The Robert Mueller Investigation

[lemonlime 5503]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The political motivation in this case being what?

To prevent the subversion of American democracy by a hostile foreign government running a multi pronged military intelligence operation? 

How dare they! 

Yes.  It's like arguing the guy who sold heroin to hundreds of 10-year-olds  on the school playground along with dirty needles to shoot up should go free because we have fucked up drug laws in this country.  Yes, there are FISA abuses.  It doesn't mean that wiretaps shouldn't be used when people are offering favors to the KGB.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Yes.  It's like arguing the guy who sold heroin to hundreds of 10-year-olds  on the school playground along with dirty needles to shoot up should go free because we have fucked up drug laws in this country.  Yes, there are FISA abuses.  It doesn't mean that wiretaps shouldn't be used when people are offering favors to the KGB.

It's more like saying that you can't investigate that heroin dealer at all until you can first prove he is 100% guilty. 

[lemonlime 5503]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

It's more like saying that you can't investigate that heroin dealer at all until you can first prove he is 100% guilty. 

That too.  It just seems weird to use a case that's exactly why we need FISA (although I agree changes are needed to FISA and Fourth Amendment jurisprudence in general) , to make a point that FISA laws need to be revisited.  Yes, there are some terrible abuses of FISA laws.  There is no reason to believe that wiretapping Michael Flynn was one of them.

[jimmyjazz 46986]

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Assault on our media ?  What in the hell are you talking about ?  

Perhaps he's talking about the President brazenly defying his oath of office and attacking the free press.

[XingTheRubicon 134]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Perhaps he's talking about the President brazenly defying his oath of office and attacking the free press.

Voicing displeasure with the free press is part of the same amendment that guarantees a free press.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Perhaps he's talking about the President brazenly defying his oath of office and attacking the free press.

It doesn't really matter who the criticism comes from. Many media outlets have become their own agenda driven operations. They don't report verified fact they accept undisclosed remarks as fact without verification.  Weak, and skewed reporting was here well before Trump took office.  That includes FOX as well.  

[triplehorn 2664]

Schiff lays it out in response to Kevin "two people Putin pays" McCarthy and R's calling for Schiff to resign:

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, XingTheRubicon said:

Voicing displeasure with the free press is part of the same amendment that guarantees a free press.

Yeah but the most powerful person in the world publicly declaring you the enemy of the people for doing your job seems like, I dunno, dangerous and unAmerican.

It’s a line straight from Joseph Stalin.  

He gets away with it because muh free speech but it doesn’t mean we should tolerate it. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It doesn't really matter who the criticism comes from. Many media outlets have become their own agenda driven operations. They don't report verified fact they accept undisclosed remarks as fact without verification.  Weak, and skewed reporting was here well before Trump took office.  That includes FOX as well.  

It does matter who the criticism comes from.  The President represents the state.  When he says it, it is the state attempting to suppress the media.  It is a direct violation of the 1st amendment.  That nobody in the DOJ or Congress attempts to stop him from doing it is a sign of just how close we are teetering to the edge.

When you criticize the media it is not the same thing.  You, as a private citizen, are free to do so.

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Schiff lays it out in response to Kevin "two people Putin pays" McCarthy and R's calling for Schiff to resign:

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

Not only that, the emails were gone and not recoverable at that point.  Hillary made sure of that.  If anything, they could maybe give us the emails she deleted from an earlier hack.  That would have been interesting.  Because those 30,000 emails were not just about yoga routines and Chelsea's wedding.

[triplehorn 2664]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

How many hours passed after Trump called for Russia to hack Clinton before the next Russian hack occurred.  And everything else Schiff laid out ?  Good rebuttal cheese.

fuck these GOP traitors.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

So "seriousness" is a get out of jail free card?  Trump never comes across as serious.  I guess he can call for whatever he wants then.  

Usually he kind of hints around it and gives himself the ability to say, "I said they could, not that I wanted them too."  The call to hack Clinton was more direct than his usual attempts to incite.  This statement is more typical of him.

“You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. OK? I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump—I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough—until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. But the left plays it cuter and tougher. Like with all the nonsense that they do in Congress … with all this invest[igations]—that’s all they want to do is —you know, they do things that are nasty. Republicans never played this."

[jimmyjazz 46986]

17 minutes ago, XingTheRubicon said:

Voicing displeasure with the free press is part of the same amendment that guarantees a free press.

