The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Tyler Durden 132]

double post

Edited September 2, 2018 by Tyler Durden

[Tyler Durden 132]

12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

If the NRA goes down, I will laugh my fucking ass off.

The NRA is similar to the Catholic Church in that no amount of unconscionable actions will make a difference to its members.

[Brisketexan 106,898]

The NRA is similar to the Catholic Church in that no amount of unconscionable actions will make a difference to its members.

True as hell.

But it MAY make a difference to the prosecution.

[Degenerate Gardner 4,159]

5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

If the NRA goes down, I will laugh my fucking ass off.

Assume Trumps' indictment and eventual successful prosecution, and likewise, the decline or outright demises of Fox and the NRA.  Major cultural upheaval.

What do you do with lifetime appointments made by a treasonous illegitimate POTUS ala Gorsuch and Cavanaugh?  Would those 2 justices have to recuse if this issue were heard before the Supremes?  They would have been respectively nominated and confirmed by a treasonous illegitimate POTUS and legislators.  Just asking questions.

[Js1 87,182]

Recusal implies ethics and morals. Lol

[jimmyjazz 47,198]

The jokes write themselves.  "Hey, my buddy needs 5 million barrels of Russian jet fuel, this should be easy to pull off."

[BrickHorn 18,447]

16 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

The jokes write themselves.  "Hey, my buddy needs 5 million barrels of Russian jet fuel, this should be easy to pull off."

Funny twist to this story

 

Anna Chapman is probably the most famous Russian spy in the 21st century.  She was a target in Operation Ghost Stories, a 10 year FBI investigation run by Peter Strozk.

 

 

“Chapman pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign government. She and the other Russians were deported to Russia on 8 July 2010, as part of the 2010 Russia – U.S. prisoner swap. Learning that Chapman had wanted to return to the United Kingdom, the UK government revoked her British citizenship and excluded her from the country.

Since her return to Russia, Chapman has worked in a variety of fields, including for the government as head of a youth council, a catwalk model in Russian fashion shows, and running a television series.”

 

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

Looks like Mueller has his case made on collusion:

 

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

text of the nyt article above:

Quote

By Maggie Haberman and Michael S. Schmidt

Sept. 4, 2018

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, eased up slightly on his demands to question President Trump in the Russia investigation, a shift that came as the president’s lawyers, who have advised him against sitting for an interview, are fighting his desire to answer investigators’ queries.

Mr. Mueller will accept written answers from Mr. Trump on questions about whether his campaign conspired with Russia’s election interference, Mr. Mueller’s office told the president’s lawyers in a letter, two people briefed on it said on Tuesday.

On another significant aspect of the investigation — whether the president tried to obstruct the inquiry itself — Mr. Mueller and his investigators understood that issues of executive privilege could complicate their pursuit of a presidential interview and did not ask for written responses on that matter, according to the letter, which was sent on Friday.

Mr. Mueller did not say that he was giving up on an interview altogether, including on questions of obstruction of justice. But the tone of the letter and the fact that the special counsel did not ask for written responses on obstruction prompted some Trump allies to conclude that if an interview takes place, its scope will be more limited than Mr. Trump’s legal team initially believed, the people said.

The letter was the latest in lengthy negotiations between the two sides about whether Mr. Trump will be interviewed by investigators. “We continue to maintain an ongoing dialogue with the office of the special counsel,” Mr. Trump’s lawyer Jay Sekulow said, adding that it was the legal team’s policy not to discuss its communications with the special counsel’s office. A spokesman for the special counsel declined to comment.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers have tried to put off a formal interview; they have repeatedly said that to determine whether the Trump campaign conspired with Russia’s election interference and whether Mr. Trump tried to obstruct the inquiry, Mr. Mueller can find the answers in the interviews that his investigators have conducted with witnesses, including senior White House aides and administration officials, and more than 1.4 million documents turned over by the White House.

Contrary to his lawyer’s efforts, Mr. Trump has continued to insist to them and to aides that he wants to be questioned by Mr. Mueller. The president believes that he has done nothing wrong and that he can prove that and bring an end to the investigation.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers have dangled written answers as a possibility, and Mr. Mueller’s team appeared receptive to it as an interim measure.

The offer from Mr. Mueller came as new details emerged about how the president’s legal team has handled the interview negotiations. In his new book “Fear,” the reporter Bob Woodward described a March meeting between John M. Dowd, then the head of Mr. Trump’s legal team, and Mr. Mueller and his deputies.

