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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Other than you skipping over my whole paragraph about how this info typically comes from “insiders,” sure.

The media has long been protected when they publish leaked information. Here, we’re not taking about leaked info - we’re talking about stolen info, which was stolen by a hostile foreign power.

If the Russians had stolen info about our nuclear defenses during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then provided that to the NYT with a note signed “love, the KGB,” I suspect most folks would have been quite enraged at the NYT if it published that information.

That’s an important distinction here. The call isn’t “coming from inside the house!” It’s coming from an outside, hostile power.

The distinction is important in many ways. Whether it’s important under the law remains to be seen.

That is why I included the Snowden example. Snowden has been touted as a hostile toward the US. The guardian and Glenn greenwald published info they knew came from a state enemy. Should the guardian be punished?

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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’d say State sponsorship is a very clear line that separates RT/Sputnik from NYT with regard to FARA violations.

Jury is still out on Fox, their London offices were just raided. 

While not a media site or technically state sponsored, Mike Flynn was in violation of FARA laws while he was acting National Security Advisor.  It's a big deal punishable by up to 5yr in prison and 10k fine . 

What kind of protections are relinquished when an individual or media outlet is forced to register under FARA ?  Can those violations be retroactive based on determination ? 

Here's the DOJ's FAQ page on FARA:  DoJ FARA FAQ

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In the aftermath of the Comey memo, Matt Tait looked at the redacted text and said it indicated Flynn had a FISA warrant against him and Comey confirmed it to Priebus. I posted the tweet on this thread. 

Tait just changed his mind based on something pointed out to him regarding the level of classification on the document. He now thinks there wasn't a FISA warrant on Flynn disclosed at the point. If there was, the memo would be classified higher. 

 

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8 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

How can you have protection for trade secrets if they can be so easily laundered by throwing them up on a website?    Wikileaks conducted no review of the materials for public interest; they purely transmitted stolen internal documents without any diligence.  That they are a Russian intelligence cutout is almost beside the point.  They didn't execute any press function. 

There is no protection for trade secrets.

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Wikileaks does create a risk of making some bad - or at least suboptimal - Law.
 
First, is it an actual instrument of “the press?” There’s been much litigation of this point in these days of citizen journalists. I tend to lean strongly to the side of “if you’re recording or gathering info to share with the public, you’re performing a journalistic function.” The problem is...imagine a straight up, paid FSB agent is over here doing that. He’s nabbing secret military documents. He’s getting intel on planned troop movements. He’s got someone tapping the President’s phone. And he passes that along to his buddy, FSB agent 2, who publishes it on his blog, which gets tweeted and retweeted far and wide (helped by Russian bots, of course). Is that a journalistic organization? Or is it a foreign intel and disinformation operation?
 
Second, kind of what I said at the end. We generally allow the press to publish info brought to them, even when the provider obtained the info illegally (leaks, pentagon papers, exposes of corporate wrongdoing, etc). Almost always, these folks are “insiders,” or at least Americans. What about now, when the party that obtained the info is a hostile foreign intelligence service?
 
How would we feel if an FSB agent stole the info I outlined above, and instead of giving it to his FSB buddy for his blog, he delivered it the the NYT. And they published it, knowing who he was and how he got it?
 
I think it comes down to a question of whether Wikileaks is a press organization, or a foreign intel mouthpiece. And I imagine that’s gonna be fuzzy as shit.
 
I suspect that the real solution is, as it has always been, extra-legal. When foreign intel activities overreach acceptable boundaries of espionage, some folks need to wake up dead. Big problem though...when your CINC is compromised by the very hostile power that we’re dealing with...yeah...
 
Back to my scotch on the deck of the titanic.
 
I wanna have your baby
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Flight records show Trump spent night in Russia, contradicting what he told Comey: report

President Trump spent the night in Moscow the night before the Miss Universe contest in November 2013, contradicting what he told former FBI Director James Comey.

Flight records of Trump’s trip to Russia obtained by Bloomberg confirm Trump’s overnight stay at the Ritz-Carlton in Moscow.

In the memos from Comey released last week, which the former FBI director kept during his time in office to document his interactions with the president, Comey writes that Trump twice told him that hadn't stayed the night in Russia during the trip.
According to the flight records, Trump flew to Moscow on a private jet owned by a business partner, arriving in Moscow early in the morning on Friday, Nov. 8. He left the city early Sunday morning.

