The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is one of those theories I want to believe but the realism in me says nothing comes of this.  These guys aren’t idiots like Trump, they cover their ass.  

We all know they’re up to their eyeballs in corrupt money but the problem is it’s not a crime they are liable for.   They made it this way by design. 

I wouldn't be too sure.  I periodically am reminded of a key episode between Trump and McConnell in Aug 2017 when things were 2-3 months into Mueller ramping it up:

 

Quote

Washington (CNN) President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have not spoken in nearly two weeks, since a phone call between the two men went awry and left the two men screaming at each other.

Sources with knowledge of the August 9 call said the exchange quickly devolved into a shouting match as an irate Trump expressed his frustrations about the congressional investigation into Russian interference with the US election last year and fumed about a Russia sanctions bill Congress passed that would tie Trump's hands on the matter.

[...]

Both men shouted at each other during the call and Trump cursed at the GOP leader, sources with knowledge of the call told CNN. Soon after, Trump took to Twitter to publicly upbraid the Senate Republican leader, painting McConnell as ineffective.

One source said the primary cause of Trump's frustrations with McConnell has been the GOP leader's failure to protect Trump on the Russia issue, more than health care.

Trump, McConnell haven't spoken since angry phone call, sources say

Trump made his Large Marge face at Mitch over the Russia investigation and they shouted curses at each other.  Then no speaking for at least two weeks.  Then Mitch falls in line.  Why ???

Let's suppose Mitch thought that $100M+ in campaign cash from NRA and other largesse was clean and he could maintain some plausible deniability.  Now imagine Donald dropping some truth on him during that conversation in a mob style power play.  Now Mitch really knows.  Mitch is now faced with a choice.  And Mitch chose subservience - and became an abettor.

 

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

retread posted this on the shutdown thread and it warrants crossposting.  You can't fake the coordination when time stamps from the twitter account of a Russian oligarch precede Trump's official actions and policy moves step for step.  I am gobsmacked.

 

 

I cringe at the reference to Malcolm Nance and Jester Actual, but the tweet is from a person making basic observations:

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

20 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

 

retread posted this on the shutdown thread and it warrants crossposting.  You can't fake the coordination when time stamps from the twitter account of a Russian oligarch precede Trump's official actions and policy moves step for step.  I am gobsmacked.

 

That account throws a bunch of shit out and some of it sticks but the things he predicts correctly are events the casual observer could forecast.  

That account basically said it was time to retire RGB and install Amy B. the other day.

Amy B is the obvious front runner to replace RBG  should something happen to her. 

It’s a troll to fuck with us. Typical Russia shit.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[pyrohornIII 4,814]

I am  sorry, but why the fuck would anyone care what the russians think of the shelf life of our Supreme Court Justices?   

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That account throws a bunch of shit out and some of it sticks but the things he predicts correctly are events the casual observer could forecast.  

Ok, but these are not events a casual observer would forecast, and furthermore the message/response time is very brief, not out there for weeks or months: 

--> Klushin previously tweeted directions to Trump to remove Brennan’s security clearance and two days later, the White House released the memo removing Brennan’s clearance. (Aug, 2018)

--> Klyushin later suggests Ivanka should head the World Bank, but there is a threat to his second tweet: ‘I am sure your beauty Ivanka everything will work out. You know what to do.  Ivanka under consideration: Ivanka Trump 'being considered as new World Bank chief'

--> Klyushin clarifying his previous tweet to Trump about delaying calling an emergency on the wall. He had mentioned ‘protection from natural disasters’ Now he is clarifying by referencing the Disaster Relief Fund.  And Klyushin follows up with how a state of emergency would allow Trump to ignore congress.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Yeah, he also throws out a ton of shit that doesn’t come true or make sense. 

The one where he predicted the UN Ambassador a month in advance was the most noteworthy.

Moreover, even if this conspiracy theory were true, so what?  As if we didn’t know Trump was a Kremlin puppet. 

It’s a great troll either way.

[F250 28,775]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Those 47 million couldn’t keep a black Muslim, atheist, Marxist, Socialist, Communist Kenyan born in Chicago, Hawaii, Indonesia named Barrack Hussein Obama from winning the White House twice, including a win against a Vietnam war hero.  

