The Robert Mueller Investigation

[shnsajax 3607]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump has certainly been his own worst enemy in this whole process.  He’s probably not as guilty of the underlying conspiracy crimes as he’s made out to be but his constant efforts to obstruct justice and being so myopic in thinking the investigation is all about him will be his undoing.

I would factor in emoluments too.

[triplehorn 2664]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He’s probably not as guilty of the underlying conspiracy crimes as he’s made out to be but his constant efforts to obstruct justice and being so myopic in thinking the investigation is all about him will be his undoing.

Narrator:  He is.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, shnsajax said:

I would factor in emoluments too.

Trump probably still has no idea what that is.

Emoluments? Never heard of him, never part of this administration, he was a low level coffee boy.

[Pig Bellmont 8884]

2 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

All attorney-client communication except those involving the crime/fraud exception would be privileged and thus inadmissible.  Anything investigated due to seeing privileged communication would inadmissible. This to keep the main investigation team from seeing those things.

This is wrong. Attorney-client communication seeking or providing legal advice is privileged. A client emailing his attorney tax returns is not privileged for example. An attorney executing business negotiations and reporting back to his client is not privileged, for example. There are plenty situations where attorneys and clients communicate and the emails, etc are not covered by any privilege  

The DOJ has procedures in place to prevent any impermissible disclosures to the prosecutors. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

Narrator:  He is.

I dunno, seems like he could have been coerced into a lot of stuff but he’s still liable nevertheless.

[DDD Dad 14646]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hey, it's a hot take from "Chrispy"!  

 

He had to take a break from hearting all of the Trumpsters' posts to keep them green.  All those clicks can be very tiring.

[jimmyjazz 47130]

Yeah, I'm not so sure what this sudden "oh he's probably just ignorant and impulsive" white-washing stance is about.  I think it's highly likely he's in it neck deep with multiple Russian banks and they know they have him by the balls.  Does that mean he's trying to sell the US down the river?  No.  Does that mean he'll act in his own best interests regarding eased sanctions, etc.?  Hell yes it does.

[retread 2951]

It will be really interesting to read the flow chart of who knew what and who was directing the activity.

Sessions and Pence are seasoned politicians. They had to know that laws were being broken, but they may be in it as deep as anyone.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34102]

Lulz:

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3871]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump has certainly been his own worst enemy in this whole process.  He’s probably not as guilty of the underlying conspiracy crimes as he’s made out to be but his constant efforts to obstruct justice and being so myopic in thinking the investigation is all about him will be his undoing.

When we are done, there will be a half dozen Agnew’s and Dean’s but no Nixon’s.  

[DDD Dad 14646]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

no, you don't have a solid understanding of how this works.

He's just asking questions.

Edit: dammit, I try to get some work done and I'm 2 pages late with this.

Edited April 10, 2018 by DDD Dad

[TornACL 7792]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, I'm not so sure what this sudden "oh he's probably just ignorant and impulsive" white-washing stance is about.  I think it's highly likely he's in it neck deep with multiple Russian banks and they know they have him by the balls.  Does that mean he's trying to sell the US down the river?  No.  Does that mean he'll act in his own best interests regarding eased sanctions, etc.?  Hell yes it does.

Who is arguing this?

[jimmyjazz 47130]

Just now, TornACL said:

Who is arguing this?

My reaction was to a Hugo post on the last page, but I've seen all kinds of waffling on Facebook, too.

Yeah, I know.

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

rMy reaction was to a Hugo post on the last page, but I've seen all kinds of waffling on Facebook, too.

Yeah, I know.

If this goes to an impeach/convict vote, that rationale may well be used by the Rs to weasel out of a Yes vote.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by retread

[TornACL 7792]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

My reaction was to a Hugo post on the last page, but I've seen all kinds of waffling on Facebook, too.

Yeah, I know.

I think referring to it as whitewashing is a little strong, and maybe misses the point. Hugo can certainly speak for himself, but when I pointed out Trump's ignorance I certainly didn't mean to suggest that he just became stupid in 2015. He's been a buffoon his entire life, and has a proven track record of corruption.

I certainly would never suggest that Trump would "innocently" break the rules through ignorance of the rules. It's that he did the same shady back-room shit he's always done his entire life, but failed to grasp the increased gravity and scrutiny of taking his real estate bullshit game to the world of geopolitics. That doesn't make it any less bad, and doesn't mean he shouldn't be nailed to the fucking wall if the evidence points where I think it will point.

