The Robert Mueller Investigation

[TwiceHorn 31283]

31 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I've got two cases in FL we're following with Medicare fraud where there's a lot of restitution due and the house is still there with the family in it.  The sentences were handed down a while ago including restitution but I'll see if I can look into what's the hold up.  Entirely possible they claimed that part of the money was legit.  FL is home to the most MC fraud in the country, by a lot.  MC fraud is infuriating to providers practicing the right way as we all get screwed. 

But I maintain, it's very easy to move and shuffle money by the time you're facing jail time.  Put in too little time and it only encourages that type of activity.  

I also agree with BT on principle, but actually enforcing that type of punishment is much easier in theory vs practice.  But I'm all about emptying the jails that are full of the drug offenders.  That's a stain on this entire country. 

Maybe the US Attorney is overwhelmed, but they usually don't fuck around and they may have discretion not to put innocent families out.  But, generous state homestead exemptions don't apply in federal criminal collections.

And restitution and fines don't require that the assets be ill-gotten gains, like a forfeiture might.

Edited March 8, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[NWBuck 8548]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Sure, fine, but prison is not the only punishment. Make him live on a living wage the rest of his life. Never let him own more than a 1994 Toyota Tercel and efficiency apartment. Strip him of all foreign travel privileges.

Wait... that's punishment? I call it "Tuesday". #SurlyPoors

[Hornius Emeritus 12420]

Here is the case that Elizabeth Warren is talking about, per Rolling Stone:


 

Conviction: Distribution of marijuana 
Sentence: Life imprisonment without parole, probation or suspension of sentence
Facility: Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola

One night in 2008, an undercover cop from the Shreveport, Louisiana police department came up to Fate Winslow, a 41-year-old homeless man, and wanted to know if he could get him “a girl.” Winslow asked if he wanted anything else, and the officer said he’d like two dime bags of weed, worth $10 each. The cop agreed to pay $25, with $5 to compensate Winslow. (“A girl” was never procured.)

Winslow says he’d been trying to get his life together, but couldn’t afford to turn down the money. “I wasn’t lookin to sell drugs. But when you homeless, every dollar counts [sic],” he writes from prison.

The dealer, who was white, wasn’t taken in – even though officers found the marked $20 bill on him. Winslow was arrested, put on trial and convicted of selling marijuana. He had three priors: A burglary when he was 17, another burglary when he was 27 (he wasn’t armed during either one) and cocaine possession at 37, so he was deemed a habitual offender.

Thanks to Louisiana’s four-strikes law, his sentence was bumped to mandatory life without parole. For playing middle-man in a tiny weed deal, Louisiana is denying him the chance to even appear before a parole board – not now that he’s 50 years old, and not if he lives until he’s 100, no matter what he does to show that he’s reformed.

“This is the world we live in,” Winslow writes. “The dealer sold the weed and gave me 5 dollars… now I got life.”

Winslow’s home for life, more commonly known as Angola, is the biggest prison in America. It’s notorious for violence, overcrowding and hosting the only remaining prison rodeo in the country, billed as “The Wildest Show in the South.”

“This is a place no one wants to be,” Winslow writes. “There was forty people in a dorm now there’s eighty-six. They put bed on top of bed but they did not add one more toilet or one more shower,” he writes. “Thanks god I am living that is ALL I can say.”

At his trial, Winslow’s life sentence was determined swiftly. After only an hour of deliberation, 10 white jurors voted guilty, while the two black jurors voted not guilty. Years later, when the Daily Beast contacted the prosecutor who’d sought the maximum sentence, he said the case didn’t “ring a bell.” A white juror who’d voted guilty also couldn’t recall much about Winslow, but told the reporter that over the years, she’d been bothered by the fact that the amount of pot was “ridiculously small.”

“Justice in Shreveport,” Winslow writes.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The ‘Otherwise Blameless Life’ of Paul Manafort

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/paul-manaforts-otherwise-blamess-life-crime/584419/

“He has lived an otherwise blameless life,” said Judge T.S. Ellis, as he sentenced Paul Manafort to just 47 months in prison on Thursday.

In an otherwise blameless life, Paul Manafort lobbied on behalf of the tobacco industry and wangled millions in tax breaks for corporations.

In an otherwise blameless life, he helped the Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos bolster his image in Washington after he assassinated his primary political opponent.

