The Robert Mueller Investigation

[atomheartbevo 89405]

2 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Trump will never resign.  He will burn it all down before admitting failure.

He will resign if there’s a chance the public could find out much he’s worth.

[atomheartbevo 89405]

53 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I just think Trump is dying for respect and recognition.  He wants everyone to think he is this super intelligent person who belongs in the upper class.  That is why he doesn't care about what is written about him as long as he is described as a billionaire.   So he does all this stuff to look wiser and more popular than he is, which he figures will force others to accept him, even if they don't respect him.  Instead of a cheerleader, he paid Cohen, Manafort and others to help him pull off the charade.  His facade is about to get blown away by those very people.  And his family is circling the drain with him. 

According to multiple people, his wealth was the only topic off limits during his Comedy Central roast.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/donald-trump-roast-off-limits-joke.html

Probably has to do with his ego and needing to be seen as more successful than his father.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

This whole scandal is really starting to remind me of the Patrick Dempsey film, "Loverboy."  For those who haven't seen it, Dempsey takes on a summer job delivering pizzas to earn enough money to pay for his next semester in college.   Turns out that one of the other delivery guys is a gigolo for lonely older women who order up a pizza with extra anchovies, and one day Dempsey ends up taking over his gigolo duties.  Shenanigans ensue when his own mother orders up a special delivery.   Just like the protagonist played by Dempsey, Trump became a whore for Russian cash.  Now Mueller has ordered up some extra anchovies and Trump's trying to sneak out the bathroom window before he gets caught. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Ghost of LL 15475]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump was brought into the conspiracy the moment he wrote the bogus adoptions memo on Air Force One.

That's the critical point.  When you go back to that first batch of Russian indictments, the interesting thing is that it omitted the obvious charge of campaign-finance violations.  Instead, the indictments centered on a conspiracy to defraud the United States.

In short, there was a crime, which included various campaign-finance violations.  The crime for which the first set of Russians was indicted was the cover-up--by conspiring to hid the campaign-finance violation, they prevented the United States from learning about it, which is a fraud.

That's what makes the Air Force One memo so important--it expands the conspiracy all the way to Trump.  But . . . he could always get out of it if he said he didn't know shit and didn't have the specific intent to defraud.  If he didn't know the real facts about the Trump Tower meeting, then he could say that he was just spewing bullshit as always.  And that's not really a crime.

BUT--if Trump knew the facts of the Trump Tower meeting at the outset, that makes that defense a non-starter.  He's a co-conspirator on the front-end and on the back-end; both in the planning and in the subsequent cover-up.  And that's a lot harder to defend.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

I like how we’re all saying “if”. You know as if his campaign manager, son, foreign policy advisors, son in law and deputy campaign managers were all making contacts with Russians to manipulate the election without his knowledge and consent. We already know he fired the FBI director investigating him for “Russia stuff” and he personally wrote a misleading story for the press regarding an in person meeting. But sure. “if” the President knew. 

[retread 2951]

That's what will be really interesting. Did the orange pustule have the foresight to detach himself enough from the campaign shenanigans to escape Mueller?

[Celery Man 20882]

Can I get a Cliff's on the Air Force One memo?  From Air Force One, he tweeted a memo that Don Jr was meeting with Russians at trump tower about adopting a baby or something?  I was ignoring all this shit until it became impossible to ignore how extraordinary it is.

[Tuco 5076]

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I like how we’re all saying “if”. You know as if his campaign manager, son, foreign policy advisors, son in law and deputy campaign managers were all making contacts with Russians to manipulate the election without his knowledge and consent. We already know he fired the FBI director investigating him for “Russia stuff” and he personally wrote a misleading story for the press regarding an in person meeting. But sure. “if” the President knew. 

If it can be proven. 

