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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

Posted
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You guys are getting trolled hard by fozz.  JFC

He's actually me favorite type of troll...the 30,000 feet above it all troll.  It's all terrible and I'm just up here taking it all in and bashing all sides.  You bros should join me up here...but you're not cool enough.  Sorry. 

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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deech

deech 2291

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No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

 

I feel like this bears repeating.  I have not even heard anyone on the right in the media attempt to spin it.  The only quasi-defense/argument I've heard is an attempt to say it was just Manafort acting alone.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23482

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3 minutes ago, deech said:

No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

No one can come up with a non-collusive reason why Trump's campaign manager (Manafort) provided internal polling data to Russian foreign agents. 

 

I feel like this bears repeating.  I have not even heard anyone on the right in the media attempt to spin it.  The only quasi-defense/argument I've heard is an attempt to say it was just Manafort acting alone.

As self appointed sanctimonious contrarian, let me take a crack.

Manafort was trying to prove up how deeply integrated he was with the campaign by passing a mix of public and contracted poll data.  This is occurring at the same that he was putting out offers to give private briefings on the race to Deripaska. He had history with these guys and owed Deripaska something like 10+ million dollars in bad debt and was trying to keep them at bay. Up to this point, this is basically a paraphrase of one explanation offered in the NYT piece BTW. In addition, I would add that the intent could be to flaunt his position on the Trump campaign, teasing his influence in a potential Trump presidency, with the qui pro quo ultimately being a release from his past political and financial debts in exchange for effective insider lobbying regarding sanction relief impacting the very oligarchs he was communicating with.  That seems to be something that these guys might find 10MM in value over. 

It's a stretch, but there you go. Man in bad place, big debt, wrong people, trying to dig himself out via influence peddling. That's the most friendly read.  The other is that he was knowingly feeding their influence machine targeting data. In which case he should hang. 

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deech

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

As self appointed sanctimonious contrarian, let me take a crack.

Manafort was trying to prove up how deeply integrated he was with the campaign by passing a mix of public and contracted poll data.  This is occurring at the same that he was putting out offers to give private briefings on the race to Deripaska. He had history with these guys and owed Deripaska something like 10+ million dollars in bad debt and was trying to keep them at bay. Up to this point, this is basically a paraphrase of one explanation offered in the NYT piece BTW. In addition, I would add that the intent could be to flaunt his position on the Trump campaign, teasing his influence in a potential Trump presidency, with the qui pro quo ultimately being a release from his past political and financial debts in exchange for effective insider lobbying regarding sanction relief impacting the very oligarchs he was communicating with.  That seems to be something that these guys might find 10MM in value over. 

It's a stretch, but there you go. Man in bad place, big debt, wrong people, trying to dig himself out via influence peddling. That's the most friendly read.  The other is that he was knowingly feeding their influence machine targeting data. In which case he should hang. 

It makes 0.0 sense that the campaign manager has to share internal poll data to earn the trust of someone he's worked for before to prove that he could pull some internal strings at a later date to pay off debt.  He was the campaign chairman.  

I appreciate the attempt.  It's just more than a stretch.  It is a logical crock of shit and he should hang.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Posted
58 minutes ago, deech said:

It makes 0.0 sense that the campaign manager has to share internal poll data to earn the trust of someone he's worked for before to prove that he could pull some internal strings at a later date to pay off debt.  He was the campaign chairman.  

I appreciate the attempt.  It's just more than a stretch.  It is a logical crock of shit and he should hang.

You correctly point out the key nature of the relationship - it was already a well oiled machine.  Manafort was giving the polling data to Russians with whom he had an established and successful process for identifying angles of attack (using polling data in part) then cyber-targeting them on the population during Russia's effort to install a Putin friendly leader in Kiev.

 

Recall (Bloomberg):  Manafort Ally to Cooperate With U.S. After Guilty Plea

---> Kilimnik started a lobbying business with Sam Patten in 2015.  They worked with Paul Manafort in Ukraine and with Cambridge Analytica for microtargeting campaigns.
Sam Patten pleaded guilty in 2018 for illegally funneling money into the Trump inauguration fund.

Like a hand to a glove, Paul was just feeding his personal input and US election related data to his established Russian partners to fire up the digital weaponry that had already proved itself in Ukraine.  

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105313

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

As self appointed sanctimonious contrarian, let me take a crack.

