The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Gil Bang 25898]

Curious timing.  Just in case anyone forgets that most prosecutors can be grandstanding cunts.

Yeah, Manafort needs to die in prison but announcing this right now is a bit too much

[RomaVicta 29792]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’ve always suspected whatever Manafort gets charged with are likely charges Trump could get hit with except on a much bigger scale.

I hadn't thought of that until the NY indictment occurred. This is likely a road map for Trump, his kids, and associates.

If Stone goes down, maybe this will actually be a deterrent to breaking these laws and thinking your risk of time in jail is worth the money.  I don't have the boldness of a thief. I don't know that there is any amount of money that I would take to stay in a penitentiary for even a year.

Edited March 13, 2019 by RomaVicta

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

3 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Curious timing.  Just in case anyone forgets that most prosecutors can be grandstanding cunts.

The timing is calculated. NY has a double jeopardy law preventing prosecution at state level for federal crimes. Waited until sentencing was over probably to ensure no overlap in criminal charges

[TwiceHorn 31280]

4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Can one of the surly lawyers address the double jeopardy questions with these new charges?

Quote

CPL §40.20 states that: “A person may not be twice prosecuted for the same offense.”

CPL §40.30 states that: “Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person ‘is prosecuted’ for an offense, within the meaning of section 40.20, when he is charged therewith by an accusatory instrument filed in a court of this state or of any jurisdiction within the United States, and when the action either:

(a) Terminates in a conviction upon a plea of guilty; or

(b) Proceeds to the trial stage and a jury has been impaneled and sworn or, in the case of a trial by the court without a jury, a witness is sworn.”

The law is subject to repeal, but has not been yet. https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/03/12/ny-lawmakers-expected-to-pass-bill-closing-double-jeopardy-loophole/

To the extent they overlap with charges in ED Va, they're going away.  There was no need to delay the state indictments, as the scope of jeopardy was determined when the ED Va trial commenced.

Edited March 13, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, Gil Bang said:

Yeah, Manafort needs to die in prison but announcing this right now is a bit too much

 

An argument can be made that they’ve been sitting on this for a while but didn’t want the state charges to influence the sentencing in the federal cases. 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The law is subject to repeal, but has not been yet. https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/03/12/ny-lawmakers-expected-to-pass-bill-closing-double-jeopardy-loophole/

To the extent they overlap with charges in ED Va, they're going away.  There was no need to delay the state indictments, as the scope of jeopardy was determined when the ED Va trial commenced.

Interesting caveat is that there were like 8 counts (if I remember correctly) that the jury in EDVA returned a hung verdict. Those would not be subject to the double jeopardy law, I don’t think 

[yaqdum 182]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I hadn't thought of that until the NY indictment occurred. This is likely a road map for Trump, his kids, and associates.

If Stone goes down, maybe this will actually be a deterrent to breaking these laws and thinking your risk of time in jail is worth the money.  I don't have the boldness of a thief. I don't know that there is any amount of money that I would take to stay in a penitentiary for even a year night.

pretty sure that's what you meant to say.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Sometimes I think we’d be better off as a society if every citizen spent one day in prison between their 18th and 19th birthday. 

Sometimes.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[yaqdum 182]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There was no need to delay the state indictments, as the scope of jeopardy was determined when the ED Va trial commenced.

hey, i've got a fun idea.  let's all guess what the deuce would have said had the indictments been unsealed back then.

rule1: has to make the country sound like real creep outfit.

no other rules.

Edited March 13, 2019 by yaqdum

[TwiceHorn 31280]

9 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Interesting caveat is that there were like 8 counts (if I remember correctly) that the jury in EDVA returned a hung verdict. Those would not be subject to the double jeopardy law, I don’t think 

I think this takes care of that:

Quote

(b) Proceeds to the trial stage and a jury has been impaneled and sworn or, in the case of a trial by the court without a jury, a witness is sworn.”

The NY indictment doesn't contain much detail, but from the dates, there appears to be substantial overlap.  NY Indictment  ED Va Indictment

There is still some room to argue, I suppose, that the NY bank/mortgage fraud crime differs from the federal one.

Cyrus Vance is a chucklefuck, so no amount of stupidity from the Manhattan DA would surprise me.  See, e.g. Abacus Bank.

Edited March 13, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[triplehorn 2664]

Is there any reason to think that the SCO, US Attys, State AG's etc. are NOT communicating around the substance and timing of their respective investigations charges ?  