I posted a while ago I have no doubt that Trump knew.  The request originated with Aras.  Junior is not Aras's equal.  It would have been an unthinkable breach of business etiquette for Junior not to have informed Trump of the offer.  Junior is an idiot, but he certainly understood that. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Can I get a Cliff's on the Air Force One memo?  From Air Force One, he tweeted a memo that Don Jr was meeting with Russians at trump tower about adopting a baby or something?  I was ignoring all this shit until it became impossible to ignore how extraordinary it is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/31/trump-statement-donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting

[ndawg 1242]

3 minutes ago, retread said:

That's what will be really interesting. Did the orange pustule have the foresight to detach himself enough from the campaign shenanigans to escape Mueller?

I don't think Trump has the ability to exercise enough discretion to realistically sustain such a firewall.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

Just now, Celery Man said:

Can I get a Cliff's on the Air Force One memo?  From Air Force One, he tweeted a memo that Don Jr was meeting with Russians at trump tower about adopting a baby or something?  I was ignoring all this shit until it became impossible to ignore how extraordinary it is.

After the NYT was set to publish Don Jr emails with Russians (and Don Jr tweeted the emails himself - “If it’s what you say, I love it. Especially late in the summer”) Trump dictated a statement “from his son” to the press that misled facts about the in person meeting 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

But to be clear, POTUS dictating Don Jr.'s statement on Air Force One doesn't necessarily contradict his recent assertion that he didn't know about the meeting, because that could be taken to mean he didn't know about the meeting BEFORE it happened.  The memo was obviously dictated after the meeting occurred. 

[Horn Dog 9671]

2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

I just think Trump is dying for respect and recognition.  He wants everyone to think he is this super intelligent person who belongs in the upper class.  That is why he doesn't care about what is written about him as long as he is described as a billionaire.   So he does all this stuff to look wiser and more popular than he is, which he figures will force others to accept him, even if they don't respect him.  Instead of a cheerleader, he paid Cohen, Manafort and others to help him pull off the charade.  His facade is about to get blown away by those very people.  And his family is circling the drain with him. 

So you're saying this is like Grey's Anatomy and Trump just wants to be Dr. McDreamy?

[A-Tex Devil 2445]

4 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

So you're saying this is like Grey's Anatomy and Trump just wants to be Dr. McDreamy?

No, it's like Can't Buy Me Love and Trump spilled wine all over the white suede dress that is the USA then fucked all of our friends.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

I need to up my Patrick Dempsey game apparently.  No idea what y'all are talking about.

[Ghost of LL 15475]

Mmmmmm, Cindy Mancini.

[seven 1366]

Kind of sounds like trump and putin were connected by a computer error, but now they are happy together. 

[Huckleberry 32694]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

Mmmmmm, Cindy Mancini.

Life kicked her ass after that movie. The actress, of course. Sucks.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

Politico has a [direct quote from the source](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/26/cohen-trump-tower-meeting-russians-745123) of the story, who appears to be making direct legal claims about what Cohen knows:

“Everyone in the room is indictable if one overt act occurred after the meeting, and anyone who knew about the meeting ahead of the time and didn’t call the cops is an accessory or at least a conspirator,” the source said.

That article included some thoughts on legal culpability: 

“The significance of this report will depend on the facts,” said Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney from eastern Michigan. “If Trump was aware of the meeting in advance and encouraged it to go forward, then he could face criminal exposure under a number of different theories.”

“He could be in violation of campaign finance laws for accepting a thing of value from a foreign national in relation to an election” she continued. “If he knew that the source of the information was from illegal hacking, he could be charged with accessory after the fact to a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. He could also be charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States by impeding the fair administration of elections. In addition, he could be charged with obstruction of justice for misdirecting investigators by dictating a misleading press release.”

But Cohen’s statement on its own probably isn’t enough to convince Mueller.

“It’s huge if true. The question will be if it can be corroborated,” said Peter Zeidenberg, a former federal prosecutor. “It’s very possible that Mueller can or will be able to corroborate much of this. I would not be at all surprised if these participants emailed or texted one another about the meeting — before and after.”

