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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

In all honesty Jhawk, I know there is a lot to keep up with in this shitshow, but you probably shouldn't come in here spouting your theories when it's clear to the rest of us that you haven't put in the leg work.

I didn't spout a theory.  I asked a question and then posed a view of how people will react.  I can't help that certain posters here think that misreporting income for a bank loan 2 years before a political campaign started is tied to russian collusion and that this crime is going to bring down trump.

I'll pose another question, if I am ignorant (which I stopped reading every page of this thread about 60 pages in and decided to only ask questions from then on), then how do you think the average american thinks?  I at least have cognitive thought unlike many americans.  Do you think they have done the leg work?  Do you think they will ask the right questions?  No one is following this anymore, and absolutely no one is following it to the detail that many in here have.  So what about those people?  Do you think they will just come to the same conclusions as you and Trump is a dead man walking?  I'm not seeing that.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

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You ok, Hugo?

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

WASHINGTON — After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigationinto the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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9 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Point of order: Manafort admitted he gave proprietary polling data to Russian intelligence in 2016. He only disputes whether he lied about it. Are we really still arguing Manafort did nothing wrong?

I never said he did nothing wrong, he was obviously found guilty of many things and he should be in jail. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

You ok, Hugo?

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

WASHINGTON — After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigationinto the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

 

You mean other than the Trump Tower meeting?

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udaydanceparty

udaydanceparty 33

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Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

You ok, Hugo?

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

WASHINGTON — After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigationinto the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

 

Imagine being someone who spent 2+ years of your life obsessing over this conspiracy theory.. 

 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You ok, Hugo?

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

WASHINGTON — After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigationinto the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

 

Yeah, crazy they would find no evidence when the key witnesses were clearly lying or never questioned. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27755

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2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You ok, Hugo?

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

WASHINGTON — After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigationinto the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.

 

The buzzfeed document drop last week would disagree. And Sen. Burr gave an interview last week that would disagree with this as well.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8734

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Just now, Jhawk said:

I never said he did nothing wrong, he was obviously found guilty of many things and he should be in jail. 

This admission came as a result of Mueller’s charges and investigation. You cannot acknowledge this fact and also assert Manafort is going to jail just for money laundering and tax fraud unrelated to Trump’s 2016 campaign. Those are inconsistent positions and you’re only outing yourself as a troll

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105301

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1 minute ago, Jhawk said:

I didn't spout a theory.  I asked a question and then posed a view of how people will react.  I can't help that certain posters here think that misreporting income for a bank loan 2 years before a political campaign started is tied to russian collusion and that this crime is going to bring down trump.

I'll pose another question, if I am ignorant (which I stopped reading every page of this thread about 60 pages in and decided to only ask questions from then on), then how do you think the average american thinks?  I at least have cognitive thought unlike many americans.  Do you think they have done the leg work?  Do you think they will ask the right questions?  No one is following this anymore, and absolutely no one is following it to the detail that many in here have.  So what about those people?  Do you think they will just come to the same conclusions as you and Trump is a dead man walking?  I'm not seeing that.

What I love is how this diminishes the "at the very least" portion of this story.

As in, AT THE VERY LEAST, Donald Trump, seeking to be the CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE COUNTRY, hired as his campaign manager a completely crooked and compromised piece of shit.  The person he hired to run the show....was Paul fucking Manafort.  Making a hire that terrible would get any other CEO summarily dismissed by the board.  It is an utterly disqualifying decision, standing alone, requiring no other evidence or record.  Crime or not, it's as dumbass a move as an executive can make.

Getting the people to argue "but there's no proof that Trump ORDERED Manafort to play footsie with the Russians" is arguing over a higher standard that doesn't even need to be met.

He hired a crooked blind man to fly the plane.  That gets any CEO fired.