He is actively undermining the 1st Amendment when he calls the press "the enemy of the people".  This is not acceptable from POTUS.

The fact that right-wing bootlickers don't get it is (a) unsurprising and (b) infuriating.  Again, go back to 8th grade and crack open a Civics text.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Schiff lays it out in response to Kevin "two people Putin pays" McCarthy and R's calling for Schiff to resign:

 

 

 

Finally!  Need moar of this now from other democrats.  Start pumping out known facts that will be in the Mueller report.  Keep repeating them over and over again until the Mueller report is released.  Publicly shame the fuck out of the KGOP.   Now is the time the democrats need to start raising hell over this coverup in progress. 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

How many hours passed after Trump called for Russia to hack Clinton before the next Russian hack occurred. 

So let me get this straight. You are contending that a bunch of Russian hackers were just sitting around waiting for the "go" from a candidate who (at that time) had little chance of winning to hack a US Secretary of States email? How flat is your earth?

[Biff Tannen 46063]

Trump supporters:  is everything Schiff just referenced ok?  Some of it?  Which parts?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Finally!  Need moar of this now from other democrats.  Start pumping out known facts that will be in the Mueller report.  Keep repeating them over and over again until the Mueller report is released.  Publicly shame the fuck out of the KGOP.   Now is the time the democrats need to start raising hell over this coverup in progress. 

keep up the witch hunt now that the narrative has collapsed.  Guarantee Trump another 4 years.

[Nivek 17343]

10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

I remembered when I pretended to rob that store with a gun, but I was actually just kidding cause.  I even had on my clown mask!  They handed me the money, and I took it, because they gave it to me for free.  So officer, I was just joking.  

[jimmyjazz 46986]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

So let me get this straight. You are contending that a bunch of Russian hackers were just sitting around waiting for the "go" from a candidate who (at that time) had little chance of winning to hack a US Secretary of States email? How flat is your earth?

It's telling that out of a giant compilation of malfeasance committed by Trump's campaign and other associates, you've found one item to focus on and think you have a "gotcha".  Trump's call to Russia, serious or not, was completely unacceptable.  There's usually truth in "humor".

[jimmyjazz 46986]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

keep up the witch hunt now that the narrative has collapsed.  Guarantee Trump another 4 years.

Dear Johnny National Debt,

All Trump has to do is release the report.

Love,

Everybody But The Traitors

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

I remembered when I pretended to rob that store with a gun, but I was actually just kidding cause.  I even had on my clown mask!  They handed me the money, and I took it, because they gave it to me for free.  So officer, I was just joking.  

The emails were long since deleted.  Any chance of getting them would have been from a prior hack.  Clinton’s server — which was turned over to the Department of Justice in 2015 — was out of operation when Trump made his joke. It did not exist as a server then. It was impossible for a foreign power — or anyone else for that matter — to hack something that did not exist.

Use your brains a little bit on that one.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Dear Johnny National Debt,

All Trump has to do is release the report.

Love,

Everybody But The Traitors

The traitors are the ones pushing this Russia collusion nonsense.  

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's telling that out of a giant compilation of malfeasance committed by Trump's campaign and other associates, you've found one item to focus on and think you have a "gotcha".  Trump's call to Russia, serious or not, was completely unacceptable.  There's usually truth in "humor".

I was referring to the tweet posted by Tripplehorn.

[jimmyjazz 46986]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I was referring to the tweet posted by Tripplehorn.

So was I.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Anyone who thinks the "call to hack Clinton" is serious, shouldn't be serving in Congress. 

Trump was asked if he was serious right after making the comment and he doubled down.  

One minute video in the link. 

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4615527/donald-trump-if-russia-chinahas-emails-love-them

Katy Tur gave him plenty opportunity to say he was just jesting

He was dead serious.

 

[Degenerate Gardner 4135]

1 hour ago, elguapo said:

It seems @Anastasis natural tendency to play the contrarian in the age of Trump has caused his brain to short circuit in some way.

The Trump era's driven us all a little/lot crazy/crazier.  Anastasis represents the devil's advocate's absurd extremes at times, like Hugo can be the breathless watcher driven mad by the innumerable feints of conspiracy.  Both views have value even if they can be exhausting.  I think, I hope that we'll eventually agree that we've been and continue to be assaulted by misinformation for some time now, propagated by organizations and interests that don't give a shit about us as a country or individuals except for how we can serve them.  Walter was wrong.  Be afraid of the nihilists, because they're only too happy to turn us against each other.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Degenerate Gardner

[XingTheRubicon 134]

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He is actively undermining the 1st Amendment when he calls the press "the enemy of the people".  This is not acceptable from POTUS.