I really don't like this term, but it looks like 'big if true' is the right sort of look at it, but right now there is no evidence that it's true beyond Cohen's claim, and it appears [Cohen has no evidence to back up that claim.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/26/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-june-2016-meeting-knowledge/index.html)

In the Politico article, lawyer for the President, Rudy Giuliani, makes a claim that this will come down to a credibility contest without evidence, and without evidence I think he's right:

Giuliani said the dispute about whether Trump approved of the meeting with the Russians would amount to little more than “a credibility contest” between Cohen and other top Trump campaign hands.

pasted from another message board

Edited July 27, 2018 by GW Hayduke

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

But to be clear, POTUS dictating Don Jr.'s statement on Air Force One doesn't necessarily contradict his recent assertion that he didn't know about the meeting, because that could be taken to mean he didn't know about the meeting BEFORE it happened.  The memo was obviously dictated after the meeting occurred. 

I mean, sure. But why try to put words in your son’s mouth if you have no real first hand knowledge of the events in question. What’s more likely: Trump dictated a statement for his son based on a meeting he knew nothing about except through accounts from other people - or - Trump knew exactly what happened and was taking over damage control bc he didn’t trust his son to do it properly?

[Tuco 5076]

I think by the end of this, Donald Trump will truly be shocked by how little loyalty people have to him.  He views himself of this colossal figure, for whom people will run through walls.  It's not reality. They are paid to coddle a rich idiot. Cohen, when faced with the prospect of prison, flipped quickly and hard.  Schiller will do the same. So will Rhona.  I think Trump is operating with this completely false sense of security, and once Mueller starts pulling on some threads, it will unravel like one of his Chinese made ties. 

Just a guess.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Tuco

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

I think by the end of this, Donald Trump will truly be shocked by how little loyalty people have to him.  He views himself of this colossal figure, for whom people will run through walls.  It's not reality. They are paid to coddle a rich idiot. Cohen, when faced with the prospect of prison, flipped quickly and hard.  Schiller will do the same. So will Rhonda.  I think Trump is operating with this completely false sense of security, and once Mueller starts pulling on some threads, it will unravel like one of his Chinese made ties. 

Just a guess.

Everyone keeps focusing on Trump and if will it bring HIM down.  At this point I doubt it but the big story to me is all the others that will go down around him for various crimes done in the name of protecting this two-bit con man.

[Mo Horn 8807]

3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I think by the end of this, Donald Trump will truly be shocked by how little loyalty people have to him.  He views himself of this colossal figure, for whom people will run through walls.  It's not reality. They are paid to coddle a rich idiot. Cohen, when faced with the prospect of prison, flipped quickly and hard.  Schiller will do the same. So will Rhonda.  I think Trump is operating with this completely false sense of security, and once Mueller starts pulling on some threads, it will unravel like one of his Chinese made ties. 

Just a guess.

Sounds like the definition of a classic narcissist. Inflated self value. 

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606]

Another name that could possibly corroborate some of this is Manafort as he was at the meeting. I'm sure he is enjoying his current accommodations and at some point has to realize that staying the course will not end well for him. I would think that is a pretty big piece of juicy testimony for Mueller's team to work with if he were to flip and tell them everything. He has to know he's about to get shithoused in court starting next week... Granted, he has zero loyalty to this country. That much is abundantly clear. He didn't even feign an attempt like cohen did when he was put between a rock and hard place. But with Manafort, he is motivated by his own ego and has to be driven by self-preservation at this point.

[triplehorn 2664]

46 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

“The significance of this report will depend on the facts,” said Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney from eastern Michigan. “If Trump was aware of the meeting in advance and encouraged it to go forward, then he could face criminal exposure under a number of different theories.”

“He could be in violation of campaign finance laws for accepting a thing of value from a foreign national in relation to an election” she continued. “If he knew that the source of the information was from illegal hacking, he could be charged with accessory after the fact to a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. He could also be charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States by impeding the fair administration of elections. In addition, he could be charged with obstruction of justice for misdirecting investigators by dictating a misleading press release.”

everything.gif

The significance of this very discourse today is that the general public is now able to conceive of what allegedly happened being in the realm of possibility, but that it boils down to whether or not there is evidence.  Mueller has all the evidence in spades.  Given the significance of what is at stake re a sitting POTUS, it's arguably more important for the public wellbeing and national stability to be adequately walked up to the revelations and prepared for this reality than having an avalanche of SIGINT evidence and cooperating witnesses dropped on an unsuspecting, blindsided populace.

