The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[atomheartbevo 90548]

55 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Even the worst criminals deserve representation. Trump defender Alan Dershowitz represented OJ Simpson and he's on Fox News defending Trump. I'm not buying that any law firm would use Trump's sexual infidelity and/or harassment issues as a reason not to represent him because the women in the firm might be offended. I'm sure there are a lot of female lawyers who have represented clients accused of rape, clients who were guilty, clients who they knew were guilty.

Those quotes just don't ring true, imo. 

The second batch does ring true, because Trump lies when he doesn't have to, and he does so to his fans, to the public, to leaders of other nations.  Remember him lying to Trudeau, just because Trump didn't have the facts?  Remember Trump lying about Conor Lamb after the defeat in PA?  Remember Trump lying about the Hispanic judge in his Trump U lawsuit?  He didn't need to lie about any of those things, but he did, because that's who he is. He even later basically boasted about lying to Trudeau at a fundraiser.

There can't be too many reputable law firms that want to deal with that shit at the level that Trump is at - they see his legal team bailing on him, they've watched the revolving door in the White House, they know that he feels he's his own best counsel, they know he'll ignore his legal counsel.

More importantly, they know that if Trump gets in a room with Mueller, Trump is going to start saying all kinds of shit he shouldn't say, whether it's true or false, simply because Trump thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room, and he thinks he can cut deals with anybody.

Edited March 28, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Going back to Trump’s real estate days, many lawyers would require another lawyer present as a witness when talking to Trump, because he lies so much.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The second batch does ring true, because Trump lies when he doesn't have to, and he does so to his fans, to the public, to leaders of other nations.  Remember him lying to Trudeau, just because Trump didn't have the facts?  Remember Trump lying about Conor Lamb after the defeat in PA?  Remember Trump lying about the Hispanic judge in his Trump U lawsuit?  He didn't need to lie about any of those things, but he did, because that's who he is. He even later basically boasted about lying to Trudeau at a fundraiser.

There can't be too many reputable law firms that want to deal with that shit at the level that Trump is at - they see his legal team bailing on him, they've watched the revolving door in the White House, they know that he feels he's his own best council, they know he'll ignore his legal council.

More importantly, they know that if Trump gets in a room with Mueller, Trump is going to start saying all kinds of shit he shouldn't say, whether it's true or false, simply because Trump thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room, and he thinks he can cut deals with anybody.

Yeah, I think the fact that he can't help but lie and has a tendency not to pay for services rendered is the only explanation we need. I don't buy that his sexual misbehavior has anything to do with his inability to find counsel. 

[Hornmatic 285]

31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

More importantly, they know that if Trump gets in a room with Mueller, Trump is going to start saying all kinds of shit he shouldn't say, whether it's true or false, simply because Trump thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room, and he thinks he can cut deals with anybody.

In the one deposition of Trump that I read he was much much more careful with the truth than he is in public. He essentially admitted to lying in public or tried to explain how what clearly appeared to be lies, mischaracterizations, and gross exaggerations we’re really because of how he thought about those topics. He avoided perjury by owning up to his bullshit and describing his own pretzel logic. 

I think that was the Trump U depo. If there are any others out there please post. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump newish lawyer

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lawyer/exclusive-spurned-by-top-lawyers-trumps-defense-elevates-washington-outsider-idUSKBN1H409J

Quote

(Reuters) - A little-known former prosecutor with a doctorate in medieval history will play a central role on U.S. President Donald Trump's legal team, as many top-tier lawyers shy away from representing him in a probe into Russia's meddling in the 2016 election.

Andrew Ekonomou, 69, is one of a handful of lawyers assisting Jay Sekulow, the main attorney representing Trump in Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

Sekulow told Reuters on Tuesday that after the departure of Washington attorney John Dowd from Trump's personal legal team last week, Ekonomou will assume a more prominent role. 

Ekonomou said he has been working with Sekulow on the Mueller probe since June.

The elevation comes at a crucial time in the Mueller probe, as Trump's team is negotiating the terms under which the president himself may be interviewed. Sekulow is now the last man standing of a trio of personal lawyers hired last spring to assist Trump on the probe. Combative New York lawyer Marc Kasowitz exited the team last summer.

Sekulow said Ekonomou, who works under contract as an assistant district attorney in Brunswick, Georgia, was a "brilliant strategist" who has handled complex investigations for decades. Ekonomou assisted Sekulow in a famous case involving the religious group Jews for Jesus before the Supreme Court in the 1980s.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Grandpa got hired?