[jimmyjazz 45558]

21 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

That's too bad, that guy can't catch a break.

He's lived a largely blameless life.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

 

[David Dennison 18658]

Not a good day for Paul.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sometimes I think we’d be better off as a society if every citizen spent one day in prison between their 18th and 19th birthday. 

Sometimes.

I did that.  I think it helped.  Of course, for good measure I tossed in another couple before 25. 

Never again. 

[The Royal We 3065]

Me upon hearing this news of more indictments.

 

[triplehorn 2664]

8 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

 

He should stick with Fed.  State has drug-resistant gonorrhea.

[Grandioso 2592]

[TwiceHorn 31280]

41 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

An argument can be made that they’ve been sitting on this for a while but didn’t want the state charges to influence the sentencing in the federal cases. 

Chooky mostly nailed it, I think.  Might have been interesting if Vance waited until the double jeopardy statute was repealed, but I don't think he could hold his water (and thirst for attention) that long.

[Yuk 1509]

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

50 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I hadn't thought of that until the NY indictment occurred. This is likely a road map for Trump, his kids, and associates.

 

You have to assume that some indictments will be unsealed the day after Trump is out of office. His best path will be dying in office in late 2020/2024, or at least having Pence follow him as POTUS to allow for a federal pardon.

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

Based on the aftermath of the mortgage crisis, all the long sentences doled out because of it, and his sentences so far I bet Manafort gets at least an extra week added to his time in the pen.

[Eskimohorn 5615]

He should stick with Fed.  State has drug-resistant gonorrhea.

Manafort eats drug-resistant gonorrhea for breakfast.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You have to assume that some indictments will be unsealed the day after Trump is out of office. His best path will be dying in office in late 2020/2024, or at least having Pence follow him as POTUS to allow for a federal pardon.

Which is exactly why he won't step down willingly. In 2020, or 2024.

He'd be stepping from the White House into court. The Presidency is the only thing keeping him from currently being in jail/prison. Anyone that thinks he will willingly leave office hasn't been paying attention. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

these federal sentences seem pretty...light...for the crimes committed. 

but he's a white dude committing white collar crime, so whatever, i guess

[Chooky 13302]

48 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

An argument can be made that they’ve been sitting on this for a while but didn’t want the state charges to influence the sentencing in the federal cases. 

An even stronger argument can be made that Cyrus Vance is indeed a preening, disingenuous cunt who is notoriously more concerned with self advancement and political optics than the rule of law.  Recently he has been heavily criticized for aggressively hammering to stuff poor people into prison while being excessively lenient on wealthy, white collar criminals.  So, of course, that means this particular cunt has been eagerly awaiting the next high profile, white collar crime he can relentlessly make into a spectacle to balance the scales of his flawed personality.    

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You have to assume that some indictments will be unsealed the day after Trump is out of office. His best path will be dying in office in late 2020/2024, or at least having Pence follow him as POTUS to allow for a federal pardon.

He should move it up to today, just to be safe.

[David Dennison 18658]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

these federal sentences seem pretty...light...for the crimes committed. 

but he's a white dude committing white collar crime, so whatever, i guess

I think it sounds pretty harsh for a 70 year old man in poor health.

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, Chooky said:

An even stronger argument can be made that Cyrus Vance is indeed a preening, disingenuous cunt who is notoriously more concerned with self advancement and political optics than the rule of law.  Recently he has been heavily criticized for aggressively hammering to stuff poor people into prison while being excessively lenient on wealthy, white collar criminals.  So, of course, that means this particular cunt has been eagerly awaiting the next high profile, white collar crime he can relentlessly make into a spectacle to balance the scales of his flawed personality.    

Recently he has been criticized for being partial to group A.  Now, he's apparently making an effort to show he's not partial to group A, so we should condemn him for that.

[Native Horn 3492]

Just now, David Dennison said:

I think it sounds pretty harsh for a 70 year old man in poor health.

 

You're probably not serious, but boo fucking hoo.

[triplehorn 2664]

 

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You have to assume that some indictments will be unsealed the day after Trump is out of office. His best path will be dying in office in late 2020/2024, or at least having Pence follow him as POTUS to allow for a federal pardon.

Pence was one of the first to lawyer up after the inauguration. 

Rats in a maze.

[Chooky 13302]

1 minute ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Recently he has been criticized for being partial to group A.  Now, he's apparently making an effort to show he's not partial to group A, so we should condemn him for that.

