The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Anastasis 23469]

43 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

Heard report will be lightly redacted. That will be a surprise if true.

This is the WaPo reporting. Redactiongate may end up a greater let down than Russiagate.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23469]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's almost like there's been an ongoing investigation into those details or something. It's just astounding how you give such deep skepticism to anything negative about the trump admin, and yet you are so willing to give that admin the benefit of the doubt on a mountain of issues that you attack #bothsides for

My skepticism of the Russian collusion delusion, going back quite a ways, has been based on the belief that the Trump campaign was not capable of coordinating with themselves much less with Russia intelligence in some grand conspiracy. I've been calling Page a Grade A fucking moron for as long as I remember, since I first saw him open his mouth. I believe that I said he devalued PhDs across the globe by virtue of his existence. And Stone a reckless buffoon. Manafort was the real exposure imo. Extended financially, trying to fend off some really bad people by puffing himself up, versed in the black arts.  I can quote posts back to 2017 basically verbatim on these points. But grab your #bothsides blanket and wrap up. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Anastasis

[TwiceHorn 31451]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

They'll get it.

I wouldn't be so sure.  Ongoing investigation isn't guarded by Barr, or Trump, it's guarded by the investigators themselves (e.g. SD NY, D DC, ED Va, NY AG, etc.etc.), and Congress has almost no oversight power over ongoing investigations.  Same is true with respect to national security information, but Congress has some oversight authority there (intel committees with clearances), as opposed to the purely executive function of criminal investigation/prosecution.

When the investigations are over, or the indictments filed, is when any of that will come out.

There's little precedent for this other than common-or-garden ongoing investigations, because special counsel/independent prosecutors rarely or never finish with ongoing investigations.  In the common-or-garden context, it's nearly inviolate.

Edited April 18, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Blotto 23498]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is the WaPo reporting. Redactiongate may end up a greater let down than Russiagate.

OK Anastasis, because your "both sides" tap dancing makes it hard to understand where you stand on anything, and I dont want to put words in your mouth, I'll ask you a few questions:

1.) Is it your personal opinion that Trump is 100% in the clear regarding allegations that his campaign conspired with Russian intelligence to influence the 2016 election?

2.) Was this entire investigation a "witch hunt" , instigated by the circulation of a phony dossier that has been unequivacally proven to be false in all allegations against Trump?

3.) Do you believe this "witch hunt" is the product of a deep state conspiracy, aided by corrupt intelligence agencies to undermine democracy?

 

[Captainant 27655]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

My skepticism of the Russian collusion delusion, going back quite a ways, has been based on the belief that the Trump campaign was not capable of coordinating with themselves much less with Russia intelligence in some grand conspiracy. I've been calling Page a Grade A fucking moron for as long as I remember, since I first saw him open his mouth. I believe that I said he devalued PhDs across the globe by virtue of his existence. And Stone a reckless buffoon. Manafort was the real exposure imo. Extended financially, trying to fend off some really bad people by puffing himself up, versed in the black arts.  I can quote posts back to 2017 basically verbatim on these points. But grab your #bothsides blanket and wrap up. 

Well, you can't apply #bothsides to russia, because only trump went to that well. So I don't know why you're now claiming that's what we're prescribing to you. When we say #bothsides at you, we're referencing your pattern of deflecting from and defending trump's actions when he violates norms and (non-legally-binding) rules, claiming that both sides do it, so why care now?

Also, love how you managed to criticize and introduce to the conversation the people around trump THAT NOBODY BUT YOU IS TALKING ABOUT WITH REGARD TO THE MUELLER REPORT. Seeing great development in your skills to move an argument away from trump's bad actions, you've come a long way in deflecting. 

[David Dennison 18854]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  Ongoing investigation isn't guarded by Barr, or Trump, it's guarded by the investigators themselves (e.g. SD NY, D DC, ED Va, NY AG, etc.etc.), and Congress has almost no oversight power over ongoing investigations.

When the investigations are over, or the indictments filed, is when any of that will come out.

There's little precedent for this other than common-or-garden ongoing investigations, because special counsel/independent prosecutors rarely or never finish with ongoing investigations.  In the common-or-garden context, it's nearly inviolate.

I get all of that. I just think we're going to see the entirety of the Mueller report, unredacted, one way or another. 