[Hefeweizen 5416]

Can he get Kevin Morgan's douchebag lawyer?

[zork 629]

Easter '18 will be here before we know it.  Shall we reset the impeachment clock to Easter '19?  I'm guessing there will be a lot more indictments in the run-up to the November '18 for some strange reason.  What say you?

[SKJ 1317]

Was he supposed to not make it to Easter?

[Goredho 17627]

 

9 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, I think the fact that he can't help but lie and has a tendency not to pay for services rendered is the only explanation we need. I don't buy that his sexual misbehavior has anything to do with his inability to find counsel. 

Better call Saul

[DixonHur 11941]

Who needs lawyers, when you can just run a smear campaign.

Trump unleashes the hounds

Within hours, the Drudge Report featured a storyblaming Mueller, the special counsel leading the Justice Department’s Russia probe, for the FBI’s clumsy investigation into the 2001 anthrax attacks when Mueller ran the bureau. The independent pro-Trump journalist Sara Carter posted a storycharging that Mueller, as a federal prosecutor in Boston in the mid-1980s, had covered up the FBI’s dealings with the Mafia informant Whitey Bulger. Carter was soon discussing her findings in prime time with Fox News host Sean Hannity.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The big takeaway here is the campaign (Manafort/Gates) knew they were in contact with the GRU during the campaign.  I’m 99% sure Konstantin Kilimnik was the contact who was known as “the GRU guy” to the campaign.

story from August 

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/paul-manafort-ukraine-kiev-russia-konstantin-kilimnik-227181

 

development today:

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Chewy's Hairy Horn 868]

Um...that's really bad. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 minutes ago, Chewy's Hairy Horn said:

Um...that's really bad. 

It is but it’s par for the course.  Manafort himself might be FSB and if that’s the case, he will never flip.

Sergey Kislyak, who was all up in the campaign with multiple people before and after the election is one of Russia’s top spies.  Kislyak’s father was a KGB legend during the Cold War.  

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

Gates knew he was contacting Russian intelligence in September and October 2016. That sounds a hell of a lot like collusion. You expect me to believe the candidate wasn’t aware or approved?

This plus Roger Stone coordinating with the Russian hacker is almost too much. 

[sheeeit 129]

Hello all.  New site.  No name calling.

This is not what you think it appears to me.  The supposed spy in question has been an employee of Manafort for like 11 years.  Of course Manafort and Gates talked to him and emailed him often.  He worked with them.  This is not some new player that turned up for the election.  For the record, the guy has said he is not part of the GRU and there is not any proof that he is any part of it.  He certainly could be some GRU plant but that is some deep cover since he has been employed bt Manafort for 11 years.

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Gates knew he was contacting Russian intelligence in September and October 2016. That sounds a hell of a lot like collusion. You expect me to believe the candidate wasn’t aware or approved?

This plus Roger Stone coordinating with the Russian hacker is almost too much. 

 

[kevwun 16269]

Thanks for posting.  My ignore list missed you.

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

3 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Hello all.  New site.  No name calling.

This is not what you think it appears to me.  The supposed spy in question has been an employee of Manafort for like 11 years.  Of course Manafort and Gates talked to him and emailed him often.  He worked with them.  This is not some new player that turned up for the election.  For the record, the guy has said he is not part of the GRU and there is not any proof that he is any part of it.  He certainly could be some GRU plant but that is some deep cover since he has been employed bt Manafort for 11 years.

 

You have 0 credible information on who Person A is. Stop trolling. 

[kevwun 16269]

Gates was actually talking to a British gang member.

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

FLASHFORWARD

[Trump on video getting peed on by hookers]

sheeeit: This is not what you think it appears to me

[sheeeit 129]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

You have 0 credible information on who Person A is. Stop trolling. 

I am curious why you did not call this trolling.  It was in the post you replied to.

" I’m 99% sure Konstantin Kilimnik was the contact who was known as “the GRU guy” to the campaign."

You are correct that we do not know with 100% certainty.  But virtually every major news source is saying that it is.

[VRHorn 731]

10 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

The supposed spy in question has been an employee of Manafort for like 11 years.  Of course Manafort and Gates talked to him and emailed him often.  He worked with them.

In sheeeit's mind, this makes it better.

