The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I mean, if you fire the FBI director for an investigation into Russia, you should expect a special counsel investigating your connections to Russia.  

Also, the evidence of Trump blatantly lying to the American people about having no deals in Russia while simultaneously working on a clandestine business deal in Russia while running for President is, I don’t know, SUSPICIOUS.

Who fired an FBI director due to an investigation into Russia?

[Jim Tom Pinch 120]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There’s meat on the obstruction bone but I seriously doubt it will amount to any consequences for Trump because Congress is spineless, on “both sides”.

It’s just so cute that you actually believe this.

Or are you just regurgitating what your paymasters spoon feed you?

[Thetexashammer 1062]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I mean, if you fire the FBI director for an investigation into Russia, you should expect a special counsel investigating your connections to Russia.  

Also, the evidence of Trump blatantly lying to the American people about having no deals in Russia while simultaneously working on a clandestine business deal in Russia while running for President is, I don’t know, SUSPICIOUS.

That's entirely reasonable. But like Dershowitz and Turley, I lean towards a nonpartisan commission over a special counsel. Special counsels get politicized, as we've witnesses. If you actually care about stopping Russia, you want a nonpartisan commission that can stay out of the political limelight because that's the only way to really get things done.

I don't think anybody's denying Trump is somewhat shady. 

[David Dennison 19441]

1 hour ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

Who fired an FBI director due to an investigation into Russia?

Some guy said the following:

"He [Rosenstein] made a recommendation, he’s highly respected, very good guy, very smart guy. The Democrats like him, the Republicans like him. He made a recommendation. But regardless of [the] recommendation, I was going to fire Comey. Knowing there was no good time to do it!

"And in fact when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should’ve won.' ”

[NaTeWHO 869]

[notre dame joe 202]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

He has no idea what Uranium One is about, but Rush and Buck and Sean told him it was bad and HILLARY!!!1!111!

You're funny because reading an liberal article 'debunking' the scandal persuaded me it was good old fashioned graft.  Note you had to invent a quid pro quo for the Russian Hoax when U1 was cold cash.

[TwiceHorn 31996]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Some guy said the following:

"He [Rosenstein] made a recommendation, he’s highly respected, very good guy, very smart guy. The Democrats like him, the Republicans like him. He made a recommendation. But regardless of [the] recommendation, I was going to fire Comey. Knowing there was no good time to do it!

"And in fact when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should’ve won.' ”

If I'm his lawyer, I'd tell the jury, you know Mr Trump, that isn't a statement of his motivation, that's a silly prideful man who won't admit that a lowly, poor DAG made a decision for him.  Then I'd point out the half dozen things he said inconsistent with that.  Then I'd run a tape of the chaos word salad that was that interview.

Bingo bango reasonable doubt.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

If I'm his lawyer, I'd tell the jury, you know Mr Trump, that isn't a statement of his motivation, that's a silly prideful man who won't admit that a lowly, poor DAG made a decision for him.  Then I'd point out the half dozen things he said inconsistent with that.  Then I'd run a tape of the chaos word salad that was that interview.

Bingo bango reasonable doubt.

Couldn’t a prosecutor use Trump’s year long verbal assault on the investigation, public berating of key witnesses, and constant complaints about Sessions recusing himself (ultimately ending in his termination) as evidence of a pattern of obstruction and/or consciousness of guilt?  

 

ETA:  I’d love to see a skilled prosecutor lay out all the publicly known supporting evidence of obstruction and see how a skilled defense attorney would respond to it. 

Another thing occurred to me, perhaps the Barr letter could bolster the case for obstruction given the nature of his installation, his unsolicited memo regarding obstruction, and his interest in being Trump’s defense attorney prior to his nomination.  The conflict of interest seems significant and possibly troubling to a jury. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Enchubben 5598]

Lol this guy cracks me up.

[Anastasis 23703]

Really becoming a CR performance piece on the state of our mental healthcare system. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

What. The. Fuck.

Michael Caputo is another POS that sold his soul to the Kremlin long ago.  I was a little surprised he didn’t get wrapped up in the Mueller investigation more. 

