The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump is so pissed

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[deech 2390]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Or Trump confessed to it multiple times in tweets and public interviews.

But maybe Mueller won’t see that.

Here is what Mueller's report should say:

Obstruction of Justice - Exhibit A - See Trump Interview with Lester Holt.

The end.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

If that's what happened, the pee tape is real. Or at least the pee event. 

[yaqdum 182]

25 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This needs to be awful.

It needs to be painful.

It needs to last so it will be remembered.

It needs to be remembered so it never happens again.

hal, lee, lou, and yuh, brother.  pree chit.

[Buzzrock 15136]

There will be a reckoning for the Rs when the Ds get back in charge of things.

Yup. Team above all.

[yaqdum 182]

23 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

And they'll be completely ignored by the younger generation because they are not willing to put up with the same tired bullshit.

my hope -- and actually my expectation -- is that the next couple of generations will grow out from under that bullshit.  not all children of these people take the medicine.  i didn't.  with the right encouragement and knowing what the problem is now, my belief is the next generations will have their problems like all generations do but they'll start to retire this lunacy.

[Buzzrock 15136]

Agreed.  There are a significant number of pro-life Trumpers who ONLY align because of that single issue.  Many of them would otherwise align on immigration or even guns with centrists or even the left.  They willingly admit that they are single-issue voters who have to hold their nose while they case their vote.  It matters that much to them.  

I also think there are a bunch who rationalize their support for Trump because he’s not Hillary. Yes, still. And they will happily support whoever is next once Trump is gone. The boomers in my family are those folks.

[Buzzrock 15136]

If anyone is curious about what the Antichrist actually looks like....he looks exactly like Robert Jeffress.

I always picture him as Jeff Sessions

[Brisketexan 106893]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I also think there are a bunch who rationalize their support for Trump because he’s not Hillary. Yes, still. And they will happily support whoever is next once Trump is gone. The boomers in my family are those folks.

 

That's where we find out that they are all lying sacks of shit.  Because in 2020, there won't be a Hillary on the ballot (please, for the fucking love of God).  They won't have the "it's a vote against evil Hillary" excuse to vote for Trump.  But wanna bet as to whether they find a NEW excuse?  Yeah....they will.  Everyone knows they will.  Because they SAY it was about Hillary (because that seems socially acceptable).  But it wasn't.  It was about Trump.  They love him.  Because mexicans, mooslems, and walls.  And they'll vote for him again.  Not against Hillary.  FOR Trump.

[Buzzrock 15136]

This needs to be awful.
It needs to be painful.
It needs to last so it will be remembered.
It needs to be remembered so it never happens again.

I find this sentiment fascinating. Wouldn’t it be better if it turned out that there is nothing to it and that Trump was just elected as the result of a disgruntled flyover populace and a terrible opponent?

Understand that I’m not stating that I think there is nothing to it. There’s too much smoke and I think Mueller will find something, and punishment should be appropriate, from fines up to impeachment.

But actively hoping that it’s the worst case scenario is weird.

[Buzzrock 15136]

And they'll be completely ignored by the younger generation because they are not willing to put up with the same tired bullshit.

The problem with the younger generation is that they don’t stay young. Paul Ryan was young once too. Hell he still is. And he’s a sack of shit. And will absolutely run for president someday.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I find this sentiment fascinating. Wouldn’t it be better if it turned out that there is nothing to it and that Trump was just elected as the result of a disgruntled flyover populace and a terrible opponent?

Understand that I’m not stating that I think there is nothing to it. There’s too much smoke and I think Mueller will find something, and punishment should be appropriate, from fines up to impeachment.

But actively hoping that it’s the worst case scenario is weird.

 

[shnsajax 3607]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

If anyone is curious about what the Antichrist actually looks like....he looks exactly like Robert Jeffress.

Of course it looks like Trump is reading a book of himself on his desk.

[Brisketexan 106893]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

 

I find this sentiment fascinating. Wouldn’t it be better if it turned out that there is nothing to it and that Trump was just elected as the result of a disgruntled flyover populace and a terrible opponent?

Understand that I’m not stating that I think there is nothing to it. There’s too much smoke and I think Mueller will find something, and punishment should be appropriate, from fines up to impeachment.

But actively hoping that it’s the worst case scenario is weird.

 

That's a fair sentiment.  But your second para tells us why it's pointless.

Look, when I take a road trip, what I hope for is an uneventful trip with a late arrival and not a scratch on me.  That's what we all hope for.

