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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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American Swindle

American Swindle 102

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, elguapo said:

Wanting to know whether or not the fucking POTUS is compromised by a foreign government = obsessing over conspiracy theories to these brainwashed morons.  Sad

 

This coming from someone who for a long time believed, and perhaps still does, that 9/11 was an inside job.  But yeah, everyone else is obsessed with conspiracy theories.

So would you agree the MSM's coverage of the alleged collusion for the past 2+years was not at all obsessive?  

Are you happy that he was found not colluding with Russia? I am. 

Funny you bring up 9/11. I've grown to realize it's not something that is productive to speak on with the general circus going folk.  I basically concluded that nothing is out of the realm of possibility when it comes to the corruptible nature of human beings.  Having said that,  I probably have very few posts in 9/11 forums (none on here) and mostly on Shaggy, but never obsessed on pushing it to the level that the radical lefties on this board have pushed the Russia-Trump Collusion conspiracy theory.  I gave my 2 cents and that was that so their you have it. 

 

Now try having some humility for once. 

 

 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Every day that goes by without the full report being released makes the administration appear to be hiding something and the AG to be nothing more than a political operative. 

pretty much this. 

even foxnews contributor judge napolitano comes to this conclusion:

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

Posted
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6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Couldn’t a prosecutor use Trump’s year long verbal assault on the investigation, public berating of key witnesses, and constant complaints about Sessions recusing himself (ultimately ending in his termination) as evidence of a pattern of obstruction and/or consciousness of guilt?  

 

ETA:  I’d love to see a skilled prosecutor lay out all the publicly known supporting evidence of obstruction and see how a skilled defense attorney would respond to it. 

Another thing occurred to me, perhaps the Barr letter could bolster the case for obstruction given the nature of his installation, his unsolicited memo regarding obstruction, and his interest in being Trump’s defense attorney prior to his nomination.  The conflict of interest seems significant and possibly troubling to a jury. 

Pattern evidence, maybe, be tough to get admitted.  Barr evidence, nowai, I don't believe.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18659

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Posted

I'd love to know the reason WHY Mueller could not establish conspiracy.

Was it lack of enough admissible evidence? Was it too many impeachable witnesses? Was it the fact that many of the witnesses are currently in Russia?

Even if the report doesn't answer these questions, I'd still like to know how Robert Mueller came to his decision not to move forward with criminal charges against the Trump family.

 

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elguapo

elguapo 4583

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

So would you agree the MSM's coverage of the alleged collusion for the past 2+years was not at all obsessive?  

 

It's a huge story, this is what the American MSM does.

10 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Are you happy that he was found not colluding with Russia? I am. 

 

I'm happy that there is no proof of a conspiracy within the Trump campaign to coordinate with Russia on the attack on our election.  But that's not enough.  I want to know if the investigation found evidence that Trump is compromised by Russia.  I want to know what the investigation found regarding the motives for everyone in the Trump orbit lying about and covering up their contacts with Russia.

14 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

at is productive to speak on with the general circus going folk.  I basically concluded that nothing is out of the realm of possibility when it comes to the corruptible nature of human beings.  Having said that,  I probably have very few posts in 9/11 forums (none on here) and mostly on Shaggy, but never obsessed on pushing it to the level that the radical lefties on this board have pushed the Russia-Trump Collusion conspiracy theory.  I gave my 2 cents and that was that so their you have it. 

 

I just found it ironic that a 9/11 truther would be preaching to "lefties" about obsessing over conspiracy theories.  By the way, many on here including myself don't consider ourselves lefties, I'm anti Trump because he's a corrupt POS conman who I believe is likely compromised by a foreign government.

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Again, and this cannot be stressed enough, we have no idea if the Mueller report says Donald Trump did not collude with Russia. 

All we know is that the AG says that Mueller came to the conclusion that collusion could not be established.

Interesting how, in the information age, the 'facts' of the case are found in the book report of the conflicted, stooge AG and not the full report, which could be electronically sent to 95% of Americans' inboxes in a few seconds. 

