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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, Mdhorn said:

My concern is whether Devin, Trump, Ryan and co. are able to get their hands on any of Muellers findings they've been trying to destroy up to now.  They're not going to be content with just firing Mueller if the evidence remains.  And they've shown dumb ingenuity about getting around security limitations and challenging what they are allowed to do. 

The three stooges are not going to outsmart Mueller and his team of Mensa members.

Europe also has access to a lot of stuff Ryan, Nunes, and Trump could never get to.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

A couple questions for the legal eagles here...

Can Trump actually fire Mueller?  Seems weird that the guy being investigated could fire the guy doing the investigating.

But if so, what happens to all the evidence, indictments, plea deals, etc. if Trump fires Mueller? 

 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If I remember correctly, Dershowitz has been vocal for quite a while that Trump has every right to fire Mueller.   It's happening?

Trump can not legally fire Mueller directly.  

He must have an accomplice in obstructing justice, either via Rosenstein or Sessions 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 


False. The GOP Congress will do nothing. Zero. Nada. When trump fires rosenstein and Mueller (and he’s gonna fire both). Because...all that matters is their base. The GOP base is 100% Trumpkin now, so GOP officials can’t go against trump. Ever. They’ll be primaried.

 

Not saying I disagree, but it's their only clearly most often stated red line.  There's some significance to that declaration.  The significance may only be even greater fear.  Their do nothingness already has them deep deep underground, but this would be a new order of magnitude hell to pay.  It's the disinterested complacent middle to keep an eye on, not Trumpaloons.

fwiw, I'm still banking on some unsealing of indictments on GOP/RNC when the time calls for it.  It's difficult, but I am learning patience with this ordeal.

Edited by triplehorn
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heso

heso 2813

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It’s absolutely hilarious to watch a man whose own loyalty extends no further than his last name slowly come to the realization that the loyalty of everyone he expected to protect him stops the second their careers or freedom are in doubt. 

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Mapache

Mapache 1117

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Laurence Tribe-Anyone advising Trump he has power to remove Mueller better read In re Hennen (1839), reaff’d by CJ Taft (1926) and CJ Roberts (2010), holding that POTUS cannot personally remove an officer appointed by a member of his Cabinet unless an Act of Congress greenlights such removal.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/983867157485416449

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

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2 hours ago, Mapache said:

If he knows he could do time in prison he may take desperate measures.

If he could have gotten rid of Mueller before now, he would have.

Trump thinks he has a lot more power than he actually does, but somebody has been telling him not to try and get rid of Mueller, and he's been listening to them, or he's scared shitless of Mueller.

Hell, Trump can't even face a lot of the people that he fires.  True cuck or something.

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ChiTownDoc

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19 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If he could have gotten rid of Mueller before now, he would have.

Trump thinks he has a lot more power than he actually does, but somebody has been telling him not to try and get rid of Mueller, and he's been listening to them, or he's scared shitless of Mueller.

Hell, Trump can't even face a lot of the people that he fires.  True cuck or something.

Odds he pisses down his leg if ever face to face with Mueller for an interview?  hunnert %

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TwiceHorn

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Upon further consideration of the "taint team" concept, while I believe it's necessary and a valid theory, I'm not convinced that there isn't something else at play with Cohen that is fairly outside the scope of the Special Counsel mandate.  Otherwise, I think Mueller could have obtained the warrant and left the broader FBI and any investigative group/legal team outside of his to be the taint team.  There wouldn't seem to be any need to have the SDNY obtain and execute the warrant otherwise.

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TwiceHorn

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3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If I remember correctly, Dershowitz has been vocal for quite a while that Trump has every right to fire Mueller.   It's happening?

Here's the deal.  The special counsel rule is only a rule of the Justice Department, it isn't a law passed by Congress.  The Justice Department has to follow its own rules or it violates the Administrative Procedure Act.  But the rules don't bind anyone else.  It's kind of a weird, gray area, 

 

I don't find the reasoning of Hennen to be persuasive, as the issue before the Court was whether a district judge could remove the clerk of the court.  There's a whole shitpile of dicta in it that one might find somewhat persuasive, but it is dicta and in any event did not address removal of an "officer" appointed pursuant to administrative rule, because administrative rules didn't exist in 1839.  Most of the decision is dedicated to tearing apart the proposition that the power of appointment necessarily includes the power of dismissal.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

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35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I like the odds that he pisses in his own face/mouth better.  He's too stupid to be afraid.

He was a complete bitch in that presser talking about 'maybe I'll fire Mueller'.  Arms crossed and tiny fists balled up.  LOL 

Trust me, he's a soft, bitch made pussy.  Again, he likes to play up firing everyone on camera but doesn't have the balls to ever do it in person.  A real asshole,  a genuinely tough SOB, would relish the opportunity to fire these clowns and take on that task mano a mano.  Not this orange shitstain.  All he does is whine and hide.  President Bone Spurs is a bitch through and through.  Much like many of his supporters who are keyboard warriors but too scared to speak up in any public setting supporting their fucktard messiah.  Maybe they're smarter than he is.  Some saying about keeping your mouth shut and being questioned a fool vs opening your mouth and removing all doubt.  Granddaddy Trump didn't teach him that one.  Or the one about wrapping your junk when plowing a pornstar.  Or in his case, being plowed by the pornstar.   Fuck his scared ass.  You know who else is a bitch?  Karma.  If anyone can defeat this pussy, it is, in fact, karma. 

