The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,707]

16 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Clarke is an easy get for the Russians.  He was a lifetime civil servant that found the golden land by embracing the right.  You only need to find a way to put money in his pocket and he will do your bidding.  And I don't even mean under the table.  Just pay him to give speeches and he will say whatever you want.    I also don't think cops get too worked up about some redheaded strange.  He might hit it but he's not going to bat for her causes for that.   $$$ talks.

[BrickHorn 18,424]

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Google translates it as "really" as well.  But they get the name transliteration correct. 

That’s because someone typed it in English, first.  The initial English version included a simple typo (“really” instead of “ready”).  It was then translated to Russian, and the Russian version therefore included the Russian word for “really.”  Which then appeared as “really“ when it was retranslated to English.

It’s a fake tweet.  As if it wasn’t already clear that spies don’t tweet out the status of their covert missions.

Edited July 20, 2018 by BrickHorn

[Tuco 5,093]

20 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Interesting that mistyping “ready” as “really” is as easy in Russian as it is in English.  

And isn’t it Mariia Butina?  Two i’s.

The sentence is clunky as "really," but still works.  "Trump is really for cooperation with the Russians" would imply that either he is being sincere about his intentions or that he is enthusiastic about it.  

And, since it's a Russian-to-English auto-translator, it seems that Maria is probably default for the Cyrillic spelling.  She sometimes used that version as well. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

gonna go out on a limb and suggest that indications a leading Republican candidate for POTUS was ready to cooperate with Russia would have been a huge red flag for the intelligence committee, and something they would want to stop as opposed to "watch & wait". 

The Russian influence operation in the 2016 election was a HUGE intelligence failure on our part, mostly due to a lack of imagination.

There were big RED FLAGS going off in the intelligence community. It just wasn’t OUR intelligence community.  

Christopher Steele was sounding the alarms directly to the FBI from July to Election Day.  He felt so strongly about what was happening and the lack of U.S. response he broke a cardinal rule for spies: “Never talk to the press.”  

Steele met with at least three journalists in October 2016 to get his story into the public sphere.  David Corn reported on it October 31, 2016.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/

No one paid any attention.

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

That's a lot later than February.

If it's fake, so be it.  If not, WTF?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's a lot later than February.

If it's fake, so be it.  If not, WTF?

What is supposedly fake?

[TwiceHorn 31,987]

13 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

It’s not a lot.

I’ve gone to trial in federal court on a case with over 3,000 exhibits. Granted, it was a big case against a big bad guy, but still. I’ve had several cases with 400+ exhibits listed.

Yeah, some cases are very document-intensive, some are not.  One might expect a financial case like bank fraud/tax evasion to be document-intensive, because the underlying financial transactions should be well-papered.  But I think there tends to be an over reliance on documents/exhibits, they bore the shit out of jurors.  And, a lot of lawyers will put documents on an exhibit list that they might use in an overabundance of caution, so an exhibit list might reflect a multiple of the documents actually used at trial.

Patent cases routinely have 1000+ exhibit lists for each side, and often only a fraction of those are actually used.

Does anyone know how long the ED Va case is expected to last?

The witness lists should be more interesting.  Still, I don't think the ED Va case is going to feature the sturm und drang of the money laundering case.

 

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What is supposedly fake?

Just alluding to Brickhorn's assertion.  I don't know if he has heard something legit or if it's just supposition on his part.

[Tuco 5,093]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that indications a leading Republican candidate for POTUS was ready to cooperate with Russia would have been a huge red flag for the intelligence community, and something they would want to stop as opposed to "watch & wait".  I get it, McConnell obstructed as he always does, and maybe this was part of the intel that was communicated, but to me it seems like a huge fucking deal.  (I'm really not interested in getting a lecture from you about all your intel knowledge, either.)

I think you guys are underestimating how much the Russians could do legally.  That's going to be the challenging part of this case.  There was nothing preventing the NRA meeting with Russian officials.  Butina wanted to go on TV, but was Erickson suggested that it would be counterproductive.  The idea that Torshin would tweet that a Presidential candidate was an NRA member and had a pro-Russian foreign policy is nothing absent other context.  It would be little different than a business contact in Iraq reporting that al Sadr has an anti-US policy, or that his anti-US policy was softening.  This tweet is completely in-line with all the other public shit they were doing. 

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

I guess my interpretation of "cooperate" is a little more incriminating than you do.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just alluding to Brickhorn's assertion.  I don't know if he has heard something legit or if it's just supposition on his part.