Of course those are people have no problem with Vietnam POWs being mocked by a draft-dodger, so....

Many of those people were pissed with the McCain nomination which is why one of their own was put in the VP slot. I don't think the GOP expected her to "go rogue" which changed everything. That was the moment the inmates started running the asylum.

The GOP should have went with the McCain-Lieberman ticket. That might have caused the deplorables to leave the party for a season like they did when Buchanan left the GOP.

[triplehorn 2,664]

54 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, he also throws out a ton of shit that doesn’t come true or make sense. 

The one where he predicted the UN Ambassador a month in advance was the most noteworthy.

Moreover, even if this conspiracy theory were true, so what?  As if we didn’t know Trump was a Kremlin puppet. 

It’s a great troll either way.

You're giving equal weight to shit that doesn't come true.  That could just as well be intentional, i.e. background noise.  Statistically it's expected.  The statistical probability of correctly suggesting multiple specific and unique acts that Trump actually did within days being attributable to chance, on the other hand, is exceedingly low.  Like, not due to chance.  I'm not going to go to the mat on this, but it kind of makes the hair on my neck stand.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

You're giving equal weight to shit that doesn't come true.  That could just as well be intentional, i.e. background noise.  Statistically it's expected.  The statistical probability of correctly suggesting multiple specific and unique acts that Trump actually did within days being attributable to chance, on the other hand, is exceedingly low.  Like, not due to chance.  I'm not going to go to the mat on this, but it kind of makes the hair on my neck stand.

Assuming there’s something to this, there are other explanations other than, “This Russian oligarch is tweeting out orders to Trump that he’s following.”

It could be the Kremlin has inside info and this guy is just flushing it back out to make himself look like Nostradamus.  I mean, the Russians are known for their intelligence operations.  

Regardless, the douchebag is fucking with us, i.e. trolling.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Legendary journalist Carl Bernstein has said that he’s been told that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show how President Donald Trump helped Russia “destabilize the United States.”

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-report-trump-helped-putin-destabilize-us-watergate-journalist-1289541

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/head-russian-spy-agency-accused-u-s-election-hack-u-n939261

 

Dead Russian

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/head-russian-spy-agency-accused-u-s-election-hack-u-n939261

 

Dead Russian

This happened a while back (like a few months ago) but still noteworthy.  Reports are Putin was absolutely furious with how sloppy the GRU cyber operations have been. 

[4th&Five 41,552]

I’m sure it’ll be a nothingburger. 

[SubliminalHorn 6,787]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Legendary journalist Carl Bernstein has said that he’s been told that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show how President Donald Trump helped Russia “destabilize the United States.”

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-report-trump-helped-putin-destabilize-us-watergate-journalist-1289541

No wai!

[Chooky 13,307]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Legendary journalist Carl Bernstein has said that he’s been told that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show how President Donald Trump helped Russia “destabilize the United States.”

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-report-trump-helped-putin-destabilize-us-watergate-journalist-1289541

The Senate will be concerned as fuck and make concerned as fuck statements and concerned as fuck faces and then say fuck it and just run with that 36%.

[Nivek 16,930]

Conservative Texans are not having many kids or at least not at the same rate as non-conservatives.   They’ve had a good run, but the days are limited for the Texas gop.  They’ve not done tomorrow but within a decade.

Don’t worry, they will manufacture more by removing more fund from education.

[triplehorn 2,664]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Assuming there’s something to this, there are other explanations other than, “This Russian oligarch is tweeting out orders to Trump that he’s following.”

It could be the Kremlin has inside info and this guy is just flushing it back out to make himself look like Nostradamus.  I mean, the Russians are known for their intelligence operations.  

Regardless, the douchebag is fucking with us, i.e. trolling.

 

Trump's communications being intercepted, intentionally or not, is a likelihood given the multiple reports over time of him insisting on using an unsecured phone.  An oligarch who repeatedly tweets about what he has heard from Trump before it happens might as well be giving Donald a hot plate on the Oval desktop.  This is probably a worse scenario than being told what to do via social media from a national security standpoint, though both are probably ongoing.