The fact that right-wing bootlickers don't get it is (a) unsurprising and (b) infuriating.  Again, go back to 8th grade and crack open a Civics text.

Speaking of civics...

Your feelings being hurt doesn't violate the 1st amendment.  Your ignorance is infinite.

[Anastasis 23703]

11 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Sounds like Mueller report is hundreds of pages, 700 just came up on msnbc.

  By comparison, the Starr report per WaPo:

”Starr and his team at the Office of the Independent Counsel sent a 453-page report (plus 2,000 pages of appendixes) to Congress”

NYT reporting 300+ pages.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/kids/other/mueller-report-exceeds-300-pages-raising-questions-about-four-page-summary/ar-BBVljs7?li=BBnb7Kz

For reference point, the indictments against Kiliminik, the IRA, and Neykysko are approximately 90 pages aggregate.  Tack on the Gates, Manafort and Stone indictments/statement of offense and you are at ~200. 

[jimmyjazz 46986]

5 minutes ago, XingTheRubicon said:

Speaking of civics...

Your feelings being hurt doesn't violate the 1st amendment.  Your ignorance is infinite.

Well, add a reading class to the civics class.  I didn't say he violated the 1st Amendment.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

NYT reporting 300+ pages.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/kids/other/mueller-report-exceeds-300-pages-raising-questions-about-four-page-summary/ar-BBVljs7?li=BBnb7Kz

For reference point, the indictments against Kiliminik, the IRA, and Neykysko are approximately 90 pages aggregate.  Tack on the Gates, Manafort and Stone indictments/statement of offense and you are at ~200. 

We have no idea if the 300+ page number includes appendixes.

If the report is formatted anything like the Starr report, that’s a lot of information. 

However, it will likely be formatted nothing like the Starr report. 

[XingTheRubicon 134]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Well, add a reading class to the civics class.  I didn't say he violated the 1st Amendment.

So, the civics test you suggested would reference your feelings being hurt?  

 

 

btw, you never did thank me for teaching you about the Trump tower setup meetings

[David Dennison 19441]

Wow.

They are actually going to blow this political gift.

I can't say I'm surprised.

[HornPhD 1387]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We have no idea if the 300+ page number includes appendixes.

If the report is formatted anything like the Starr report, that’s a lot of information. 

However, it will likely be formatted nothing like the Starr report. 

Text is probably double-spaced with 12.5 font with at least one table on each page. They probably messed with the margins, as well. 

[Anastasis 23703]

First search function when the report is released: "Investigation did not establish".

The first question in my mind is what immediately precedes the quote... "[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” 

Hypothesis: "While the investigation revealed a number points of contact between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and individuals associated with the Russian government, t...." 

[RomaVicta 30508]

12 hours ago, williemackgarza said:

Democrats been calling trump a traitor and accusing him of colluding with russia since day one

Actually not true. On this board and even in Congress there was circumspection regarding the degree of Trump's involvement with the Russians. The fury and accusations of him being a traitor followed revelations of his campaigns contacts with Russia and the fact that everybody associated with Trump  was lying about them. 

The circumspect response followed Flynn's resignation, Kushner's back channel communication set-up with Russia, and even initial reports about the Trump Tower meeting. The increasing clarity about the Trump Tower meeting despite the lying about it, the indictments, the convictions, and the continued apparent cover-up triggered the growing vehemence against Trump. 

His charity has been shut down. He got a 2 billion dollar loan from a crooked bank when his credit was shit, Trump's statement that he had no business in Russia when he had a major deal cooking there is more than suspicious. 

Of course, an unpublished report has overturned these suspicions. We have a summary written by a Trump appointee and the suppression of the report's contents. All doubt about Trump's character, practices, and possible criminal activity are all cleared up! We got a summary!

The "day one" hysteria has been characteristic of Trump's supporters/apologists. Look at the crowing and claims moments after the summary was made public. It's one giant, "See, stupid lib Dems, Trump is cleared of all wrong doing! It was a witch hunt!" Where's the circumspection?

The summary does not erase my knowledge of the lies, the evidence that supports ongoing criminal investigations, nor does it erase my ability to draw my own conclusions about a man who surrounds himself with liars, unregistered foreign agents, frauds, and self-serving robber barons.

