The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Fozzz 152]

27 minutes ago, kevwun said:

You think it's fine for the Russian government to be funneling money through the NRA to Republican politicians?  Eventually it's going to come out that this was also to be in exchange for lifting sanctions.  Just wait.

In my perfect world neither of the latter two organizations you mention would exist.  I wouldn't be surprised if Trump was bribed in some way or another to lift sanctions, but I kinda doubt the Russian government would use some dumbshit like Butina for handling such a delicate matter.  The statement of facts in her plea agreement state that "all available evidence" indicates that she came to the US in 2016 to try to get into grad school.  She was a nobody.

[Bat Guano 363]

It's instructive that the FEC hasn't been involved in any of this shit, at least that I've seen. I'm not surprised; it's an intentionally toothless body, but still - the Cohen payoff stuff is right up their bailiwick, and it seems like they should at least pretend to be concerned about it. You know, a bit of hand-wringing on the cables or something.

[Ted Lange 16,433]

She was in contact with FSB, the DOJ cited it when Butina asked to be released until the trial.  

[hayden_horn 11,402]

[Goredho 17,663]

18 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The idiocy itt has spread to #shitlibtwitter.

 

Note how the second screenshot does nothing to counter the comments made by Aaron in the first screenshot.  The only thing Aaron is wrong about is that it technically wasn't a FARA charge, although what she was charged with criminalizes similar conduct.

Butina admits to being a foreign operative attempting to cultivate relationships and broker influence between the FSB (KGB) and American politicians through the NRA and Evangelical groups.  While that certainly does not prove any influence occurred, every American should want to know the answer to whether A) any American citizens aided her in her quest and B) whether or not she had any success in reaching and influencing elected officials.  If you don't wan't to know to know those answers and feel that this is just a nothingburger deserving of no more scrutiny, then I have to question what other interest you have that takes precedence over the interests of US national security and sovereignty.

[Fozzz 152]

17 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

She was in contact with FSB, the DOJ cited it when Butina asked to be released until the trial.  

The DOJ has walked back a number of their previous allegations.  Can you cite the part of the statement of facts in her plea agreement that mentions a connection between her and the FSB?  She was apparently such a heavy hitter that when she proposed establishing a dialogue with Trump's advisers Torshin shot her down and told her the Russian Foreign Ministry would not go for it.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by Fozzz

[Yuk 1,625]

Just now, Goredho said:

Butina admits to being a foreign operative attempting to cultivate relationships and broker influence between the FSB (KGB) and American politicians through the NRA and Evangelical groups.  While that certainly does not prove any influence occurred, every American should want to know the answer to whether A) any American citizens aided her in her quest and B) whether or not she had any success in reaching and influencing elected officials.  If you don't wan't to know to know those answers and feel that this is just a nothingburger deserving of no more scrutiny, then I have to question what other interest you have that takes precedence over the interests of US national security and sovereignty.

Chapman was the spy caught honeypotting Obama cabinet official.  The FSB is not looking for lobbying.  They look for relationships (financial or other) and get kompromat.  Then they exert pressure on the target to act in ways that benefit them.

[Fozzz 152]

lol I think Malcolm is referring to the "Young Guard" which has nearly 200,000 members.  What exactly does that prove?

[DDD Dad 14,661]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol I think Malcolm is referring to the "Young Guard" which has nearly 200,000 members.  What exactly does that prove?

That the Russians are seeking to infiltrate and influence our political system (and everyone else's)?  It takes a lot of people to accomplish that.

[Yuk 1,625]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

lol I think Malcolm is referring to the "Young Guard" which has nearly 200,000 members.  What exactly does that prove?

It doesn't prove anything.  It's just interesting.

Quote from Rolling Stone:

Butina, 30, was raised in Siberia, where she grew up competing in shooting competitions. She studied political science and rose to national prominence in 2011 for her participation in the Youth Primaries of the Young Guard of United Russia, a political contest sponsored by Vladimir Putin’s political party. Butina soon moved to Moscow, where she founded a gun-rights organization, Right to Bear Arms, under the tutelage of Torshin, then a top senator in the Russian government.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/maria-butina-pleads-guilty-russia-768777/

 

Late December 2010 suspected spy Anna Chapman was appointed to the public council of the organization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Guard_of_United_Russia

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

12 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol I think Malcolm is referring to the "Young Guard" which has nearly 200,000 members.  What exactly does that prove?

What would it take for you to even consider the rational possibility? 

The strain it takes for you to bend logic in the face of overwhelming and undeniable evidence is actually pretty remarkable. 