[sheeeit 129]

2 minutes ago, VRHorn said:

In sheeeit's mind, this makes it better.

Jeez.  The article and subsequent posts insinuated that Gates had some new, unknown, nefarious contact with a Russian spy during the campaign.  The obvious implication was that it was some sort of campaign related contact, otherwise, why is it even relevant.  So pointing out that the guy in question (we can go with Hugo's 99%) had been "communicating" and working with Gates and Manafort for the past 11 years on their business that was completely unrelated to trump seems important.  

I suppose it might look bad for Manafort and Gates, although I am not really sure how as there are thousands of former spies from all over the world that go into private business.  But there is zero evidence that this guy had any involvement whatsoever with the campaign.  The FBI and the HIC and SIC already have all of his emails.  

[SquishMitten 10493]

He was right. It's not what I think it appears to him.

[sheeeit 129]

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4424912/3-27-18-Van-Der-Zwaan-Sentencing-Memo.pdf

 

You guys can read about it yourselves.  This whole particular line has zero to do with trump or the campaign.  Maybe this is bad for Manafort and Gates and their work in the Ukraine, but what does this have to do with anything related to the mueller investigation of trump?  I can see why mueller wanted to interview the lawyer as he seems to be very thorough but there just is not anything there related to trump.  I really do not know why you guys keep falling for this stuff.  

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

Surly's ignore function is way better than Shaggy's. Nice.

[retread 2951]

It's glorious.

[shnsajax 3605]

I'm curious as to what else the Dutch intelligence knows considering the DNC hack, and Van Der Zwann.

Also this article is great. Its old, but a funny read.

https://dutchreview.com/news/international/trump-money-laundering-in-the-netherlands/

[Tuco 5093]

12 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, I think the fact that he can't help but lie and has a tendency not to pay for services rendered is the only explanation we need. I don't buy that his sexual misbehavior has anything to do with his inability to find counsel. 

I have to think a big part of it is Trump's unwillingness to take his lawyers' advice.  That means the lawyers are frequently look stupid as they try to control the situation, and they look so in a very public way. In order to advocate for their client, they proffer idiotic rationalizations in the media.  Reputation of competence, not morality, is what drives their rates. 

 

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11856]

10 hours ago, zork said:

Easter '18 will be here before we know it.  Shall we reset the impeachment clock to Easter '19?  I'm guessing there will be a lot more indictments in the run-up to the November '18 for some strange reason.  What say you?

Lulz.  Counting pubic hairs now on your elected president?  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11856]

1 hour ago, sheeeit said:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4424912/3-27-18-Van-Der-Zwaan-Sentencing-Memo.pdf

 

You guys can read about it yourselves.  This whole particular line has zero to do with trump or the campaign.  Maybe this is bad for Manafort and Gates and their work in the Ukraine, but what does this have to do with anything related to the mueller investigation of trump?  I can see why mueller wanted to interview the lawyer as he seems to be very thorough but there just is not anything there related to trump.  I really do not know why you guys keep falling for this stuff.  

Go fuck yourself.  Ahh.  That feels good. Go fuck yourself some more you cumsucking troll.  

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

I bet Skadden Arps is glad to have their name in the news.  

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Also, those sentencing documents are must reads.  

 

The first is: sure he lied to the FBI to help cover up attempts to undo the independence of our nation and collapse the integrity of the constitutional order this court works under, but isn’t losing a job at Skadden enough?

 

the second is: maybe rich people should go to jail too?

[wildcat09 29558]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I have to think a big part of it is Trump's unwillingness to take his lawyers' advice.  That means the lawyers are frequently look stupid as they try to control the situation, and they look so in a very public way. In order to advocate for their client, they proffer idiotic rationalizations in the media.  Reputation of competence, not morality, is what drives their rates. 

 

 

Yup. He makes his lawyers look like morons because he refuses to listen to them, then he blames them when he gets himself into hot water (and likely refuses to pay them), and has a bad habit of making his lawyers complicit in, or at a minimum witnesses to, his criminal activity. Can't imagine why nobody wants the job.

[Hefeweizen 5416]

I can't read this shit until I figure out how to use the ignore function.

[SquishMitten 10493]

Hover your mouse over username/avatar, click ignore.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Lawyer was John Dowd

 

WASHINGTON — A lawyer for President Trump broached the idea of Mr. Trump pardoning two of his former top advisers, Michael T. Flynn and Paul Manafort, with their lawyers last year, according to three people with knowledge of the discussions.