It’s not a fake tweet.  I’ve been following Torshin on Twitter for a year. That’s his official verified Twitter account he’s had since 2011.

here’s the link 

See the blue check mark...that means Twitter has verified him

 

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

OK, thanks.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

28 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

As if it wasn’t already clear that spies don’t tweet out the status of their covert missions.

She wasn’t in the United States to steal military secrets. She was in the United States to overtly influence U.S. policymakers and public opinion (active measures).  Which isn’t illegal if you register as a foreign agent.  

She apparently forgot to do that.

Oops! 

[BrickHorn 18,424]

According to Google translate, the author of that tweet also either (a) didn’t know Mariia is a woman or (b) doesn’t know the correct female pronoun in Russian.

To summarize, that tweet is fishy as hell.

[Tuco 5,093]

This Washington Post timeline refers to the tweet:

Quote

Feb. 14, 2016: Torshin tweets that Butina is in the United States, where she reports that Trump is “for cooperation with Russia,” according to Mother Jones.

It also mentions the opinion piece she wrote for The National Interest, the group that hosted Trump's foreign policy speech at the Mayflower.  They weren't hiding their preference. 

Quote

It may take the election of a Republican to the White House in 2016 to improve relations between the Russian Federation and the United States.

.....

A second point of shared interest revolves around the global oil market.  As long as America maintains its ban on selling its oil reserves to foreign markets, American oil companies seeking international markets will need international sources of oil.  Russia has them.  Huge proven reserves in the Arctic and huge proven reserves of oil shale within the Russian mainland.  But Russian oil companies lack the technology to exploit these reserves.  And the current economic sanctions have frozen cooperative agreements like that between Russian Rosneft and American ExxonMobil like an Arctic drilling rig.

....

Finally, many Russians have taken note of recent Pew Research Center data that shows that the American Republican Party derives much of its support from social conservatives, businessmen and those that support an aggressive approach to the war against Islamic terrorism.  These are values espoused by United Russia, the current ruling political party in Moscow.

That was on June 12, 2015.  Trump announced his candidacy 4 days later. 

[Gil Bang 26,176]

Fucking Nunes is a Celtics fan
 

 

[BrickHorn 18,424]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She wasn’t in the United States to steal military secrets. She was in the United States to overtly influence U.S. policymakers and public opinion (active measures).  Which isn’t illegal if you register as a foreign agent.  

She apparently forgot to do that.

Oops! 

“Covert” is not limited to military espionage.  It also applies to political espionage and propaganda efforts.  Butina was clearly working under cover.  She was fucking US PERSON 1 to get intel and access, and apparently wasn’t honest with him about her motives.  

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

“Covert” is not limited to military espionage.  It also applies to political espionage and propaganda efforts.  Butina was clearly working under cover.  She was fucking US PERSON 1 to get intel and access, and apparently wasn’t honest with him about her motives.  

Man, if I had a nickel for every time my Dad told me "don't trust any of the Russian spies you fuck" . . .

[Captainant 28,387]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Man, if I had a nickel for every time my Dad told me "don't trust any of the Russian spies you fuck" . . .

They're coming for your precious bodily fluids

[Gil Bang 26,176]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

12 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

“Covert” is not limited to military espionage.  It also applies to political espionage and propaganda efforts.  Butina was clearly working under cover.  She was fucking US PERSON 1 to get intel and access, and apparently wasn’t honest with him about her motives.  

The thing about Russian active measures is it isn't covert. It's out in the open for everyone to see, there is no mystery, and it's not a crime because of manipulation of terms.

Covert would be something like the Russians in operation Ghost Stories where Russians assumed the identity of Canadian babies that died in the 1960's and passed themselves off for Americans. 

Butina never hid the fact that she was a Russian or that she worked with Torshin.  It was as overt as it gets. Unfortunately she managed to penetrate our political system and located several "fellow travelers" and "useful idiots" to advance her cause. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Tuco 5,093]

17 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 

That was on June 12, 2015.  Trump announced his candidacy 4 days later. 

And this from a Bloomberg article:

Quote

In an interview with Bloomberg last year, the gun enthusiast [Torshin] said he’s known Trump for five years and the two men last had a jovial exchange at the National Rifle Association convention in Tennessee in 2015, just before the future president announced his run for the White House.

“Trump said, ‘So, you’re from Russia -- when are you going to invade Latvia?”’ Torshin said in the interview, adding that he assured Trump that Putin had no such designs on the former Soviet republic, which is a member of both the European Union and the U.S.-led NATO military alliance.

They weren't hiding shit.  This is what Torshin was saying in interviews to the American press.