Manafort was trying to prove up how deeply integrated he was with the campaign by passing a mix of public and contracted poll data.  This is occurring at the same that he was putting out offers to give private briefings on the race to Deripaska. He had history with these guys and owed Deripaska something like 10+ million dollars in bad debt and was trying to keep them at bay. Up to this point, this is basically a paraphrase of one explanation offered in the NYT piece BTW. In addition, I would add that the intent could be to flaunt his position on the Trump campaign, teasing his influence in a potential Trump presidency, with the qui pro quo ultimately being a release from his past political and financial debts in exchange for effective insider lobbying regarding sanction relief impacting the very oligarchs he was communicating with.  That seems to be something that these guys might find 10MM in value over. 

It's a stretch, but there you go. Man in bad place, big debt, wrong people, trying to dig himself out via influence peddling. That's the most friendly read.  The other is that he was knowingly feeding their influence machine targeting data. In which case he should hang. 

I actually don't think this is as outlandish as Anastasis would posit.  It's still a stretch...but the possibility of Manafort using his connection to Trump to try to save/pad his own ass, without any direction or coordination from anyone else at the campaign, is real and not crazy to believe.  Trump has surrounded himself with the shadiest of crooks and grifters.  To think that they wouldn't use the resources available to crook and grift for themselves is not outlandish at all.

Now, personally, I think that because they are all such kindred crook and grifter spirits, they all generally knew of what the other was doing (because hey, your opportunity is also MY opportunity -- I LOVE rich oligarchs, let's get in good with them!).  We shall see.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I actually don't think this is as outlandish as Anastasis would posit.  It's still a stretch...but the possibility of Manafort using his connection to Trump to try to save/pad his own ass, without any direction or coordination from anyone else at the campaign, is real and not crazy to believe.  Trump has surrounded himself with the shadiest of crooks and grifters.  To think that they wouldn't use the resources available to crook and grift for themselves is not outlandish at all.

Now, personally, I think that because they are all such kindred crook and grifter spirits, they all generally knew of what the other was doing (because hey, your opportunity is also MY opportunity -- I LOVE rich oligarchs, let's get in good with them!).  We shall see.

Do people think Trump was directing the conspiracy?   

Because that doesn't fit with the facts.   Russia was going to run this operation on the 2016 election in favor of the GOP candidate no matter who it was.  They got lucky with Trump because he was a fully willing participant.  The Russians penetrated the Trump campaign at so many levels and Trump had no problem with it, neither did the GOP leadership. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105313

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Do people think Trump was directing the conspiracy?   

Because that doesn't fit with the facts.   Russia was going to run this operation on the 2016 election in favor of the GOP candidate no matter who it was.  They got lucky with Trump because he was a fully willing participant.  The Russians penetrated the Trump campaign at so many levels and Trump had no problem with it, neither did the GOP leadership. 

Oh, I don't think this was a Trump evil plan all along, led from the top.  He got played -- he's an opportunist by nature.  He saw opportunities (conveniently laid out for him), and took them.  He's a traitor by gullible laziness facilitated by complete narcissism and immorality.  There's a chess game going on, but he ain't playing it.  He's one of the pieces, and he's dumb enough to think he's in control.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23482

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13 hours ago, deech said:

It makes 0.0 sense that the campaign manager has to share internal poll data to earn the trust of someone he's worked for before to prove that he could pull some internal strings at a later date to pay off debt.  He was the campaign chairman.  

I appreciate the attempt.  It's just more than a stretch.  It is a logical crock of shit and he should hang.

It's a little more complicated. He owed money to Deripaska. The Ukranians (they all look alike) that he was passing the data to appear to have actually owed Manafort money. He could have been angling (angleing?) to bolster his attempts to recoup the money that he was owed by the Ukranians, and simultaneously offering insider briefings to Deripaska in attempt to hold him at bay for collections. Manafort was in 50+MM debt to a variety of slavs and people you don't generally want to be in debt with, and was trying to juggle a bunch of shady shit simultaneously.

For the sake of debate, take the least condemning rationale for a second. Manafort was in a bad spot with the wrong people and was harnessing his inner grifter spirit in attempt to claw himself out of that position by influence peddling on multiple fronts.  Even if that is the case, he would have known that by using Kilimnik (another Ukranian with Russian citizenship and a known interface to Russian Intelligence) as an intermediary that whatever information he passed through Kilimnik was going to end up with Russian intelligence.  In even the most forgiving interpretation, desperate operator trying to navigate a complex web of obligations and relationships, he passed campaign material through a source he knew would compromise that material. He should probably hang for that no matter what can be demonstrated with regard to his intent or knowledge or influencing circumstances.      