[immortal13 4059]

Did they find anything yet? Asking for a friend...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Can’t help but laugh at Trump’s AG going full Baghdad Bob in the morning. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Did they find anything yet? Asking for a friend...

Yeah it’s in the report. Well let you know once we’ve gotten a chance to read it. 

[immortal13 4059]

Can't wait...

[TwiceHorn 31451]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I get all of that. I just think we're going to see the entirety of the Mueller report, unredacted, one way or another. 

A leak seems plausible, yes.  But there are completely legitimate reasons why both the public version and any version released to Congress generally should be redacted. 

Redacted doesn't need to mean incomprehensible.  I submit that the royal we can probably get 90-plus percent of it from a redacted version.

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Can’t help but laugh at Trump’s AG going full Baghdad Bob in the morning. 

That's exactly what it is. I'm sure there will be an IT snafu that will prevent the release of the report until next week.

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, Blotto said:

OK Anastasis, because your "both sides" tap dancing makes it hard to understand where you stand on anything, and I dont want to put words in your mouth, I'll ask you a few questions:

 1.) Is it your personal opinion that Trump is 100% in the clear regarding allegations that his campaign conspired with Russian intelligence to influence the 2016 election?

 2.) Was this entire investigation a "witch hunt" , instigated by the circulation of a phony dossier that has been unequivacally proven to be false in all allegations against Trump?

 3.) Do you believe this "witch hunt" is the product of a deep state conspiracy, aided by corrupt intelligence agencies to undermine democracy?

 

1) I don't think that the Trump campaign was capable of coordinating effectively amongst themselves, much less Russia intelligence wrt content development or micro targeting of Russian influence operations.  I think that it was amateur hour all around. 

2) I think that abuses of constitutional protections wrt American citizens took place during the initiation and conduct of the investigation. I think that the IG report will hopefully shed more light on these abuses, but I won't hold my breath. I do have concerns that political opposition research was inserted into the justice process and was used as a pivotal basis for FISA surveillance of American citizens. The numerous conflicts of interest are reason enough for concern.  But civil liberties and the surveillance state are of little concern apparently.  

3) I wouldn't use that exact formulation; however, I do believe that the intelligence apparatus of this country is corrupt and works to undermine democracy around the world and the US constitution at home. I think that Russian intelligence was running multiple operations intended to influence  US intelligence activities and to tilt the election, and those operations executed with a high level of success. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  Ongoing investigation isn't guarded by Barr, or Trump, it's guarded by the investigators themselves (e.g. SD NY, D DC, ED Va, NY AG, etc.etc.), and Congress has almost no oversight power over ongoing investigations.  Same is true with respect to national security information, but Congress has some oversight authority there (intel committees with clearances), as opposed to the purely executive function of criminal investigation/prosecution.

When the investigations are over, or the indictments filed, is when any of that will come out.

There's little precedent for this other than common-or-garden ongoing investigations, because special counsel/independent prosecutors rarely or never finish with ongoing investigations.  In the common-or-garden context, it's nearly inviolate.

You make some damn good points. Damn good.

But fuck all that. Just release the report and let the public decide. Afterwards you can sue whomever you want to for it’s unauthorized release. God speed. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

COMPACT DISCS Y’ALL

[Anastasis 23469]

10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well, you can't apply #bothsides to russia, because only trump went to that well.

Steele, funded by the DNC, inserted work product based on feeds from russian intelligence into the FBI surveillance apparatus.  These are not contested facts.   

[TwiceHorn 31451]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

You make some damn good points. Damn good.

But fuck all that. Just release the report and let the public decide. Afterwards you can sue whomever you want to for it’s unauthorized release. God speed. 

Put it this way.  Release of ongoing investigation information could jeopardize the prosecutions of Ivanka, Donny-boy, Eric the Rad, and Kush.  We can't have that, now, can we?

Similarly, national security information could let the rooskies know about our capabilities and how we're onto them.  Saudis and other malefactors, as well.  That would truly be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Edited April 18, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TxTower 650]

Tomorrow’s the big day!

[jimmyjazz 45899]

38 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's almost like there's been an ongoing investigation into those details or something. It's just astounding how you give such deep skepticism to anything negative about the trump admin, and yet you are so willing to give that admin the benefit of the doubt on a mountain of issues that you attack #bothsides for

Anastasis is destroying whatever goodwill he earned around here.  I'm admittedly a chump for buying into the idea that he was just a cynical good guy.  He's apparently no better than Onboard, Chrispy, ChickenSammich or any of the other hard right trolls.  Fuck him.  Life is far too short to give that kind of person the benefit of the doubt.

