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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, zork said:

Is this the trial that is getting the immunity requests?

Yes.  I don't think, but I could be wrong, that the identities of those people is going to be earth-shattering.  I suspect that they will be bank employees and lower level assistant types that had some knowledge of Manafort's shenanigans.

 

The issues here are how much money he was making and how much he represented to banks and the IRS he was making.  Kinda dull stuff really.  Of course, sources of that income may come into play and some of that could be revelatory.

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shnsajax

shnsajax 3605

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes.  I don't think, but I could be wrong, that the identities of those people is going to be earth-shattering.  I suspect that they will be bank employees and lower level assistant types that had some knowledge of Manafort's shenanigans.

But if Gates is one of them he could drop something pretty big.

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Gap03

Gap03 3374

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The Clinton foundation running a child-sex trafficking ring or the Russians using the NRA to funnel money to the GOP while the GOP leadership openly sucks Putin’s cock.

Which is more absurd?

I was referring to the layered absurdity of both (1) the child-sex slavery ring being real AND (2) the IC investigations being orchestrated by Trump and his non-Deep State cabal as a trap for the Clintons and the Deep State.  I have a sneaking suspicion that you'd be able to find a thread or two on TexAgs supporting that theory.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90544

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

I was referring to the layered absurdity of both (1) the child-sex slavery ring being real AND (2) the IC investigations being orchestrated by Trump and his non-Deep State cabal as a trap for the Clintons and the Deep State.  I have a sneaking suspicion that you'd be able to find a thread or two on TexAgs supporting that theory.

There are at least two subreddits devoted to this.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

But if Gates is one of them he could drop something pretty big.

Because Gates is already indicted and supposedly cooperating (in the money laundering case), I initially didn't think he would be given immunity (immunity grants freedom from prosecution for an entire criminal transaction and I don't think they're ready to just let him go).  But maybe so.  Also, Gates spilling his guts about Trump in this particular trial would be irrelevant, would accordingly draw strenuous objections from Paulie's counsel, and I think any such objection would be sustained.  It would probably be in violation of the motions in limine mentioned/posted above.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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This is also the case that Judge Ellis requested demanded the unredacted Aug '17 DOJ Mueller mandate be supplied to rule in whether this case should be tossed on account of the claim it exceeds his mandate - that they were charging him for crimes unrelated to Trump/Russia and "were just trying to get Manafort to flip."  Ellis of course didn't toss the case after receiving the un-redacted copy.  However, I suppose what he saw and what we see beginning next week may or may not support our understanding of his ruling.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8867

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46 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

This is also the case that Judge Ellis requested demanded the unredacted Aug '17 DOJ Mueller mandate be supplied to rule in whether this case should be tossed on account of the claim it exceeds his mandate - that they were charging him for crimes unrelated to Trump/Russia and "were just trying to get Manafort to flip."  Ellis of course didn't toss the case after receiving the un-redacted copy.  However, I suppose what he saw and what we see beginning next week may or may not support our understanding of his ruling.

Everybody puts too much emphasis on Ellis’s in court behavior. He’s a tough judge and he presses every one on their weaknesses. That’s the extent of it. There is no equivocation in his Orders in this case

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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2 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Don't some of the Q Anon nutjobs actually believe this?  Seems like The Onion needs to up the absurdity factor in its stories in light of current events.

I think the Onion is directly mocking the Qanon tards.  Basically say, “Hey idiots, this is so fake it’s funny.”

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8867

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes.  I don't think, but I could be wrong, that the identities of those people is going to be earth-shattering.  I suspect that they will be bank employees and lower level assistant types that had some knowledge of Manafort's shenanigans.

 

The issues here are how much money he was making and how much he represented to banks and the IRS he was making.  Kinda dull stuff really.  Of course, sources of that income may come into play and some of that could be revelatory.