To me, it just seems Trump has become white peoples OJ. His guilt isn’t the point, it’s that all of them are angry.

[Pig Bellmont 8,887]

48 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The DOJ has walked back a number of their previous allegations.

Do you understand how plea agreements work?

[Ghost of LL 15,705]

28 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

To me, it just seems Trump has become white peoples OJ. His guilt isn’t the point, it’s that all of them are angry.

Huh.  That's a real interesting analogy.

[Biff Tannen 46,192]

I feel like Fozz didn't actually read anything that came out about this.

[Chooky 13,341]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I feel like Fozz didn't actually read anything that came out about this.

Ask him his feelings on the Iraq War.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,561]

56 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

What would it take for you to even consider the rational possibility? 

The strain it takes for you to bend logic in the face of overwhelming and undeniable evidence is actually pretty remarkable. 

To me, it just seems Trump has become white peoples OJ. His guilt isn’t the point, it’s that all of them are angry.

Solid analogy but OJ's release, truly, only effected a few families.  The angry whites are punishing a couple of hundred million.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by DigglerontheHoof

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,171]

1 hour ago, Doc Reeves said:

 

To me, it just seems Trump has become white peoples OJ. His guilt isn’t the point, it’s that all of them are angry.

My goodness I hadn't made the connection, but I like that a lot.  I'm gonna steal it.

[happyfunball 481]

15 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Solid analogy but OJ's release, truly, only effected a few families.  The angry whites are punishing a couple of hundred million.  

if the check doesn't clear, you must acquit...no no that won't work

if the toad hat doesn't match...no, not that either

if the showers aren't golden...ah, i give up

[hayden_horn 11,402]

28 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I feel like Fozz didn't actually read anything that came out about this.

seriously. he's grasping at straws here and making the merest of distinctions. she was a fucking russian agent, whether or not she received a paycheck signed by the head of the FSB.

[Fozzz 152]

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

[Dahobbs 18,349]

Just now, Fozzz said:

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

Lobbying for who and what? To what end? Jesus you are stupid. 

[hayden_horn 11,402]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

my eyes cannot roll further back into my head than they did when i read this.

this isn't about lobbying for gun advocacy. that was the cover. 

 

[Brian Fantana 6,875]

6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

Good god the logic knot you are tying is amazing

[hobbes2702 13,498]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

Why are you trying so hard to sound so stupid?

[jimmyjazz 47,263]

I don't think he's trying.

[VRHorn 732]

With these new performance artists/angry Libertarians, it's difficult to separate the performance from crippling stupidity.

[Fozzz 152]

18 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Lobbying for who and what? To what end? Jesus you are stupid. 

She was working with the Deputy Governor of the Russian Central Bank (who had contacts with the Russian Foreign Ministry).  She thought she could be useful as a back-channel intermediary between Russian government officials and influential Americans for the purpose of influencing American foreign policy towards Russia.  Her idea for setting up a "dialogue" with Trump's advisers was rejected by the Russian she was working with.  I'm sure this stuff is pretty common with many countries, but unfortunately for Butina she was caught up in the Russia insanity so they threw the book at her.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Fozzz

[bad_teammate 13,566]

Big Gulps huh? Cool.

Anyway, gotta go.

[BrickHorn 18,447]

14 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

my eyes cannot roll further back into my head than they did when i read this.

this isn't about lobbying for gun advocacy. that was the cover. 

 

If it was all just a cover story, then how do you explain Butina’s whirlwind romance with a GOP operative?  

[Ted Lange 16,433]

Russia insanity is the new random people 

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

21 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I'd say the difference between espionage and unregistered lobbying is fairly material.

Holy shit.

[hayden_horn 11,402]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

If it was all just a cover story, then how do you explain Butina’s whirlwind romance with a GOP operative?  

the gun advocacy was a cover.

the whirlwind romance was a means to an end. opened a lot of influential doors for her.

i mean, maybe she loved the guy. but i doubt it. 

she was here as a russian agent.

[BrickHorn 18,447]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the gun advocacy was a cover.

the whirlwind romance was a means to an end. opened a lot of influential doors for her.

i mean, maybe she loved the guy. but i doubt it. 

she was here as a russian agent.

Check your meter.

[hayden_horn 11,402]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

Check your meter.

it's been a long day. figured i was being characteristically unclear

[Fozzz 152]

The thing to keep in mind is that had she notified the AG beforehand then nothing she did would have been criminal.  In other words, the source of her criminality was failing to fill out and submit the proper paperwork.  