But now, we're in the following position: because I was looking down at my phone to text someone, my car has careened off the road.  In order to learn my lesson, we should hope that I can't just gently correct, get back on the road, and cruise along as if nothing every happened.  But we should also hope that I don't die, because then there's no good outcome.  Instead, let's hope that I really fuck my car up and scare the shit out of myself, so I never, ever, ever text while driving again.

We've been intent on driving off the road at full speed for a while now.  If we suffer no consequences, we'll just keep doing it...until the consequences are fatal.  Let's fuck up the car pretty goddamned bad and bust our lip on the airbag.  Let's suffer enough so we say "okay...not gonna do THAT stupid shit again."

[ndawg 1242]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I find this sentiment fascinating. Wouldn’t it be better if it turned out that there is nothing to it and that Trump was just elected as the result of a disgruntled flyover populace and a terrible opponent?

Understand that I’m not stating that I think there is nothing to it. There’s too much smoke and I think Mueller will find something, and punishment should be appropriate, from fines up to impeachment.

But actively hoping that it’s the worst case scenario is weird.

Well, assume for a second that Trump is the criminal we all know he is, and his election required a large portion of the population to vote for Trump in spite of very troubling authoritarian tendencies because they placed their trust in fake news. Given that assumption, we're already way past the point where our democracy can continue to thrive without some intervention. Trump's downfall might be that intervention, which is what I think Hugo is hinting at.

Call me cynical, but these days I'm sympathetic with Brisket's take. There's no fixing this stupid.

Edited April 12, 2018 by ndawg

[yaqdum 182]

3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Paul Ryan was young once too. Hell he still is. And he’s a sack of shit.

 

paul ryan was a sack of shit when he was a zygote.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

President Trump’s personal attorney Michael D. Cohen sometimes taped conversations with associates, according to three people familiar with his practice, and allies of the president are worried that the recordings were seized by federal investigators in a raid of Cohen’s office and residences this week.

Cohen, who served for a decade as a lawyer at the Trump Organization and is a close confidant of Trump, was known to store the conversations using digital files and then replay them for colleagues, according to people who have interacted with him.

“We heard he had some proclivity to make tapes,” said one Trump adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. “Now we are wondering, who did he tape? Did he store those someplace where they were actually seized? . . . Did they find his recordings?” 

Cohen did not respond to requests for comment. Stephen Ryan, an attorney for Cohen, declined to comment. A White House spokeswoman referred a request for comment to Cohen and his attorney.

On Monday, FBI agents seized Cohen’s computers and phones as they executed a search warrant that sought, among other records, all communications between the lawyer and Trump and campaign aides about “potential sources of negative publicity” in the lead-up to the 2016 election, The Washington Post reported.

Investigators were also looking for any records related to adult-film star Stormy Daniels and ex-Playboy model Karen McDougal, who both received payments after alleged affairs with Trump.

It is unknown whether Cohen taped conversations between himself and Trump. But two people familiar with Cohen’s practices said he recorded both business and political conversations. One associate said Trump knew of Cohen’s practice because the attorney would often play him recordings Cohen had made of his conversations with other top Trump advisers.

“It was his standard practice to do it,” this person said. 

Legal experts said Cohen’s taped conversations would be viewed by prosecutors as highly valuable.

“If you are looking for evidence, you can’t do any better than people talking on tape,” said Nick Akerman, a former Watergate prosecutor.

Such recordings “would be considered a gold mine,” said Stephen Gillers, a law professor at New York University who specializes in legal ethics.

“The significance is 9.5 to 10 on a 10-point scale,” he added, noting that investigators know “that when people speak on the phone, they are not guarded. They don’t imagine that the conversation will surface.” 

Federal investigators would not automatically get access to any tapes that might have been seized in the raids. First, the recordings would be reviewed by a separate Justice Department team and possibly by a federal judge. The review is designed to protect lawyer-client privilege and to be sure that the conversations turned over are within the terms of the search warrant, legal experts said.

They noted that the privilege accorded to attorney-client communications does not apply if the conversation was conducted to further commission of a crime or fraud.

Cohen wanted his business calls on tape so he could use them later as leverage, one person said. He frequently noted that under New York law, only one party had to consent to the taping of a conversation, this person added.

During the 2016 race, Cohen — who did not have a formal role on the campaign — had a reputation among campaign staff as someone to avoid, in part because he was believed to be secretly taping conversations. 

