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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:

So I watched maddow just now.
Bitch wasnt crying at all.
She was gleeful in already poking holes in the AG Barr letter.
Her schtick was to say Barr cant be trusted to follow the law and will only give congress what he sees fit and there is something else there.
Said the Mueller investigation is over so now the REAL investigation will begin.
It will never end for the dems.

No matter what.
Ride that sinking ship

Teargate. 

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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29631

Posted
Posted (edited)

For those actually interested in the facts:

 

Quote

We don’t know what the Mueller report says, though given William Barr’s promise to brief the Judiciary Committee leaders this weekend and follow it with a public summary, it’s not likely to be that damning to Trump. But I can think of five mutually non-exclusive possibilities for the report:

  • Mueller ultimately found there was little fire behind the considerable amounts of smoke generated by Trump’s paranoia
  • The report will be very damning — showing a great deal of corruption — which nevertheless doesn’t amount to criminal behavior
  • Evidence that Manafort and Stone conspired with Russia to affect the election, but Mueller decided not to prosecute conspiracy itself because they’re both on the hook for the same prison sentence a conspiracy would net anyway, with far less evidentiary exposure
  • There’s evidence that others entered into a conspiracy with Russia to affect the election, but that couldn’t be charged because of evidentiary reasons that include classification concerns and presidential prerogatives over foreign policy, pardons, and firing employees
  • Mueller found strong evidence of a conspiracy with Russia, but Corsi, Manafort, and Stone’s lies (and Trump’s limited cooperation) prevented charging it

As many people have pointed out, this doesn’t mean Trump and his kin are out of jeopardy. This NYT piece summarizes a breathtaking number of known investigations, spanning at least four US Attorneys offices plus New York state, but I believe even it is not comprehensive.

All that said, we can anticipate a great deal of what the Mueller report will say by unpacking the lies Trump’s aides told to hide various ties to Russia: The report will show:

  • Trump pursued a ridiculously lucrative $300 million real estate deal even though the deal would use sanctioned banks, involve a former GRU officer as a broker, and require Putin’s personal involvement at least through July 2016.
  • The Russians chose to alert the campaign that they planned to dump Hillary emails, again packaging it with the promise of a meeting with Putin.
  • After the Russians had offered those emails and at a time when the family was pursuing that $300 million real estate deal, Don Jr took a meeting offering dirt on Hillary Clinton as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” At the end (per the sworn testimony of four people at the meeting) he said his father would revisit Magnitsky sanctions relief if he won. Contrary to the claim made in a statement authored by Trump, there was some effort to follow up on Jr’s assurances after the election.
  • The campaign asked rat-fucker Roger Stone to optimize the WikiLeaks releases and according to Jerome Corsi he had some success doing so.
  • In what Andrew Weissmann called a win-win (presumably meaning it could help Trump’s campaign or lead to a future business gig for him), Manafort provided Konstantin Kilimnik with polling data that got shared with Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs. At the same meeting, he discussed a “peace” plan for Ukraine that would amount to sanctions relief.
  • Trump undercut Obama’s response to the Russian hacks in December 2016, in part because he believed retaliation for the hacks devalued his victory. Either for that reason, to pay off Russia, and/or to pursue his preferred policy, Trump tried to mitigate any sanctions, an attempt that has (with the notable exception of those targeting Oleg Deripaska) been thwarted by Congress.

We know all of these things — save the Stone optimization detail, which will be litigated at trial unless Trump pardons him first — to be true, either because Trump’s aides and others have already sworn they are true, and/or because we’ve seen documentary evidence proving it.

That’s a great deal of evidence of a quid pro quo — of Trump trading campaign assistance for sanctions relief. All the reasons above may explain why Mueller didn’t charge it, with the added important detail that Trump has long been a fan of Putin. Trump ran openly on sanctions relief and Presidents get broad authority to set their own foreign policy, and that may be why all this coziness didn’t amount to criminal behavior: because a majority of the electoral college voted (with Russia’s involvement) to support those policies.

Whatever reason this didn’t get charged as a crime (it may well have been for several involved, including Trump), several things are clear.

First, consider all this from the perspective of Russia: over and over, they exploited Trump’s epic narcissism and venality. Particularly with regards to the Trump Tower deal, they did so in a way that would be especially damaging, particularly given that even while a former GRU officer was brokering the deal, the GRU was hacking Trump’s opponent. They often did so in ways that would be readily discovered, once the FBI decided to check Kilimnik’s Gmail account. Russia did this in ways that would make it especially difficult for Trump to come clean about it, even if he were an upstanding honest person.

Partly as a result, partly because he’s a narcissist who wanted to deny that he had illicit help to win, and partly because he’s a compulsive liar, Trump and his aides all lied about what they’ve now sworn to be true. Over and over again.

And that raised the stakes of the Russian investigation, which in turn further polarized the country.