In an otherwise blameless life, he worked to keep arms flowing to the Angolan generalissimo Jonas Savimbi, a monstrous leader bankrolled by the apartheid government in South Africa. While Manafort helped portray his client as an anti-communist “freedom fighter,” Savimbi’s army planted millions of landmines in peasant fields, resulting in 15,000 amputees.

In an otherwise blameless life, Manafort was kicked out of the lobbying firm he co-founded, accused of inflating his expenses and cutting his partners out of deals.

In an otherwise blameless life, he spent a decade as the chief political adviser to a clique of former gangsters in Ukraine. This clique hoped to capture control of the state, so that it could enrich itself with government contracts and privatization agreements. This was a group closely allied with the Kremlin, and Manafort masterminded its rise to power—thereby enabling Ukraine’s slide into Vladimir Putin’s orbit.  

In otherwise blameless life, Manafort came to adopt the lifestyle and corrupt practices of his Ukrainian clients as his own.

In otherwise blameless life, he produced a public-relations campaign to convince Washington that Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was acting within his democratic rights and duties when he imprisoned his most compelling rival for power.

In an otherwise blameless life, he stood mute as Yanukovych’s police killed 130 protesters in the Maidan.

In an otherwise blameless life, he found himself nearly $20 million in debt to a Russian oligarch, Instead of honestly accounting for the money, he simply stopped responding to the oligarch messages.

In an otherwise blameless life, he tried to use his perch atop the Trump campaign to help salvage his sorry financial situation. He installed one of his proteges as the head of the pro-Trump super-PAC, Rebuilding America. His friend allegedly funnelled $125,000 from the super-PAC to pay off one of Manafort’s nagging debts.

In an otherwise blameless life, Manafort was found guilty of tax evasion on an industrial scale. Rather than paying his fair share to help fund national defense and public health, he kept his cash in Cyprus and wired it home to buy over $1 million in bespoke clothing.

In an otherwise blameless life, he disguised his income as loans, so that he could bamboozle banks into lending him money.

In an otherwise blameless life, he attempted to phone a potential witness in his trial, so that they could align their stories.  

In an otherwise blameless life, he systematically lied to Robert Mueller’s prosecutors, after he promised them his full cooperation.

In an otherwise blameless life, he acted with impunity, as if the laws never applied to him. When presented with a chance to show remorse to the court, he couldn’t find that sentiment within his being. And with Ellis’s featherweight punishment, which deviated sharply downward from the sentencing guidelines, Manafort managed to bring his life’s project to a strange completion. He had devoted his career to normalizing corruption in Washington. By the time he was caught, his extraordinary avarice had become so commonplace, that not even a federal judge could blame him for it.

[Bama Chick 28596]

After all the grodiness of all things Trump World, it takes a lot to ping my “ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS RIGHT NOW?” outrage meter but that “otherwise blameless life” bit realllllly got me fired up.

[retread 2951]

Shenanigans.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2019/03/07/the-judge-who-let-manafort-off-easy-with-47-months-is-an-arch-conservative/#6eb5b48f5256

Threw the book at some black guy who also had 'white collar' crimes.  I put white collar in quotes because it's obvious Manafort has blood on his hands.  Really shocking from this 78 yo fuckstick.  I'm sure he's at home enjoying some Fox News right now.  

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

It's fun to talk about being on Brisket's ledge, while secretly thinking these fucks are going to get theirs, but this shit legitimately pushes me onto the ledge. Why has god forsaken us? I'll be drunk when the bomb hits, and I hope I'm at ground zero. Y'all M'fers can duke it out with the zombies. 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

15 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2019/03/07/the-judge-who-let-manafort-off-easy-with-47-months-is-an-arch-conservative/#6eb5b48f5256

Threw the book at some black guy who also had 'white collar' crimes.  I put white collar in quotes because it's obvious Manafort has blood on his hands.  Really shocking from this 78 yo fuckstick.  I'm sure he's at home enjoying some Fox News right now.  

Not sure that's a good comparison.  The guidelines range for Jefferson was 27-33 years. https://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2009/11/former-congressman-william-jefferson-scheduled-to-learn-sentencing-fate-today.html

[RomaVicta 29794]

Just saw the sentence. Outrageous. They should have strapped him to his wheelchair and rolled him down the stairs. Call Johnny Udo from Kiss of Death.

 

[Zavala 1384]

777 days dudes

https://www.stevemoxham.com/articles/trump-israel-seven.htm

Donald Trump met with Vladimir Putin for the first time on 7/7/17 when President Putin was exactly 777 months old to the day.