Edit: Best guess - Torshin and Trump discussed the presidential run, Torshin used Butina to plant the article with the National Interest and to queue the Russia diplomacy question less than a month later.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Tuco

[Gil Bang 26,176]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The thing about Russian active measures is it isn't covert. It's out in the open for everyone to see, there is no mystery, and it's not a crime because of manipulation of terms.

Covert would be something like the Russians in operation Ghost Stories where Russians assumed the identity of Canadian babies that died in the 1960's and passed themselves off for Americans. 

Butina never hid the fact that she was a Russian or that she worked with Torshin.  It was as overt as it gets. Unfortunately she managed to penetrate our political system and located several "fellow travelers" and "useful idiots" to advance her cause. 

In Russia, political system penetrate you!

[Texas73 422]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

They're coming for your precious bodily fluids

Mariia Butina got plenty of body fluids. 

[yaqdum 182]

22 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Butina was clearly working under cover.

: )

[yaqdum 182]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Clarke is an easy get for the Russians.

clarke is a wolf white guy in sheep's a black guy's clothing epidermis.

[Anastasis 23,699]

39 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

“In the big scheme of things, it’s powerful exculpatory evidence,” Mr. Giuliani.

 

Lulz. 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

I think the Russian operation evolved over time as it became more clear, and ultimately reality, that Trump would become president.   Assuming that Torshin tweet is legit, it's from a time when Russian intelligence thought its best means of influencing US policy was open lobbying and backroom spycraft.  Now that they have their Manchurian candidate in the Oval, Russia is all "Trump?  Hardly knew who he was," and you wouldn't see a tweet like that. 

[Gil Bang 26,176]

 

[Dahobbs 18,190]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

According to Google translate, the author of that tweet also either (a) didn’t know Mariia is a woman or (b) doesn’t know the correct female pronoun in Russian.

To summarize, that tweet is fishy as hell.

No. That Russian sentence doesn't have a pronoun. Google translates makes it "he" because the verb, peesheyt (I don't know official transliteration), is in the third person, and "he" is the default used by Google in absence of a pronoun. As is common in languages like Russian, the reader understands the sentence means "she" (onah transliterated) in the context.  

Also, I think the sentence is more naturally translated as:

"She writes to me that D. Trump is truly for cooperation with Russia." 

Which is sort of innocuous. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Dahobbs

[jimmyjazz 46,976]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

I think the Russian operation evolved over time as it became more clear, and ultimately reality, that Trump would become president.  

This seems backwards to me.  If it was clear to anyone that Trump was about to win the election, then they were likely involved in the Russian campaign to make it so.  Very few thought Hillary would lose.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This seems backwards to me.  If it was clear to anyone that Trump was about to win the election, then they were likely involved in the Russian campaign to make it so.  Very few thought Hillary would lose.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I'm specifically talking about the people involved in the Russian campaign to make it so and how their approach changed over time as it became clear that they would be successful. 

[Brisketexan 106,618]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No. That Russian sentence doesn't have a pronoun. Google translates makes it "he" because the verb, peesheyt (I don't know official transliteration), is in the third person, and "he" is the default used by Google in absence of a pronoun. As is common in languages like Russian, the reader understands the sentence means "she" (onah transliterated) in the context.  

Also, I think the sentence is more naturally translated as:

"She writes to me that D. Trump is truly for cooperation with Russia." 

Which is sort of innocuous. 

Agreed.  That tweet doesn't say anything incriminating.  A presidential candidate supports cooperation with a foreign country.  Alone, that's about as "nothing" as it gets.  Sure, it gives us an insight into his state of mind at the time, but that just helps paint a picture.  It's not evidence on its own.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  That tweet doesn't say anything incriminating.  A presidential candidate supports cooperation with a foreign country.  Alone, that's about as "nothing" as it gets.  Sure, it gives us an insight into his state of mind at the time, but that just helps paint a picture.  It's not evidence on its own.

It's a little more than that, given that it's a report from someone just arrested as a Russian spy.  Not incriminating itself, but more than insight into his state of mind.   It's insight into the Russian spy's interactions with Trump. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,707]

Now we have a tape, recorded two months before the election, where Trump is telling Cohen to pay off the Playmate and presumably assuring Cohen that he will get reimbursed?    And what are the chances that this is the ONLY time Cohen recorded Trump?

I also assume that this will lead to the 4th or 5th time that Melania's prenup will be re-worked in the last 18 months.   "donald you want me to stay?  $25M more. And don't even think about touching me again."