“I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot,” Mr. Dowd told Mr. Mueller, according to the book, due out next week; The New York Times obtained a copy. “And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, ‘I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a goddamn dumbbell. What are we dealing with this idiot for?’”

The book said that Mr. Mueller told Mr. Dowd: “John, I understand.”

In the same meeting, Mr. Mueller and Mr. Dowd began arguing intensely, and Mr. Mueller threatened to subpoena the president.

Mr. Dowd told the president that if he sat for an interview, he would probably be charged with perjury and end up in an “orange jumpsuit,” according to Mr. Woodward.

“I’ll be a real good witness,” the president told Mr. Dowd, the book said.

“You are not a good witness,” Mr. Dowd told the president. “Mr. President, I’m afraid I just can’t help you.”

Mr. Dowd resigned from the team shortly after because he said he could not represent the president if he wanted to do the interview.

Mr. Dowd denied the account.

“I have not read Bob Woodward’s book, which appears to be the most recent in an endless cycle of accusations and misrepresentations based on anonymous statements from unknown malcontents,” Mr. Dowd said in a statement in which he specifically denied the jumpsuit comment.

“It was a great honor and distinct privilege to serve President Trump,” Mr. Dowd said.

Mr. Woodward said he stood by his reporting.

- in retrospect: intense argument between Mueller and Dowd that led to a subpoena threat.

-now Mueller will accept written answers from Mr. Trump on questions about whether his campaign conspired with Russia’s election interference.

-tone of the Mueller letter to Trump legal team and the fact that Mueller did not ask for written responses on obstruction prompted some Trump allies to conclude that if an interview takes place, its scope will be more limited than Mr. Trump’s legal team initially believed.  

 

Especially re Trump, written responses might actually be easier to use in demonstrating state of mind than attempting to interpret his conscience from an irrational live interview.

[jimmyjazz 47,198]

. . . I'll go ahead and guess that Mueller isn't going to ask many questions to which he doesn't know the answer.

Edited September 5, 2018 by jimmyjazz

[TwiceHorn 32,079]

Actually, the injunction against asking open-ended questions to which you don't know the answer isn't as strong with written questions (interrogatories) as it is with a live witness in court.  It's harder to muck up the written answer to written questions and damn near impossible to retreat from an inaccurate answer.  Also, it's almost impossible to say "I don't know" or "I dont remember" to a written question.

I imagine that there will be a bunch of punchy short questions that admit only one answer, and maybe a few that invite explanation or narration, that will be very difficult to credibly evade and nearly impossible to do a 180 on later.

 

Like the Lester Hayes interview, in live questioning, Trump is likely to admit that he killed Christ and is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler .  But he's also liable to contradict himself on the same subject matter about 30 different times.

Edited September 5, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Buzzrock 15,136]

Looks like Mueller has his case made on collusion:
 
 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

[DDD Dad 14,649]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

. . . I'll go ahead and guess that Mueller isn't going to ask many questions to which he doesn't know the answer.

You're really going out on a limb there.

[Buzzrock 15,136]

Actually, the injunction against asking open-ended questions to which you don't know the answer isn't as strong with written questions (interrogatories) as it is with a live witness in court.  It's harder to muck up the written answer to written questions and damn near impossible to retreat from an inaccurate answer.  Also, it's almost impossible to say "I don't know" or "I dont remember" to a written question.
I imagine that there will be a bunch of punchy short questions that admit only one answer, and maybe a few that invite explanation or narration, that will be very difficult to credibly evade and nearly impossible to do a 180 on later.

Yes or no: have you stopped beating your wife?

[DDD Dad 14,649]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

 

The purpose of written answers to questions is to get Trump officially on the record in direct response to questions from the prosecutor.  The prosecutor may or may not have all of the information responsive to the question from other sources (more likely he does than not) but without that question on the record it makes it easier for Trump to wiggle out later under questioning after an indictment or article of impeachment.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

 

Just asking questions?

Mueller is putting the country needlessly at risk?

Seriously?

 

Mueller?

 

Bahahahahaha.  That was a good one.

[jimmyjazz 47,198]

Well, chemo puts the cancer patient at risk.

[TwiceHorn 32,079]

And if Mueller can secure the agreement from Trumpco that there won't be objections except to the form of the question (with an opportunity to redraft), that could be a monster win.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

And if Mueller can secure the agreement from Trumpco that there won't be objections except to the form of the question (with an opportunity to redraft), that could be a monster win.

