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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89449

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Prepare to be disappointed.  Nothing is going to bring him down.  We’re way past that.  

SDNY, NY AG, etc. are going to be running a train on Trump’s finances.  He may finish out his term without Congress giving him the boot, but his personal finances are going to be ripped to shreds.   

Hell, somebody was talking about insurance companies may go after him for faking his finances (which also is probably a nice hot mess of felonies).   They’ve got some mighty deep pockets.  

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

SDNY, NY AG, etc. are going to be running a train on Trump’s finances.  He may finish out his term without Congress giving him the boot, but his personal finances are going to be ripped to shreds.   

Hell, somebody was talking about insurance companies may go after him for faking his finances (which also is probably a nice hot mess of felonies).   They’ve got some mighty deep pockets.  

Absolutely this.  As ineffective and chaotic as the WH is with Trump having his nepotistic inner circle in place, imagine what Trump will look like when DonJr, Eric, and Ivanka go down with Trump Org corruption.  Kushner is also squarely over the barrel for a multitude of corrupt acts and just got referred to DoJ by Congress for felony lying on his SF-86. 

People talk about a sitting POTUS not being subject to criminal indictment, but it simply won't matter.  He's already an un-indicted co-conspirator with Cohen for felony campaign finance fraud.  Trump paid $25M to settle a TrumpU fraud case.  Then the Trump Foundation got dissolved over corrupt practices.  The same actors who ran Trump Foundation run Trump Org which by all appearances is a criminal enterprise with RICO written all over it.  Think of all the assets of Trump Org being seized and Trump children going to prison.  Trump not being indictable? pffft.  Re-election campaign in 2020 ?  yeah.

And about that insurance fraud you referenced, which the House has just announced it's investigating wrt Aon, remember the name Pam Newman , a top Aon insurance broker and her relationship to Trump.  That $17M Mar-a-Lago hurricane damages paid claim in 2005 where 3k in repairs were invoiced and NO permits were recorded reflecting any significant repairs? Thanks Pam!  hoo boy.

 

Edited by triplehorn
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89449

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

And about that insurance fraud you referenced, which the House has just announced it's investigating wrt Aon, remember the name Pam Newman , a top Aon insurance broker and her relationship to Trump.  That $17M Mar-a-Lago hurricane damages paid claim in 2005 where 3k in repairs were invoiced and NO permits were recorded reflecting any significant repairs? Thanks Pam!  hoo boy.

I’m half-expecting him to start twitter-shitting about insurance companies sometime in the near future.  

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21102

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Frank Figliuzzi, former Assistant Director for Counterintelligence at the FBI, comments on RICO, Michael Cohen's testimony, and Donald Trump:

 

 

Pretty sure I said well over  2 yrs ago on the Shag, RICO, not Russia is taking Dotard down.  Feeling very strongly about that right now.  

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Winona's Big Orange Bevo

Winona's Big Orange Bevo 197

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Pretty sure I said well over  2 yrs ago on the Shag, RICO, not Russia is taking Dotard down.  Feeling very strongly about that right now.  

I know it may be wishful thinking, but it seems like that to as well. The political stuff can easily be parsed and muddied and who cares about playing dirty to win in poltitics is what many people may think. Being tied to mobsters and when big time money and prison sentences are on the line, however, is a whole different ball of wax. Looks like that little snowball that Cohen pushed down the top of the hill in Congress may be gaining speed. These people tangled in this web aren't worried about getting re-elected, they're going to start worrying about getting sent to Federal Prison. When will the rats start jumping ship?

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33843

Posted
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16 minutes ago, Winona's Big Orange Bevo said:

I know it may be wishful thinking, but it seems like that to as well. The political stuff can easily be parsed and muddied and who cares about playing dirty to win in poltitics is what many people may think. Being tied to mobsters and when big time money and prison sentences are on the line, however, is a whole different ball of wax. Looks like that little snowball that Cohen pushed down the top of the hill in Congress may be gaining speed. These people tangled in this web aren't worried about getting re-elected, they're going to start worrying about getting sent to Federal Prison. When will the rats start jumping ship?

