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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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bolverk

bolverk 29717

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Posted
8 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m pretty sure he pled guilty to state law crimes as well as part of his deal. If true and I’m him I don’t want a pardon, because then its off to the state pen instead of the custody of the feds.  Both are terrible of course but state prison is much much worse to a significant degree. 

If I’m wrong criminal lawyers please chime in. 

That would certainly be my preference. I grew up in a town that had a minimum security federal prison and the running local joke was to call it "Club Fed."

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31534

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m pretty sure he pled guilty to state law crimes as well as part of his deal. If true and I’m him I don’t want a pardon, because then its off to the state pen instead of the custody of the feds.  Both are terrible of course but state prison is much much worse to a significant degree. 

If I’m wrong criminal lawyers please chime in. 

Not specifically, no state crimes.  Possibly admitted facts constituting state crimes.  https://www.justice.gov/file/1094151/download

This possibly more relevant as I believe it survive the breach of the plea agreement.  https://www.justice.gov/file/1094156/download

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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9 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Do you believe that the "adoption" meeting with Russians which all American participants have lied about is not evidence of collusion? The president dictated a press release for his son that was also a lie about this meeting.

Why would "what he believes" ever matter? Don't you form your own opinion based upon the facts? You entire post is free of facts and therefore persuasiveness.

But I'll respond anyway. Jonathan Turley is a pretty mainstream and his opinion is pretty middle of the road. I agree with every word of his post.

Quote

For more than a year, some of us have argued that allegations of collusion or conspiracy in the Trump Tower meeting were unsubstantiated and illogical. If a true conspiracy occurred between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence, why would they ever call a meeting with unknown participants in the most highly visible location possible?

The Russians may be duplicitous, but they are not stupid. What was the benefit of such a meeting when the Russians could work through back channels to get the information to journalists or a single insider? Instead, conspiracy theorists suggested that the Russians picked a clownish British music promoter to arrange a meeting by expressly promising compromising information from the Russian government in writing.

One of the most interesting aspects of the new information was the response from the media. CNN, which has a bevy of legal analysts who have been flogging the Trump Tower conspiracy for months, ran the headline, “Trump Tower transcripts detail quest for dirt on Hillary Clinton.” Nothing on the great conspiracy or collusion. Just a detailed account of the quest for “dirt.” Trump Jr. admitted his ill-considered “I love it” comment was in response to the prospect of getting official documents that would expose Clinton as a criminal. If true, then the meeting was moronic, naive, but entirely legal.

Trump Jr. admitted he wanted to see any official documents on criminal conduct by Clinton. In this case, Trump Jr. was told that the “crown prosecutor of Russia” had offered “to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.” Music promoter Rod Goldstone added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

All of the participants confirmed that the meeting was brief — around 20 minutes — and that no real evidence was supplied or discussed. All of the witnesses were consistent in describing a meeting billed as the disclosure of criminal conduct but actually meant to raise the continuing controversy over the Magnitsky Act, a 2012 congressional bill that imposed restrictions on travel and banking on 18 Russian officials and other figures. It remains an ongoing controversy in Russia and was the long focus of Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya.

The use of the meeting to pitch for the rescission of the Magnitsky Act was described by Goldstone as an embarrassment. He testified that “Jared Kushner, who is sitting next to me, appeared somewhat agitated by this and said, ‘I really have no idea what you’re talking about. Could you please focus a bit more and maybe just start again?’ And I recall that she began the presentation exactly where she had begun it last time, almost word for word, which seemed, by his body language, to infuriate him even more.” Goldstone apologized to Trump Jr. for wasting his time.

Many of the media continue to refuse to acknowledge the fact that both campaigns were actively seeking dirt on the other side, including information from Russian intelligence figures. While the Clinton campaign long denied the connection to the Steele dossier, including in meetings with investigators, Clinton and her top campaign officials belatedly admitted to funding the dossier after media found evidence linking it to Clinton’s top lawyer. It was buried as a campaign expenditure to a law firm. Clinton aides now express disbelief that anyone would question such “opposition research” on Trump, even from Russian sources.

None of this changes the fact that Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort were idiots to take such a meeting. Clinton was far more sophisticated, using a surrogate like former British spy Christopher Steele. Moreover, there remains uncertainty over the identity of a caller who telephoned Trump Jr. after he spoke with Russian pop star Emin Agalarov about the meeting. The number was blocked and Senate Judiciary Committee Republicans refused to subpoena the records to determine the identity of the caller. (President Trump is known to use a blocked number.) The committee should have subpoenaed that record. If that call was Trump, it would sharply contradict the statements of the president and his son.

However, the transcript reveals a largely consistent and entirely plausible account of a meeting of chumps, not conspirators. The statement drafted by President Trump on Air Force One was misleading in failing to mention the original purpose of the meeting. But if such spins were crimes in Washington, there would not be a single politician left at liberty.