The discussions came as the special counsel was building cases against both men, and they raise questions about whether the lawyer, John Dowd, was offering pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the investigation.

The talks suggest that Mr. Trump’s lawyers were concerned about what Mr. Flynn and Mr. Manafort might reveal were they to cut a deal with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, in exchange for leniency. Mr. Mueller’s team could investigate the prospect that Mr. Dowd made pardon offers to thwart the inquiry, although legal experts are divided about whether such offers might constitute obstruction of justice.

Mr. Dowd’s conversation with Mr. Flynn’s lawyer, Robert K. Kelner, occurred sometime after Mr. Dowd took over last summer as the president’s personal lawyer, at a time when a grand jury was hearing evidence against Mr. Flynn on a range of potential crimes. Mr. Flynn, who served as Mr. Trump’s first national security adviser, agreed in late November to cooperate with the special counsel’s investigation. He pleaded guilty in December to lying to the F.B.I. about his conversations with the Russian ambassador and received favorable sentencing terms.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[hobbes2702 13351]

Well they can’t plead the 5th if they are pardoned

Edited March 28, 2018 by hobbes2702

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

This is clearly how an innocent person behaves :eyeroll:

[Francisco 2.0 32543]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Lawyer was John Dowd

Mr. Dowd, Robert Muller is on line 1.  

 

 

 

[BYG Jacob 47]

5 hours ago, sheeeit said:

Hello all.  New site.  No name calling.

This is not what you think it appears to me.  The supposed spy in question has been an employee of Manafort for like 11 years.  Of course Manafort and Gates talked to him and emailed him often.  He worked with them.  This is not some new player that turned up for the election.  For the record, the guy has said he is not part of the GRU and there is not any proof that he is any part of it.  He certainly could be some GRU plant but that is some deep cover since he has been employed bt Manafort for 11 years.

 

You’re a cock gobbling piece of shit

[Judge Roybeanbag 11856]

He is,  and a wordy fucking troll too.   Reminds me of the rock throwing pedophile.  

[Captainant 28390]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Well they can’t plead the 5th if they are pardoned

So here's the doomsday I'm worried about:

1) they take the presidential pardon
2) they refuse to comply with subpoenas
3) they are found in contempt of court
4) they are pardoned from the contempt charges
5) repeat

I have no doubt in my mind some shit like that is going to be tried by frump and co

Edited March 28, 2018 by Captainant

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

So here's the doomsday I'm worried about:

1) they take the presidential pardon
2) they refuse to comply with subpoenas
3) they are found in contempt of court
4) they are pardoned from the contempt charges
5) repeat

I have no doubt in my mind some shit like that is going to be tried by frump and co

If Manafort gets pardoned somehow, I see him fleeing the country to avoid State prosecution.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[DDD Dad 14571]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If Manafort gets pardoned somehow, I see him fleeing the country to avoid State prosecution defenestrated after ingesting Novichok.

FIFY

[atomheartbevo 90548]

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

So here's the doomsday I'm worried about:

1) they take the presidential pardon
2) they refuse to comply with subpoenas
3) they are found in contempt of court
4) they are pardoned from the contempt charges
5) repeat

I have no doubt in my mind some shit like that is going to be tried by frump and co

If Trump starts throwing pardons around, he still can't pardon them from any of the charges brought about by the state AGs.  I actually think Kushner has more to fear from the state AGs.

And if Trump starts throwing pardons around, he will definitely give the House over to the Dems this year, and the Senate in 2020.

I really don't think Trump wants the Dems going through his business dealings in public hearings in Congress next year.  There is a reason why he would not show his loyal followers his tax returns, and I don't think he wants the Dems pointing out all of the people/companies he did business with.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

36 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If Trump starts throwing pardons around, he still can't pardon them from any of the charges brought about by the state AGs.  I actually think Kushner has more to fear from the state AGs.

And if Trump starts throwing pardons around, he will definitely give the House over to the Dems this year, and the Senate in 2020.

I really don't think Trump wants the Dems going through his business dealings in public hearings in Congress next year.  There is a reason why he would not show his loyal followers his tax returns, and I don't think he wants the Dems pointing out all of the people/companies he did business with.

I think the political fallout is the bigger risk to Trump for issuing pardons.  I just don’t think that state prosecutors would put guys away that the president just pardoned.   Too much respect for the office.