As I noted here, that only added to the value of Russia’s intervention. Not only did Trump’s defensiveness make him prefer what Putin told him to what American Russian experts and his intelligence community would tell him, but he set about destroying the FBI in an effort to deny the facts that his aides ultimately swore were true. Sure, Russia hasn’t gotten its sanctions relief, yet. But it has gotten the President himself to attack the American justice system, something Putin loves to do.

We don’t know what the Mueller report will say about Trump’s role in all this, and how that will affect the rest of his presidency. We do know he remains under investigation for his cheating (as an unindicted co-conspirator in the ongoing hush money investigation) and his venality (in the inauguration investigation, at a minimum).

We do know, however, that whatever is in that report is what Mueller wants in it; none of the (Acting) Attorneys General supervising him thwarted his work, though Trump’s refusal to be interviewed may have.

But we also know that Russia succeeded wildly with its attack in 2016 and since.

Democrats and Republicans are going to continue being at each other’s throats over Trump’s policies and judges. Trump will continue to be a venal narcissist who obstructs legitimate oversight into his mismanagement of government.

Both sides, however, would do well to take this report — whatever it says — as the final word on this part of the Russian attack in 2016, and set about protecting the country from the next attack it will launch.

An unbelievable swath of this country — including the denialists who say all those things that Trump’s own aides swore to doesn’t amount to evidence of wrongdoing — have chosen for tribal reasons (and sometimes venal ones) to side with kleptocratic Russians over the protection of America. Now that the report is done, it’s time to start focus on protecting the United States again.

 

Edited by wildcat09
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted

From an article on CNN which explains all the trolling last night:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/23/politics/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-robert-mueller/index.html

 

While there was not a strict plan in place ahead of the report's conclusion, Trump and his Republican allies immediately launched an effort to cast the document as absolving him of wrongdoing. 

Talking points distributed by the Republican National Committee encouraged Trump's allies to stress that "after two years, millions of taxpayer dollars, and multiple congressional investigations confirming there was no collusion, it's good this report has finally concluded."

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 7040

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:


Watch him if you dont believe me.
Just my take.
He kept on with the implication that something was not right. Took 20 mins to breakdown “the letter”.
Said it was just the beginning not the end.
Dont be mad at me, be mad at that dude!

Him? Ohhhh you mean Maddow?! Omg that’s hilarious. Because she’s a lesbian with a short haircut! Holy shit, that’s clever. 

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Ted Lange

Ted Lange 16579

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Posted

How long is it going to take Dotard and co. to read this alleged 1 page report that says NO COLLUSION?    I mean if there is no hint of Russian meddling, report should be pretty brief.  Maybe he and Barr are coordinating the mass arrests of democrats like the QAnon freak cult has been fantasizing about. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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This seems like an appropriate time to use that flight tracker website to see where some senior level staff and donors to Pres. Assclown are conveniently heading this weekend during "Spring Break"  

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maninblack

maninblack 7975

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Maybe the Dems should team up with NATO and the E.U. countries to hack the fuck out of Trump and the Republicans in 2020 with a wink and a nod since that playbook is apparently very legal and very cool.

Well first they need to decide who they're going to rig the Dem primary for this time. Also strengthen everyone's passwords.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted

Trump and our trolls have gone radio silent.

Trump can’t blast the mueller investigation today because if he does everyone will assume the report crucifies him. 

Or it could completely exonerate him and he just hasn’t gotten around to tweeting about it yet. Yep that must be it. 

You can cut the tension with a knife.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47506

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Talking points distributed by the Republican National Committee encouraged Trump's allies to stress that "after two years, millions of taxpayer dollars, and multiple congressional investigations confirming there was no collusion, it's good this report has finally concluded."

 

The investigation lasted just over 1 year 10 months.

The investigation generated a profit.

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retread

retread 2952

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Trump and our trolls have gone radio silent.

Trump can’t blast the mueller investigation today because if he does everyone will assume the report crucifies him. 

Or it could completely exonerate him and he just hasn’t gotten around to tweeting about it yet. Yep that must be it. 

You can cut the tension with a knife.

January 2017

FBI: Mr. President, I'm sorry to inform you that the Russians may have meddled in the election. Be assured that we will spare no....

DOTUS: Can you tell me that you're not investigating me? Can you go ahead and say you're not investigating me and that I"m innocent?

FBI: ....

Edited by retread
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Red Five

Red Five 41912

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Posted

The Trumpkins going apeshit last night was really something to behold. Like, the report was delivered, and 45 minutes later they had scattered everywhere, all incredulous that Trump hadn't yet been imprisoned in those previous 45 minutes... without even knowing what was in the report itself. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Red Five said:

The Trumpkins going apeshit last night was really something to behold. Like, the report was delivered, and 45 minutes later they had scattered everywhere, all incredulous that Trump hadn't yet been imprisoned in those previous 45 minutes... without even knowing what was in the report itself. 