 

Caputo moved to Russia in 1994 after the fall of the Soviet Union, and was an adviser to Boris Yeltsin and helped elect Yeltsin to a second term as President of Russia. He worked for Gazprom Media in 2000 where he helped improve the image of Vladimir Putin in the U.S. He moved back to the U.S. and founded a public relations company, and then moved to Ukraine to work on a candidate's campaign for parliament.

Caputo worked as the campaign manager for Carl Paladino in his 2010 bid for Governor of New York. In 2016, Caputo joined the Donald Trump campaign, and was put in charge of communications for New York. He left the campaign after publicly voicing his approval for the replacement of campaign manager Corey Lewandowski with Paul Manafort.

Caputo was investigated by the United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence as part of their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential election. In May 2016, Caputo and Roger Stone met with Henry Greenberg, a Russian national who claimed to have damaging information about Hillary Clinton. Caputo later denied contact with Russian officials or having discussed Russia with Trump or with other campaign aides.^[2]Caputo stated it was not until prosecutors informed him that Greenberg was Russian that he learned the man he had spoken with in 2016 was not a US citizen.^[3]

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-trump-aide-frantically-scrambles-to-scrub-russia-from-bio

Former Donald Trump campaign aide Michael Caputo is determined to prove that he did not work for Vladimir Putin, and he’s using every tool at his disposal to do so—from a congressional ethics complaint, to a defamation lawsuit, to a surreptitious Wikipedia edit campaign.

Sean Dwyer, an employee of Caputo’s PR firm, Zeppelin Communications, was blocked from Wikipedia in August after he was caught using multiple pseudonymous accounts to purge Caputo’s page of alleged Putin ties, according to an investigation by the site’s editors. After the accounts were exposed as what Wikipedia calls “sock puppets”—multiple accounts run by the same person as part of a coordinated editing campaign—Dwyer admitted he had financial ties to the subjects of his edits.

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

For those that are paying attention, a few facts that might raise some concern.
Political opposition research funded by an American political campaign was internalized by the FBI under a set of circumstances that raise some serious questions of propriety.
The FBI used that opposition research to bolster FISA surveillance applications targeting Americans. Pivotal aspects of that research are uncorroborated, but there was an "insurance policy" in play. There are ongoing OIG investigations underway that will hopefully shed light.
The director of the CIA and the FBI appear to have coordinated a series of events to ensure that the opposition research supported by the FBI and the DNC was given cover for public release to undermine a democratically elected President before he took office.
Just for those paying attention. 
 

Translation: Political opposition research, from a source that has advised several presidential administrations, found evidence of crime surrounding a campaign, some of which was corroborated by law enforcement which used it to further its investigations producing dozens of indictments, guilty pleas, and convictions...so far.

This did not paint campaign/administration in best light and raises questions of law enforcement bias. Concerning.

Sent from my LM-X210CM using Tapatalk

[Anastasis 23703]

23 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Political opposition research, from a source that has advised several presidential administrations

Further details please?  Who exactly are you referring to with this, and what administrations or other political organizations?

 

23 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

some of which was corroborated by law enforcement which used it to further its investigations

 

Which of the specific information included in the FISA application involving Page, submitted by the FBI to further its investigation, was independently corroborated and verified by law enforcement?  I'll hang up and listen.

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23703]

uh, primer on implementing the ignore function please.

[bad_teammate 13482]

Just now, Anastasis said:

uh, primer on implementing the ignore function please.

Hover over username. Click "Ignore User"

It would be cool to have an "Ignore users with overall neg rep" and/or "Ignore <48 hour registered users" feature.

Edited March 28, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Anastasis 23703]

Thanks. 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

Thanks, @bad_teammate

[Pam Cummings 9827]

Fuck Donald Trump and anyone who supports or enables him. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Which of the specific information included in the FISA application involving Page, submitted by the FBI to further its investigation, was independently corroborated and verified by law enforcement?  I'll hang up and listen.