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Tuco

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I’m way late to the discussion (vacation, different hemisphere), but I think it’s possible that folks are overthinking the Mueller referral. Maybe he knew something about the Daniels payment from his investigation, figured it was a crime outside of his charter, and informed Rosenstein and the SDNY of the evidence of the crime. It may be no more complicated than that.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28791

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1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I’m way late to the discussion (vacation, different hemisphere), but I think it’s possible that folks are overthinking the Mueller referral. Maybe he knew something about the Daniels payment from his investigation, figured it was a crime outside of his charter, and informed Rosenstein and the SDNY of the evidence of the crime. It may be no more complicated than that.

Or it might be. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14926

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Some people are still defending Trump. You couldn't pay me to do that shit.
I stand by my Shaggy post from 1/29/2017:
The next 4 years are going to be far more exhausting for Trump apologists than opponents. His supporters are the ones that will be straining reason and credulity in order to defend the baffling delusions and whims of the most capricious president in recent memory. And when his presidency ends in some ignominious fashion with a consensus that this country made a grave mistake, you will do the same you did with Bush when his last term ended: quietly pretend that your unyielding and vocal support for him never existed and/or blame liberals.
 


There’s a difference between defending Trump and not wanting our constitutional institutions trashed in the pursuit. I’m no Trump fan and would be happy to see him go, but I’m also wary of the any-means-possible attitude that some have when it comes to getting rid of him.

If Mueller found something significant and sent the NY Fed court in to get it, then good. But if this is just a tactic to shake down a lower level guy to get him to flip on an upper level guy then that is some bullshit.

I appreciate those like GoLL who are providing good insight on this.
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Buzzrock

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Yeah, I'm not so sure what this sudden "oh he's probably just ignorant and impulsive" white-washing stance is about.  I think it's highly likely he's in it neck deep with multiple Russian banks and they know they have him by the balls.  Does that mean he's trying to sell the US down the river?  No.  Does that mean he'll act in his own best interests regarding eased sanctions, etc.?  Hell yes it does.


Occam’s Razor?
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Buzzrock

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I do think that those of us who spend a lot of time in here tend to forget just how uninformed the general public is about politics.  Most of the storylines coming out of the administration, while simple to those of us that keep up with this every day, are just too complicated and/or uninteresting for a lot of folks out there.  I'd be willing to bet that less than 30% of average Americans could even name the guy in charge of investigating Trump.
But "he fired the guy investigating him"?  That's a data point simple enough to stick.
 


It would help if the investigation would actually produce something. The longer it goes on with nothing really happening the less people care. There’s a saying in sales, “Time kills deals.” The longer nothing happens then the more people think there’s nothing there and that nothing will happen.

Not everyone has the time or inclination to study this stuff on a daily basis.

That’s why I think that if a) the economy is still humming and b) the investigation is still dragging on, Trump will get elected for a second term.
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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

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8 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I’m pretty sure you guys know what I mean.

Sure. But all indications are that Mueller is going to do this by the book and have everything tied up in a nice little bow. And we need that. From no leaks to the FBI conducting raids in a "very professional manner", they have no room for mistakes or else the political fall out could "taint" the results. That all takes time. But also keep in mind that this investigation is moving very quickly for something of it's scope, size, and complexity. We're talking about an investigation that includes a sitting president, foreign government(s), possibly mafia, money laundering, cyber crimes, etc etc. It's a giant tangled web that Mueller needs to lay out nicely for easy consumption so that when things do drop, a majority of the population buys it. 

It's frustrating, but I'd rather they measure twice before they do their cuts. 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

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48 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

But if this is just a tactic to shake down a lower level guy to get him to flip on an upper level guy then that is some bullshit.

Mueller has done a lot of work on mafia cases.  TV tells me that a lot of mafia cases play out by getting lower-level guys to flip on upper-level guys.

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atomheartbevo

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44 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

It would help if the investigation would actually produce something. The longer it goes on with nothing really happening the less people care. There’s a saying in sales, “Time kills deals.” The longer nothing happens then the more people think there’s nothing there and that nothing will happen.

.....

That’s why I think that if a) the economy is still humming and b) the investigation is still dragging on, Trump will get elected for a second term.

 

How many more of Trump's associates need to go down, past those who already have, to make it feel like things are being produced?  Watergate took, what two years to play out?  We are only 11 months into this, and this is far more complicated than Watergate (dealing with foreigners, electronic records, etc.), and we've had members of Congress actively fucking around and trying to help Trump/cover for Trump, and/or providing Trump inside information about investigations.

As for Trump getting elected, there's been a bunch of areas that were pro-Trump by double-digits in 2016. that flipped to the Dems in the past year.  Not going to be easy for him at all, especially if he loses the House this fall.

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