The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Anastasis 23356]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

But what role is the Marshall of the Supreme Court gonna play?  I’m on pins and needles. 

Don’t sleep on servers and spectrum health. 

[Anastasis 23356]

Deripaska and blavatnik!!!!

[notre dame joe 172]

6 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

But what role is the Marshall of the Supreme Court gonna play?  I’m on pins and needles. 

Okay trying again:

 

Hopefully Barr and/or SCOTUS will reign in the political prosecutions loudly promised by various blue factions.  Otherwise the Rs will have to lock up a few D associates because to show them how the Brave New World works both ways.

[triplehorn 2664]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

But what role is the Marshall of the Supreme Court gonna play?  I’m on pins and needles. 

Ha, I know man.  Blind squirrels and all that.

[Gatorubet 30050]

8 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I dont know about innocent, but a Trump did not willingly collude with the Russians and the president has the right to fire an FBI director regardless of obstruction would feel pretty innocent to those in his camp.

[atomheartbevo 89348]

TexAgs is probably jacking off over the belief that there are no more indictments coming, and that LSU made it into the Sweet 16.

[Michael Knight 12862]

1 hour ago, horncyclist said:

Here's my prediction. Said it before after the election. The Mueller report and its subsequent fallout will be damning and indefensible. Trump will be forced to resign within a month. I said he'd be out in six months back in November, so we're right on schedule. There's just too much evidence out there for there to be an innocent explanation. So many leads that an investigator would pull at, and I know Mueller has. 

Just consider this:

(1) Rob Goldstone email proposing the Trump Tower meeting suggesting the offer of dirt is "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump," assuming prior knowledge by the recipient Junior (and the campaign) of such efforts;

(2) Broad consensus by intelligence community and Mueller that Russia did in fact interfere in the election to help Trump;

(3) Manafort and everything we know about his contacts, including the polling data transfer;

(4) Trump Tower Russia;  and 

(5) Trump's inexplicable behavior towards Putin and Russia, especially Helsinki.

It's all there for anyone to see. Mueller, and the investigators before him spent about 3 years looking into this and connecting the dots. Trump is done. We're in for a wild ride over the next couple years.

Trump will never willingly quit

[Gatorubet 30050]

Best day would be Mueller report says that POTUS should be indicted, but that DOJ says can't indict a sitting POTUS.   I do not see that, as they would indict the kids as well, and I see no reason not to pull the trigger on the kids. 

Can you indict and seal it, and wait for the Orange Shit to leave office, and then proceed against all?   Did Mueller say that there were no more indictments from his investigation, but there might be future ones?  IOW, can he palm off an indictment for a future day to DOJ and honestly say that HIS investigation has no more indictments? 

[horncyclist 1384]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

Trump will never willingly quit

We'll see. If his removal is inevitable, what's his move? 

[horncyclist 1384]

Just now, Gatorubet said:

Best day would be Mueller report says that POTUS should be indicted, but that DOJ says can't indict a sitting POTUS.   I do not see that, as they would indict the kids as well, and I see no reason not to pull the trigger on the kids. 

Can you indict and seal it, and wait for the Orange Shit to leave office, and then proceed against all?   Did Mueller say that there were no more indictments from his investigation, but there might be future ones?  IOW, can he palm off an indictment for a future day to DOJ and honestly say that HIS investigation has no more indictments? 

My bet is that Mueller never intended to charge crimes at the core of the investigation. He was the investigator. The prosecutions will be left to others.

If I'm right, this will all start to play out as soon as Bill Bar briefs Congress. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13536]

In the wake of the president's campaign manager going to prison, his National Security Advisor going to prison, and his lawyer/deputy RNC finance chair going to prison, who could have forseen the Johnny Jolly dancing on winged hopes the DOJ won't indict the president. It's like the Chris Rock bit about taking care of your kids- You're supposed to be unindicted.

[Anastasis 23356]

7 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

My bet is that Mueller never intended to charge crimes at the core of the investigation. He was the investigator. The prosecutions will be left to others.