You know you're pushing the Devin Nunes memo conspiracy theory right?   Not exactly a guy with a good track record of being an honest broker.  Carter Page's FISA warrant is something like 80 to 100 pages long.  The revelations in the Dossier about Page turned out close to accurate. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carter-page-congressional-testimony-transcript-steele-dossier-2017-11

It was also likely corroborated by other intelligence sources that can't be made public because it would compromise those sources.  Devin Nunes knows this which is why this conspiracy theory is so juicy.  Your questions can't be answered because it would jeopardize sources and methods.  Carter Page had run ins with SVR officers in the past that were attempting to compromise him.   It's not like Carter Page wasn't already on the FBI radar before getting information in the Dossier.

Even if whatever you're alleging is true, what is the implication?  That Carter Page was wronged?  That the feds shouldn't try to thwart subversion attempts by the Russian Federation?    

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/carter-page-trump-russia.html

Russian intelligence operatives tried in 2013 to recruit an American businessman and eventual foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign who is now part of the F.B.I. investigation into Russia’s interference into the American election, according to federal court documents and a statement issued by the businessman.

The businessman, Carter Page, met with one of three Russians who were eventually charged with being undeclared officers with Russia’s foreign intelligence service, known as the S.V.R. The F.B.I. interviewed Mr. Page in 2013 as part of an investigation into the spy ring, but decided that he had not known the man was a spy, and the bureau never accused Mr. Page of wrongdoing.

The court documents say that Mr. Page, who founded an investment company in New York called Global Energy Capital, provided documents about the energy business to one of the Russians, Victor Podobnyy, thinking he was a businessman who could help with brokering deals in Russia.

In fact, Mr. Podobnyy was an S.V.R. officer posing as an attaché at the Russian mission to the United Nations.

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9827]

All you need to know about Trump supporters is that their opinion of these things would be the exact opposite if Obama or really and Democrat president had done them. End of fucking story. 

[elguapo 4620]

28 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Further details please?  Who exactly are you referring to with this, and what administrations or other political organizations?

 

 

Which of the specific information included in the FISA application involving Page, submitted by the FBI to further its investigation, was independently corroborated and verified by law enforcement?  I'll hang up and listen.

 

So you are buying into the theory that there was a conspiracy within the IC to take down Trump by illegally dressing up FISA applications, and somehow this hasn't all come out already despite the number of people who would have to be involved in said conspiracy and cover-up?

 

But everyone else are the crazy ones right?

[Anastasis 23703]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You know you're pushing the Devin Nunes memo conspiracy theory right?

Squirrel!

There was a once upon a time on this board, a little while before you started your active measures campaign here, that the abuses of the intelligence community were broadly and nearly unanimously criticized across the political spectrum. Liberals, libertarians, and conservatives. Warrantless wire tapping, CIA/NSA mass surveillance, backdooring American communications, FISA abuses, etc. Was pretty standard common ground.  

[elguapo 4620]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Squirrel!

There was a once upon a time on this board, a little while before you started your active measures campaign here, that the abuses of the intelligence community were broadly and nearly unanimously criticized across the political spectrum. Liberals, libertarians, and conservatives. Warrantless wire tapping, CIA/NSA mass surveillance, backdooring American communications, FISA abuses, etc. Was pretty standard common ground.  

That's a cute story.  Go ahead and show us all of this evidence of FISA abuses in the Carter Page case and we can talk about it.

[retread 2951]

 

[elguapo 4620]

Just now, retread said:

 

But but but, dotard said go ahead and release the report, how can this be??????

[retread 2951]

This rabbit hole doesn't have a bottom, does it?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Squirrel!

There was a once upon a time on this board, a little while before you started your active measures campaign here, that the abuses of the intelligence community were broadly and nearly unanimously criticized across the political spectrum. Liberals, libertarians, and conservatives. Warrantless wire tapping, CIA/NSA mass surveillance, backdooring American communications, FISA abuses, etc. Was pretty standard common ground.  

And?

Seems like we had an enormous intelligence failure in 2016 when one MI6 spy witnessed the crime of the century going down in real time and our guys did nothing to stop it.  But yes, the feds clearly abused their powers here to protect the country from an attack by the Kremlin which turned out to be successful anyway. 