I repped you just for your username

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)

That rolling log of butcher knives Cohen kicked down the hill is gaining speed fast :

 

Trump’s ex-lawyer Michael Cohen gives House Intelligence Committee documents revealing alleged edits to false statement about Moscow project

 

last paragraph :

“The New York State Attorney General and Manhattan District Attorney, based alone on these Trump personal hush money reimbursement checks to Cohen while he was president, probably have jurisdiction to launch an investigation of Mr. Trump,” Davis said.

“Indeed, arguably, the Manhattan DA could seek a criminal indictment of President Trump while he is still president, since the DA is not literally subject to the Department of Justice memo, which has never been tested by the courts, that a sitting president cannot be indicted.”

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, triplehorn said:

That rolling log of butcher knives Cohen kicked down the hill is gaining speed fast :

 

Trump’s ex-lawyer Michael Cohen gives House Intelligence Committee documents revealing alleged edits to false statement about Moscow project

 

last paragraph :

“The New York State Attorney General and Manhattan District Attorney, based alone on these Trump personal hush money reimbursement checks to Cohen while he was president, probably have jurisdiction to launch an investigation of Mr. Trump,” Davis said.

“Indeed, arguably, the Manhattan DA could seek a criminal indictment of President Trump while he is still president, since the DA is not literally subject to the Department of Justice memo, which has never been tested by the courts, that a sitting president cannot be indicted.”

While it has never been tested either, there is quite a bit of thought that the Supremacy Clause disposes of state indictments even more swiftly.

And anyone can investigate him, it's dopey to contend otherwise.

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Grandioso

Grandioso 2592

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Admitting to be a poor to own the libs.

I want to meet the genius spreading the disinfo that Stone doesn't need the money. "Q told me that Stone's legal defense fund is just for show. No one donate to it!"

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Zavala said:

waiting.jpg

 

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

While it has never been tested either, there is quite a bit of thought that the Supremacy Clause disposes of state indictments even more swiftly.

And anyone can investigate him, it's dopey to contend otherwise.

I have zero expectation that the Manhattan DA would indict Trump even it could.  There appears to be an order and coordination to this sprawling investigatory and prosecutorial process across jurisdictions.  The longer this goes with Trump coming unglued on Twitter while appearing powerless to do anything, the more people and organizations linked to him we learn about that are in legal jeopardy.  And now 8 weeks in, new House investigations are starting to roll.  Manhattan DA ? naw.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

 

I have zero expectation that the Manhattan DA would indict Trump even it could.  There appears to be an order and coordination to this sprawling investigatory and prosecutorial process across jurisdictions.  The longer this goes with Trump coming unglued on Twitter while appearing powerless to do anything, the more people and organizations linked to him we learn about that are in legal jeopardy.  And now 8 weeks in, new House investigations are starting to roll.  Manhattan DA ? naw.

I was really commenting more on the passage you quoted than anything you said or endorsed.  I do think states are more likely to get away with sealed indictments tolling limitations.

What's a shame and a disgrace is that NY state authorities didn't move on Trump 5 or 10 years ago.  All of this shit could have been easily avoided.  But, NY state is really corrupt, so whaddaya want from me?  Fugeddaboutit.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted

Emily Jane Fox has an in with Michael Cohen and appeared on maddow tonight to discuss his closed meeting with House Intel today.  Check out the 8 min segment with her starting at ~24:00, the final 2-3 min in particular.  There's been speculation all along about Trump dangling pardons in exchange for staying on message/silence, but Cohen appears to have the goods involving the attorney communications involving this.  EJF chooses her words carefully and drops some bombs VVV

Spoiler

 

#ETTD

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4809

Posted
Posted

I am with Triplehorn.  Take the family out of the equation and he loses his inner circle of enablers, plus it destroys his business/reputation in the process.  Exposing him as not being the brightest person ever in the world will bring him down bigly.  The only people who will stand by him will be idiots like Stone who will just multiply his looniness.  The Rs will be stuck between abandoning him and being exposed by him. 