Edited April 10, 2018 by TornACL

[jimmyjazz 47130]

I didn't mean to impugn your perspective.  I just can't really abide much in the way of "well, he's kind of an idiot", mostly because it smells like interest is waning, and in my world, I want throngs of highly interested people at the ballot box come November.

[relapse98 634]

50 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm sure they really believed they were just doing the same shit all politicians do.

Can't be. That would mean that 62 million people were suckered into a false belief he would drain the swamp.

 

All he's done is make the swamp deeper. Good job Donald. Is there anything you touch that doesn't turn to shit? Your building catches fire. Your pr0n star mistress has some fucked up titties. You're on your third wife. You've filed bankruptcy 6 times. Good god, you are the fucking reverse Midas.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

24 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I think referring to it as whitewashing is a little strong, and maybe misses the point. Hugo can certainly speak for himself, but when I pointed out Trump's ignorance I certainly didn't mean to suggest that he just became stupid in 2015. He's been a buffoon his entire life, and has a proven track record of corruption.

I certainly would never suggest that Trump would "innocently" break the rules through ignorance of the rules. It's that he did the same shady back-room shit he's always done his entire life, but failed to grasp the increased gravity and scrutiny of taking his real estate bullshit game to the world of geopolitics. That doesn't make it any less bad, and doesn't mean he shouldn't be nailed to the fucking wall if the evidence points where I think it will point.

The affluenza defense...lol

Kinda what I was getting at.

The point I was trying to make was Trump is no criminal mastermind but he has always been a survivor.

He’s never had to face any serious consequences so he’s in uncharted territory on a personal level and he’s handling it poorly.

He’s a cornered rat and he thinks he can miracle his way out of it like he always does but it’s not going to work this time.  Even if he doesn’t get impeached, the remainder of his life will likely be increasingly miserable.

The story of Donald Trump is a true American tragedy.

 

[atomheartbevo 90638]

32 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I didn't mean to impugn your perspective.  I just can't really abide much in the way of "well, he's kind of an idiot", mostly because it smells like interest is waning, and in my world, I want throngs of highly interested people at the ballot box come November.

If he tried to fire Mueller, I think plenty of highly-interested people will be voting come November. 

And Hillary won’t be on the ballot. 

[686 3461]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

I don't disagree with that at all.  It was more Fredo than Benedict Arnold.

They definitely have the "banging cocktail waitresses two at a time" thing down.

[Chuckie Finster 23038]

23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If he tried to fire Mueller, I think plenty of highly-interested people will be voting come November. 

And Hillary won’t be on the ballot. 

I do think that those of us who spend a lot of time in here tend to forget just how uninformed the general public is about politics.  Most of the storylines coming out of the administration, while simple to those of us that keep up with this every day, are just too complicated and/or uninteresting for a lot of folks out there.  I'd be willing to bet that less than 30% of average Americans could even name the guy in charge of investigating Trump.

But "he fired the guy investigating him"?  That's a data point simple enough to stick.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

LOLZ 

[triplehorn 2664]

NBC's Robert Costa today:

Quote

House Intel Chair Devin Nunes privately told several colleagues today that it's time for House GOP to hold Rosenstein and Wray in contempt of Congress, should they refuse to hand over requested docs, according to two people familiar with the discussions...

he's still kicking.

[DDD Dad 14646]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

LOLZ 

You had to know this was coming, right?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

You had to know this was coming, right?

Pretty sure I specifically called it

[DDD Dad 14646]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pretty sure I specifically called it

If you didn't I'm pretty sure I did quite some time ago. I'm sure as hell not going back to that other place to look for it, though.

Edited April 10, 2018 by DDD Dad

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

March 25th

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I’m sure that was a pleasant visit 

 

[Mdhorn 6166]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The affluenza defense...lol

Kinda what I was getting at.

The point I was trying to make was Trump is no criminal mastermind but he has always been a survivor.

He’s never had to face any serious consequences so he’s in uncharted territory on a personal level and he’s handling it poorly.

He’s a cornered rat and he thinks he can miracle his way out of it like he always does but it’s not going to work this time.  Even if he doesn’t get impeached, the remainder of his life will likely be increasingly miserable.

