOP Senate will not be able to get away with inaction if their own are pegged as complicit beneficiaries with Trump/Russia.

 

[Brisketexan 106,296]

3 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Nothing.  They won't act.  After convincing their base that Pelosi is on a par with bin Laden, there's no way they'll risk making her president.

This.

Any scenario that involves the Senate acting in the best interests of the rule of law and the American people is pure fantasy.  There is literally no possible scenario in the real world that will cause them to turn on Trump (as I've explained before, the GOP base is all-in on Trump and will never turn on him, and thus politicians who depend on that base to be elected will never turn on him.  Ever.)

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

GOP Senate will not be able to get away with inaction if their own are pegged as complicit beneficiaries with Trump/Russia.

Why not?  Who will stop them?  I'm not trying to go out on Brisket's ledge, but the only thing I think that could stop them is torches and pitchforks and I don't think Americans will do that en masse.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So let's say Mueller drops his report and it's a fucking bombshell.  House will impeach I'm sure.  What will it take for the Senate to act?  People marching in the streets?

What should happen:

The democrats will need to go into DEFCON 1 all out political warfare on the Republicans for not acting. They will need to repeatedly highlight the GOP cowardice over and over again.  Rub their fucking faces in the dogshit that Trump is.  This is a battle for the soul of the country and the democrats can’t let this go unaddressed.

 

What will happen:

The Democrats will out think themselves to doing jack shit in the name of “decorum and civility”.  They don’t want to come off too devisive and exacerbate the polarization.

They will let the GOP walk all over them. 

[Chad Fuck 18,035]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Why not?  Who will stop them?  I'm not trying to go out on Brisket's ledge, but the only thing I think that could stop them is torches and pitchforks and I don't think Americans will do that en masse.

This.  There will be no torches and pitchforks.  McConnell knows this. 

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

Well then.  Pour the scotch gents.

[Chad Fuck 18,035]

Glenmorangie La Santa for me, then.

Or any of the Glens.

 

 

[retread 2,951]

The only way I could see the R Senators (and maybe House too) turning on each other would be if the HPSCI starts turning over rocks and implicates R Congressmen in illegal activities. I guess the dominoes could start falling if there are enough honest Rs left in DC. If enough corrupt Rs were kicked out, the honest ones might summon the courage to tell all.  /pollyannatheresnoplacelikehometheresnoplacelikehome

[yaqdum 182]

17 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

The wild card is, if and when Mueller makes a decisive move, the conspiracy engulfs members (and ex-members) of Congress on the ruble money laundering side of the equation.  GOP Senate will not be able to get away with inaction if their own are pegged as complicit beneficiaries with Trump/Russia.

that is exactly right.  all the talk about what the senate will and will not do misses what will happen when most of the crooked senate is indicted.  who knows what happens then, but to consider the senate an intact vessel is wrong.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

3 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

that is exactly right.  all the talk about what the senate will and will not do misses what will happen when most of the crooked senate is indicted.  who knows what happens then, but to consider the senate an intact vessel is wrong.

The Republicans have already shown their colors.  They have no problem nominating and electing literal criminals that have already been indicted.  

The actions of the democrats is what we should worry about. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19,532]

The best hope for senate Rs is the ones that just got elected/reelected, or the ones that aren't up until 2022. All the 2020 class is going to need the Trumpkin vote, or think they do. (They probably do)

I also wonder how long McConnell can hold on as Majority leader if shit gets real ugly and there's a big enough group of Rs that want to act. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

35 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Why not?  Who will stop them?  I'm not trying to go out on Brisket's ledge, but the only thing I think that could stop them is torches and pitchforks and I don't think Americans will do that en masse.

My understanding is that for Senate, a member can be under indictment and still be seated and vote.  So it's certainly one possibility they take the Duncan Hunter/Chris Collins approach and try to go about business as usual.  But the next election is about 21.5 months away, with full campaign mode not even 15 months away.  The Senate map in '20 leaves GOP control highly vulnerable and exposed.  The scale and severity of the Mueller investigation is orders of magnitude greater than individual acts of Hunter and Collins by comparison.  With the Mueller report people will resign/impeachment happens, or electoral bloodbath.  It may yet take longer than it should, but there's no way out for GOP in its present state.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by triplehorn

[Brisketexan 106,296]

Just now, triplehorn said:

It may yet take longer than it should, but there's no way out for GOP in it's present state.

I actually agree with this.  I just think the devil is in the first clause.  It ain't whether the GOP eventually loses its grip on power.  It's a question of how much irreparable harm they do fighting tooth and nail every step of the way.