Despite Trump’s reported denials to Comey, it was known that Trump stayed overnight due to social media posts and Trump’s former bodyguard’s testimony to Congress that a Russian offered to “send five women” to Trump’s hotel room. Trump reportedly laughed off and declined the offer.

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^^^ That's the kind of shit I like to see on this thread.  I doubt Manafort's motion to suppress works because the law favors the government, probably a bit too much.  But, from an objective standpoint, it seems rather alarming how much the government can seize on a showing that there is probable cause that you committed a crime.

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23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

^^^ That's the kind of shit I like to see on this thread.  I doubt Manafort's motion to suppress works because the law favors the government, probably a bit too much.  But, from an objective standpoint, it seems rather alarming how much the government can seize on a showing that there is probable cause that you committed a crime.

I keep going back to the quote from the guy that said in 20 years there were very few of these and every time the lawyer went to jail. It must have been pretty damning to pass muster.

Edited by cactusflinthead
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7 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I keep going back to the quote from the guy that said in 20 years there were very few of these and every time the lawyer went to jail. It must have been pretty damning to pass muster.

This is the Manafort warrant, or one of them.  Not the Cohen deal. Because Manafort isn't an attorney, it doesn't present quite the same issues (although, because the search/seizure was so broad, they did have to use a "filter team" to cull for attorney-client privileged materials). In this particular instance, they seized or imaged every single electronic memory device in his house.  Down to a couple of ipods.  Not ipads, ipods.

 

That's a little startling.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Mueller adds another prosecutor: Andrew D. Goldstein

NYT: Manhattan Prosecutor Joins Inquiry Into Russian Meddling in Election

Spoiler

One federal prosecutor in Manhattan is being promoted to become the new chief of the public corruption unit, while another is departing to join Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

The new chief of the corruption unit in Manhattan is Tatiana R. Martins, who in 2015 helped to convict Dean G. Skelos, the Long Island Republican who was the majority leader of the State Senate until shortly after his arrest that year.

Ms. Martins, the deputy chief of the unit, succeeds Andrew D. Goldstein, who will join Mr. Mueller’s team after having led the public corruption unit for about a year.

As a line prosecutor, Mr. Goldstein was a member of the team that in 2015 won the conviction of Sheldon Silver, a Manhattan Democrat who had been the longtime speaker of the State Assembly.

Mr. Goldstein is the first prosecutor to join Mr. Mueller’s team from the United States attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York, an office known for its pursuit of public corruption, white-collar crime and Wall Street fraud, the office confirmed on Friday.

This guy checks all the boxes for what the SCO is drilling into: justice.gov

Quote

Howard S. Master and Andrew D. Goldstein are recognized for their investigation and prosecution of the CityTime case, the largest municipal fraud and kickback scheme in history.  Through a dogged investigation that involved tracing payments through more than 150 foreign and domestic accounts, poring through hundreds of thousands of emails and project documents, interviewing more than 100 witnesses, and securing cooperation from two key insiders, Mr. Master and Mr. Goldstein were able to prove that the City of New York’s project manager and an executive of one of the nation’s largest government contractors defrauded the City, collected tens of millions of dollars in kickbacks, and laundered their proceeds through an intricate web of corrupt subcontractors and shell accounts. The prosecution resulted in eight convictions, a deferred prosecution agreement with the contractor, and record forfeitures of over $550 million.

 

Edited by triplehorn
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5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Mueller adds another prosecutor: Andrew D. Godlstein

NYT: Manhattan Prosecutor Joins Inquiry Into Russian Meddling in Election

  Reveal hidden contents

One federal prosecutor in Manhattan is being promoted to become the new chief of the public corruption unit, while another is departing to join Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

The new chief of the corruption unit in Manhattan is Tatiana R. Martins, who in 2015 helped to convict Dean G. Skelos, the Long Island Republican who was the majority leader of the State Senate until shortly after his arrest that year.

Ms. Martins, the deputy chief of the unit, succeeds Andrew D. Goldstein, who will join Mr. Mueller’s team after having led the public corruption unit for about a year.

As a line prosecutor, Mr. Goldstein was a member of the team that in 2015 won the conviction of Sheldon Silver, a Manhattan Democrat who had been the longtime speaker of the State Assembly.

Mr. Goldstein is the first prosecutor to join Mr. Mueller’s team from the United States attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York, an office known for its pursuit of public corruption, white-collar crime and Wall Street fraud, the office confirmed on Friday.