In one instance, Cohen played a recording of a conversation he had with someone else to a Trump campaign official to demonstrate that he was in a position to challenge that person’s veracity if necessary, an associate recalled.

Cohen indicated that he had something to use against the person he had taped, the associate said.

One outside Trump adviser said Cohen may have begun recording his conversations in an attempt to emulate his boss, who has long boasted — often with no evidence — about secretly taping private conversations. 

In May, for instance, a report appeared in the New York Times detailing fired FBI director James B. Comey’s account of a one-on-one dinner he had with the president, during which he said Trump asked him to pledge his loyalty to the president and he declined. Shortly after, Trump took to Twitter to cast doubt on Comey’s version of events, seeming to imply that he had secretly recorded their encounter.

“James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” Trump wrote.

At the time, it was unclear whether Trump truly possessed tapes of his conversation with Comey or was simply trying to intimidate him. And ultimately, just over a month later, Trump cleared up the mystery by admitting in a duo of tweets that he had not, in fact, recorded Comey.

“With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea whether there are ‘tapes’ or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings,” he wrote. 

Tim O’Brien, a Trump biographer and executive editor of Bloomberg View, wrote a column in the wake of Trump’s taping claim saying that Comey likely had little reason to worry. In the piece, O’Brien recounted that Trump frequently made a similar boast to him.

“Back in the early 2000s, Trump used to tell me all the time that he was recording me when I covered him as reporter for the New York Times,” O’Brien wrote. “He also said the same thing when I was writing a biography of him, ‘Trump Nation.’ I never thought he was, but who could be sure?”

[bolverk 30323]

20 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

There is no comparison. 

 

 

I represented Perot years ago in connection with the Reform Party. Without revealing any privileged communications I can state that having spent considerable time with him in person there is no comparison. 

 

Whether or not you agree with his policies, Perot genuinely injected himself into the political sphere because of a sense of patriotism.

To be clear, I wasn't intending to compare Trump to Perot as individuals or as candidates. I was speaking to one tranch, amongst many of the coalitions, that supported them.

[bolverk 30323]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Tim O’Brien, a Trump biographer and executive editor of Bloomberg View, wrote a column in the wake of Trump’s taping claim saying that Comey likely had little reason to worry. In the piece, O’Brien recounted that Trump frequently made a similar boast to him.

“Back in the early 2000s, Trump used to tell me all the time that he was recording me when I covered him as reporter for the New York Times,” O’Brien wrote. “He also said the same thing when I was writing a biography of him, ‘Trump Nation.’ I never thought he was, but who could be sure?”

1

What a fucking weirdo.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, bolverk said:

What a fucking weirdo.

But after Trump sued him for libel shortly after his biography came out, O’Brien’s lawyers deposed Trump in December 2007 — during which Trump admitted he had not, in fact, clandestinely taped O’Brien. 

“I’m not equipped to tape-record,” Trump said in the deposition. “I may have said it once or twice to him just to — on the telephone, because everything I said to him he’d write incorrectly; so just to try and keep it honest.”

[bolverk 30323]

15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

But after Trump sued him for libel shortly after his biography came out, O’Brien’s lawyers deposed Trump in December 2007 — during which Trump admitted he had not, in fact, clandestinely taped O’Brien. 

“I’m not equipped to tape-record,” Trump said in the deposition. “I may have said it once or twice to him just to — on the telephone, because everything I said to him he’d write incorrectly; so just to try and keep it honest.”

But I repeat myself, what a fucking weirdo.

[retread 2951]

Cheeto is full of shit from start to finish.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by retread

[Ghost of LL 15698]

Can you imagine what's on those goddamned tapes?  If he really did record conversations routinely, there's no limit to what they could find.

[Francisco 2.0 32589]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Can you imagine what's on those goddamned tapes?  If he really did record conversations routinely, there's no limit to what they could find.

I'm imagining the possibility of secretly taped conversations helping to lead to the removal of two President's in my lifetime. 

[Anastasis 23718]

President Trump wanted James Comey to investigate the infamous “pee tape” allegations — to reassure Melania that he hadn’t actually paid Russian hookers to urinate on a hotel bed, the former FBI chief claims in his upcoming book.

“He brought up what he called the ‘golden showers thing’ … adding that it bothered him if there was ‘even a one percent chance’ his wife, Melania, thought it was true,” Comey writes in “A Higher Loyalty: Truth, Lies, and Leadership,” a copy of which was obtained by The Post.