[Zavala 1384]

2 hours ago, retread said:

Try 'forgetting' to list foreign contacts on your next SF-86 form 4 different times and then see if you still have Top Secret clearance like the Kush.

Just one of the many perks of being the anti christ

[NWBuck 8548]

8 minutes ago, Zavala said:

777 days dudes

https://www.stevemoxham.com/articles/trump-israel-seven.htm

Donald Trump met with Vladimir Putin for the first time on 7/7/17 when President Putin was exactly 777 months old to the day.

Boys, Stryper tried to warn us...

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure that's a good comparison.  The guidelines range for Jefferson was 27-33 years. https://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2009/11/former-congressman-william-jefferson-scheduled-to-learn-sentencing-fate-today.html

Yep.  Followed close on one case and didn’t at all on the other.  Am I missing something?

 

Of course there’s a million intricacies in each case but on the surface it looks shitty.  

[Bruh Man 3160]

 

[zork 629]

9 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This case was bank fraud and tax fraud 

Next week, obstruction, conspiracy to defraud the US, conspiracy to obstruct, FARA violations.

Mueller is all but certain to request that sentence be served consecutively 

Mueller held that card to see how this sentencing went.

Statement from his lawyer:

Quote

...

He added: “There is absolutely no evidence that Paul Manafort was involved with any collusion with any government official from Russia.”

 

[DixonHur 11226]

Is there a mechanism for another court to overturn a sentence once it's handed down?

I'm with Bama, my outrage meter has become pretty jaded over the past couple of years, but this seems unbelievably corrupt.  I think the House should open an investigation into this judge and his motivations. 

[NBMisha 224]

6 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

It's fun to talk about being on Brisket's ledge, while secretly thinking these fucks are going to get theirs, but this shit legitimately pushes me onto the ledge. Why has god forsaken us? I'll be drunk when the bomb hits, and I hope I'm at ground zero. Y'all M'fers can duke it out with the zombies. 

I saw god at the club dining room last night, he was hosting a big table.  Seemed to be having an all right time.  I think he was having a manhatten for openers.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

Even the judge noted that manafort didn’t apologize. If he had, would the sentence have been time served plus an apology from the court? I assume the no apology was a calculated move in a future pardon request of trump.

[Cajun 11675]

Quote

we got hella people/they got helicopters

they got the bombs and we got the, we got the guillotine

you better run

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

We could really use a felony Friday today. 

[horncyclist 1386]

This is a nice statement of where we are:

 

 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

3 hours ago, zork said:

Statement from his lawyer:

 

wrong trial

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

Just now, pyrohornIII said:

wrong trial

Yeah, I think he's conveniently forgetting the whole passing campaign polling data to a russian agent thingy.  No biggie.

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

Judge Jackson in DC I hope will be less lenient 

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We could really use a felony Friday today. 

It ain’t happening. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Rich white people in America don't get punished. Everyone expecting rich white people to be punished need to learn that lesson at some point in their lives.

[XYZ 2154]

That’s rich that congressfolk express dismay at the un-equal-ness of the law when they set themselves up so that insider trading laws don’t apply to them.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

8 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yep.  Followed close on one case and didn’t at all on the other.  Am I missing something?

 

Of course there’s a million intricacies in each case but on the surface it looks shitty.  

Well Jefferson's "recommended" sentence was another decade longer than Manafort's, and apparently, during sentencing the "intended loss" from an unconsummated fraudulent loan was thrown out as an enhancement, further reducing Manafort's guidelines range.  It really looks like Ellis is fairly consistent in giving about half to white collar criminals.  And, ultimately, Jefferson got 5.5, released by Ellis.

You're right about the intricacies, everything is apples and potatoes except in the most gross ways.  "About half" seems really about right for Ellis.

In a lot of ways, I respect Ellis for ignoring the guidelines; more judges should.

Edited March 8, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Even the judge noted that manafort didn’t apologize. If he had, would the sentence have been time served plus an apology from the court? I assume the no apology was a calculated move in a future pardon request of trump.

A showing of "acceptance of responsibility" under the Sentencing Guidelines is a two-level reduction in the Guidelines calculus.  Can be worth a couple of years.  Other than that, and making somebody feel good (how do you measure the sincerity of such an apology?  how do you know its not "sorry I got caught"?), it's meaningless.

[Horn Dog 9674]

What you libtards don’t seem to understand is that conservative judges are just calling balls and strikes.  They strictly inforce the constitution and follow guidlines.  They do not let their personal views influence their decisions.