Dull, except he was working for Trump campaign for free and offering inside information directly to a person who holds huge amts of Manafort’s debts and Manafort asked questions that indicated the access/information was to be exchanged for his debt. Ho hum, nothing of interest here

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

This is also the case that Judge Ellis requested demanded the unredacted Aug '17 DOJ Mueller mandate be supplied to rule in whether this case should be tossed on account of the claim it exceeds his mandate - that they were charging him for crimes unrelated to Trump/Russia and "were just trying to get Manafort to flip."  Ellis of course didn't toss the case after receiving the un-redacted copy.  However, I suppose what he saw and what we see beginning next week may or may not support our understanding of his ruling.

I think he was somewhat suspicious of it all, as special/independent counsel laws are not without controversy.  In the final analysis, though, he doesn't really have any grounds to dismiss a factually valid prosecution even if he violently disagrees with the motives of the prosecutors or the statute/rules/procedures that make it possible.  He's smart enough to know that any such action would likely be reversed with haste by the 4th Circuit.

 

Kudos to him for being skeptical of federal prosecutors, though.  We need more judges like that.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
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56 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Dull, except he was working for Trump campaign for free and offering inside information directly to a person who holds huge amts of Manafort’s debts and Manafort asked questions that indicated the access/information was to be exchanged for his debt. Ho hum, nothing of interest here

And those facts are relevant to bank fraud and income tax evasion exactly how?  Is failing to report loan forgiveness income a major feature of this case?  Perhaps it is.  As mentioned, the majority of the Rooskie documents on the Government's Exhibit List are from 2010ish.

 

The money laundering case in DC is your huckleberry, most likely, if you want scandal and corruption other than Paulie Nonuts personally.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106615

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I can't decide if she looks more like Chloe Webb

 

18083.jpg

 

Or Tracey Ullman

TraceyUllman-copy-640x360.jpg

Man....back in the day, I thought Tracy was kinda cute, in an 80s-riffic sorta way.  Not a babe, but cute, had the cool accent, kinda funny.  Yeah, I liked her.

A-178005-1226597721.jpeg.jpg

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26773

Posted
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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Man....back in the day, I thought Tracy was kinda cute, in an 80s-riffic sorta way.  Not a babe, but cute, had the cool accent, kinda funny.  Yeah, I liked her.

A-178005-1226597721.jpeg.jpg

I actually posted the wrong picture, here's Tracey Ullman from the They Don't Know video, looking very much like Maria Butina

20e1eaf1bd82cb3c9636fd44e6146744.jpgmaxresdefault.jpg

 

It's actually a pretty good cover of the song, too.

 

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SKJ

SKJ 1317

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What is bullshit?  Putin’s power rests on his loyalty to his intelligence officers.  He’s going to make an offer for Butina.  I don’t know exactly what we’re looking for in return for Butina but I’m confident it’s something.

The longer it takes Putin to come to the table, the more pressure will be applied to Butina. We could see some more Russian spies taken into custody too.

I really don’t see Butina spending 20 years in a U.S. prison.  She will most likely end up back in Russia.

I think it's bullshit that:

1) Putin is foolish enough to trade anything for a pawn, and

2) Putin would ever acquiesce in any way to Trump.

I'm willing to bet she's not gonna roll over, especially considering she'd just go to a federal prison for women, which is a nice place to relax... It's not really much pressure to apply

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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9 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I think it's bullshit that:

1) Putin is foolish enough to trade anything for a pawn, and

2) Putin would ever acquiesce in any way to Trump.

I'm willing to bet she's not gonna roll over, especially considering she'd just go to a federal prison for women, which is a nice place to relax... It's not really much pressure to apply

1.  The Russians are going to use her as a propaganda tool. They already are on their official twitter account.  Putin will declare it as a victory when she is returned to Russia.  It’s like what Trump did with the Nork hostages.

2. I’m not sure how much Trump can do in her case other than pardon her (which he might).  The Justice Dept, IC, and State Dept would be handling any negotiations for her return.