FISA abuse is the real concern here. 

[atomheartbevo 90550]

8 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

That's entirely reasonable. But like Dershowitz and Turley, I lean towards a nonpartisan commission over a special counsel. Special counsels get politicized, as we've witnesses. If you actually care about stopping Russia, you want a nonpartisan commission that can stay out of the political limelight because that's the only way to really get things done.

I don't think anybody's denying Trump is somewhat shady. 

A nonpartisan commission is impossible with Trump in the WH. Any Republican who even vaguely gives off a whiff of nonpartisanship is instantly attacked by Trump, and threatened with being primaried. 

[Degenerate Gardner 4135]

6 minutes ago, retread said:

This rabbit hole doesn't have a bottom, does it?

Let's keep Mike Pence outta this.

[elguapo 4620]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

A nonpartisan commission is impossible with Trump in the WH. Any Republican who even vaguely gives off a whiff of nonpartisanship is instantly attacked by Trump, and threatened with being primaried. 

To me one of the most fascinating aspects of the GOP's complete capitulation to Trump is that he will throw any and all of them, including his base, in the trash without a second thought if he thinks it is advantageous to himself.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

14 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Did I hear correctly that Barr is now saying it's going to take weeks to get the report to congress because it is so substantial?  Yet he was able to write a summary in less than 48 hours? 

Dude, he's a speed reader.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

24 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

All you need to know about Trump supporters is that their opinion of these things would be the exact opposite if Obama or really and Democrat president had done them. End of fucking story. 

You really aren't very perceptive are you.. no no don't answer that it was rhetorical... 

[Anastasis 23703]

3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

So you are buying into the theory that there was a conspiracy within the IC to take down Trump by illegally dressing up FISA applications, and somehow this hasn't all come out already despite the number of people who would have to be involved in said conspiracy and cover-up?

But everyone else are the crazy ones right?

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

[Foosters 18232]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

Hahaha

[elguapo 4620]

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

I agree that would be concerning but I have yet to see any evidence that this occurred in the Carter Page case and it seems that would have come out if it existed with Trumps lackeys in Congress constantly sniffing around for it.

[jimmyjazz 46986]

So you're questioning this specific FISA warrant because you believe the intelligence community is, in general, compromised?

Fuck it.  Free everybody.  Defund the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA.  

[triplehorn 2664]

In his very next tweet, he falsely claims the Mueller report has been released by substituting for the Barr letter.  And you have Caputo on Fox speaking directly to Trump about pardoning everyone charged to date.  Yesterday, Trump on Fox about Barr “a great gentlemen" & a "great man... So incredible... A very special person.”

Every move and every utterance looks like a cover-up and nothing else.  They know the Mueller report will bear no resemblance to Barr's letter or his partisan intervention.  This is TrumpCo's window of opportunity before the evidentiary tide turns.

[Anastasis 23703]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

one MI6 spy witnessed the crime of the century going down in real time and our guys did nothing to stop it

That former MI6 agent didn't actually witness anything, he compiled stories and information sourced primarily from Russians connected to Russian Intelligence.  This information was then used in FISA applications against US citizens. Let me restate that.  Uncorroborated information sourced from individuals serving in Russian Intelligence was used by the FBI in a FISA application against an American citizen. I'm crazy for pointing this out as a concerning issue. 

[elguapo 4620]

That former MI6 agent didn't actually witness anything, he compiled stories and information sourced primarily from Russians connected to Russian Intelligence.  This information was then used in FISA applications against US citizens. Let me restate that.  Uncorroborated information sourced from individuals serving in Russian Intelligence was used by the FBI in a FISA application against an American citizen. I'm crazy for pointing this out as a concerning issue. 

AKA the Gym Jordan/Devin Nunes theory, yeah good luck with that one.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

The political motivation in this case being what?

To prevent the subversion of American democracy by a hostile foreign government running a multi pronged military intelligence operation? 

How dare they! 