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Mmmmmm, Cindy Mancini.

Her friends were hot too. That locker room scene...

Also, the slut Ronald was with at the party where he was outed was Miss June 1985 Devin DeVasquez. 

[RayDog 682]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

He will resign if there’s a chance the public could find out much he’s worth.

Since all his money apparently comes from laundered Russian sources it is more properly Putin's money. Trump is just pretending it is his.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Captainant 27436]

In order: 1) Russia offered Don Jr. dirt on Clinton; 2) He replied, "I love it!"; 3) Trump announced he would give a major new speech with dirt on Clinton; 4) Don Jr. attended the meeting but didn't get new dirt; 5) Trump never gave that speech; 6) Trump pleaded, "Russia, if you're listening..."

[atomheartbevo 89405]

3 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

This whole scandal is really starting to remind me of the Patrick Dempsey film, "Loverboy."  For those who haven't seen it, Dempsey takes on a summer job delivering pizzas to earn enough money to pay for his next semester in college.   Turns out that one of the other delivery guys is a gigolo for lonely older women who order up a pizza with extra anchovies, and one day Dempsey ends up taking over his gigolo duties.  Shenanigans ensue when his own mother orders up a special delivery.   Just like the protagonist played by Dempsey, Trump became a whore for Russian cash.  Now Mueller has ordered up some extra anchovies and Trump's trying to sneak out the bathroom window before he gets caught. 

I think what the whole Russian saga reminds me of is Meatballs III: Summer Job.  If you haven't had a chance to see the 2nd-best Meatballs sequel, Patrick Dempsey's character is a young lad trying to lose his virginity.  He watches a porno with his best friend (who happens to be the right girl for him) and then discovers that the star of the porno has died.  The porn star can't get into Heaven unless she does one good deed.  Complicating matters, the girl that Dempsey's character has a crush on is also the town bully's sister.  The porn star decides to try and help Dempsey's character lose his virginity as her one good deed.

In the case of the Mueller investigation, Cohen is representative of Dempsey's character, only rather than trying to lose his virginity, Cohen, the product of a third-rate law school, is trying to earn a modicum of respect in the world.  Just like the porn star in Meatballs III, Mueller is trying to help Cohen pop his respectability cherry, while Trump clearly mirrors the town bully.

Edited July 27, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[jimmyjazz 45546]

I think Cohen is trying NOT to lose his virginity . . . in prison . . . if you get my drift.

[Huckleberry 32694]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

In order: 1) Russia offered Don Jr. dirt on Clinton; 2) He replied, "I love it!"; 3) Trump announced he would give a major new speech with dirt on Clinton; 4) Don Jr. attended the meeting but didn't get new dirt; 5) Trump never gave that speech; 6) Trump pleaded, "Russia, if you're listening..."

Outstanding tidy summary for modern attention spans. Unfortunately it's over two tweets long so you're SOL on getting it to catch on.

[Horn Dog 9671]

This is more like Patrick Dempsey film "Made of Honor".  The plot follows a lifelong playboy who falls in love with his best friend, only to have the friend get engaged and ask him to be her maid of honor.  Before the wedding can occur, he becomes afraid of losing his friend  realizes that he must stop the wedding and goes back on horseback. 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28705]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

In order: 1) Russia offered Don Jr. dirt on Clinton; 2) He replied, "I love it!"; 3) Trump announced he would give a major new speech with dirt on Clinton; 4) Don Jr. attended the meeting but didn't get new dirt; 5) Trump never gave that speech; 6) Trump pleaded, "Russia, if you're listening..."

There was a Giuliani appearance on one of the networks where he said "we didn't use it" in reference to the Trump Tower meeting. Maybe they decided they couldn't use the hacked emails themselves so told them to hold on to them and then release them through Wikileaks when they needed a political weapon. Maybe someone placed a call after the Access Hollywood "grab 'em by the pussy" tape came out. 