Or condemn him for not being professionally level from the start rather than scurrying like a broken pendulum to smooth over the blemishes.

[Grandioso 2592]

2 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Which is exactly why he won't step down willingly. In 2020, or 2024.

He'd be stepping from the White House into court. The Presidency is the only thing keeping him from currently being in jail/prison. Anyone that thinks he will willingly leave office hasn't been paying attention. 

This is exactly why Putin has to stay in power forever. Gary Kasparov referred to it as the "golden cage," e.g., the privileged, aristocratic lifestyle that a despot can never leave lest he be jailed by his successor or offed by his enemies.

[hobbes2702 12844]

5 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

This is exactly why Putin has to stay in power forever. Gary Kasparov referred to it as the "golden cage," e.g., the privileged, aristocratic lifestyle that a despot can never leave lest he be jailed by his successor or offed by his enemies.

Anyone who hasn’t listened to Kasparov on Preet Bahara’s podcast is doing themselves a disservice. He really has an incredible mind.

[WhatTheBuck 28712]

29 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Which is exactly why he won't step down willingly. In 2020, or 2024.

He'd be stepping from the White House into court. The Presidency is the only thing keeping him from currently being in jail/prison. Anyone that thinks he will willingly leave office hasn't been paying attention. 

Trump sees men like Putin and Xi as his peers on the world stage. He believes he belongs in that club. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

24 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I think it sounds pretty harsh for a 70 year old man in poor health.

 

He'll show up to court in NYC strapped to a gurney with an IV and an ECG machine. 

[jimmyjazz 45558]

1 minute ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

He'll show up to court in NYC strapped to a gurney with an IV and an ECG machine. 

That would be silly . . . he has no heart.

[hayden_horn 11360]

27 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I think it sounds pretty harsh for a 70 year old man in poor health.

 

look, i think sentencing guidelines are overly harsh. but "don't get caught until you are old and infirm" doesn't really work for me. if a 35 year old man faced the same charges as manafort, does he get 7.5 years total? why not?

if it's 7.5 at 70, then it should be 7.5 at 35. but that's not the case. so they are going easy on the old white man because he's old and in poor health. boo fucking hoo.

[triplehorn 2664]

Today, Trump has less than two years, and his Kiddos likely have less than that, before they face multiple felony State charges and years in prison.  RICO (enterprise corruption statutes in NY) with asset forfeiture will also be front and center.

Today, it's also clear pardons are rendered useless for these cornered scumbags.

[Dbeasy 14969]

 

This just made my day and restored a small bit of faith for me in this country.

[yaqdum 182]

42 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Which is exactly why he won't step down willingly. In 2020, or 2024.

He'd be stepping from the White House into court. The Presidency is the only thing keeping him from currently being in jail/prison. Anyone that thinks he will willingly leave office hasn't been paying attention. 

i'm sure we will have a plan.

[Dbeasy 14969]

Yeah, Manafort needs to die in prison but announcing this right now is a bit too much

Bullshit. This country needs some justice for once.

[Grandioso 2592]

Just now, triplehorn said:

asset forfeiture

I've said it before, but my dream is that the federal government turns Trump Tower into a Muslim American history and cultural center and/or US Headquarters for refugee and asylum seeker assistance.

[retread 2951]

Jarvanka can curate the presidential library

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

which hopefully will lead to "Jarvanka was here."

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

47 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Which is exactly why he won't step down willingly. In 2020, or 2024.

He'd be stepping from the White House into court. The Presidency is the only thing keeping him from currently being in jail/prison. Anyone that thinks he will willingly leave office hasn't been paying attention. 

You are discounting another possibility although slim.  Trump could make a deal to get out of all state and federal charges if he agrees to resign.  

It would be his best exit strategy if something like that were on the table.   

Should a deal like that even be offered? 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

bottom of page

Edited March 13, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[jimmyjazz 45558]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You are discounting another possibility although slim.  Trump could make a deal to get out of all state and federal charges if he agrees to resign.  

It would be his best exit strategy if something like that were on the table.   

Should a deal like that even be offered? 

Why on earth would Mueller or other Federal/state attorneys offer such a deal?  It smacks of politics.  They are law enforcement.  Enforce the fucking law.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You are discounting another possibility although slim.  Trump could make a deal to get out of all state and federal charges if he agrees to resign.  

It would be his best exit strategy if something like that were on the table.   

 Should a deal like that even be offered? 

Seems like you'd need 51 signatures on it, because he probably has legal liability in every state.