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Lat22

Lat22 3994

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, retread said:

Desperate is a good word for RushFoxRepubs. Also, every day that passes makes it more likely that they can get away with hiding parts of the report.

You don’t think that if Barr was covering stuff up, Mueller or one of his 19 Trump hating investigators would be all over TV? More delusion from your side. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

So would you agree the MSM's coverage of the alleged collusion for the past 2+years was not at all obsessive?  

Are you happy that he was found not colluding with Russia? I am. 

Andrew Napolitano, one of Trump's favorite FOX commentators, and an attorney, law school professor, and former NJ Superior court justice deduces that there is evidence of collusion in Mueller's report:

Quote

“In the 700-page summary of the two million pages of raw evidence, there is undoubtedly some evidence of a conspiracy and some evidence of obstruction of justice, just not enough evidence—I’m thinking the way I believe Congressman Schiff is thinking—according to Attorney General Barr, not enough evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard.”

Napolitano went on to note that if “there were no evidence of conspiracy and no evidence of obstruction, the attorney general would have told us so,” adding that Barr didn’t, so “there is something there” that Democrats and Trump opponents want to see. And they’ll have a “field day” with it.

 

I think that's pretty sound reasoning.  Do you?

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I'd love to know the reason WHY Mueller could not establish conspiracy.

Was it lack of enough admissible evidence? Was it too many impeachable witnesses? Was it the fact that many of the witnesses are currently in Russia?

Even if the report doesn't answer these questions, I'd still like to know how Robert Mueller came to his decision not to move forward with criminal charges against the Trump family.

 

That's an intended (and misleading) understanding of Barr's letter.  First, it was indeterminate.  Second, indeterminate had to do with parsing Trump the individual colluding Russian government, as opposed to having a working operational understanding through a non-campaign associate like Roger Stone.  Second, there's additional parsing in Barr's letter around whether coordination occurred wrt IRA troll farm vs DNC hack and release.  Barr used that in 'shell gaming' his letter.  Third, there is a mountain of evidence in the Mueller report that Barr's letter simply omits from addressing in his 4 page letter.  Dupes will assume that if he omitted commenting on it, it's because there's nothing to see.  wrong-o.

The actual Mueller report will illustrate a much larger picture with much more evidentiary detail, similar to what Schiff outlined to committee GOP traitors this morning.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29793

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Serious question: What unsubstantiated facts have the major news orgs gotten wrong?  

 

42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

giphy.gif

 

40 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Sure it does.  For nuts like you.  

Bang. Typical right wing responses.

Laughing accompanied by: We don't have to tell what everybody (the cult) knows. These truths are self-evident, stupid sip.

Accusation that you are crazy. A wacko. A deluded lib with hidden agendas and nothing but scorn for what makes this a great country.

 

The right's way of appealing to Idiot World.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

Posted
Posted
Just now, Foosters said:

Should be pretty easy then, right?

Indeed. Strictly Russia related:

Mueller has evidence that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress - Buzzfeed

Flynn will testify that Trump ordered him to coordinate with Russia during campaign- ABC

Jr had advance access to wikileaks email prior to release - CNN

Scaramooch under investigation for involvement with Russian investment fund - CNN

Manafort coordinated with Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy - Guardian

Mueller can place Cohen in Prague - McClatchy

Cohen prepared to testify that Trump knew in advance about Trump Tower meeting - CNN

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I'd love to know the reason WHY Mueller could not establish conspiracy.

Was it lack of enough admissible evidence? Was it too many impeachable witnesses? Was it the fact that many of the witnesses are currently in Russia?

Even if the report doesn't answer these questions, I'd still like to know how Robert Mueller came to his decision not to move forward with criminal charges against the Trump family.