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Captainant

Captainant 27755

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1 minute ago, udaydanceparty said:

Buzzfeed...  LOL

Sorry, Pulitzer Prize nominated Buzzfeed News. Here's the article if you haven't seen it that also includes the raw documentary evidence of the claims they're making. It's even in a nice timeline so you can see the pattern between backchannel communication between Cohen and russian cutouts and trump's strange fellating public statements towards russia/putin.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5987

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29 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Barr already said that he thinks the report should be public.  As mentioned in my subsequent post, Trump suppressing the report would be suicide.  What is he going to do?  Fire the AG who was just approved?  Also, given the state of our politics, I guarantee that the first person who doesn't like trump who get's their hands on the report will leak it.  Especially if that is Schiff or Waters.

He fired the last AG he approved. 

 

12 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Point of order: Manafort admitted he gave proprietary polling data to Russian intelligence in 2016. He only disputes whether he lied about it. Are we really still arguing Manafort did nothing wrong?

Just another poster asking questions.   And probably another But Hillary conspirator without any evidence anywhere after multiple investigations extending over years, decades if we trudge back to Whitewater.  But defense questions noted. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

So regardless of what the Senate and/or Muller finds, you already know the truth

Cool.

But investigators disagree along party lines when it comes to the implications of a pattern of contacts they have documented between Trump associates and Russians — contacts that occurred before, during and after Russian intelligence operatives were seeking to help Donald Trump by leaking hacked Democratic emails and attacking his opponent, Hillary Clinton, on social media.

 
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

So regardless of what the Senate and/or Muller finds, you already know the truth.

The Mueller court documents are already implicating members of the Trump campaign coordinating with Wikileaks and Russian Inrelligence.

Don Jr's emails which he put out incriminate him setting up a literal secret conspiracy meeting with representatives of the Russian government in Trump Tower to take down Hillary. 

Not my fault you choose to ignore these facts. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Mueller court documents are already implicating members of the Trump campaign coordinating with Wikileaks and Russian Inrelligence.

Don Jr's emails which he put out incriminate him setting up a literal secret conspiracy meeting with representatives of the Russian government in Trump Tower to take down Hillary. 

Not my fault you choose to ignore these facts. 

Keep fucking that chicken.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5987

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Just now, Captainant said:

Sorry, Pulitzer Prize nominated Buzzfeed News. Here's the article if you haven't seen it that also includes the raw documentary evidence of the claims they're making. It's even in a nice timeline so you can see the pattern between backchannel communication between Cohen and russian cutouts and trump's strange fellating public statements towards russia/putin.

Just going to raise more questions from somebody that refuses to use the internet they are posting on to actually do research. The defense is all about questions, deflection and avoidance.  It's all fake news unless Donald confirms it.  He can say it live on air, be video taped saying it and still claim its fake news.  That's some true believer fanaticism--blind devotion.  Those lemmings want to take hostages with them over the cliff.           

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Jhawk

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What I love is how this diminishes the "at the very least" portion of this story.

As in, AT THE VERY LEAST, Donald Trump, seeking to be the CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE COUNTRY, hired as his campaign manager a completely crooked and compromised piece of shit.  The person he hired to run the show....was Paul fucking Manafort.  Making a hire that terrible would get any other CEO summarily dismissed by the board.  It is an utterly disqualifying decision, standing alone, requiring no other evidence or record.  Crime or not, it's as dumbass a move as an executive can make.

Getting the people to argue "but there's no proof that Trump ORDERED Manafort to play footsie with the Russians" is arguing over a higher standard that doesn't even need to be met.

He hired a crooked blind man to fly the plane.  That gets any CEO fired.

He also fired that campaign manager within months of hiring him.  Does he get credit for that?

Also, from everything I've read here and from the noise that congress-critters are making Trump is going down for "high CRIMES and MISDEMEANORS".  So it would stand that it actually does take a crime to remove him from office.  I'm assuming that there is some doubt, or absolute knowledge that, hiring a crooked piece of shit isn't an actual crime.  So, how can you be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors if there is doubt cast (beyond a reasonable doubt some would say) that hiring a POS isn't a crime?