This guy checks all the boxes for what the SCO is drilling into: justice.gov

 

 

 

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Literally a Collusion Meeting 

83D736E7-73DD-43EC-8A21-24C371769F7A_zps

http://www.newsweek.com/fbi-raided-manafort-over-records-trump-tower-meeting-russians-mueller-confirms-898389

A new court filing by Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel confirms that Paul Manafort was raided by the FBI to look for documents relating to the Trump Tower meeting in June 2016 with Russian lobbyists, which was brokered by Donald Trump Jr.

Manafort, President Donald Trump’s former campaign manager, is indicted on five counts, among them conspiracy against the United States, money laundering, and acting as an agent of a foreign government without registering as such. The 69-year-old political consultant made tens of millions of dollars by working for the Ukrainian government, then controlled by the Kremlin ally Viktor Yanukovych.

He attended the Trump Tower meeting, at which a Russian lawyer with links to the Kremlin and a former Soviet counterintelligence officer were also present, while running the presidential campaign. They allegedly promised dirt on Trump’s rival, Hillary Clinton.

According to the latest court filing by the Mueller inquiry, which is defending a warrant attached to a raid on Manafort’s home in July 2017, part of what the FBI were hunting for were “communications, records, documents, and other files involving any of the attendees of the June 9, 2016 meeting at Trump Tower, as well as Aras and [Emin] Agalarov.”

Investigators were also searching for documents relating to Manafort and his associates' financial dealings, bank accounts, payments made by foreign individuals, and work on behalf of foreign entities, such as governments or officials.

The Agalarovs, a wealthy Azeri family, helped arrange the meeting by connecting the Trump campaign with the Russian lawyer, though they are not believed to have been present at it.

Details of what exactly happened at the meeting are murky amid contradictory statements by those who were involved. Mueller is investigating suspicions of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government to undermine American democracy.

There were at least eight people in attendance at the meeting. They include Manafort; Donald Trump Jr, the president's eldest son; Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law; Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Russian lawyer and lobbyist with close ties to the Kremlin; Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian-American lawyer and former Soviet counterintelligence officer; Rob Goldstone, the publicist of Emin Agalarov, who is connected to Trump Jr's attorney and Ike Kaveladze, a Georgian-American executive at Aras Agalarov's real estate company.

Trump Jr released publicly his email correspondence with Goldstone after reports of the meeting’s existence first emerged in mid-2017.

Goldstone told Trump Jr that the Aras Agalarov had met with the crown prosecutor of Russia who “offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump—helped along by Aras and Emin.”

Trump Jr replied that "if it’s what you say I love it," and sought more information ahead of a proposed meeting.

President Trump denied any knowledge of the meeting taking place at the time and said that he only found out about it when the media reported it.

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Do we think it's strange that the Russian lawyer lady at the center of that meeting hasn't been approached by Mueller for an interview?

1. We don't know who has been approached. 

2. I don't know if she has been in the US any time in the last year. 

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4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Do we think it's strange that the Russian lawyer lady at the center of that meeting hasn't been approached by Mueller for an interview?

Mueller probably isn't too interested in any part of his case depending on the word of a Kremlin agent.

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1 minute ago, Tuco said:

1. We don't know who has been approached. 

2. I don't know if she has been in the US any time in the last year. 

In an AP interview earlier in week, she said that she has not be contacted. As opposed to the SIC contact. Item 2 is also addressed. 

 

https://apnews.com/b9657a2a41184b72b05bd1dae6667d4e

 

 

Edited by Anastasis
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Just now, wildcat09 said:

Mueller probably isn't too interested in any part of his case depending on the word of a Kremlin agent.

If that meeting is the heart of the collusion case, you talk to the lawyer IMO.  I don't think that you make anything dependent on her word, but you do an interview, IMO. /notafederalprosecutor

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If that meeting is the heart of the collusion case, you talk to the lawyer IMO.  I don't think that you make anything dependent on her word, but you do an interview, IMO. /notafederalprosecutor

My understanding is that targets of investigations often are not interviewed by investigators, particularly not in front of a grand jury.  There are exceptions, but absence of interviews does not equate to absence of suspected guilt.  Obviously they do get the opportunity to answer questions in the courtroom following an indictment.