The story of Donald Trump is a true American tragedy.

 

screw that--Trump put himself in position of mastermind.  Remember how he knew more than his generals and had a high IQ, one of the smartest and best people ever? He surrounded himself with other rats that would swear fealty to his dumb self so he could be king.  F'K HIM.  Saying he isn't a criminal mastermind is dismissive and I want him treated like the huge threat he pretends to be.  Christ, he's leader of the free world, he damn sure is a threat.  He thought he could run his scam from the highest position in the free world and his fall should be tremendous.  He was ruthless to get to the point and should be treated so.  The whole Republican party should be treated as a criminal enterprise for allowing this to continue unabated daily.    

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, Mdhorn said:

screw that--Trump put himself in position of mastermind.  Remember how he knew more than his generals and had a high IQ, one of the smartest and best people ever? He surrounded himself with other rats that would swear fealty to his dumb self so he could be king.  F'K HIM.  Saying he isn't a criminal mastermind is dismissive and I want him treated like the huge threat he pretends to be.  Christ, he's leader of the free world, he damn sure is a threat.  He thought he could run his scam from the highest position in the free world and his fall should be tremendous.  He was ruthless to get to the point and should be treated so.  The whole Republican party should be treated as a criminal enterprise for allowing this to continue unabated daily.    

Technically, the American people elected Trump mastermind 

[Mdhorn 6166]

37 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

NBC's Robert Costa today:

he's still kicking.

He's dirty and wants the documents as much as Gollum wanted his precious.

[DDD Dad 14646]

CNN reporting that Trump is considering firing Rosenstein.

[Mdhorn 6166]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Technically, the American people elected Trump mastermind 

He won with a huge heap of outside assistance which is what has been unraveling.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

CNN reporting that Trump is considering firing Rosenstein.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

He won with a huge heap of outside assistance which is what has been unraveling.  

As much as I agree Trump wouldn’t have won without Kremlin assistance, it’s still on the 63,000,000 American people that voted for Dotard.  

Trump is a disaster of our own making.  We need to own it.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[GSU&UT 1799]

We're about to get a Saturday Night Massacre but without a congress that will do shit. This is incredibly depressing, bunch of fucking cowards.

[retread 2951]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

As much as I agree Trump wouldn’t have won without Kremlin assistance, it’s still on the 63,000,000 American people that voted for Dotard.  

Trump is a disaster of our own making.  We need to own it.

^

2 hours ago, TornACL said:

I certainly would never suggest that Trump would "innocently" break the rules through ignorance of the rules. It's that he did the same shady back-room shit he's always done his entire life, but failed to grasp the increased gravity and scrutiny of taking his real estate bullshit game to the world of geopolitics. That doesn't make it any less bad, and doesn't mean he shouldn't be nailed to the fucking wall if the evidence points where I think it will point.

This is what will be interesting to me. Trump doesn't understand how health insurance works, so he damn sure doesn't understand the vagaries of the law as it relates to presidential campaigns and transitions. He does have a team of lawyers around him who do know all the ins and outs though. So those conversations must have taken place where his lawyers told him that they might be breaking the law. His lawyers and advisers probably had numerous conversations with him about the dangerous territory into which they were wandering.

From what we've seen over the last year, he probably told them that they didn't know what they were talking about, that he knew the law better, and/or that the 'emails would never see the light of day' (like Hope Hicks said).

Edited April 10, 2018 by retread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, GSU&UT said:

We're about to get a Saturday Night Massacre but without a congress that will do shit. This is incredibly depressing, bunch of fucking cowards.

Everything is going to be okay.  The midterms are all that matters.  The investigation will not stop regardless of Trump’s actions.

[GSU&UT 1799]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Everything is going to be okay.  The midterms are all that matters.  The investigation will not stop regardless of Trump’s actions.

Sure there may be a huge amount of seats flipped, but I don't think the Dems are going to gain control of the Senate. It's still depressing to see a large part of our country completely reject the principles on which it was founded because it makes the libs mad.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Sure there may be a huge amount of seats flipped, but I don't think the Dems are going to gain control of the Senate. It's still depressing to see a large part of our country completely reject the principles on which it was founded because it makes the libs mad.

Trump should have been impeached the moment he fired Comey and admitted it was because of the Russia investigation.