That CNN article I posted a couple hours ago explains why. The RNC sent out the word to all to claim the report somehow completely exonerated trump and like good little soldiers the trumpkins dutifully complied. As a result we had all sorts of handles, trolls and socks overwhelm the board last night proclaiming MAGA victory like we were back on the shag. 

I’m not sure if it’s a good strategy or not but that’s what happened. 

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Haven’t negged you bitch. Must have been one of your socks. 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t believe this for a second considering the fact that you neg everyone and you have given out far more negs than positive reactions per your profile. I wanted to prove you wrong and spent a good 30 minutes searching for any negs you might have given me. You replied to posts of mine but I didn’t see any negs. I just wanted to give you props and to acknowledge that I was wrong to assume you negged me.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Trump and our trolls have gone radio silent.

Trump can’t blast the mueller investigation today because if he does everyone will assume the report crucifies him. 

Or it could completely exonerate him and he just hasn’t gotten around to tweeting about it yet. Yep that must be it. 

You can cut the tension with a knife.

Sorry. We were all up late celebrating. Nothing new to discuss today. 

Edited by GRHorn
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32191

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, triplehorn said:

I give you substantial credit for not only correctly anticipating the initial outcome, but also recognizing that there is a lot yet to unfold.

However, no one anticipated the sequence of events that include a 24hr gap between the announcement of "no new indictments" from the SCO proper and actual pending release of the report.  The interval is creating a roller coaster effect.  Not sure how much that was expected by SCO/AG.

My main takeaway *this morning* is that Mueller and Barr were not in conflict over any aspect of the report.  We're about to find out, but i think this is a much bigger revelation of the stance Barr will maintain going forward. 

I suggested it within the last day or so - that Rod Rosenstein staying on as DAG for an indefinite amount of time, described this week as acting as "a Heat Shield", was more about absorbing heat directed at Barr more so than Mueller.  I think this would be a big deal, and given that Mueller is suddenly done it IS about Rosenstein supporting Barr, which an an ominous sign for the WH.

A big part of the reason for the roller coaster effect is the breathless and stupid coverage of the whole investigation by the professional media and the jackwagons on twitter.  Endless speculation on this, that, and the other micro-factoid and blah blah blah without really ever understanding what they were talking about or the bigger picture. 

The fact that hardly anyone recognized that existing DOJ policy prohibited indictment of the President and endlessly re-litigated that question, including a ton of lawyers that should know better, all in some fantastical hope that Robert Mueller would single-handedly deliver us from Trump, is Exhibit A.  This was really never an open question.  Either Mueller would have to buck it, or the DOJ under Trump would have to change a 20-40 year old policy.

While Mueller seems to have acquitted himself with dignity and professonalism, the media and pundits cannot say the same.  The media looked a whole lot like a thread on surlyhorns, including the drive-bys from "conservatives" screaming "witch hunt" and "no collusion."  That tells you a lot right there.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I didn’t believe this for a second considering the fact that you neg everyone and you have given out far more negs than positive reactions per your profile. I wanted to prove you wrong and spent a good 30 minutes searching for any negs you might have given me. You replied to posts of mine but I didn’t see any negs. I just wanted to give you props and to acknowledge that I was wrong to assume you negged me.

No worries. I usually try not to neg people who I think are real persons, no matter what opinion they spit out. I stopped negging swam on the scat site once I learned he was a real dude. Obviously I’m not omniscient and can’t know for sure who is real and who isn’t. But that’s just kind of my philosophy on that. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47506

Posted
Posted (edited)

TwiceHorn, I think you're a little off base on this.  For starters, let's accept the fact that 24/7 cable news leads to an insane amount of repetition.  This isn't new.  Regarding this:

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fact that hardly anyone recognized that existing DOJ policy prohibited indictment of the President and endlessly re-litigated that question, including a ton of lawyers that should know better, all in some fantastical hope that Robert Mueller would single-handedly deliver us from Trump, is Exhibit A.  This was really never an open question.  Either Mueller would have to buck it, or the DOJ under Trump would have to change a 20-40 year old policy.

 

The vast majority of (endlessly repetitive) discussion I saw on this acknowledged the policy as well as the fact that it isn't law.  Of course it's conjecture whether or not the DOJ would (legally) go against established policy.  I don't think I ever saw anyone saying "oh hell yeah they're gonna indict Trump if they have anything".

Cable news = NFL pregame "analysis" delivered throughout the week by dozens of talking heads (and talking meatheads) PER CHANNEL, each dressed in a $3K suit and wearing a $10K watch, and each holding a pen and scribbling periodically on a notepad, typically with furrowed brow as one of their peers pontificates on whether or not the Ravens will run more counter or option.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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