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20 minutes ago, Tuco said:

1. We don't know who has been approached. 

2. I don't know if she has been in the US any time in the last year. 

Recall the Russian lawyer from last summer:

Quote

In an on-camera interview with Russian state-funded network RT Tuesday, Natalia Veselnitskaya said she is "ready to clarify the situation" as long as her safety is assured.

"I'm ready if I'm guaranteed safety because today I have to think about my safety first and foremost, about the safety of my family, my four children," she told RT. “If the Senate wishes to hear the real story, I will be happy to speak up and share everything I wanted to tell Mr. Trump last year."

hoo boy.

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32 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Recall the Russian lawyer from last summer:

hoo boy.

Well she did testify to the HIC for 3 hours in Berlin.  She has been very consistent that she has no ties to the Russian govt and that  all they talked about was sanctions related to Magnitsky and adoptions.  Rinat, who is a US citizen, has testified to Mueller.  He has said that he had no knowledge of the meeting until the day of, and was asked to attend that day by Nataliya as they were working together in lobbying efforts for adoptions/Magnitsky.

There could obviously be something there, but it seems very unlikely to me as Nataliya, Rinat, Trump Jr, Kush and Manafort have all told the exact same story.  They could certainly all be lying but that would be very hard to prove.  Obviously if there were extraneous notes by Manafort on the meeting at his residence then it would be helpful to the case.  I think it is unlikely anything comes of that meeting that implicates the trump crew in a conspiracy/collusion. 

And I get that some people think Trump Jr saying "i love it" is enough to prove collusion.  I disagree but I can see the point.  If there had actually been any dirt on Hillary exchanged or if there had been even one single follow up with the parties involved then Im ight feel differently.  And obviously, if they find some evidence/notes in Manaforts stuff then it could change.

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5 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Well she did testify to the HIC for 3 hours in Berlin. 

you mean this interview, which I hadn't seen: Senate panel talks to Russian lawyer who met with Trump Jr.

Quote

The person familiar with the conversation, who spoke to Veselnitskaya, said the dossier was discussed more than her involvement in the Trump Tower meeting.

A spokeswoman for Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., didn’t return a request for comment. A spokeswoman for Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the panel, declined to comment.

Trump Jr., along with the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort met with Veselnitskaya in June 2016 after Trump Jr. was told in emails that she could provide potentially incriminating information about Clinton. The Senate investigators have expressed interest in determining whether the meeting was part of a Russian government effort to help Donald Trump’s White House campaign, which was how it was described in emails to Trump Jr. in the days before it occurred.

Interesting, if true, that the dossier was a greater emphasis than the Trump Tower meeting in talking with her.  There is some potential she was asked to respond to things the Senators hold not rehearsed from her cheat sheet.  Nevertheless, the Trump Tower Don Jr/Kushner meeting with Russians remains a central pillar to the investigation.  

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2 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I don’t do criminal, but it sounds like the argument that the government’s argument that “state of mind evidence” is sufficiently particular is weak.  

Well, as I said, it really is startling how much or how broad a valid search warrant can be.  I didn't read the citations in the brief, but they seemed to have one for that (another huge advantage of the DOJ is that there are briefs from all over the nation on just about any conceivable topic that just need to be "Shepardized" and conformed to the facts), and, reading between the lines, it seemed to support their position.

The fact that the government falls back on the "good faith" exception (officers entitled to rely on a faulty warrant sought and issued in good faith), might mean that the government is on slighly shaky ground, but I suspect that is boilerplate in most of these briefs.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

you mean this interview, which I hadn't seen: Senate panel talks to Russian lawyer who met with Trump Jr.

Interesting, if true, that the dossier was a greater emphasis than the Trump Tower meeting in talking with her.  There is some potential she was asked to respond to things the Senators hold not rehearsed from her cheat sheet.  Nevertheless, the Trump Tower Don Jr/Kushner meeting with Russians remains a central pillar to the investigation.  

LOL.  You probably need to check on things yourself.  The SIC asked a lot of questions related to the Dossier, Nataliya did not bring it up.  In fact, here is her direct quote on the Dossier "absolute nonsense."

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Ha, I'd say her response was...informative.  

She'd agree to talk in Berlin, not in DC, and appeared last summer to be requesting a guarantee of "safety" i.e. immunity for her participation.  Dossier "absolute nonsense," assuming she's qualified to render that assessment.  She's a snake in the grass.

 

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Holy Karmic retribution !