But this has to be done in a way that can't be sloughed off as being deep statey.  He has to be exposed in every way possible to reduce his support base's strength.  And it has to be done in a fair, businesslike way to keep from fanning flames of resentment.  Somehow his base needs to come to understand this guy is not a role model, he has duped them into supporting a sham.   That base is the real wound in our country, Trump is merely the scab.  How we deal with the scab will mean a lot as to how we heal the wound. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

But this has to be done in a way that can't be sloughed off as being deep statey.  He has to be exposed in every way possible to reduce his support base's strength.  And it has to be done in a fair, businesslike way to keep from fanning flames of resentment.  Somehow his base needs to come to understand this guy is not a role model, he has duped them into supporting a sham.  

This is where most observers depart, because it certainly seems likely that the vast majority of his base will not abandon Trump despite overwhelming amounts of malfeasance staring them in their collective face.  It's my opinion that Mueller and the House should simply connect the dots and follow the rule of law.  

The goal should not be to convince his base that Trump is wrong.  They should be completely written off and shunned from society.  The goal should be to motivate the rest of our citizens to get out and vote against Trump and any elected officials who continue to enable him.  Votes are a powerful weapon.  Frankly, they're the only weapon we have, until such time as they aren't, at which point we have gone full authoritarian mode and extreme measures will be necessary.  Let's hope it never gets to that.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4809

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22 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is where most observers depart, because it certainly seems likely that the vast majority of his base will not abandon Trump despite overwhelming amounts of malfeasance staring them in their collective face.  It's my opinion that Mueller and the House should simply connect the dots and follow the rule of law.  

The goal should not be to convince his base that Trump is wrong.  They should be completely written off and shunned from society.  The goal should be to motivate the rest of our citizens to get out and vote against Trump and any elected officials who continue to enable him.  Votes are a powerful weapon.  Frankly, they're the only weapon we have, until such time as they aren't, at which point we have gone full authoritarian mode and extreme measures will be necessary.  Let's hope it never gets to that.

Good take.  But I'd have to write off my brother and the bulk of people I know and have to associate with on a daily basis.   This is rural Texas now.   So shunning them would be hard to do.   

Outvoting them, yes.  But on the local level out here that is going to be a slow bloody process.   Would be easier if you took the wind out of their sails with a comprehensive expose' of Trump and his carnival.    One that doesn't leave them with no way out of it but eating tons of crow.   Because pride outstrips logic every time with this crowd.  Pride and fear. 

 

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5911

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Posted
18 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Good take.  But I'd have to write off my brother and the bulk of people I know and have to associate with on a daily basis.   This is rural Texas now.   So shunning them would be hard to do.   

Outvoting them, yes.  But on the local level out here that is going to be a slow bloody process.   Would be easier if you took the wind out of their sails with a comprehensive expose' of Trump and his carnival.    One that doesn't leave them with no way out of it but eating tons of crow.   Because pride outstrips logic every time with this crowd.  Pride and fear. 

 

But they won't acknowledge it.  My dad said Nixon didn't do anything wrong all the way to his grave.  They don't care.  My folks talked about what a great healthcare system we had while going to Mexico for medical/dental/optical needs and pharmaceuticals.  I pointed that out to no avail.  You can't fix the willfully stupid.  My folks weren't afraid of enlightenment, they fought it everyday. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

I am with Triplehorn.  Take the family out of the equation and he loses his inner circle of enablers, plus it destroys his business/reputation in the process.  Exposing him as not being the brightest person ever in the world will bring him down bigly.  The only people who will stand by him will be idiots like Stone who will just multiply his looniness.  The Rs will be stuck between abandoning him and being exposed by him. 

But this has to be done in a way that can't be sloughed off as being deep statey.  He has to be exposed in every way possible to reduce his support base's strength.  And it has to be done in a fair, businesslike way to keep from fanning flames of resentment.  Somehow his base needs to come to understand this guy is not a role model, he has duped them into supporting a sham.   That base is the real wound in our country, Trump is merely the scab.  How we deal with the scab will mean a lot as to how we heal the wound. 