Berlin was going to fall, there was no way it wasn't.  But because of a "fight to the last man" approach by the regime, this is what it looked like when all was said and done:

We the people may indeed recapture our country at some point.  But it won't be 1930 Berlin we capture. It will be the rubble of 1945.  Happily caused, with no moral compunction whatsoever, by today's GOP.

[RomaVicta 30,379]

17 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This man is headed to prison 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

There is some subtle irony here given that the FBI completely dropped the ball on Trump before he was president 

[Francisco 2.0 32,475]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There is some subtle irony here given that the FBI completely dropped the ball on Trump before he was president 

 

[MAGA]Fuck the FBI.  They are corrupt as fuck and in bed with Hillary[/MAGA]

 

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There is some subtle irony here given that the FBI completely dropped the ball on Trump before he was president 

Lines are about to break.

[Junior Miller 1,502]

There should be a separate tax added this year to top 1% that funds in full the cost of back pay to all federal employees who missed pay during this shit. Let them eat the cost for this shit they allow their puppets to do.  

[DDD Dad 14,543]

Glenmorangie La Santa for me, then.
Or any of the Glens.
 
 

I’m more of a Quinta Ruban fan. Or Milsean.

[Anastasis 23,671]

I am surprised, but guess I shouldn't be, at how many government employees are literally one missed paycheck away from financial ruin.  

[David Dennison 19,316]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Lines are about to break.

There are bills that fully fund the government ready for a signature.

I wonder which line is going to break.

[David Dennison 19,316]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I am surprised, but guess I shouldn't be, at how many government employees are literally one missed paycheck away from financial ruin.  

That's most Americans.

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

[MAGA]Fuck the FBI.  They are corrupt as fuck and in bed with Hillary[/MAGA]

 

 

And this is why we are on the brink of chaos.  These people will never believe truth.  They need to be vanished, but we can't do that.  Fuck it, I'm ready for torches and pitchforks.  60% of the country needs to be ready for that too.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am surprised, but guess I shouldn't be, at how many government employees are literally one missed paycheck away from financial ruin.  

Heard on NPR this morning something like 70% of Americans have less than $400 in their account.

[Captainant 28,278]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am surprised, but guess I shouldn't be, at how many government employees are literally one missed paycheck away from financial ruin.  

A significant number of Americans are one paycheck away from ruin. Why should government employees be any different?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

That sounds like a national emergency 

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

1 minute ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Heard on NPR this morning something like 70% of Americans have less than $400 in their account.

While that is fucking astounding, it is the case and we can't just chastise them and say they should be better with their money.  This is a massive issue.

[hayden_horn 11,393]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am surprised, but guess I shouldn't be, at how many government employees are literally one missed paycheck away from financial ruin.  

There is this idea that federal employees live high on the hog.  They do not. TSA starts somewhere between $25k - $38k. These people are the front line in securing our airports. 

[David Dennison 19,316]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

While that is fucking astounding, it is the case and we can't just chastise them and say they should be better with their money.  This is a massive issue.

It's by design. 

[Foosters 18,144]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

A significant number of Americans are one paycheck away from ruin. Why should government employees be any different?

Becuase they are the Beltway Elite. Living in gated compounds having sex with children and eating pizza slices.

[Foosters 18,144]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

While that is fucking astounding, it is the case and we can't just chastise them and say they should be better with their money.  This is a massive issue.

Meanwhile, the Trump sycophants will log on here and, dead serious, tell you the erosion of the middle class is do to over taxation and regulation.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

"Tony Fabrizio" has been a "business associate" in many a Scorsese movie.

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

It is January 10th and we are in a shutdown that seems nowhere close to ending.  I don't know if we can wait til mid-Feb or whatever for Mueller.  Shit's getting real.

[triplehorn 2,664]

 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by triplehorn

[Chad Fuck 18,035]

31 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I’m more of a Quinta Ruban fan. Or Milsean.

[Born to Run 6,596]

How will things shake down after the report is complete? Serious question. Present to AG then it’s stuck in a endless quagmire of legal wrangling? House subpoenas,denied then on to Scotus?
I think Trump is eventually fucked. But it’s a long ways out.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

6 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

How will things shake down after the report is complete? Serious question. Present to AG then it’s stuck in a endless quagmire of legal wrangling? House subpoenas,denied then on to Scotus?
I think Trump is eventually fucked. But it’s a long ways out.

As soon as Mueller is off the clock he will be called before Congress to publicly testify and brief the American people on his findings. 

Trump and the GOP won’t be able to cover that up and it will likely have more influence on public opinion than any report.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Born to Run 6,596]

Can he present all of his findings or will national security issues/ pending legal litigation/ limit the scope.

[shnsajax 3,593]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

As soon as Mueller is off the clock he will be called before Congress to publicly testify and brief the American people on his findings. 