[jimmyjazz 46986]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That former MI6 agent didn't actually witness anything, he compiled stories and information sourced primarily from Russians connected to Russian Intelligence.  This information was then used in FISA applications against US citizens. Let me restate that.  Uncorroborated information sourced from individuals serving in Russian Intelligence was used by the FBI in a FISA application against an American citizen. I'm crazy for pointing this out as a concerning issue. 

a.  you don't know how much of it was uncorroborated

b.  the FISA warrant application hinged on a great deal of evidence outside the purview of the Steele Dossier

 

 

This has been discussed ad nauseam, and much like the Uranium One tinfoil hatters, you just won't let it go.  There's really no point in discussing it.

[elguapo 4620]

It seems @Anastasis natural tendency to play the contrarian in the age of Trump has caused his brain to short circuit in some way.

[Anastasis 23703]

 

3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

AKA the Gym Jordan/Devin Nunes theory, yeah good luck with that one.

Squirrel!

Everything in that post is accurate, based on the best information available publicly. 

[elguapo 4620]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

Squirrel!

Everything in that post is accurate, based on the best information available publicly. 

Accurate except for the tiny fact that those involved within the IC have stated that the Steele info was not used as the basis for the FISA application,.  So why haven't Trumps lackeys in congress been able to blow up this vast IC conspiracy and cover-up?  With the number of people who would have to be involved this should be easy to expose.

Edited March 28, 2019 by elguapo

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Fuck Donald Trump and anyone who supports or enables him. 

[elguapo 4620]

3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Accurate except for the tiny fact that those involved within the IC have stated that the Steele info was not used as the basis for the FISA application,.  So why haven't Trumps lackeys in congress been able to blow up this vast IC conspiracy and cover-up?  With the number of people who would have to be involved this should be easy to expose.

Further, Trump is the mother fucking POTUS.  If there was a conspiracy against him within the IC he could declassify all of the incriminating material whenever he wants to and expose everything.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

27 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

In general?  Probably.  They've done some fucked up mass surveillance when it comes to screening for terrorists.  In relation to the Trump investigation, it occurred legally. They had all they needed to get a warrant from Papadop/Australia. This idea that we have to prove everything beyond a reasonable doubt prior to warrants or investigations could not be more wrong. 

This is as wrong as the idea that one can destroy all evidence of a crime, prevent prosecution of that crime, and avoid an obstruction charge because now the evidence is gone and no crime/no obstruction.

Between the assault on our media and the assault on our justice system, we will be lucky to have anything left. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

In general?  Probably.  They've done some fucked up mass surveillance when it comes to screening for terrorists.  In relation to the Trump investigation, it occurred legally. They had all they needed to get a warrant from Papadop/Australia. This idea that we have to prove everything beyond a reasonable doubt prior to warrants or investigations could not be more wrong. 

This is as wrong as the idea that one can destroy all evidence of a crime, prevent prosecution of that crime, and avoid an obstruction charge because now the evidence is gone and no crime/no obstruction.

Between the assault on our media and the assault on our justice system, we will be lucky to have anything left. 

Assault on our media ?  What in the hell are you talking about ?  The media is responsible for so much mis information, who knows what's fact and what's just wishful thinking.  The distrust of the institution is complete self inflicted.

 

As for your other points yep the gov;t has way over stepped it's constitutional privileges for years now.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Assault on our media ?  What in the hell are you talking about ?  The media is responsible for so much mis information, who knows what's fact and what's just wishful thinking.  The distrust of the institution is complete self inflicted.

 

As for your other points yep the gov;t has way over stepped it's constitutional privileges for years now.  

The fact that you believe that is my point exactly. 

[David Dennison 19441]

41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is overwhelming evidence of broad IC misconduct when it comes to the unconstitutional use of surveillance mechanisms by the IC. There is nothing tinfoilhattery or conspiracy laden about that statement.  I have been consistent on this perspective for as long as I have posted on longhorn political boards, over multiple administrations. The fact pattern wrt the investigations under discussion here suggests an early intersection between political motivations and work product and potential abuses of the surveillance protections that are intended to protect our Constitution rights. That concerns me. It would concern me no matter who was in office. 

You're implicating the judges as well.