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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4160

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I beg to differ. I know I took a couple day ban for that one but it's the truth. When the people who are most corrupt are the ones tasked with creating/enforcing the rule of law then bloody revolution is the only way to effect positive change. I didn't want to believe we were there yet but it's become blatantly evident the USA is past that line. We got there once in the 1800s and had a civil war and we're there again now. 

Advocating bloody revolution on a message board in general, and before Mueller has fully made his case in particular, is reckless and foolish. 

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Trump will no doubt go down as a bottom 3 US President of all time. Only reason he's not lower is he hasn't started WW3. 

Is he the most destructive to America? No, that was unquestionably GW Bush. 

Is he the most stupidly corrupt and incompetent? Yes. 

 

You wonder why America has gone from turning over to the year 2000 with a sub $5 trillion national debt to 18 years later being about to eclipse $20 trillion? The most destructive president of all time and the most incompetent president of all time in the span of 18 years. 

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Advocating bloody revolution on a message board in general, and before Mueller has fully made his case in particular, is reckless and foolish

It doesn't matter what the Mueller findings are because the underlying problem of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt people in the country are the ones tasked with creating the laws. The only way to fix the problem is for the people who create the laws to change them which cannot happen when they would be changing the laws to prosecute themselves. 

The ship is broken, the gulf is widening,  and the entirely of human history shows this situation does not get fixed. It's over. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46200

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

It doesn't matter what the Mueller findings are because the underlying problem of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt people in the country are the ones tasked with creating the laws. The only way to fix the problem is for the people who create the laws to change them which cannot happen when they would be changing the laws to prosecute themselves. 

The ship is broken, the gulf is widening,  and the entirely of human history shows this situation does not get fixed. It's over. 

I didn't really think Brisket was the type to have a sock.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47298

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

So the President's attorney now admits there was collusion before the election, despite the President saying there was none ever at all.  Got it.

 

 

I don't know if I'm more chagrined that our government has been infiltrated by traitors or that it has been infiltrated by idiots.  Both seem bad.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21809

Posted
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Giuliani was once considered an American hero by many after 9/11.  The Trump era has exposed him as a despicable, selfish, and amoral man. He's a great example of the fucking rot that has been eating away at our country for decades now.  The corruption in American "leadership" is staggering, and we need to vote out all of the old guard. 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90670

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Giuliani was once considered an American hero by many after 9/11.  The Trump era has exposed him as a despicable, selfish, and amoral man. He's a great example of the fucking rot that has been eating away at our country for decades now.  The corruption in American "leadership" is staggering, and we need to vote out all of the old guard. 

 

Trans-Texas Corridor.   Rudy was working for both sides.  

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

Posted
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29 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Giuliani was once considered an American hero by many after 9/11.  The Trump era has exposed him as a despicable, selfish, and amoral man. He's a great example of the fucking rot that has been eating away at our country for decades now.  The corruption in American "leadership" is staggering, and we need to vote out all of the old guard. 

 

Look up and read about "lesterland"

That's our country and it's why I say the only solution is to take back and force sweeping congressional reform through any means necessary. 

Democrats are proposing introducing a new HR1 congressional reform bill that would take a lot of money incentive out of corrupt lobbying and political fundraising but there's zero doubt in my mind that the fat cat "Lester's" and lobbyists will kill it ASAP with major bribe money. 

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 10186

Posted
Posted
On 12/15/2018 at 11:26 AM, Chooky said:

What does the constitution mention about Mike Pence having to not think about penises while under oath?  Has a precedent ever been set about the basic right to not have to think about penises?

We hold these penises to be self evident.  That all penises are entitled to life, liberty and the persuit of penises....

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TornACL

TornACL 7794

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's possible that Rudy became a shit-slinging, low intellect amoral weasel in his later years.  It's also possible that he has always been a shit-slinging, low intellect amoral weasel.  I know where I'd put my money.

You mean a guy who announces his divorce via a press conference without notifying his wife first ISN'T a stand up guy? 

Well, I never... 

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NBMisha

NBMisha 224

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Giuliani was once considered an American hero by many after 9/11.  The Trump era has exposed him as a despicable, selfish, and amoral man. He's a great example of the fucking rot that has been eating away at our country for decades now.  The corruption in American "leadership" is staggering, and we need to vote out all of the old guard. 