Why would Donald insist on using an unsecured phone?  To be intentionally intercepted ?  To continue to do what he is known for doing and what Michael Cohen did all the time - record conversations for a variety of purposes including future blackmail ?  Any guesses as to whether box turtle Mitch ever took calls from Donald on his unsecured phone ?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

3 hours ago, F250 said:

Many of those people were pissed with the McCain nomination which is why one of their own was put in the VP slot. I don't think the GOP expected her to "go rogue" which changed everything. That was the moment the inmates started running the asylum.

The GOP should have went with the McCain-Lieberman ticket. That might have caused the deplorables to leave the party for a season like they did when Buchanan left the GOP.

LOL @ plugging a rube into the VP slot.  I thought that was idiotic back then...only to see the R's ride a rube as an actual presidential candidate all the way to the WH.  Being someone who tended to vote more R, I was amazed that some segment of the party would support Palin...boy, was I wrong.  That's the core constituency. 

[TornACL 7,698]

Palin was the moment I said, yep, that's just about enough of the Republican Party for me. 

[Goredho 17,406]

Not that my opinion matters, but I believe this will be to the GOP as Sandusky was to Penn State.  Where the reality beneath the bits and pieces we see is worse than we can speculate.  Where the truth is so heinous, that the leaders of the GOP would be willing sustain catastrophic political damage to the party to protect Trump. Why is that?   If this was just about Trump and his kids, they would have already been sacrificed to cut the party’s  losses.  But here they are, defending, deflecting and supporting the guy that is going to get them locked out of controlling Congress and the whitehouse for a generation.

How does that make sense?  It doesn’t unless the Republican party dies if everything becomes known.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

8 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Not that my opinion matters, but I believe this will be to the GOP as Sandusky was to Penn State.  Where the reality beneath the bits and pieces we see is worse than we can speculate.  Where the truth is so heinous, that the leaders of the GOP would be willing sustain catastrophic political damage to the party to protect Trump. 

Mitch sex tape

 

 

[Goredho 17,406]

Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Mitch sex tape

 

 

You and me baby ain't nothin' but reptiles...

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Interesting Q&A with an expert on how organized crime and the Russian / USSR governments have overlapped since Stalin's day and how that overlap has only grown since the collapse of the USSR. 

Excerpts

You describe Russia as a kleptocracy, where there's no distinction between crime, politics, and law enforcement. What does this mean for America and the world going forward?

It's a problem because Russia is a serious player in world politics and global economics. The trouble is that Russian kleptocracy and the close ties between the Kremlin, business, and organized crime means that Russia can infect other countries with it's own practices. Putin is engaged in this kind of political war with the West—he’s effectively trying to weaponize Russian organized crime against the west.

We have seen Russian-based organized crime groups being used to kill enemies of his, to gather intelligence, to move spies across borders, and raise money for Putin by supporting particular groups or media outlets that he likes and are good at spreading disinformation.

These are all serious problems, but there’s a bit of hope. I think there’s this slow build up of pressures for some kind of change inside Russia. I think you're getting a population that is tired of corruption and an elite that has outgrown the gangsters and finds them a bit of an embarrassment. I don't think were going to see it while Putin is still in the Kremlin, but after Putin goes, which might be two years or six years, or longer, it's going to happen. There’s a decent chance that we're going to start seeing a kind of a slow fight back against organized crime in Russia. But for now, this is clearly a problem for us all.

What do you think the Mueller investigations into President Trump's alleged ties to Russia will uncover in regards to the Vory, if anything? Trump has a history of Italian mob ties in the US and some of his lackeys like consigliere Michael Cohen have even claimed to be tight with Russian mobsters. 

From Donald Trump down, through Michael Cohen, for me what I see unfolding in the States is not so much a story about everyday Russian organized crime so much as a story of unusual American greed, of a lack of morals and a depressing belief that any business is good business, regardless with whom it is conducted. I have seen no serious evidence of any explicit link between Trump and Russian mobsters. Rather, what I have seen is evidence of the extent to which the Trump Organization seems to have been willing to engage with dubious investors and buyers—some Russian, many not—whom more reputable corporations would not have touched. In the process, it is likely it laundered money from all kinds of questionable sources, but that is not the same as a direct link to gangsters. Above all, this is a story about corruption, framed in both legal and moral terms, and about a horrifying absence of ethics and transparency.