3.  She’s not going to roll over on other Russians but she may be happy to roll on Americans that have committed crimes.  And why not? Fucking Americans is her specialty.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106615

Posted
Posted
Government’s exhibit list in the Manafort case
https://www.scribd.com/document/384216900/Mueller-list-of-indictments-against-Manafort
436 items.
 
Is that a lot?  Seems like a lot.

Not a lot. 

It’s not a lot.

I’ve gone to trial in federal court on a case with over 3,000 exhibits. Granted, it was a big case against a big bad guy, but still. I’ve had several cases with 400+ exhibits listed.
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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21 hours ago, Grandioso said:

I'm totally fine with Russia sending agents/"spies" like this to push whatever bullshit they want, so long as it's out in the open and reciprocal, i.e., we get to do it too. 

I'm not sure you have that whole spy concept all figured out.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46969

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

42D791FE-B710-4AF4-81B5-57499843EE8F_zps

 

Ain’t that nice.

How did this tweet not surface back then?  Yeah, it's not like I follow Russians on Twitter (to be honest, I don't follow anyone on Twitter), but surely someone could have floated this up to the mainstream consciousness.  I assume the intelligence committee had it, and of course had no reason to spread it to the public, but still . . .

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Bruh Man

Bruh Man 3160

Posted
Posted

republicans/trump are moving like their actions have no consequences. brazenly inviting putin to the white house before the mid terms, ignoring election hacking, cosigning this buffoon's lies on top of lies. 

they're acting like a party that already knows the '18 elections are in the bag for them. 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

republicans/trump are moving like their actions have no consequences. brazenly inviting putin to the white house before the mid terms, ignoring election hacking, cosigning this buffoon's lies on top of lies. 

they're acting like a party that already knows the '18 elections are in the bag for them. 

I think there's some desperation on their part. There's a whole intelligence apparatus closing in around them, and it's accellerating. I suspect they'd be happy to keep Trump/Putin out of the news cycle otherwise, but they need to normalize this shit now, so that by the time Mueller et al move, a significant percentage of the country is prepared to accept Russia's interference and Trump's corruption at straight up face value.

That's the optimist in me, at least.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

How did this tweet not surface back then?  Yeah, it's not like I follow Russians on Twitter (to be honest, I don't follow anyone on Twitter), but surely someone could have floated this up to the mainstream consciousness.  I assume the intelligence committee had it, and of course had no reason to spread it to the public, but still . . .

You have to think about what would have happened if this tweet was put on blast at the time.

Would it have changed one vote?  

Would it have been labeled “fake news”?

Would it have alerted treasonous traitors that we were on to them and they need to not be so obvious?

 

Counterintelligence investigations rarely result in big criminal prosecutions.  They mostly lay in the weeds watching and observing.  Operation ghost stories was a 10 year investigation that resulted in the round up of ten Russian spies.

We then traded those spies back to Russia for spies of the Western Alliance.

One of the spies in the trade was Sergei Skripal, who was recently hit with a chemical weapons attack.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Interesting that mistyping “ready” as “really” is as easy in Russian as it is in English.  

And isn’t it Mariia Butina?  Two i’s.

Google translates it as "really" as well.  But they get the name transliteration correct. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46969

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You have to think about what would have happened if this tweet was put on blast at the time.

Would it have changed one vote?  

Would it have been labeled “fake news”?

Would it have alerted treasonous traitors that we were on to them and they need to not be so obvious?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that indications a leading Republican candidate for POTUS was ready to cooperate with Russia would have been a huge red flag for the intelligence community, and something they would want to stop as opposed to "watch & wait".  I get it, McConnell obstructed as he always does, and maybe this was part of the intel that was communicated, but to me it seems like a huge fucking deal.  (I'm really not interested in getting a lecture from you about all your intel knowledge, either.)

Edited by jimmyjazz
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