He's a piece of shit who lives for his own gain and glory. He has no scruple. He has no honor. He has not one ounce of decency. He doesn't understand what this country is supposed to be, and he doesn't care.

He's the prominent bubo announcing the plague that has infected a substantial segment of the electorate. To stand with him is to bathe in pus. 

 

[Anastasis 23703]

3 minutes ago, HornPhD said:

Text is probably double-spaced with 12.5 font with at least one table on each page. They probably messed with the margins, as well. 

Appendix 123 Dickbutt

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Wow.

They are actually going to blow this political gift.

I can't say I'm surprised.

Dude, both parties can get away with blowing their dick off right now and have a lifetime left to recover. 

People have already forgotten about the government shutdown and the fake national emergency and that was a month ago.

If there was ever a time for the democrats to go hard to the paint now is the time and the Mueller report is a hill worth dying on.

The voters aren’t going to disapprove of the democrats trying to make the Mueller report public ASAP.  

[Lagunamadre 1975]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We have no idea if the 300+ page number includes appendixes.

If the report is formatted anything like the Starr report, that’s a lot of information. 

However, it will likely be formatted nothing like the Starr report. 

So we will not learn wether or not Stormy would not let Trump go down on her because she was on her period? Let's get Starr Report transparent. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

2 hours ago, retread said:

 

wow, look at this libertarian at work!

fuck rand paul, he's a piece of trash.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

39 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He is actively undermining the 1st Amendment when he calls the press "the enemy of the people".  This is not acceptable from POTUS.

The fact that right-wing bootlickers don't get it is (a) unsurprising and (b) infuriating.  Again, go back to 8th grade and crack open a Civics text.

It's inexcusable when the press reports things they haven't vetted. They in fact become enemies of the citizens of the nation thru reckless, self serving reporting of un substantiated fact. 

[David Dennison 19441]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's inexcusable when the press reports things they haven't vetted. They in fact become enemies of the citizens of the nation thru reckless, self serving reporting of un substantiated fact. 

Except a lot of the things you consider unvetted are, in fact, vetted.

[jimmyjazz 46986]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's inexcusable when the press reports things they haven't vetted. They in fact become enemies of the citizens of the nation thru reckless, self serving reporting of un substantiated fact. 

So what should we do, execute all members of the press?  I mean, them being our enemies and all.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Except a lot of the things you consider unvetted are, in fact, vetted.

Are you even vetted ?

[David Dennison 19441]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Are you even vetted ?

Yes, actually. 

You should feel silly.

[RomaVicta 30508]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

In his very next tweet, he falsely claims the Mueller report has been released by substituting for the Barr letter.  And you have Caputo on Fox speaking directly to Trump about pardoning everyone charged to date.  Yesterday, Trump on Fox about Barr “a great gentlemen" & a "great man... So incredible... A very special person.”

Every move and every utterance looks like a cover-up and nothing else.  They know the Mueller report will bear no resemblance to Barr's letter or his partisan intervention.  This is TrumpCo's window of opportunity before the evidentiary tide turns.

Rush was calling for massive pardons as he lied about the investigation, the dossier, and the Clintons. 

They really sound desperate and shrill about using this window between the summary and full report releases to hurl up a stone wall.  It's not a new tactic for the right. Seize a moment that can be used as an end point and then reject all future reference to the issue as "old news."

The amateur operatives around here will be all over it.

[David Dennison 19441]

5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Rush was calling for massive pardons as he lied about the investigation, the dossier, and the Clintons. 

They really sound desperate and shrill about using this window between the summary and full report releases to hurl up a stone wall.  It's not a new tactic for the right. Seize a moment that can be used as an end point and then reject all future reference to the issue as "old news."

The amateur operatives around here will be all over it.

Every day that goes by without the full report being released makes the administration appear to be hiding something and the AG to be nothing more than a political operative. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

16 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's inexcusable when the press reports things they haven't vetted. They in fact become enemies of the citizens of the nation thru reckless, self serving reporting of un substantiated fact. 

If only you had the same standard for the fucking President of the United States 

[retread 2951]

Desperate is a good word for RushFoxRepubs. Also, every day that passes makes it more likely that they can get away with hiding parts of the report.

[Foosters 18232]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's inexcusable when the press reports things they haven't vetted. They in fact become enemies of the citizens of the nation thru reckless, self serving reporting of un substantiated fact. 

Serious question: What unsubstantiated facts have the major news orgs gotten wrong?