[seven 1366]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Outstanding tidy summary for modern attention spans. Unfortunately it's over two tweets long so you're SOL on getting it to catch on.

28 characters over one, I think some trimming could make it viable 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by seven

[Party_Taco 3674]

Uh... what the hell is that picture of Mueller and Trump Jr. all about?

Guy next to Trump Jr. sure looks like some kind of fed as well.

 

Can't post pic cause Southwest wifi is dogshit.

 

 

[Tuco 5076]

34 minutes ago, Captainant said:

In order: 1) Russia offered Don Jr. dirt on Clinton; 2) He replied, "I love it!"; 3) Trump announced he would give a major new speech with dirt on Clinton; 4) Don Jr. attended the meeting but didn't get new dirt; 5) Trump never gave that speech; 6) Trump pleaded, "Russia, if you're listening..."

5.5 Russia posts hacked DNC emails which are damaging to the Clinton campaign.

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

2 minutes ago, Party_Taco said:

Uh... what the hell is that picture of Mueller and Trump Jr. all about?

Guy next to Trump Jr. sure looks like some kind of fed as well.

 

Can't post pic cause Southwest wifi is dogshit.

 

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I think by the end of this, Donald Trump will truly be shocked by how little loyalty people have to him.  He views himself of this colossal figure, for whom people will run through walls.  It's not reality. They are paid to coddle a rich idiot. Cohen, when faced with the prospect of prison, flipped quickly and hard.  Schiller will do the same. So will Rhona.  I think Trump is operating with this completely false sense of security, and once Mueller starts pulling on some threads, it will unravel like one of his Chinese made ties. 

Just a guess.

I agree with this. You think Hope Hicks is going to federal prison? Everyone will abandon him. 

[horncyclist 1384]

Uh... what the hell is that picture of Mueller and Trump Jr. all about?
Guy next to Trump Jr. sure looks like some kind of fed as well.
 
Can't post pic cause Southwest wifi is dogshit.
 
 

Coincidence? Small airport. Guys with junior look like Secret Service.



https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/27/robert-mueller-trump-jr-picture-dca-airport-745144

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

4 minutes ago, Party_Taco said:

Uh... what the hell is that picture of Mueller and Trump Jr. all about?

Guy next to Trump Jr. sure looks like some kind of fed as well.

 

Can't post pic cause Southwest wifi is dogshit.

 

 

Probably secret service

[Tuco 5076]

Maybe Mueller decided he would spook Junior a little, the day after news broke that Cohen would testify that he had committed perjury.

[yaqdum 182]

this whole thing reminds me of the movie la strada, where putin is the brute, trump is the girl, and cohen is the trumpet.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Carter Page without his dumb hat.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

1 minute ago, yaqdum said:

this whole thing reminds me of the movie la strada, where putin is the brute, trump is the girl, and cohen is the trumpet.

Patrick Dempsey was incredible in that film.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

It just occurred to me why Trump and Giuliani leaked this.   The key is when Giuliani said the other witnesses in the room (Hope Hicks, etc.) would confirm that Cohen is lying.  They're notifying the other witnesses of Cohen's testimony so they won't get taken off guard when questioned and getting the story straight for them.   If he did it in a phone call to Hope Hicks, it's witness tampering and conspiracy.   If he does it on CNN, it's not. 

[Gil Bang 25896]

 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

Trump Jr.: "Dad, that Mueller guy is here, should I say hi to him or no.. /whispering (hand over mouth)/.. he looks really mean dad, for real. /normal voice again/ Also, dad, when can I use our plane again, I said I was super sorry about tweeting out those emails about colludin......oops, haha, I mean meeting with those Russian people" 

[retread 2951]

I may just be hearing what I want to hear, but I take some solace when I hear guys like Warner and Schiff talk about the investigation. They probably know more than we do, and they seem to evince a quiet confidence. Maybe I'm wrong.

Edited July 27, 2018 by retread

[triplehorn 2664]

Speaking of quiet, Grassley has all but disappeared.