If I'm right, this will all start to play out as soon as Bill Bar briefs Congress. 

It’s a shame you couldn’t use an extra 4 grand. 

[atomheartbevo 89348]

11 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

We'll see. If his removal is inevitable, what's his move? 

tweet out "DO SOMETHING!" over and over and over.

Threaten every Republican Senator with either being primaried by his followers, or spilling the beans about whatever he knows about them.

If he can "convince" Linda Graham over a round of golf, I'm pretty sure he's got plenty of dirt on everybody else.

[hobbes2702 12771]

33 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Okay trying again:

 

Hopefully Barr and/or SCOTUS will reign in the political prosecutions loudly promised by various blue factions.  Otherwise the Rs will have to lock up a few D associates because to show them how the Brave New World works both ways.

Ok crazy guy 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

TwiceHorn, I think you're a little off base on this.  For starters, let's accept the fact that 24/7 cable news leads to an insane amount of repetition.  This isn't new.  Regarding this:

 

The vast majority of (endlessly repetitive) discussion I saw on this acknowledged the policy as well as the fact that it isn't law.  Of course it's conjecture whether or not the DOJ would (legally) go against established policy.  I don't think I ever saw anyone saying "oh hell yeah they're gonna indict Trump if they have anything".

Cable news = NFL pregame "analysis" delivered throughout the week by dozens of talking heads (and talking meatheads) PER CHANNEL, each dressed in a $3K suit and wearing a $10K watch, and each holding a pen and scribbling periodically on a notepad, typically with furrowed brow as one of their peers pontificates on whether or not the Ravens will run more counter or option.

I dunno, that's just my sense of it.  First, I don't like Trump, but, I think the media and a lot of oppo politicians play right into his hands by engaging in soundbite media and sort of breathless replies to the trolling idiocy he spews.  Maybe that's the nature of the world now.  I don't do cable news so can't fairly comment, but I acknowledge that it probably drives a lot of this.

If I don't see another "long-form' tweet, strung together by 1/, 2/, etc. as long as I live, it will be too soon.  Put that shit on a blog and have a decent long-form discussion of it.  On twitter, it's just trollbait, circlejerking, and poo-flinging.

Having a sort of academic interest in the question of indicting the President, but not formally researching it through, say Westlaw, I culled through a lot of articles from premier media outlets, WaPo, NYT and others, as well as various fountains of shit.  Hardly any of them, or their interviewees, were candid about the indictment question really being settled DOJ policy that was highly unlikely to be overturned (probably by any DOJ, but particularly Trump's DOJ).  Yes, it isn't law, but it's the next best thing on a question like this. The articles often cited Rotunda's opinion, given before the current policy, under different circumstances, and at no point approaching DOJ policy, on an equal footing with the DOJ policy.

In short, the coverage on this, on both sides, was driven more by a desired outcome (and worse, a preemptive dismissal of an assumed outcome from the right) than a real, rational, and dispassionate analysis of facts and law.  Because the coverage was outcome driven, when the outcome was unexpected, the roller coaster commenced.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.  These are strange times, so things are strange.

Edited March 24, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Hank Kingsley 20631]

Trump will not resign. He's fucked once he becomes a civilian and will definitely be in a shitload of legal trouble for various things. The presidency protects him. 

 

[maninblack 7974]

[Mojo Hand 4580]

The longest Trump has gone without tweeting during his presidency seems to be a little under 46 hours.   We're at a little over 30 hours right now. 

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

The biggest shock of this entire report is that nothing has leaked yet. I'm guessing tomorrow will be everywhere when AG sends whatever he decides to Congress 

[notre dame joe 172]

1 hour ago, Kiss said:

I'm feeling better about the report now. "It's not a blue wave oh wait it mostly is" I think is happening here.