 

 

 

 

 

[SquishMitten 10,408]

Is the whole “nothing will happen to trump” thing a defensive mechanism? Obviously Brisket has completely lost his mind, but reasonable posters  are seemingly aware of what’s unfolding and still  convinced trump isn’t completely fucked here.
I don’t get it.

There may be a few who feel that way, but I think the majority of us are concerned that none of this matters because his base, and Rs in general, have given no indication that anything will make them abandon him. Having the Senate and 35-40% of the population pledging undying loyalty is a substantial safety blanket.

Personally, I believe he’s completely fucked. I also believe that 35-40% of the population will believe it’s all fake news.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

17 hours ago, triplehorn said:

I wouldn't be too sure.  I periodically am reminded of a key episode between Trump and McConnell in Aug 2017 when things were 2-3 months into Mueller ramping it up:

 

Trump, McConnell haven't spoken since angry phone call, sources say

Trump made his Large Marge face at Mitch over the Russia investigation and they shouted curses at each other.  Then no speaking for at least two weeks.  Then Mitch falls in line.  Why ???

Let's suppose Mitch thought that $100M+ in campaign cash from NRA and other largesse was clean and he could maintain some plausible deniability.  Now imagine Donald dropping some truth on him during that conversation in a mob style power play.  Now Mitch really knows.  Mitch is now faced with a choice.  And Mitch chose subservience - and became an abettor.

 

 

This wouldn't shock me.  However one explanation could be the 'sources with knowledge' were making shit up.

[wildcat09 29,354]

13 hours ago, Goredho said:

Not that my opinion matters, but I believe this will be to the GOP as Sandusky was to Penn State.  Where the reality beneath the bits and pieces we see is worse than we can speculate.  Where the truth is so heinous, that the leaders of the GOP would be willing sustain catastrophic political damage to the party to protect Trump. Why is that?   If this was just about Trump and his kids, they would have already been sacrificed to cut the party’s  losses.  But here they are, defending, deflecting and supporting the guy that is going to get them locked out of controlling Congress and the whitehouse for a generation.

How does that make sense?  It doesn’t unless the Republican party dies if everything becomes known.

Penn State was back in to the top ten within five years of the Sandusky trial. 

[Goredho 17,406]

24 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Penn State was back in to the top ten within five years of the Sandusky trial. 

Morgan Freeman gif.

[M12BH 545]

7 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

 

There may be a few who feel that way, but I think the majority of us are concerned that none of this matters because his base, and Rs in general, have given no indication that anything will make them abandon him. Having the Senate and 35-40% of the population pledging undying loyalty is a substantial safety blanket.

Personally, I believe he’s completely fucked. I also believe that 35-40% of the population will believe it’s all fake news.

 

35-40% floor no matter what.  Dangle something tasty in front of another 10-15% of the population and they're right back in play.  You don't think that can or will happen?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Most people who are innocent of any crimes will still need to hire thirty-five lawyers at some point, a new study shows.

According to the study, commissioned by the University of Minnesota Law School, thirty-five is the “bare minimum” number of lawyers that an innocent person should have on retainer in the event that he or she becomes the subject of an entirely unjustified criminal investigation.

“We found that many innocent people are going through life without taking the basic precaution of hiring thirty-five lawyers,” Professor Davis Logsdon, who supervised the study, said. “They are flirting with disaster.”

An innocent person who has absolutely nothing to hide should do everything in his or her power to avoid answering questions from investigators,” he said. “Thirty-five lawyers can really help you do that.”

Additionally, Logsdon noted, hiring nearly three dozen lawyers is invaluable because of the powerful statement it makes. “Nothing says ‘I’m innocent’ like hiring thirty-five lawyers,” he said.