If Manafort, Cohen, Jr., or Stone's actions DIRECTLY implicate and lead to Trump pulling the strings then Trump will and should go down.  Unequivocally.  But just because you walk around with shitbirds doesn't mean you are a criminal which is what it takes at this point to remove trump from office. 

Your post seems to want to appeal to emotion more so than how things actually play out.  Which is funny, because when I talk about "public perception" I get flamed because "that's not how it works" but people in this club also want to throw out emotional responses to say "yeah but he's still a bad guy."

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udaydanceparty

udaydanceparty 33

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10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Sorry, Pulitzer Prize nominated Buzzfeed News. Here's the article if you haven't seen it that also includes the raw documentary evidence of the claims they're making. It's even in a nice timeline so you can see the pattern between backchannel communication between Cohen and russian cutouts and trump's strange fellating public statements towards russia/putin.

Was this is the one Mueller came out and squashed because it was so dumb?  Or is that another buzzfeed article?

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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1 minute ago, Jhawk said:

He also fired that campaign manager within months of hiring him.  Does he get credit for that?

Also, from everything I've read here and from the noise that congress-critters are making Trump is going down for "high CRIMES and MISDEMEANORS".  So it would stand that it actually does take a crime to remove him from office.  I'm assuming that there is some doubt, or absolute knowledge that, hiring a crooked piece of shit isn't an actual crime.  So, how can you be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors if there is doubt cast (beyond a reasonable doubt some would say) that hiring a POS isn't a crime?

If Manafort, Cohen, Jr., or Stone's actions DIRECTLY implicate and lead to Trump pulling the strings then Trump will and should go down.  Unequivocally.  But just because you walk around with shitbirds doesn't mean you are a criminal which is what it takes at this point to remove trump from office. 

Your post seems to want to appeal to emotion more so than how things actually play out.  Which is funny, because when I talk about "public perception" I get flamed because "that's not how it works" but people in this club also want to throw out emotional responses to say "yeah but he's still a bad guy."

There is plenty of evidence out there already proving Donald Trump is a criminal. 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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Just now, David Dennison said:

There is plenty of evidence out there already proving Donald Trump is a criminal. 

Why hasn't he been perp walked yet and why are lefties suddenly downplaying the mueller investigation like it is going to produce nothing?

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udaydanceparty

udaydanceparty 33

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Just now, Pokemon said:

The House is expanding the probe precisely because literally nobody on Earth believed in the full scope and accuracy of the Senate oversight. It was more honest and sincere than the previous House incestigation yes but obviously not to be taken as, overall, a conclusive or credible report. The Senate is Trump's firewall.

Duh. 

I guess that's one possible explanation. I think the simpler reason is that it's a political game to keep their base distracted from losing.

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Captainant

Captainant 27755

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3 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

Was this is the one Mueller came out and squashed because it was so dumb?  Or is that another buzzfeed article?

First off, Mueller didn't "squash" the Buzzfeed report you're referring to, he said his office disagreed with the "description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office". 

Second, this is a second article that was posted in service of the first article, providing documentary evidence to bolster the claims they made in the first.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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Just now, Pokemon said:

Because the report might be suppressed.

It has already produced far more than nothing. See the flurry of arrests.

As to what can be done about it, this is a delicate matter. If he wasn't president, New York would already have indicted him. 

But if he is a criminal then all you have to do is file an indictment.  The public doesn't have to see shit.  We didn't see anything until Stone and Manafort were indicted.  Forget about the constitutionality of it, just file it and make the courts decide if the president can be indicted.  That will destroy him because then the special counsel believes there is enough evidence to get a conviction.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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1 minute ago, Pokemon said:

There might be a sealed indictment already, yes.

So unseal it.  What is there to lose?  If trump's name is on it then he will be irreparably damaged.  That's what the dems want isn't it? It wouldn't even take a conviction.

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