 

The criminal conspiracy charge always seemed like a hard mountain to climb because the Russians and the Trump campaign were so sloppy when they got together.  There probably was no master conspiracy plan between Trump himself and the Kremlin, because Trump is too fucking dumb.  Puppets don’t collude, they perform (yes, I stole that).  It seemed like the Russians were trying to run a bunch of little independent conspiracies at the same time (NRA, GOP platform, sanctions relief, Mideast nuclear deal, Trump Tower Moscow)

I’d speculate they found plenty of evidence with Manafort engaging in a criminal conspiracy with Russians but they decided to hit him with the easier to prove and more consequential finance charges (Al Capone tax evasion situation).  Even after indictment, he conspired with Kilimnik, the GRU guy, to obstruct justice and Mueller charged both of them.  Gates was likely in on the Manafort stuff too.

No idea what all Flynn gave them or his level of involvement but he would have been in on the data operation side.

Stone probably knew he was working with the Russians but he didn’t give a flying fuck because he’s a villain and loves being a villain.  His odd departure from the campaign also gave him a thin layer of plausible deniability.  He is going to prison.

I have no idea on Kushner but he’s the shadiest mofo in the whole operation.

Anyway, the Trump angle of the Russian attack is small when you step back and look at the BIG conspiracy the Russians pulled off all by themselves.

The best way to imagine this is if Ted Cruz was the GOP nomination and not flirting with the Russians out in the open.

The social media active measures shadow campaign and grey propaganda sites would have still happened hurting Hillary and likely boosting Cruz.

The state election databases would have also been hacked.

All the Wikileaks shit would have gone down the same way except I don’t know if Cruz would have weaponized and promoted it like Trump. 

Bottom line is whatever Trump might have done is nothing compared to what Russia did. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The Trump era's driven us all a little/lot crazy/crazier. 

No doubt. Most of us have been posting and exchanging thoughts and different perspectives on these boards for nearly two decades. The political discourse was always chippy at times, but typically mutually respectful outside cases where well earned. That substantially changed post 11/09/16. Some people generally, and some posters here in particular, lost their fucking mind.  

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

 

Bang. Typical right wing responses.

Laughing accompanied by: We don't have to tell what everybody (the cult) knows. These truths are self-evident, stupid sip.

Accusation that you are crazy. A wacko. A deluded lib with hidden agendas and nothing but scorn for what makes this a great country.

 

The right's way of appealing to Idiot World.

There's a good compilation - the delusions continue

 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think that's pretty sound reasoning.  Do you?

Yup. I think that's sound reasoning. However, I'm not sure your Average American is going to understand evidence.

If your next door neighbor is murdered, and your fingerprints are on a gun in their house, that would be evidence.

The fact that you let your next door neighbor borrow your gun doesn't change that fact. 

Edited by Cheeseweasel
Fuck off Aggie edit system
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted (edited)

Johnny sack and the right wing trumpkin brigade seem to be under the impression that the American people will just swallow the Barr drink napkin report and don’t need to see the actual mueller report before making up their mind.

It will come out and it will be damning. Trumps lie that the Barr dinner napkin report is it and continuing evil turtle obstruction  efforts are a huge tell. 

Edited by JimmyJames
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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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Posted
2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Johnny sack and the right wing trumpkin brigade

Outside of a handful of trolls, I think this discussion has been pretty good. I think anyone thinking they are going to change anyone's mind on this is naive. But keep pretending you want to have an honest discussion when you post shit like this.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Outside of a handful of trolls, I think this discussion has been pretty good. I think anyone thinking they are going to change anyone's mind on this is naive. But keep pretending you want to have an honest discussion when you post shit like this.

I’ll have an honest discussion about the mueller report after I get a chance to read it. 

Right now all I see are trump and his sycophants declaring victory and demanding retribution while the same time obstructing the release of the same report that supposedly exonerates dear leader. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

I’ll have an honest discussion about the mueller report after I get a chance to read it. 

Right now all I see are trump and his sycophants declaring victory and demanding retribution while the same time obstructing the release of the same report that supposedly exonerates dear leader. 