They won't.  They'll assert Exec privilege.

[hobbes2702 13,477]

25 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

 

Oh the concern trolls are back.

[TwiceHorn 32,079]

17 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

They won't.  They'll assert Exec privilege.

Well I am sure that Mueller's motivation to do this stems in part from wanting to avoid a giant skirmish over privilege.  A subpoena would prolong the investigation by probably six months at the shortest.  Maybe it's just the specter of what a complete shitshow oral testimony would be.

[WhatTheBuck 28,929]

57 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

 

How so? How is it hurting the country? Name some of those ways "that we all know."

[WhatTheBuck 28,929]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

The purpose of written answers to questions is to get Trump officially on the record in direct response to questions from the prosecutor.  The prosecutor may or may not have all of the information responsive to the question from other sources (more likely he does than not) but without that question on the record it makes it easier for Trump to wiggle out later under questioning after an indictment or article of impeachment.

Trump will tweet answers that contradict the ones his legal team write for him. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34,106]

Actually, the injunction against asking open-ended questions to which you don't know the answer isn't as strong with written questions (interrogatories) as it is with a live witness in court.  It's harder to muck up the written answer to written questions and damn near impossible to retreat from an inaccurate answer.  Also, it's almost impossible to say "I don't know" or "I dont remember" to a written question.
I imagine that there will be a bunch of punchy short questions that admit only one answer, and maybe a few that invite explanation or narration, that will be very difficult to credibly evade and nearly impossible to do a 180 on later.
 
Like the Lester Hayes interview, in live questioning, Trump is likely to admit that he killed Christ and is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler .  But he's also liable to contradict himself on the same subject matter about 30 different times.

So basically from a non-lawyer mind it would be ideally a bunch of yes/no questions, right? It would be awesome if they were all very specific in the form of something like, "were you at trump tower on this date, at this time, on this floor, in this room?" No, and you're lying. Yes, and you admitted guilt.

That could give me a freedom boner.

[kevwun 16,438]

He's going to lie on the record.  Doesn't matter if it's written or verbally.

[Mdhorn 6,166]

10 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Trump will tweet answers that contradict the ones his legal team write for him. 

or he may release the questions to the public immediately as being so stupid that this will be why he's not answering any of them and shutting it down. 

[Biff Tannen 46,166]

29 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

or he may release the questions to the public immediately as being so stupid that this will be why he's not answering any of them and shutting it down. 

Some form of this is what I suspect.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Mueller Office:  ”Mr President, we want to do the questioning live on national television in prime time. Just think of the ratings.  You will have the highest rated television event in U.S. history.  Bigger than the Super Bowl.  It’s a tremendous opportunity.”

[27-25 2,085]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

He's going to lie on the record.  Doesn't matter if it's written or verbally.

My fear is that by allowing for written responses his lawyers (yes, even Rudi) will doctor the text up beyond all recognition.  Complete sentences might actually appear, as if by magic.  The DOTUS' tendency to lie unabated will be scrubbed from the document.  Mueller knows FAR more than me of course, but at this point I'm not sure what good those written responses will be.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34,106]

55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mueller Office:  ”Mr President, we want to do the questioning live on national television in prime time. Just think of the ratings.  You will have the highest rated television event in U.S. history.  Bigger than the Super Bowl.  It’s a tremendous opportunity.”

oh man, he would do it too

[Chad Fuck 18,135]

Remember the collective eye-roll the country did at Bill Clinton parsing "what the meaning of 'is' is"?

It would be a couple hours of that.  Peoples' eyes would be rolling so hard you'd think they put X in the tap water across the country.  Rudy knows it, and that's why they've tried to keep the Dotard on a leash.

I just hope Dotus breaks free and makes a leap for the limelight.  It'll be spectacular.

[DDD Dad 14,649]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Remember the collective eye-roll the country did at Bill Clinton parsing "what the meaning of 'is' is"?

It would be a couple hours of that.  Peoples' eyes would be rolling so hard you'd think they put X in the tap water across the country.  Rudy knows it, and that's why they've tried to keep the Dotard on a leash.

I just hope Dotus breaks free and makes a leap for the limelight.  It'll be spectacular.

More like "you want the truth?"