“He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”

The conversation took place during the same private dinner on Jan. 27, 2017, where Comey has claimed the president demanded “loyalty” — and just days after the publication of an intelligence dossier alleging that the Kremlin had a tape of Trump paying prostitutes to perform the dirty deed on a bed once occupied by President Obama.

Comey says he warned Trump an investigation might “create a narrative that we were investigating him personally,” the former top G-man writes.

The president replied that he “might be right” — but kept asking him to consider the idea, and said he would as well, according to Comey.

Comey said he privately wondered why Melania might think there was even a 1 percent chance the allegations were true, claiming there is “zero chance” his own wife would believe such a claim.

“In what kind of marriage, to what kind of man, does a spouse conclude there is only a 99 percent chance her husband didn’t do that?” he writes in the book, which hits shelves April 17.

 

This whole thing is going to be so fucking great. America motherfuckers!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Can you imagine what's on those goddamned tapes?  If he really did record conversations routinely, there's no limit to what they could find.

What I would give to be on the taint team.

[longhorndude 146]

What I would give to be on the taint team.

At least tree fiddy....

[Jhawkmvp 1514]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Trump fathered a kid supposedly.

Quote

President Donald Trump had a relationship with a former housekeeper and fathered a child with her, a former Trump World Tower doorman claimed in a statement released Thursday afternoon.

The doorman, Dino Sajudin, spoke out after reports published Thursday morning detailed his agreement with American Media Inc., the publisher of The National Enquirer that included a $30,000 payment for the exclusive rights to the story.

“Today I awoke to learn that a confidential agreement that I had with AMI (The National Inquirer) with regard to a story about President Trump was leaked to the press,” Sajudin statement’s to CNN read. "I can confirm that while working at Trump World Tower I was instructed not to criticize President Trump’s former housekeeper due to a prior relationship she had with President Trump which produced a child.”

 

[retread 2951]

29 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I'm imagining the possibility of secretly taped conversations helping to lead to the removal of two President's in my lifetime. 

Extramarital flings with an intern and a porn star have taken a pretty good run at that too.

[bolverk 30323]

I can't find it now, but I heard earlier today (NPR/BBC?) that all communications between Cohen and two AMI (National Enquirer) execs were being sought, regarding a pattern where Trump Co. would use the two as a pass-thru to pay for Trump-related stories with the intent of ensuring the National Enquirer would not publish them.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, yaqdum said:

my hope -- and actually my expectation -- is that the next couple of generations will grow out from under that bullshit.  not all children of these people take the medicine.  i didn't.  with the right encouragement and knowing what the problem is now, my belief is the next generations will have their problems like all generations do but they'll start to retire this lunacy.

They will as long as trump and the baby boomers don’t blow the world up first.

Has anyone noticed that the current trump-mueller duel is just another continuation of the war the baby boomers have been having with themselves since the 60s? 

In one corner you have president bone spurs who opted out of Vietnam because his pussy hurt and was a complete  piece of shit for the rest of his life, yet the boomers made him our president. 

In the other corner you have Vietnam voluntary vet mueller who when he rotated back got spit on and called baby killers by the trumps of the world (and there is no doubt that’s who did that, it wasn’t the older generation).

Kind of fascinating really. Hope the mueller team wins this final knockout round. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by JimmyJames

[TwiceHorn 32078]

9 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, citizens united is how we got trump

Well, except for the part where Hillary nearly twice as much money as Teh Donald and took 3x the outside contributions and Teh Donald self-funded nearly a third of his campaign.  https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16

 

Plus, Citizens United, while bad, only trashed a campaign finance limitation that was less than 10 years old.  More than a radical change to campaign finance law, it sort of unleashed the status quo and turbocharged it.

 

I'm all for trashing Citizens United, but it had almost nothing to do with the Dotard.

[TwiceHorn 32078]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

If anyone is curious about what the Antichrist actually looks like....he looks exactly like Robert Jeffress.

I am ashamed that he professes to be a Christian and an actual man of the cloth in a mainstream denomination.  While there are lots of jerkholes and dickwads that profess to be Christians (possibly including me), most of them are fringey.  That guy, as pastor of a very large and at least superficially mainstream church in a mainstream denomination, frightens me.

Edited April 13, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[yaqdum 182]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

man of the cloth

one of the most interesting things to look for in the fallout of this sorry mess is what happens to organized religion.