[NWBuck 8,630]

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

Butina admits to being a foreign operative attempting to cultivate relationships and broker influence between the FSB (KGB) and American politicians through the NRA and Evangelical groups.  

I've been working all day- can you point me to the connections between her and Evangelical groups?

(totally not "just asking questions"... I missed this part of the story)

[David Dennison 19,567]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

The thing to keep in mind is that had she notified the AG beforehand then nothing she did would have been criminal.  In other words, the source of her criminality was failing to fill out and submit the proper paperwork.  

You're assuming they would have approved her paperwork.

[hayden_horn 11,402]

she wasn't lobbying for gun advocacy. she was trying, with the aid of the campaign, to establish back channels to the fucking russian government.

jesus herbert walker christ

[Pig Bellmont 8,887]

confirming what most people saw coming... turns out millions in dark money paid to the inauguration (that went unaccounted for) is under criminal investigation 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,561]

WITCH HUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[NWBuck 8,630]

8 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

I've been working all day- can you point me to the connections between her and Evangelical groups?

(totally not "just asking questions"... I missed this part of the story)

Nevermind- Found it: https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/07/mariia-butinas-cozy-relationship-with-the-christian-right-makes-total-sense.html

Delete post, ban user, etc.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Just now, Pig Bellmont said:

confirming what most people saw coming... turns out millions in dark money paid to the inauguration (that went unaccounted for) is under criminal investigation 

There’s no way this is tied to Russian oligarchs and/or sanctions relief with a subsequent massive cover up.

Every day from here on out will be worse for Trump, and therefore the world. 

[TornACL 7,794]

20 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

She was working with the Deputy Governor of the Russian Central Bank (who had contacts with the Russian Foreign Ministry).  She thought she could be useful as a back-channel intermediary between Russian government officials and influential Americans for the purpose of influencing American foreign policy towards Russia.  Her idea for setting up a "dialogue" with Trump's advisers was rejected by the Russian she was working with.  I'm sure this stuff is pretty common with many countries, but unfortunately for Butina she was caught up in the Russia insanity so they threw the book at her.

 

We GET it, dude, you want to fuck her. 

She doesn't read Surly. 

[Goredho 17,663]

1 hour ago, Doc Reeves said:

To me, it just seems Trump has become white peoples OJ. His guilt isn’t the point, it’s that all of them are angry.

Unfortunately any pair of gloves will fit those tiny little T-Rex hands.

I don’t see a connection between Butina and Trump with the information we have.  I think it is incontrovertible is that Russia launched a multi-pronged attack probing the GOP/conservative cast of characters including Trump and that some of them could have fallen under the influence of Russia.  But we don’t know definitively that any have.

That said, the collective behavior of the GOP really makes me wonder if Trump is the least of their Russian problems.  I mean, if there is nothing there, why interfere with and attempt to continually discredit the investigation of Russian influence in our elections/government at great political peril?  Just wait it out.  If there is something there and  it’s just a Trump/Russia problem, why would you keep protecting him even now as he’s becoming a detriment to your party?  Throw him to the wolves and move on with President Pence to have the best chance to retain your power.   So if there is nothing there or it’s just a Trump issue, I don’t see how their self interests, party interests or our national interests are being served by their actions.  How do you make sense of that?

It is certainly not at all proven, but this is starting to feel like a large swath of the GOP has inappropriate, politically damaging connections to Russia.  That we are witnessing the political equivalent of Penn State’s Jerry Sandusky scandal unfold — complete with all the willful denial from the faithful.  Only in that scenario does everything we can see from our vantage point make any sense.

 

[LongestHorn 772]

5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

confirming what most people saw coming... turns out millions in dark money paid to the inauguration (that went unaccounted for) is under criminal investigation 

Ouch.  Between this and the news that Trump was in the Pecker/Cohen meeting in Aug 2015, is becoming difficult to consume the sheer volume of legal problems for this POTUS.

 

[shnsajax 3,607]

4 minutes ago, TornACL said:

We GET it, dude, you want to fuck her. 

She doesn't read Surly. 

She's pretty below average without the makeup.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I don’t see a connection between Butina and Trump with the information we have.

They’re both unregistered agents of influence (NOT SPIES). 

Butina is Trump

Trump is Butina 

However, they didn’t really work together and they had very different motivations.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[atomheartbevo 90,665]

 

[atomheartbevo 90,665]

 

[Fozzz 152]

22 minutes ago, TornACL said:

We GET it, dude, you want to fuck her. 

She doesn't read Surly. 

imo, she's not very attractive.  a little too masculine in the face.