He should have been impeached after Charlottesville.

He should have been impeached after wanting to partner up with Putin on cyber security.

He should have been impeached after he leaked  top secret intelligence to Russian spies in the Oval Office.

Principles left the GOP long ago.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mdhorn 6166]

4 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Sure there may be a huge amount of seats flipped, but I don't think the Dems are going to gain control of the Senate. It's still depressing to see a large part of our country completely reject the principles on which it was founded because it makes the libs mad.

they're the ones susceptible to Wayne Pierre telling them the liberal rich 1%ers with their educations want to take their guns away.  There's no fixing stupid.

[triplehorn 2664]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

We're about to get a Saturday Night Massacre but without a congress that will do shit. This is incredibly depressing, bunch of fucking cowards.

Multiple GOP Senators keep talking about the political devastation for Trump if he fires Mueller.  The real political devastation will be if and when Trump does it and lobs that flaming turd in their laps to do shit about it.  

Sen. Dent just made a reference to the Tillis and Coons Special Counsel Integrity Act still sitting in an upper desk drawer.

Trump is screwed either way.  It's the Congressional GOP that still has a marginally intact escape tunnel.  They cannot afford to let Trump gut the investigation and do nothing.

 

[Mapache 1117]

22 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW protests if Mueller is fired

Over 800 sites in the US have organized to go into rapid response mode and protest within hours of an announcement of Rosenstein or Mueller. Ted Lieu just said on CNN that if the moron does this action the people in the streets will be bigger than the Women's March and March For Our Lives. Check out the map to see if one is close to you (you can always organize yourself too).

https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response-events/search/ 
 

 

 

[Mdhorn 6166]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump should have been impeached the moment he fired Comey and admitted it was because of the Russia investigation.

He should have been impeached after Charlottesville.

He should have been impeached after wanting to partner up with Putin on cyber security.

He should have been impeached after he leaked  top secret intelligence to Russian spies in the Oval Office.

Principles left the GOP long ago.

and when they were trying to establish back channels.  There's a whole host of times.  Ryan should have disciplined Devin Nunes when he recused himself and then continuously interfered.  Ryan has no spine and there's a reason for this.  He's probably involved as well.  

 

[Mapache 1117]

NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW protests if Mueller is fired.

Over 800 sites in the US have organized to go into rapid response mode and protest within hours of an announcement of Rosenstein or Mueller. Ted Lieu just said on CNN that if the moron does this action the people in the streets will be bigger than the Women's March and March For Our Lives. Check out the map to see if one is close to you (you can always organize yourself too).

https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response-events/search/ 
 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

Multiple GOP Senators keep talking about the political devastation for Trump if he fires Mueller.  The real political devastation will be if and when Trump does it and lobs that flaming turd in their laps to do shit about it.  

Sen. Dent just made a reference to the Tillis and Coons Special Counsel Integrity Act still sitting in an upper desk drawer.

Trump is screwed either way.  It's the Congressional GOP that still has a marginally intact escape tunnel.  They cannot afford to let Trump gut the investigation and do nothing.

 

Exactly, the political consequences of the GOP doing nothing would be more catastrophic for the party

When do you think Trump is going to do his interview with Mueller?

 

 

[Mdhorn 6166]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Everything is going to be okay.  The midterms are all that matters.  The investigation will not stop regardless of Trump’s actions.

My concern is whether Devin, Trump, Ryan and co. are able to get their hands on any of Muellers findings they've been trying to destroy up to now.  They're not going to be content with just firing Mueller if the evidence remains.  And they've shown dumb ingenuity about getting around security limitations and challenging what they are allowed to do. 

[DixonHur 11959]

A couple questions for the legal eagles here...

Can Trump actually fire Mueller?  Seems weird that the guy being investigated could fire the guy doing the investigating.

But if so, what happens to all the evidence, indictments, plea deals, etc. if Trump fires Mueller? 

 

[Brisketexan 106876]

Exactly, the political consequences of the GOP doing nothing would be more catastrophic for the party

 
 

False. The GOP Congress will do nothing. Zero. Nada. When trump fires rosenstein and Mueller (and he’s gonna fire both). Because...all that matters is their base. The GOP base is 100% Trumpkin now, so GOP officials can’t go against trump. Ever. They’ll be primaried.