It would be negligence really to not conclude something very deleterious to the Trump presidency. All that redacted material -and the NY/DC judge's incensed verbal criticisms of Flynn etc impart that something very grave, startling and disturbing happened.

 going off memory here.  Iago tells Othello that unfaithful people take great pains to cover up their affair.  Therefore; the proof that Desdemona is cheating on him is that you don't see any proof.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13536]

51 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The longest Trump has gone without tweeting during his presidency seems to be a little under 46 hours.   We're at a little over 30 hours right now. 

Well, that answered one of my ruminations... and as a follow-up, would anything the president henceforth (yeah, henceforth!) tweets be subjected to exposure due to evidence he's now possibly privy to?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13536]

13 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

 going off memory here.  Iago tells Othello that unfaithful people take great pains to cover up their affair.  Therefore; the proof that Desdemona is cheating on him is that you don't see any proof.

...other than convictions

[Ted Lange 15988]

This is turning into OJ case part deux, Orange Boogaloo.   Mueller report will probably lay out a ton of evidence. Much we already know, which makes it blatantly obvious TrumpCo engaged in things that were at best, uber swampy and totally unethical.   

The trump rubes, like the folks cheering on the OJ verdict, will know deep down inside he is guilty and a piece of shit, but will cheer on none the less, because team. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Ted Lange

[Prepuce of Doom 20967]

2 hours ago, horncyclist said:

We'll see. If his removal is inevitable, what's his move? 

I acknowledge that this is the stuff of a poorly written television show, but that's the political landscape we live in today. 

Trump either fakes his own death (and probably fucks it up for himself and blows his cover within 3 months) or flees to Russia. 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Prepuce of Doom

[atomheartbevo 89348]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

The longest Trump has gone without tweeting during his presidency seems to be a little under 46 hours.   We're at a little over 30 hours right now. 

The last tweet from his account as of 11pm tonight, was around 3pm yesterday - so yeah, around 30 or so hours.  

BUT, the last tweet that feels like it was him was the NK sanctions tweet or the losers tweet, which is around 35-36 hours. 

Defintely very odd.  Given his lack of self control. I am surprised he hasn’t dashed off a “SEE FAKE WITCH HUNT” tweet.  

[Incredulity 11529]

39 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

This is turning into OJ case part deux, Orange Boogaloo.   Mueller report will probably lay out a ton of evidence. Much we already know, which makes it blatantly obvious TrumpCo engaged in things that were at best, uber swampy and totally unethical.   

The trump rubes, like the folks cheering on the OJ verdict, will know deep down inside he is guilty and a piece of shit, but will cheer on none the less, because team. 

It’s abundantly clear you have convinced yourself of that.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13536]

This Force shit makes me talk stuff...

[Ted Lange 15988]

11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It’s abundantly clear you have convinced yourself of that.

Convinced myself that Trump is a huge piece of crap and has done a ton of shady and likely illegal stuff?  Yeah, and anyone who isn’t main lining Foxnews knows it too. 

[triplehorn 2664]

36 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Defintely very odd.  Given his lack of self control. I am surprised he hasn’t dashed off a “SEE FAKE WITCH HUNT” tweet.  

He’s facing a new front.  How to aim inchoate guile at not one man (and 12 angry democrats), but a long, impenetrable, wall - of proscutors - all up on his turf has to be at least a 40 hour effort.  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13536]

Your mom's a whore.

 

[notre dame joe 172]

4 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Convinced myself that Trump is a huge piece of crap and has done a ton of shady and likely illegal stuff?  Yeah, and anyone who isn’t main lining Foxnews knows it too. 

Hilary voters folks.

[horncyclist 1384]

On the silence, if he found out Friday that they would have recommended indicting him on obstruction-- but didn't because of DOJ policy on indicting a sitting president -- and his tweets were a big part of the obstruction case, that might actually shut him up. 

I stand by my prediction. Trump is done.  

 

 

[zork 629]

25 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

On the silence, if he found out Friday that they would have recommended indicting him on obstruction-- but didn't because of DOJ policy on indicting a sitting president -- and his tweets were a big part of the obstruction case, that might actually shut him up. 