 

There's this, there is the rise of inequality, the rise of the multiplicity of identity politics including for whites, and the ever present fact of half the population having low intelligence..., it's hard to imagine why we were not this fucked well before this point in time.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3874

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, NBMisha said:

There's this, there is the rise of inequality, the rise of the multiplicity of identity politics including for whites, and the ever present fact of half the population having low intelligence..., it's hard to imagine why we were not this fucked well before this point in time.

 I think patriotism and idealism has a lot to do with it. I don’t think we’ve had until now leaders that at an individual level couldn’t be shamed into thinking of things bigger than them or awed by the office. So even if the electorate wanted to put an asshole in charge, the gentleman‘s club of people that were capable of being elected all had an understanding of the importance  of the greater good.  

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18166

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

I beg to differ. I know I took a couple day ban for that one but it's the truth. When the people who are most corrupt are the ones tasked with creating/enforcing the rule of law then bloody revolution is the only way to effect positive change. I didn't want to believe we were there yet but it's become blatantly evident the USA is past that line. We got there once in the 1800s and had a civil war and we're there again now. 

Then volunteer yourself as first in line.  While I understand and empathize with your cynicism, forgive me if I can't get on board with a "solution" that involves the death of thousands, or even a few individuals.  I think we can do better.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32609

Posted
Posted

It's kind of amazing how Alan Dershowitz has just become a full on apologist for the Trump administration at this point.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/alan-dershowitz-michael-flynn-innocent-lying-fbi-not-crime/

Quote

Law professor Alan Dershowitz on Monday argued that former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn should never have pleaded guilty in special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation because “lying to the FBI is not a crime.”

During an interview on Fox News, Dershowitz asserted that Flynn’s lie about speaking to the Russian ambassador regarding removing sanctions was not “material” to the Russia investigation.

Quote

“I hope the judge understands when he has the case tomorrow that Flynn did not commit a crime by lying,” Dershowitz told Fox News host Bill Hemmer. “Because the lie has to be material to the investigation. And if the FBI already knew the answer to the question and only asked him the question in order to give him an opportunity to lie, his answer — even if false — was not material to the investigation.”

“Lying to the FBI is not a crime!” the law professor added.

 

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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4160

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 I think patriotism and idealism has a lot to do with it. I don’t think we’ve had until now leaders that at an individual level couldn’t be shamed into thinking of things bigger than them or awed by the office. So even if the electorate wanted to put an asshole in charge, the gentleman‘s club of people that were capable of being elected all had an understanding of the importance  of the greater good.  

We've had Fox and Republicans conflating patriotism with nationalism and partisanship for decades now.  It's no wonder that they've forgotten what patriotism even means anymore.

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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9885

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Giuliani was once considered an American hero by many after 9/11.  The Trump era has exposed him as a despicable, selfish, and amoral man. He's a great example of the fucking rot that has been eating away at our country for decades now.  The corruption in American "leadership" is staggering, and we need to vote out all of the old guard. 

 

We've been trying and it isn't working. This party has insulated itself in corruption to the point where it's gonna take more than just voting to show them that we aren't fucking around.

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3874

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Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

The hell it isn't.

Popehat or someone like that had a good thread on materiality the other day.  He claimed the law was that the test for materiality was objective and not subjective.  If the lie was the type that could be important to an investigation, you are guilty.  You don’t get off just because you happen to be lucky enough to lie about something they already know.  That keeps the crime confined to what the actor did.  

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Goredho

Goredho 17663

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 I think patriotism and idealism has a lot to do with it. I don’t think we’ve had until now leaders that at an individual level couldn’t be shamed into thinking of things bigger than them or awed by the office. So even if the electorate wanted to put an asshole in charge, the gentleman‘s club of people that were capable of being elected all had an understanding of the importance  of the greater good.  

I agree with this.  I think our functioning American democracy has been exposed as a somewhat delicate balance where equilibrium has been maintained by opposing conservative & liberal forces whose power ebbs and flows and where each side has traditionally been tempered by some sense of responsible stewardship of the nation.  Where that collective sense of responsibility was present in both parties and managed to mostly outweigh the lust for wealth or power that any individuals might have.

The radically conservative forces controlling the GOP now, though, are different.  They care only about the interests of wealthy, white Christian males born on American soil.  They have been building towards the present for decades, have had absolute federal power for two years now, sold their soul to get it and have thrown any sense of responsibility to a greater good into the shitter in their attempt to line their pockets, entrench their power and secure some sort of ultimate victory against liberalism.