Seems like we’re in a public safety/national security VS the rule of law/constitution/transparency paradox where compromise isn’t really an option. 

This is a horrific place for decision makers like Mueller, Rosenstein, and Barr to be in because any decision will have enormous consequences that will be second guessed by a large segment of the population. 

My personal opinion:  the decision makers should let the facts and the rule of law guide them and be as transparent as possible.  Could this approach tear the country in half?  Possibly, but if the rule of law is compromised in the name of public safety, the public is no longer safe from the dangerous actors able to circumvent the rule of law in the name of public safety.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

I am with Triplehorn.  Take the family out of the equation and he loses his inner circle of enablers, plus it destroys his business/reputation in the process.  Exposing him as not being the brightest person ever in the world will bring him down bigly.  The only people who will stand by him will be idiots like Stone who will just multiply his looniness.  The Rs will be stuck between abandoning him and being exposed by him. 

But this has to be done in a way that can't be sloughed off as being deep statey.  He has to be exposed in every way possible to reduce his support base's strength.  And it has to be done in a fair, businesslike way to keep from fanning flames of resentment.  Somehow his base needs to come to understand this guy is not a role model, he has duped them into supporting a sham.   That base is the real wound in our country, Trump is merely the scab.  How we deal with the scab will mean a lot as to how we heal the wound. 

If a few key members of Congress are added to the roundup of Trump Org family members, then you’re squarely at a threshold where House impeachment and Senate conviction is conceivable.  It has to be big to get the push.

Tomorrow is Friday, a fine day.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

The goal should not be to convince his base that Trump is wrong.  They should be completely written off and shunned from society.  The goal should be to motivate the rest of our citizens to get out and vote against Trump and any elected officials who continue to enable him.  Votes are a powerful weapon.  Frankly, they're the only weapon we have, until such time as they aren't, at which point we have gone full authoritarian mode and extreme measures will be necessary.  Let's hope it never gets to that.

Contradictory ideas.

We have to give the well-intentioned a soft landing on the right side.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8692

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hearing a lot of chatter that something is going down tomorrow but if history is any indication, it means nothing is happening.

Not that I’m the most tuned in, but the usual Twitter folks who previously successfully predicted indictments have been silent 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

How are those contradictory ideas?  I'm not seeing it.  They get to vote, too.  If they're well-intentioned and finally see the light, great.  Wasting time and breath on trying to convert them is stupid.

Can’t really come together and heal when you’re ostracizing a large segment of the population. 

It’s easier to push these folks away than work hard to pull them back to being normies.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45499

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Can’t really come together and heal when you’re ostracizing a large segment of the population. 

It’s easier to push these folks away than work hard to pull them back to being normies.

I guess I don't see how it's our responsibility to try and get through to insane people.  Party of personal responsibility and all.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted
Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I guess I don't see how it's our responsibility to try and get through to insane people.  Party of personal responsibility and all.

Because the alternative of further isolating and radicalizing them through neglect simply because it’s uncomfortable and inconvenient to talk out our differences will have catastrophic consequences.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because the alternative of further isolating and radicalizing them through neglect simply because it’s uncomfortable and inconvenient to talk out our differences will have catastrophic consequences.

No, it won't.  What will lead to catastrophic consequences is not doing every single thing possible to vote Trump and his boot-lickers out of office.

It is fundamentally impossible to sway more than a tiny minority of Trump supporters by November 2020.  It's wasted breath.  It's a horrible strategy.  

I do believe in the principles on which this country was founded, and I wouldn't advocate even the slightest legal marginalization of these people once the left has wrested control away from traitors.  They have rights.  They also have responsibilities and they have abdicated those responsibilities.  Our job is to overwhelm them at the polls, not to waste a fucking moment or a fucking dollar on "educating" them.  It simply can't be done.  It's the absolute worst possible strategy one could imagine.  I'm not surprised that some would think it a good idea, because lots of people can't even think their way through a game of checkers, but for goodness' sake, consider what you're proposing.

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