EXCLUSIVE: Comey Has Brought On Former U.S. Attorney Pat Fitzgerald As One Of His Lawyers

Quote

Fired FBI Director James Comey has retained former U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald as one of his personal attorneys, bringing in a heavy-hitting former prosecutor, close friend and longtime colleague to help him navigate his dramatic role as a potential witness in the investigation of President Trump’s campaign and potential obstruction of justice.

Two Capitol Hill sources independently told TPM that Fitzgerald was serving as a lawyer for Comey. After publication, Fitzgerald confirmed that he “has been part of Mr. Comey’s legal team since May 2017.”

The news adds an additional twist to President Trump’s recent decision to pardon Scooter Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, for his role in the Valerie Plame affair.

Comey, then the deputy attorney general, was the man who authorized the special counsel’s investigation into “the alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee’s identity” in late 2003, the case that eventually led to Libby’s conviction for perjury and obstruction of justice. His choice for special counsel, the prosecutor who got the guilty verdict on Libby, was none other than Fitzgerald.

cont.

Spoiler

100108-2277df78f1f04b2a92ff2b6fccff0687-

 

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For the record this Giuliani shit is just a PR stunt to give the appearance of Trump cooperating and maybe an interview in the near future.

Trump has no intention of answering questions, he’s just stalling for time at this point.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s really more of an international crime syndicate case involving a shitload of crimes.

What Trump himself is guilty of beyond obstruction of justice is pure speculation.

on our part, yes.

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

For the record this Giuliani shit is just a PR stunt to give the appearance of Trump cooperating and maybe an interview in the near future.

Trump has no intention of answering questions, he’s just stalling for time at this point.

If Bannon was using Cambridge Analytica to discourage Democrat turnout, where does that fall into the scheme of things.  Not quite illegal. 

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

For the record this Giuliani shit is just a PR stunt to give the appearance of Trump cooperating and maybe an interview in the near future.

Trump has no intention of answering questions, he’s just stalling for time at this point.

Doesn't that play into Mueller's hands by giving him more time to wrap up the investigation?

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

For the record this Giuliani shit is just a PR stunt to give the appearance of Trump cooperating and maybe an interview in the near future.

Trump has no intention of answering questions, he’s just stalling for time at this point.

Funny that his interview with a fair minded arbiter is Fox.  Holly hell, maybe he can get Hannity or Kayne to moderate.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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Spoiler

 

Reportedly, Trump US Atty appointment to SDNY, Jeff Berman, recused himself from the ongoing Cohen investigation per input from DoJ officials in DC.  The specifics of the conflict of interest weren't reported, but Berman was a Trump donor, served on the Trump transition team, personally interviewed with Trump for the SDNY gig, and is a former law partner of Rudy.

Turns out Berman is an interim appointment whose term is set to end next week in the midst of the mushrooming ordeal involving Trump's consigliere.  Based on what we know about how Trump operates and his feelings about Sessions recusal from the Trump/Russia investigation, there is concern that it presents an opportunity for Trump to appoint a new SDNY US Atty who wouldn't have to recuse and could potentially lean on things.

That possibility got squelched today.  Federal judges for the District Court of SDNY made Berman's appointment permanent.  Judges can do that evidently.  That's a key firewall against meddling in the Cohen investigation that will remain intact. 

 

re-posted on the relevant thread.

Edited by triplehorn
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11 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Reportedly, Trump US Atty appointment to SDNY, Jeff Berman, recused himself from the ongoing Cohen investigation per input from DoJ officials in DC.  The specifics of the conflict of interest weren't reported, but Berman was a Trump donor, served on the Trump transition team, personally interviewed with Trump for the SDNY gig, and is a former law partner of Rudy.

Turns out Berman is an interim appointment whose term is set to end next week in the midst of the mushrooming ordeal involving Trump's consigliere.  Based on what we know about how Trump operates and his feelings about Sessions recusal from the Trump/Russia investigation, there is concern that it presents an opportunity for Trump to appoint a new SDNY US Atty who wouldn't have to recuse and could potentially lean on things.

That possibility got squelched today.  Federal judges for the District Court of SDNY made Berman's appointment permanent.  Judges can do that evidently.  That's a key firewall against meddling in the Cohen investigation that will remain intact. 

there are some smart fuckers on one end of this arena.

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30 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Stop shitposting with bare links to 50 page screeds. This adds nothing to the thread. 

I read a few pages of that paper . . . I don't think it would even garner a "C" in the average freshman comp class.  Yowza.

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