[Francisco 2.0 32342]

2 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

What you libtards don’t seem to understand is that conservative judges are just calling balls and strikes.  They strictly inforce the constitution and follow guidlines.  They do not let their personal views influence their decisions.

Que "unelected activist judges" rant forthcoming.

 

Oh, wait.

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

1 hour ago, horncyclist said:

This is a nice statement of where we are:

 

 

Let's clarify:  what exactly do we know Trump did to FACILITATE Putin's attack on America?  Is this a reference to the polling data or something else?

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

23 minutes ago, XYZ said:

That’s rich that congressfolk express dismay at the un-equal-ness of the law when they set themselves up so that insider trading laws don’t apply to them.

👏👏👏 corruption runs deep. 

[horncyclist 1386]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let's clarify:  what exactly do we know Trump did to FACILITATE Putin's attack on America?  Is this a reference to the polling data or something else?

Well, that and I would add his efforts to obstruct the counterintelligence probe into the continued attacks. Continued denial that there was even in any influence. This is setting aside all the meetings, roger stone/wikileaks coordination, polling data transfer, knowledge of Russia's efforts to support his candidacy (see Trump Tower meeting invitation email: "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump." ) It's all out there, but no one's doing a very good job of putting it together. My hope is that synthesis is what we get from the Mueller report. 

If this were any other case, any reasonable prosecutor would feel comfortable connecting the dots and bringing a case, even with just what we know publicly. And there's zero chance Mueller doesn't know more than what's been revealed publicly. 

[bolverk 29401]

 

20 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Que "unelected activist judges" rant forthcoming.

 

Oh, wait.

 

 

Love you, man, but it's cue not to be confused with queue which is what I think you meant to write. Not to be pedantic but queue is from the French meaning a tail or a line. Some argue that queue is part of the original phrase for BBQ: barbe à queue (which can be translated as "from beard to tail" as a cooking method).

themoreyouknow.jpg

Edited March 8, 2019 by bolverk

[Fozzz 152]

This shit is quite humorous. 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

Love you, man, but it's cue not to be confused with queue which is what I think you meant to write. Not to be pedantic but queue is from the French meaning a tail or a line. Some argue that queue is part of the original phrase for BBQ: barbe à queue (which can be translated as "from beard to tail" as a cooking method).

themoreyouknow.jpg

Or maybe he meant "cue," because it actually makes more sense to cue it than to queue it up.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

This shit is quite humorous. 

Yes.  Just side-splittingly funny.  

[horncyclist 1386]

Adding to my thought a second ago. I don't know there's been enough discussion on how significant this statement is in the June 3, 2016 email from Goldstone to Don. Jr:

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin."

All of this in one sentence:

(1) Makes clear its the Russian GOVERNMENT that is supporting Trump;

(2) Suggests that as part of that they're doing shady shit to support Trump;

(3) Shows that the Trump campaign, by that date at the latest, knew of such support;

(4) Assumes prior knowledge by Don Jr. of such efforts by the Russian government (so they likely knew even earlier).

It's incredibly damning. And we know that meeting actually took place. The email and the meeting alone are enough to prove the elements of conspiracy. What I have difficulty understanding is if it's this clear that the Trump campaign was activitely working in coordination with Russia, whether as part of an overt agreement or tacitly, why is it taking Mueller so long to move against Trump? Especially when he's continuing to act like a possible Russian agent?

 

 

[bolverk 29401]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Or maybe he meant "cue," because it actually makes more sense to cue it than to queue it up.

I know he meant cue but he wrote que, which I think he confused with queue which, in turn, is commonly confused with cue. Fuck it. I'll stop now. I majored in French and can't help myself sometimes.

Carry on.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I know he meant cue but he wrote que, which I think he confused with queue which, in turn, is commonly confused with cue. Fuck it. I'll stop now. I majored in French and can't help myself sometimes.

Carry on.

Triggered my spelling OCD also.

[triplehorn 2664]

59 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

It ain’t happening. 

Warrants served as pre-dawn no-knock raids seem to serve the purpose of preserving evidence or preventing absconding.  We’re at point now where those two concerns are probably not so relevant for any major outstanding targets. I’d give it until later this afternoon.  But lord, how long can this this go on ?