[Dutchrudder 11243]

 

So Trump actually is pro-life after all?

[bolverk 30323]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am ashamed that he professes to be a Christian and an actual man of the cloth in a mainstream denomination.  While there are lots of jerkholes and dickwads that profess to be Christians (possibly including me), most of them are fringey.  That guy, as pastor of a very large and at least superficially mainstream church in a mainstream denomination, frightens me.

He, and hypocrites like him, is the reason that I began to question my Southern Baptist upbringing. That, of course, led me to question the entire message of Christ, as well as my belief in God.

[ndawg 1242]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

He, and hypocrites like him, is the reason that I began to question my Southern Baptist upbringing. That, of course, led me to question the entire message of Christ, as well as my belief in God.

Don't worry, evangelicals will make sure to point out that this means that you are going to hell, instead of realizing that they shit the bed.

[WhatTheBuck 28929]

13 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

one of the most interesting things to look for in the fallout of this sorry mess is what happens to organized religion.

Nothing. That's what will happen. It's not like the religious will suddenly start to think critically about the blind faith they've clung to their whole lives. If 9/11 didn't do that, nothing will. 

[bolverk 30323]

6 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Don't worry, evangelicals will make sure to point out that this means that you are going to hell, instead of realizing that they shit the bed.

No worries. I've already been explicitly instructed by my mother that she thinks I will go to hell for no longer believing in God.

Edit: But, of course, I was also told at an early age by her Church of Christ mother that I was bound for hell due to having been raised in the Southern Baptist church, which allows the Devil's musical instruments.

Edited April 13, 2018 by bolverk

[DDD Dad 14648]

Southern Baptist denomination is merely a whitewashed and normalized KKK.

[WhatTheBuck 28929]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

No worries. I've already been explicitly instructed by my mother that she thinks I will go to hell for no longer believing in God.

Fortunately you won't have a functioning nervous system after you're dead so you won't be able to feel the heat. 

[bolverk 30323]

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Southern Baptist denomination is merely a whitewashed and normalized KKK.

The Church of Christ is similar but God forbid the use of musical instruments, which is a completely bizarre and random way of distinguishing one's denomination from another - at least to my mind. Nothing really matters much. My entire family thinks I'm hellbound, in spite of any good deeds I've ever done.

[Anastasis 23718]

The best thing for the interests of modern Christianity would be to bring back the lions. 

[yaqdum 182]

13 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nothing. That's what will happen. It's not like the religious will suddenly start to think critically about the blind faith they've clung to their whole lives. If 9/11 didn't do that, nothing will. 

i certainly agree with what you say, but my interest is in what the youth do.  we've served up two basic responses here from the religious-with-a-capital-r:  1) back the creeps in attacking the republic and 2) not get involved.  neither speaks well of the health of organized religion.  what message will the youth take from that?

[TwiceHorn 32078]

22 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Southern Baptist denomination is merely a whitewashed and normalized KKK.

I don't like to say it, but I tend to agree, and Bolverk is right, the Christers (Ivins) are right behind them and possibly ahead of them.

 

Also, both Southern Baptist and Church of Christ are highly congregational by nature, as are most of the "evangelical" churches.   Calling them a denomination is something of a misnomer, particularly in that the congregation essentially selects its own clergy.

 

Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and even Lutherans rarely elevate a jackwagon like Jeffress to pastorship of a major church.

Edited April 13, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[yaqdum 182]

never in my long life have i looked askance at protestant faith like i do now.

[In10se 175]

5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wonder when this long national nightmare will be over.

Hahaha the nightmare hasnt even started yet. This is the tip of the America shaped shit iceberg that's heading for the fan. 

[retread 2951]

Agree. DOTUS will never say "You got me" and go peacefully. He'll burn it down on his way out.

[WhatTheBuck 28929]

23 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

i certainly agree with what you say, but my interest is in what the youth do.  we've served up two basic responses here from the religious-with-a-capital-r:  1) back the creeps in attacking the republic and 2) not get involved.  neither speaks well of the health of organized religion.  what message will the youth take from that?

I'm encouraged by the fact that the percentage of Americans who consider themselves religious is on the decline. That's been a trend for a while; we still lag far behind Europe. But a lot of young people have already been indoctrinated and are trapped in their belief system.  They're metaphorically lost souls. 

I don't know if the Trump presidency will have much of an impact on the trend. We will probably not live to see the day when the religious landscape in this country is significantly different than it is right now. That's a generational process too.