You should stop watching Fox News, then.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29793

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Foosters said:

Serious question: What unsubstantiated facts have the major news orgs gotten wrong?  

 

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Indeed. Strictly Russia related:

Mueller has evidence that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress - Buzzfeed

Flynn will testify that Trump ordered him to coordinate with Russia during campaign- ABC

Jr had advance access to wikileaks email prior to release - CNN

Scaramooch under investigation for involvement with Russian investment fund - CNN

Manafort coordinated with Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy - Guardian

Mueller can place Cohen in Prague - McClatchy

Cohen prepared to testify that Trump knew in advance about Trump Tower meeting - CNN

 

 

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Perfect timing Roma.  Thanks. 

That would be a fail, amigo.

In saying those reports are "unsubstantiated," you realize that you are claiming the news sources had no source to lend any proof to their claim? Do you stand by that? 

The news sources I recognize from your quote, I would bet, all substantiate their claims from sources or direct quotes. Saying they are not substantiated is to say they are made from whole cloth.

A good example of unsubstantiated would be the claims that a report that no one in the public has seen exonerates the president of wrong-doing. That's some real unsustantiation there, my friend.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

You should stop watching Fox News, then.

Not that it matters but I never watch Fox News. I do check out their website though. 

More to the point, I’m not getting your point on that. Is Fox News demanding the report be released? 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23394

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

That would be a fail, amigo.

In saying those reports are "unsubstantiated," you realize that you are claiming the news sources had no source to lend any proof to their claim? Do you stand by that? 

The news sources I recognize from your quote, I would bet, all substantiate their claims from sources or direct quotes. Saying they are not substantiated is to say they are made from whole cloth.

 A good example of unsubstantiated would be the claims that a report that no one in the public has seen exonerates the president of wrong-doing. That's some real unsustantiation there, my friend.

giphy.gif

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No doubt. Most of us have been posting and exchanging thoughts and different perspectives on these boards for nearly two decades. The political discourse was always chippy at times, but typically mutually respectful outside cases where well earned. That substantially changed post 11/09/16. Some people generally, and some posters here in particular, lost their fucking mind.  

Oh, come on.  The Cloak Room was a highly contentious circle jerk dominated by conservatives who would tear into anyone who dared espouse an opinion that was even centrist, much less left of center.  It was no more respectful of differing opinions than this forum is right now, and it was that way for a decade at least.

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Foosters

Foosters 17733

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Indeed. Strictly Russia related:

Mueller has evidence that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress - Buzzfeed

Flynn will testify that Trump ordered him to coordinate with Russia during campaign- ABC

Jr had advance access to wikileaks email prior to release - CNN

Scaramooch under investigation for involvement with Russian investment fund - CNN

Manafort coordinated with Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy - Guardian

Mueller can place Cohen in Prague - McClatchy

Cohen prepared to testify that Trump knew in advance about Trump Tower meeting - CNN

 

thanks

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted
7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh, come on.  The Cloak Room was a highly contentious circle jerk dominated by conservatives who would tear into anyone who dared espouse an opinion that was even centrist, much less left of center.  It was no more respectful of differing opinions than this forum is right now, and it was that way for a decade at least.

Exactly. Which was why I completely ignored it until the nutjobs went too far and somehow elected a stupid narcissist realty tv fraud to be the actual fucking president. That’s when I started posting on these forums. Check out the scat site if you want to verify. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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35 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Johnny sack and the right wing trumpkin brigade seem to be under the impression that the American people will just swallow the Barr drink napkin report and don’t need to see the actual mueller report before making up their mind.

It will come out and it will be damning. Trumps lie that the Barr dinner napkin report is it and continuing evil turtle obstruction  efforts are a huge tell. 

I’d be weary of the WH releasing another Barr Report and declaring victory again. 

I wouldn’t put it past them. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’d be weary of the WH releasing another Barr Report and declaring victory again. 

I wouldn’t put it past them. 

I don’t put anything at all past them, but I don’t see that working. 

Thank God the dems won the house or you would be right. 

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