Trump and the GOP won’t be able to cover that up and it will likely have more influence on public opinion than any report.

 

28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

11 months ago they met, and we just found out a couple of days ago about Manafort dumping the polling data to the Russians. Its going to take 40 hours of public hearings just to hear everything Mueller knows. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by shnsajax

[triplehorn 2,664]

I said it a long time ago, and said it above on this page: indict complicit members of Congress and there's a good chance the whole slab breaks loose.  Throw in Trump brood, Stone et al, for measure.  It won't make a shit whether or not a sitting POTUS can be indicted by SCO.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

I said it a long time ago, and said it above on this page: indict complicit members of Congress and there's a good chance the whole slab breaks loose.  Throw in Trump brood, Stone et al, for measure.  It won't make a shit whether or not a sitting POTUS can be indicted by SCO.

 

[Jiggy-Z 3,506]

12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

While that is fucking astounding, it is the case and we can't just chastise them and say they should be better with their money.  This is a massive issue.

Indeed...and it affects not just those with minimal savings.  Things have gotten expensive for the middle class.

In my own case, my house and cars are paid for and I have already put one kid through college.  I own my own business (which is debt free as well) and get plenty of right offs and never pay anywhere close to retail for home improvement costs.  The wife and I have a few hundred thou in 401Ks and plenty of emergency savings (a couple years worth).  Wife is self employed and also makes another 30K/yr from property she inherited. We go on vacation during the summer up to Wisconsin and stay with my BILs family at their cabin, go to Port A a couple time s a year, and go to some other USA locations in connection with my youngest kids being competitive rock climbers-so no crazy expensive travel stuff.  We have two dogs and two cats, shop at the farmers market and Costco.  One kid goes to public school and the other a small private school due to some learning issues. i don't own a boat or any other expensive high maintenance toys. We have no medical issues and are in good shape. I am so cheap that I don't have garbage service at the house (I take it to my construction yard and use the dumpster and recycling bins), I don't buy firewood (I go to my parent's ranch and load up on mesquite a couple time each year), our home electric bills have never been more than $300, and I don't even donate to the church.

We are in our early 50s and I see no hope of retirement by 65 and/or not having the kids burdened with staggering student loan debt should they go to college (have a 529 plan but it is woefully underfunded).  In the last 5 years we have not been able to save much at all.  Health insurance, property taxes, and rising food costs real food) really take a bite. i can't even imagine how tight things would be if we had a house payment and/or car payments.

[Biff Tannen 45,953]

I wouldn't necessarily call you middle class Jiggy.  A few hundred thousand in 401k? 

Edit: this will probably spiral, so let's just move on and not derail the thread

Edited January 10, 2019 by Biff Tannen

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

13 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Can he present all of his findings or will national security issues/ pending legal litigation/ limit the scope.

The conclusions of the report will open to the public.  That was the whole point of his assignment.

Some information will be classified due to things like sources/methods, national security, and relation to other ongoing investigations.

However, I think the elephant in the room with the most incriminating evidence is the obstruction of justice. 

The coverup might be just as big as the crime.

[triplehorn 2,664]

Law Question here:  Article II Sec 2 of the US Constitution states:

Quote

 

"The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

 

Does that mean if, for instance, a federal judge is impeached and convicted, a POTUS cannot pardon ?  Or does it mean if a POTUS is impeached by the House, it nullifies his immediate pardon powers ?  Or something else ?

[BrickHorn 18,409]

 

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That sounds like a national emergency 

It would be, if the poors had bigger, stronger, faster, way awesomer vehicles than even ICE.  

[BrickHorn 18,409]

2 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Law Question here:  Article II Sec 2 of the US Constitution states:

Does that mean if, for instance, a federal judge is impeached and convicted, a POTUS cannot pardon ?  Or does it mean if a POTUS is impeached by the House, it nullifies his immediate pardon powers ?  Or something else ?

Not familiar with any case law on this, but as I read it, the President can’t pardon anyone (including himself) from an impeachment.  Which means he can’t use a pardon to keep someone from being booted out of office.

[Anastasis 23,671]

51 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

There is this idea that federal employees live high on the hog.  They do not. 

I know they are not.  I think the vast majority of federal employees have skill set probably on par with call center employees. Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't shock me, and as others have pointed out, this is in fact the broader norm.

The statement from the FBIAA is addressing a different segment of federal employee though.  FBI special agents are well paid, college educated, typically with professional experience in law, accounting, computer science or suitable advanced degrees.  I am surprised that substantial number of people meeting that profile are going to default on their debts and risk losing their security clearance as a result of poor financial planning. But as has been pointed out, I should not be.