[RomaVicta 29794]

10 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2019/03/07/the-judge-who-let-manafort-off-easy-with-47-months-is-an-arch-conservative/#6eb5b48f5256

Threw the book at some black guy who also had 'white collar' crimes.  I put white collar in quotes because it's obvious Manafort has blood on his hands.  Really shocking from this 78 yo fuckstick.  I'm sure he's at home enjoying some Fox News right now.  

How many pee tapes are there?

This reeks of at least collusion in some old, rich white man sort of a way. It's hard to believe it's not outright corruption. Kavanaugh surely seemed to have gotten some unusual benefits. Why should we believe he's the only one? 

It would be nice to have this scandal reveal some part of our system that is not rotten.

My muse about purging white men from positions of power for ten years becomes more concrete everyday. I'd miss my chance to be a president or federal judge on the take, but I'll just have to live with that.

[David Dennison 18659]

6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Is there a mechanism for another court to overturn a sentence once it's handed down?

I'm with Bama, my outrage meter has become pretty jaded over the past couple of years, but this seems unbelievably corrupt.  I think the House should open an investigation into this judge and his motivations. 

Yes. The government can appeal, but in this case, Mueller would probably need the OK of the Attorney General.

18 U.S. Code § 3742. Review of a sentence

(b) Appeal by the Government.—The Government may file a notice of appeal in the district court for review of an otherwise final sentence if the sentence—

(1) was imposed in violation of law;

(2) was imposed as a result of an incorrect application of the sentencing guidelines;

(3) is less than the sentence specified in the applicable guideline range to the extent that the sentence includes a lesser fine or term of imprisonment, probation, or supervised release than the minimum established in the guideline range, or includes a less limiting condition of probation or supervised release under section 3563(b)(6) or (b)(11) 1 than the minimum established in the guideline range;

 

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

18 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yes. The government can appeal, but in this case, Mueller would probably need the OK of the Attorney General.

18 U.S. Code § 3742. Review of a sentence

(b) Appeal by the Government.—The Government may file a notice of appeal in the district court for review of an otherwise final sentence if the sentence—

(1) was imposed in violation of law;

(2) was imposed as a result of an incorrect application of the sentencing guidelines;

(3) is less than the sentence specified in the applicable guideline range to the extent that the sentence includes a lesser fine or term of imprisonment, probation, or supervised release than the minimum established in the guideline range, or includes a less limiting condition of probation or supervised release under section 3563(b)(6) or (b)(11) 1 than the minimum established in the guideline range;

 

I’ll just say it was on low end and sucks but starting this fight will only make things worse.  I’ll take twicehorn at his word and let more of this play out.  

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I’ll just say it was on low end and sucks but starting this fight will only make things worse.  I’ll take twicehorn at his word and let more of this play out.  

Agreed. Let's see what happens next week in DC. I also think Manafort is looking at more charges.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

2 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Adding to my thought a second ago. I don't know there's been enough discussion on how significant this statement is in the June 3, 2016 email from Goldstone to Don. Jr:

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin."

All of this in one sentence:

(1) Makes clear its the Russian GOVERNMENT that is supporting Trump;

(2) Suggests that as part of that they're doing shady shit to support Trump;

(3) Shows that the Trump campaign, by that date at the latest, knew of such support;

(4) Assumes prior knowledge by Don Jr. of such efforts by the Russian government (so they likely knew even earlier).

It's incredibly damning. And we know that meeting actually took place. The email and the meeting alone are enough to prove the elements of conspiracy. What I have difficulty understanding is if it's this clear that the Trump campaign was activitely working in coordination with Russia, whether as part of an overt agreement or tacitly, why is it taking Mueller so long to move against Trump? Especially when he's continuing to act like a possible Russian agent?

 

 

Not to mention that the president admitted obstruction of justice on NATIONAL TELEVISION over 2 years ago.

[Nivek 16860]

Delete

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

20 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Fair enough.  I mean, from the same account today:

 

That is, after all, speaking the language of "hard evidence." 

I anxiously await finding out if the evidence was waaayyy over-promised or not.  It's either completely made up shit, or it's sourced somehow.  My bet is that it's not been made up, only because so much is already known and so many overlapping layers of sourcing and reporting exist. 

When the scooby gang coalesced in that wild span of the Spring of 2017, that's when people emerged who suddenly seemed to know about a lot of shit going down.  What they were reporting (excepting some weird Mensch tangents) has not only remained unchanged since that time, but also continues to surface in MSM as 'new reporting' with verification today.

The people who tweet this crap making empty predictions are really no worse than Q anon types