Trump is an amoral, criminal asshole who has no right being President, but he’s just the logical conclusion to the conservative rush (pun intended) towards evangelical, nationalistic, authoritarian and plutocratic dittodome over the past 30 years.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18166

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Under the current system and leadership the deaths of millions are occuring, the financial rape of the AmericAn population is occuring, and you just advocated keeping that going because you don't want a few well targeted individuals (like Mitch McConnel) who are road blocking actual reform for their own greed to be eliminated. 

 

Trump is the sideshow grifter but the real problem is Congress. Once the message is sent that opposition to reform is a death sentence America will take back it's chance to survive long term. Our current path is not financially solvent and will cause our downfall. 

Yes, I advocate not murdering people I disagree with politically.  Moreover, what you advocate,  murdering people who you disagree with will somehow result in a better version of a system based upon peaceful exchange of power, is insane.   I'm fine with going on record with that.  

The justice system is grinding away at the malefactors.  Let it do its' work.  

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 107009

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mdhorn said:

He also stated collusion wasn't a crime. He was wrong, many times. 

What's most amazing and pathetic isn't Dershowitz's complete commitment to being a Trump apologist.  It's that he's willing to be utterly wrong on the law in order to complete his fellating.  For example, his statement on Flynn and materiality is facially foolish.  The FBI doesn't "know" anything -- it's not the ultimate finder of fact, a court/jury is.  The FBI can have multiple reasons to believe fact X is true, but they will STILL ask a key witness about fact X, because they want further verification/validation of the evidence they have gathered.  Shit, I'm not FBI, and I use that technique all the damned time (as would any trial lawyer worth his salt).  I have two other witnesses who support fact X, and I have a document that supports fact X.  But I damned well ask a key witness aligned with the other side about fact X.  Because 1) if he verifies it, he's credible, because he's visibly aligned with the side that would argue against that fact, and 2) at worst, he tells a stupid lie and I destroy his credibility with it.

The way that some folks have utterly sacrificed their reputation, credibility, and future, to latch on to Trump's cock is amazing to me.  I get it when we're talking about losers like Stephen Miller -- he'd never be in ANY position of real power without a fool like Trump to put him there.  But folks like Dershowitz actually had a reputation beforehand.  Now....they don't.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47298

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Popehat or someone like that had a good thread on materiality the other day.  He claimed the law was that the test for materiality was objective and not subjective.  If the lie was the type that could be important to an investigation, you are guilty.  You don’t get off just because you happen to be lucky enough to lie about something they already know.  That keeps the crime confined to what the actor did.  

It's pretty easy to find good discussions about 1001 on the Justice Department website.  The most obvious waiver for lying to a Federal investigator is when someone who is guilty (and knows it) claims they are not guilty.  That's not gonna get you prosecuted.  Lying about other things, particularly those related to the line of questioning?  That's illegal all day long (and Dershowitz knows it).

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The way that some folks have utterly sacrificed their reputation, credibility, and future, to latch on to Trump's cock is amazing to me. 

Which is why I think many in Congress are either utterly corrupt or irretrievably compromised.

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staboner

staboner 5098

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

It doesn't matter what the Mueller findings are because the underlying problem of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt people in the country are the ones tasked with creating the laws. The only way to fix the problem is for the people who create the laws to change them which cannot happen when they would be changing the laws to prosecute themselves. 

The ship is broken, the gulf is widening,  and the entirely of human history shows this situation does not get fixed. It's over. 

generally agree. <semi-brisket>

the people with the smallest spines and shittiest character run our government.

all governments/companies/orgs have cracks. over time corruption fills the cracks until its only in the cracks where "work" happens. then the people elected are the only people that can operate in a mire of complete corruption and corrupted processes, i.e. shitheads. and yes we are there, or almost. doesn't matter. its bleak, i get it. its semi-brisket, i get it. 

getting trump out is something, and i will cheer my ass off when it eventually happens, but i am not naive enough to think that stops whats coming.

happy monday motherfuckers. cedar up, nukes down, bitches. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, staboner said:

generally agree. <semi-brisket>

the people with the smallest spines and shittiest character run our government.

all governments/companies/orgs have cracks. over time corruption fills the cracks until its only in the cracks where "work" happens. then the people elected are the only people that can operate in a mire of complete corruption and corrupted processes, i.e. shitheads. and yes we are there, or almost. doesn't matter. its bleak, i get it. its semi-brisket, i get it. 

getting trump out is something, and i will cheer my ass off when it eventually happens, but i am not naive enough to think that stops whats coming.

happy monday motherfuckers. cedar up, nukes down, bitches. 

haha, dude you were brisket "we are in the shitter" waaaay before being brisket was cool

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