I stand by my prediction. Trump is done.  

 

 

'done' as in impeached, by easter?  or just not re-elected?  or what and when exactly?

[horncyclist 1384]

Just now, zork said:

'done' as in impeached, by easter?  or just not re-elected?  or what and when exactly?

I think most likely is that he resigns under pressure of removal. Democrats will quickly move towards impeachment. I can't say the timing of when he's gone exactly, or how. I just bought the "Will Trump be President at the end of 2019? NO" position on Predictit for what it's worth. 

[GW Hayduke 1950]

Honest question. Ignoring the stuff that has already come out in public like the Trump Tower meeting, the project in Moscow, firing of Comey cause of the "the russia thing, and providing polling data to russia and then imagining that Trump and those close to him did nothing wrong, why was everyone lying about everything? Also if he is innocent and did nothing wrong, why constantly attack the Mueller investigation? Why go with "witch hunt" rather than "clear my name and I'll testify under oath!"

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[maninblack 7974]

I can't say the timing of when he's gone exactly, or how.

Most likely 2024 after serving out his 2nd term

[SimonBolivar 10895]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Honest question. Ignoring the stuff that has already come out in public like the Trump Tower meeting, the project in Moscow, firing of Comey cause of the "the russia thing, and providing polling data to russia and then imagining that Trump and those close to him did nothing wrong, why was everyone lying about everything? Also if he is innocent and did nothing wrong, why constantly attack the Mueller investigation? Why go with "witch hunt" rather than "clear my name and I'll testify under oath!"

Because liberals man. See @EMAWesome post about him giving 0 fucks about what Trump does as long as it keeps the liberals out of power.  I doubt his thoughts would be considered unique. 

[wildcat09 29183]

7 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Most likely 2024 after serving out his 2nd term

At least Trump is useful for revealing the "libertarians" for the frauds they always were.

[GW Hayduke 1950]

This is a measured, fair, and balanced discussion on the the current situation. Only 12 minutes.

 

[Enchubben 5509]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Honest question. Ignoring the stuff that has already come out in public like the Trump Tower meeting, the project in Moscow, firing of Comey cause of the "the russia thing, and providing polling data to russia and then imagining that Trump and those close to him did nothing wrong, why was everyone lying about everything? Also if he is innocent and did nothing wrong, why constantly attack the Mueller investigation? Why go with "witch hunt" rather than "clear my name and I'll testify under oath!"

My honest opinion - he’s attacked it because there is no legitimate reason to have conducted it in the first place.  Maybe there’s small dumb shit that he doesn’t want public that will be released as a part of this that has nothing to do with Russia or any election.

If I had a 2 year federal investigation into my life for something that didn’t happen I’d be pissed. Especially when it harms my reputation and originated solely due to bitterness over losing an election.

[Dahobbs 17417]

5 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

My honest opinion - he’s attacked it because there is no legitimate reason to have conducted it in the first place.  Maybe there’s small dumb shit that he doesn’t want public that will be released as a part of this that has nothing to do with Russia or any election.

If I had a 2 year federal investigation into my life for something that didn’t happen I’d be pissed. Especially when it harms my reputation and originated solely due to bitterness over losing an election.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Wow. Yup, no reason to investigate the full extent of the massive Russian campaign aimed at our democracy. 

Let me guess, this investigation, unnecessary. Those emails and Benghazi, totally worthwhile investigations. 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 hours ago, horncyclist said:

On the silence, if he found out Friday that they would have recommended indicting him on obstruction-- but didn't because of DOJ policy on indicting a sitting president -- and his tweets were a big part of the obstruction case, that might actually shut him up. 

I stand by my prediction. Trump is done.  

 

A couple 'have a great day' tweets came out a couple hours ago, nothing of substance.  But if the absence of attacks on Mueller, Mueller report, or any other aspect of ongoing investigations or active prosecutions continues, I think you're right.