None of this changes my view that special counsel Robert Mueller should be allowed to finish his investigation or that real, though largely unrelated, crimes have been exposed by Manafort and others. However, it is also true that the original purpose of the investigation — Russian collusion with the campaign — has thus far failed to materialize. Mueller may well have evidence, but it is unlikely to be found in the Trump Tower meeting.

https://jonathanturley.org/2018/05/18/ockhams-razor-and-the-trump-tower-transcripts/

But the pathology leading so many to engage in mass delusion is simply fascinating. You guys aren't dumb. Dumb people are a dime a dozen, and they aren't interesting. You guys are interesting.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He has not flipped. He's been lying. They have much more to ask Paul Manafort now that he's facing the rest of his life in prison.

They’re not going to play anymore games with Manafort.  

It will be more helpful to Mueller if they lock this motherfucker away forever because it tells every other cooperating and would be cooperating witness you do not fuck with Robert Mueller plea deals.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30002

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48 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Why would "what he believes" ever matter? Don't you form your own opinion based upon the facts? You entire post is free of facts and therefore persuasiveness.

I bet that sounded and felt really smart when you composed it. You're really not worth responding to.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

They’re not going to play anymore games with Manafort.  

It will be more helpful to Mueller if they lock this motherfucker away forever because it tells every other cooperating and would be cooperating witness you do not fuck with Robert Mueller plea deals.

Nah. They're gonna put the screws to him now and dangle a reduced sentence as opposed to life in prison. They aren't going to waste this new leverage. 

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10752

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He is a scorpion. They knew that when they gave him the deal and he was true to form. Luckily, they didn't trust him and found it out. He is cooked. The only thing I'm wondering is if PM was lying so that maybe Trump would throw him a lifeline with a pardon. He was probably gambling that it would happen. But I don't know if Trump can either legally or even politically now. I think Manafort is likely fucked. I wouldn't be surprised if he offs himself now. He seems like the type.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Just now, David Dennison said:

It's never to late to cooperate with the prosecution. If he provides corroborating evidence that he has previously been lying about, they will gladly take it.

You’re assuming Manafort has something of value that only he could provide to prosecutors.

That is a big assumption at this point in the investigation.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

Posted
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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re assuming Manafort has something of value that only he could provide to prosecutors.

That is a big assumption at this point in the investigation.

He might. He might not. He might be able to corroborate other evidence. 

Or they might not care what he has and lock him up for good.

 

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

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Manafort is a grade A piece of shit with an untold amount of blood on his hands. His own daughter condemned him as an evil piece of shit. I'd guess Mueller finds it intensely satisfying to put that motherfucker behind bars for the rest of his life.

If he's going to try to cooperate now, he better have something REALLY fucking good. 

Edited by suddenly shaggy
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I bet that sounded and felt really smart when you composed it. You're really not worth responding to.

Trump's job approval was up seven points after the shutdown. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-job-approval-up-7-points-after-shutdown-gallup/ar-BBTx7D5

How does that make you feel? I mean, he's a Russian spy. Is this crazy or what? Shouldn't we do something? The Dems are too scared to impeach and Mueller is in the pocket of Republicans.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

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1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

Trump's job approval was up seven points after the shutdown. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-job-approval-up-7-points-after-shutdown-gallup/ar-BBTx7D5

How does that make you feel? I mean, he's a Russian spy. Is this crazy or what? Shouldn't we do something? The Dems are too scared to impeach and Mueller is in the pocket of Republicans.

Do you want to talk about all of the polls that still have his numbers in the toilet or just the outliers?

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bolverk

bolverk 29717

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do you want to talk about all of the polls that still have his numbers in the toilet or just the outliers?

Theboxofhammers doesn't realize that any reward Trump might be getting in the polls is ephemeral and is due to the fact that his caving to pressure actually reflected the public desire to not shut down the federal government over some stupid and ineffective wall. In other words, the rise is really just a sigh of relief.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Theboxofhammers doesn't realize that any reward Trump might be getting in the polls is ephemeral and is due to the fact that his caving to pressure actually reflected the public desire to not shut down the federal government over some stupid and ineffective wall. In other words, the rise is really just a sigh of relief.

Sir, you have done enough and have shown the sorrow and piety of a saint. You have redeemed every mistake you might have made, and have paid more penance than you have done wrong. At last, forgive your sins as Heaven has forgiven it, and forgive yourself.

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bolverk

bolverk 29717

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7 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

What you're saying is that from the inside, you can't explain it, and from the outside you just can't understand.

I can fully explain it: You refuse to acknowledge the mountain of publicly available direct and circumstantial evidence that either Trump, his campaign chairmen and advisors, or all of the above, conspired to win the 2016 election. You know that this occurred but seemingly don't give a shit.

Yet again, Theboxofhammers proves himself to be wrong about everything - even analogies.  

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8734

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2 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Trump's job approval was up seven points after the shutdown. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-job-approval-up-7-points-after-shutdown-gallup/ar-BBTx7D5

How does that make you feel? I mean, he's a Russian spy. Is this crazy or what? Shouldn't we do something? The Dems are too scared to impeach and Mueller is in the pocket of Republicans.

Are we celebrating approval ratings of 44% now?

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5987

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's never to late to cooperate with the prosecution. If he provides corroborating evidence that he has previously been lying about, they will gladly take it.

 

True, anything he says now shows he's been lying and is a liar which casts suspicions on his testimony.  But if he wants to provide physical evidence, then Mueller is all eyes.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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