Although some innocent people may balk at the unwieldy number of lawyers that the study recommends, Logsdon emphasized that thirty-five lawyers provide necessary protection against unforeseen legal complications. “If, for example, one of your lawyers goes to prison, you will still have thirty-four,” he said.

Logsdon acknowledged that, although every innocent person should definitely hire thirty-five lawyers, such legal help does not come cheap. “Legal bills for thirty-five lawyers can be very expensive, unless you’re a person who doesn’t pay his bills,” he said.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/study-most-innocent-people-need-to-hire-thirty-five-lawyers-at-some-point

[David Dennison 18,860]

26 minutes ago, M12BH said:

35-40% floor no matter what.  Dangle something tasty in front of another 10-15% of the population and they're right back in play.  You don't think that can or will happen?

I think that 10-15% is gone.

Trumpism is over.

[Fozzz 152]

uh oh

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Glenn Greenwald pushing out the Authoritarianish State disinformation campaign and talking points on twitter is shocking.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Glenn Greenwald pushing out the Authoritarianish State disinformation campaign and talking points on twitter is shocking.

Jon Karl != state.  Legitimate reporter reporting legitimate analysis.  This is the sort of thing that should be posted here to avoid bubbledom.

[Jograves 357]

4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Jon Karl != state.  Legitimate reporter reporting legitimate analysis.  This is the sort of thing that should be posted here to avoid bubbledom.

I'm fine with that, but it doesn't really square with the fact they handed over internal polling data. 

[wildcat09 29,354]

A White House correspondent also probably isn't exactly dialed in with Mueller's team.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A White House correspondent also probably isn't exactly dialed in with Mueller's team.

beyond that, anyone trying to claim authority on Mueller's report before it's been published is just looking for attention. we can probably count on 2 hands the number of people that know what's fully in the report - perhaps one

[Chad Fuck 17,681]

9 minutes ago, Jograves said:

I'm fine with that, but it doesn't really square with the fact they handed over internal polling data. 

Yeah he didn't address the "met with Jr. in Trump Tower to get Hillary dirt" question either.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

I'm fine with that proposition being posted, but if it turns out to be correct, then there is no reason or logic in this world anymore and the Purge is a real possibility.

[Fozzz 152]

I'm going to laugh so hard if the report turns out to be a nothingburger.  Better lock this thread if that happens because i'm gonna be runnin all y'all down otherwise. 

[Jograves 357]

16 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A White House correspondent also probably isn't exactly dialed in with Mueller's team.

Excellent point. He's getting his info from Sanders and Shine and other trump toadies. 

Carl Bernstein said the Mueller report will show trump worked with Putin to 'destabilize' the US. He's said his sources are lawyers for various defendants and others who have been questioned. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'm going to laugh so hard if the report turns out to be a nothingburger.  Better lock this thread if that happens because i'm gonna be runnin all y'all down otherwise. 

will you promise to never post here again if it's not?

[shnsajax 3,591]

5 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'm going to laugh so hard if the report turns out to be a nothingburger.  Better lock this thread if that happens because i'm gonna be runnin all y'all down otherwise. 

Do you honestly think anyone gives a shit what you say or think?

[wildcat09 29,354]

 

[jimmyjazz 45,953]

If the report is less than a bombshell it will likely be so because the constant spew of horrifying details about this administration have inoculated the public against further shock.  That doesn't mean it won't contain vast amounts of information that (in normal times) would justify impeachment or even indictment.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

16 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'm going to laugh so hard if the report turns out to be a nothingburger.  Better lock this thread if that happens because i'm gonna be runnin all y'all down otherwise. 

How hard exactly are you gonna laugh? Like full on belly laugh? Rolling around on the grounds laughing like a maniac in an insane asylum? Tell us more. 

[Fozzz 152]

Fairly hard.  Audibly for sure.  It's just a matter of time.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

How hard exactly are you gonna laugh? Like full on belly laugh? Rolling around on the grounds laughing like a maniac in an insane asylum? Tell us more. 

I'd rather he try to count the bumps on his scrote and report the findings back to us

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

Here's a good preview of how this nothingburger might taste (click the tweet for the thread, not the article):