[Enchubben 5509]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Hahahahahahahahaha. Wow. Yup, no reason to investigate the full extent of the massive Russian campaign aimed at our democracy. 

Let me guess, this investigation, unnecessary. Those emails and Benghazi, totally worthwhile investigations. 

Remind me how much collusion with Russia was uncovered during this investigation? And who worked with Russia to produce the fake dossier that initiated this investigation in the first place?

If any investigation investigation into Russia is necessary, its one looking into the payments between the Clinton Foundation and Russia and the coziness of The DNC and the department of Justice during the late Obama administration.

[GW Hayduke 1950]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

My honest opinion - he’s attacked it because there is no legitimate reason to have conducted it in the first place.  Maybe there’s small dumb shit that he doesn’t want public that will be released as a part of this that has nothing to do with Russia or any election.

If I had a 2 year federal investigation into my life for something that didn’t happen I’d be pissed. Especially when it harms my reputation and originated solely due to bitterness over losing an election.

I'm not sure I follow.

Whether he feels the investigation is justified or not, why lie?  How does lying make sense?

I understand you say that he may feel pissed and upset if he truly is innocent. Your point seems to be that he is acting on his emotion. That might make sense for a day or two maybe, but his emotions wouldn't last that long. Why continuously attack the investigation if there was nothing to hide, if it was an opportunity to clear himself? He could say "Yeah, I'm mad about being investigated but I have nothing to hide, so let's support the investigation so everyone knows I'm innocent?"

[Dahobbs 17417]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

Remind me how much collusion with Russia was uncovered during this investigation? And who worked with Russia to produce the fake dossier that initiated this investigation in the first place?

If any investigation investigation into Russia is necessary, its one looking into the payments between the Clinton Foundation and Russia and the coziness of The DNC and the department of Justice during the late Obama administration.

You would have thought the party that controlled all three branches of government could have done that. Weird. It is almost like years of house investigations revealed absolutely nothing. But in your mind, it is the investigation that resulted in multiple indictments and jail sentences that revealed nothing. No cognitive dissonance there at all. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Why would he resign and expose himself to all the state charges waiting for him the second he leaves the White House? 

[Anastasis 23356]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I'm not sure I follow.

Whether he feels the investigation is justified or not, why lie?  How does lying make sense?

I understand you say that he may feel pissed and upset if he truly is innocent. Your point seems to be that he is acting on his emotion. That might make sense for a day or two maybe, but his emotions wouldn't last that long. Why continuously attack the investigation if there was nothing to hide, if it was an opportunity to clear himself? He could say "Yeah, I'm mad about being investigated but I have nothing to hide, so let's support the investigation so everyone knows I'm innocent?"

See also, Axis II: Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[SimonBolivar 10895]

9 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Remind me how much collusion with Russia was uncovered during this investigation? And who worked with Russia to produce the fake dossier that initiated this investigation in the first place?

If any investigation investigation into Russia is necessary, its one looking into the payments between the Clinton Foundation and Russia and the coziness of The DNC and the department of Justice during the late Obama administration.

This is incorrect. An investigation into Russian meddling of the election is warranted regardless of Trump/Clinton collusion that doesn't appear to exist at this time. Our IC has confirmed that there is a serious issue with Russian interference,  but POTUS doesn't seem to trust our own IC which is the real danger here. The rest of this is just political theater.

Edited March 24, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[David Dennison 18561]

16 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

My honest opinion - he’s attacked it because there is no legitimate reason to have conducted it in the first place.  Maybe there’s small dumb shit that he doesn’t want public that will be released as a part of this that has nothing to do with Russia or any election.

If I had a 2 year federal investigation into my life for something that didn’t happen I’d be pissed. Especially when it harms my reputation and originated solely due to bitterness over losing an election.

Of course there's a legitimate reason. His business and campaign were in contact with Russians throughout the run up to the election and he, his family, and everyone involved in the campaign lied about it from the very start. The president and his children continue to lie about it.