[Mdhorn 6,166]

57 minutes ago, 27-25 said:

My fear is that by allowing for written responses his lawyers (yes, even Rudi) will doctor the text up beyond all recognition.  Complete sentences might actually appear, as if by magic.  The DOTUS' tendency to lie unabated will be scrubbed from the document.  Mueller knows FAR more than me of course, but at this point I'm not sure what good those written responses will be.

They still have to answer to that which Mueller has evidence would be my guess.  And dancing around it or pleading the 5th will be seen as a yes, so that's not going to cut it either.    Trump will most assuredly go public with the questionnaire in an attempt to discredit it.  To this my question is, would this too be considered obstruction?

[jimmyjazz 47,198]

At some point the many incidents of obstruction are going to have to be prosecuted.

[Mdhorn 6,166]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

At some point the many incidents of obstruction are going to have to be prosecuted.

I wonder if his inner circle will go down first or will it be an outright family affair?

[David Dennison 19,541]

5 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I wonder if his inner circle will go down first or will it be an outright family affair?

I believe Don Jr. is going to be indicted.

 

[Buzzrock 15,136]

16 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How so? How is it hurting the country? Name some of those ways "that we all know."

Go back to page one and start reading.

[David Dennison 19,541]

17 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

 

He has plenty to move forward. Have you seen how many people he's already indicted? How many convictions he already has?

Donald J. Trump is fucked.

[Buzzrock 15,136]

I notice some of you guys go to the "just asking questions" "trolling" trench when you don't have much to add.

According to 90% of the CR, Trump is an admitted felon, willing traitor and conspirator, and/or Hitler (depending on where you are on the spectrum). If it's so easy for a bunch of middle aged message board guys to sort out, what's taking Mueller so long?

[Buzzrock 15,136]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

He has plenty to move forward. Have you seen how many people he's already indicted? How many convictions he already has?

Donald J. Trump is fucked.

So what's the hold up?

[Longhorn_Fan68 34,106]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

So what's the hold up?

keep betting on this line of thinking. I'm sure it will serve you well.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

I notice some of you guys go to the "just asking questions" "trolling" trench when you don't have much to add.

According to 90% of the CR, Trump is an admitted felon, willing traitor and conspirator, and/or Hitler (depending on where you are on the spectrum). If it's so easy for a bunch of middle aged message board guys to sort out, what's taking Mueller so long?

It's not. 

 

[David Dennison 19,541]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

I notice some of you guys go to the "just asking questions" "trolling" trench when you don't have much to add.

According to 90% of the CR, Trump is an admitted felon, willing traitor and conspirator, and/or Hitler (depending on where you are on the spectrum). If it's so easy for a bunch of middle aged message board guys to sort out, what's taking Mueller so long?

You are obviously not a lawyer. This thing is moving very briskly.

[David Dennison 19,541]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

So what's the hold up?

There is no hold up. 

[Buzzrock 15,136]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

keep betting on this line of thinking. I'm sure it will serve you well.

More one-liners from the peanut gallery.

[triplehorn 2,664]

17 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Why does he need written answers from Trump? I thought this was the most open and shut case in history.

Intemperate thought: at what point is Mueller putting the country needlessly at risk by dragging this out? If he has enough then let’s end the fucking circus already. It’s awful for the country in numerous ways that we all know.

If he doesn’t have enough to move forward, then what does that say?

 

Bottom line : Trump is a part of a much bigger investigation into illegal foreign influence and corruption.  Team Mueller has deftly gone about its work for over a year despite a constant assault from the WH.  One way of looking at the stalemate over interviewing Trump is that it's buying more time for Mueller to go deeper in multiple other areas while Trump focuses on holding his ground, presumably thinking there's still a chance.  

[Dahobbs 18,321]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I notice some of you guys go to the "just asking questions" "trolling" trench when you don't have much to add.

According to 90% of the CR, Trump is an admitted felon, willing traitor and conspirator, and/or Hitler (depending on where you are on the spectrum). If it's so easy for a bunch of middle aged message board guys to sort out, what's taking Mueller so long? 

Just because he has come to the same conclusion doesn't mean he has all the evidence he wants. Could he make a case already if he wanted? I personally think so. But, as the saying goes, if you come at the king, you best not miss. Waiting a little bit longer gets you more evidence so that your shot aims true.  It allows you to really clean the crevices where the other scum is hiding (or do you think all the other indictments and convictions count for nothing?).

Edited September 5, 2018 by Dahobbs

[David Dennison 19,541]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

More one-liners from the peanut gallery.

So you have no answer to the fact that compared to other investigations, Mueller's is moving along rather quickly.