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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If Mueller has Trump dead to rights on anything that makes him a serious national security risk, I think he should unsealed indict Trump and let the courts determine if you can’t indict a sitting president.

By publicly exposing Trump’s malfeasance in a criminal charge, it could help neutralizes the threat quicker. 

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staboner

staboner 4984

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Posted
10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I don't think this was a Trump evil plan all along, led from the top.  He got played -- he's an opportunist by nature.  He saw opportunities (conveniently laid out for him), and took them.  He's a traitor by gullible laziness facilitated by complete narcissism and immorality.  There's a chess game going on, but he ain't playing it.  He's one of the pieces, and he's dumb enough to think he's in control.

all of this and what Anastasis suggested as a reasoning for why Manafuck did what he did makes sense no doubt.

a bunch of soul-less, blood suckers ripping off Americans for themselves, as in just their own person. they are too short sighted to even be considered as an organized effort on any level. fucking leeches. all of them, led by the largest fucking piece of leech shit you can imagine. 

happy tuesday my friends. its was a good day. 

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UncleCharlie

UncleCharlie 334

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If Mueller has Trump dead to rights on anything that makes him a serious national security risk, I think he should unsealed indict Trump and let the courts determine if you can’t indict a sitting president.

By publicly exposing Trump’s malfeasance in a criminal charge, it could help neutralizes the threat quicker. 

You're playing with fire there.  There are 100's of thousands of militarized rednecks ready to save DJT in what would be deemed a deep state coup attempt.

Best bet is to politically neuter and arrest all of the enablers.  Make him resign in shame publicly or run the next election with the Russian garbage stench all over him.

Edited by UncleCharlie
or not and
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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2 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

You're playing with fire there.  There are 100's of thousands of militarized rednecks ready to save DJT in what would be deemed a deep state coup attempt.

Best bet is to politically neuter and arrest all of the enablers.  Make him resign in shame publicly or run the next election with the Russian garbage stench all over him.

More like hundreds.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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6 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

You're playing with fire there.  There are 100's of thousands of militarized rednecks ready to save DJT in what would be deemed a deep state coup attempt.

Yeah, good.

We can only hope the morons come out and show themselves.  

No one is above the law, I don’t care what dumbass redneck army someone has supporting them. 

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Seriously, let them come out.  It will be far less than anyone thinks and they are no match against the military.  Wanna play army?  Pretty sure we can show them how real army plays.

You know who likes Trump? A lot of military members from the South and Rust Belt. 

 

But the general point is sound. There wouldn't be enough to overthrow the government, but enough to disrupt life as we know it. Think the pipe bomber x5 (10, 20?). 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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2 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

But the general point is sound. There wouldn't be enough to overthrow the government, but enough to disrupt life as we know it. Think the pipe bomber x5 (10, 20?). 

And the rule of law is worth the blood.  

No way should we ever consider compromising the foundation of our society because some snowflakes might decide to become terrorists.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29378

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Seriously, let them come out.  It will be far less than anyone thinks and they are no match against the military.  Wanna play army?  Pretty sure we can show them how real army plays.

The military isn't going to be the ones to put them down, law enforcement will be. And there's the problem: lots of Trump's most die hard stupid and violent supporters are cops.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89788

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

ut the general point is sound. There wouldn't be enough to overthrow the government, but enough to disrupt life as we know it. Think the pipe bomber x5 (10, 20?).

And there would be enough to cause gun control laws to move through various legislative bodies extremely fast.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89788

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2 hours ago, UncleCharlie said:

You're playing with fire there.  There are 100's of thousands of militarized rednecks ready to save DJT in what would be deemed a deep state coup attempt.

Where were these hundreds of thousands of militarized rednecks when a Black Muslim, atheist, Marxist, Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Kenyan from Indonesia who was born in Chicago named B. Hussein Obama staged a coup and took over the White House for 8 years?

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

Posted
Posted
Just now, atomheartbevo said:

Where were these hundreds of thousands of militarized rednecks when a Black Muslim, atheist, Marxist, Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Kenyan from Indonesia who was born in Chicago named B. Hussein Obama staged a coup and took over the White House for 8 years?

Around, but leaderless. They feel they have true purpose now. 

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