 

EDIT:  I had forgotten that technically this was the National Enquirer paying off this girlfriend and not Cohen.   Cohen paid off the pornstar.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Brisketexan 106,618]

10 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

It's a little more than that, given that it's a report from someone just arrested as a Russian spy.  Not incriminating itself, but more than insight into his state of mind.   It's insight into the Russian spy's interactions with Trump. 

Yeah, but that goes to the spy's problem (failure to register), not his.  Again, it's not a problem for a candidate to talk to a foreigner and say "I really would like us to have better relations with Portugal/Canada/Russia."

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, but that goes to the spy's problem (failure to register), not his.  Again, it's not a problem for a candidate to talk to a foreigner and say "I really would like us to have better relations with Portugal/Canada/Russia."

Right, but we have a lot more context suggesting that Trump was compromised by Russian intelligence and later colluded with them.  Plenty of shit Trump does could be innocuous in a vaccum, but is suspicious in the context of everything else going on.   Adding a data point of direct communication with a Russian agent is interesting and potentially relevant to the broader story here. 

[Brisketexan 106,618]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

Right, but we have a lot more context suggesting that Trump was compromised by Russian intelligence and later colluded with them.  Plenty of shit Trump does could be innocuous in a vaccum, but is suspicious in the context of everything else going on.   Adding a data point of direct communication with a Russian agent is interesting and potentially relevant to the broader story here. 

Oh, I agree, it is part of the narrative in that it creates some consistency with other actions.  But, as an attorney who can think like a defendant, I could ALSO use that evidence to craft a narrative that the prosecution is trying to criminalize legitimate policy activity (and Trump's mouthpieces have indeed already done so).  For that reason, I would not highlight it -- it doesn't help me that much, and it actually helps craft an exculpatory narrative (false as it may be, it still is a story that they can tell).

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

I suppose.  I don't think this came from Mueller; someone just noticed it online, right?   We're just trying to figure out the full picture here.    There's a whole back story to Trump getting groomed by the GRU, and I wouldn't be surprised if Butina ends up on that timeline. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

54 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I think the Russian operation evolved over time as it became more clear, and ultimately reality, that Trump would become president.   Assuming that Torshin tweet is legit, it's from a time when Russian intelligence thought its best means of influencing US policy was open lobbying and backroom spycraft.  Now that they have their Manchurian candidate in the Oval, Russia is all "Trump?  Hardly knew who he was," and you wouldn't see a tweet like that. 

The Russians influence operation on the 2016 election was largely decentralized although much of it was ordered by Putin himself.

One arm of it had no idea what the other was doing most of the time but it was all part of one HUGE conspiracy. 

Multiple Russian hacking outfits (SVR and GRU) competing against each other. 

People on the ground like Butina and Torshin doing their thing. 

The Internet Reseach Agency running their multi million dollar social media subversion operation.

Kislyak running his game on Sessions and Flynn.   

Wikileaks back channeling with Rebecca Mercer and Don Jr. on cataloging and timing the release of Clinton Emails  

Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akmenshin running their game on Don Jr and Kushner to get the Magnitsky Sanctions lifted.

Manafort, Gates, and Kilimnik working with Deripaska on campaign updates. 

Papadopolous meeting with Kremlin linked Joseph Misfund about the Clinton emails. 

Cohen and Sater working on a secret Trump Tower Moscow deal.

AND THIS IS ONLY PART OF WHAT WE NOW KNOW.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[BrickHorn 18,424]

36 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No. That Russian sentence doesn't have a pronoun. Google translates makes it "he" because the verb, peesheyt (I don't know official transliteration), is in the third person, and "he" is the default used by Google in absence of a pronoun. As is common in languages like Russian, the reader understands the sentence means "she" (onah transliterated) in the context.  

Also, I think the sentence is more naturally translated as:

"She writes to me that D. Trump is truly for cooperation with Russia." 

Which is sort of innocuous. 

Interesting.  That makes a lot more sense.

[Chooky 13,337]

[Tuco 5,093]

Love the movie, as well as the original "The Big Clock."

[Bruh Man 3,160]

lol you guys analyzing that tweet, it's been known about since at least february when NRA stuff started popping up on the scene.. stop trying to decode it, it's old news. 

[bolverk 30,231]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The witness lists should be more interesting.  Still, I don't think the ED Va case is going to feature the sturm und drang of the money laundering case.

 

Repping you just for the use of this phrase. It's posts like these with genteel tips o' the cap that really set shaggy surly apart.

[Hiphopopotamos 21,158]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

The best people 

[Bruh Man 3,160]

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19,558]

wait...so Manafort is an actual, honest to god cuck?

hahahahahahahahahaahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......

 

[Post Oak 20,551]

Cucks on top of cucks.  The new republican party