Congratulations, dude.  You're actually alienating #bothsides.

Edited April 18, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Put it this way.  Release of ongoing investigation information could jeopardize the prosecutions of Ivanka, Donny-boy, Eric the Rad, and Kush.  We can't have that, now, can we?

Assuming you’re right, which is a big assumption, those are sure fire trump “I don’t give a fuck” pardons.

So unless you think the material is gonna hamper the state of New York AG investigation and prosecution, then who gives a fuck.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Steele, funded by the DNC, inserted work product based on feeds from russian intelligence into the FBI surveillance apparatus.  These are not contested facts.   

  Steele witnessed a crime and reported it to the FBI.

The FBI investigated. However, the FBI was already investigating the Trump campaign connections to Russia before Steele contacted the FBI.

Who funded the Dossier is irrelevant.  

[jimmyjazz 45899]

33 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

My skepticism of the Russian collusion delusion, going back quite a ways, has been based on the belief that the Trump campaign was not capable of coordinating with themselves much less with Russia intelligence in some grand conspiracy. I've been calling Page a Grade A fucking moron for as long as I remember, since I first saw him open his mouth. I believe that I said he devalued PhDs across the globe by virtue of his existence. And Stone a reckless buffoon. Manafort was the real exposure imo. Extended financially, trying to fend off some really bad people by puffing himself up, versed in the black arts.  I can quote posts back to 2017 basically verbatim on these points. But grab your #bothsides blanket and wrap up. 

Nah, you're a Trumpkin.  You just concealed it better than most.

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

@Anastasis is destroying whatever goodwill he earned around here.  I'm admittedly a chump for buying into the idea that he was just a cynical good guy.  He's apparently no better than Onboard, Chrispy, ChickenSammich or any of the other hard right trolls.  Fuck him.

Sorry you see it that way man. The delusional circle jerk has a strong central mass.

[Captainant 27655]

 

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Steele, funded by the DNC, inserted work product based on feeds from russian intelligence into the FBI surveillance apparatus.  These are not contested facts.   

So your argument is that russian intel is sooooo good that they tricked the FBI into investigating trump illegally? Via the clinton campaign? And that the FBI would have had no other reason to be looking into a multinational real estate debtor who suddenly started paying in cash, in addition to hiring people into his campaign who were already under surveillance?

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

1) I don't think that the Trump campaign was capable of coordinating effectively amongst themselves, much less Russia intelligence wrt content development or micro targeting of Russian influence operations.  I think that it was amateur hour all around. 

2) I think that abuses of constitutional protections wrt American citizens took place during the initiation and conduct of the investigation. I think that the IG report will hopefully shed more light on these abuses, but I won't hold my breath. I do have concerns that political opposition research was inserted into the justice process and was used as a pivotal basis for FISA surveillance of American citizens. The numerous conflicts of interest are reason enough for concern.  But civil liberties and the surveillance state are of little concern apparently.  

3) I wouldn't use that exact formulation; however, I do believe that the intelligence apparatus of this country is corrupt and works to undermine democracy around the world and the US constitution at home. I think that Russian intelligence was running multiple operations intended to influence  US intelligence activities and to tilt the election, and those operations executed with a high level of success. 

And so, you think that russian intel is highly successful in penetrating american politics to cause chaos - BUT - you don't think that trump is getting help from the russians in some form, even unknowingly? And because he was only being manipulated instead of being complicit, that makes everything cool in terms of constitutionally mandated oversight?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Captainant

[TwiceHorn 31451]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Assuming you’re right, which is a big assumption, those are sure fire trump “I don’t give a fuck” pardons.

So unless you think the material is gonna hamper the state of New York AG investigation and prosecution, then who gives a fuck.

I might assume that the Trump fils et fille are on the hook for financial type crimes, as opposed to election type crimes (which is why Mueller referred them out), in which case I might guess that NY state authorities are on the case and probably loath to have the details of their investigations revealed. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Sorry you see it that way man. The delusional circle jerk has a strong central mass.

Sorry but you have been kind of showing your ass around here lately. Because your stance is innoposite to the board at large doesn’t make us delusional. It just makes you a contrarian. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Captainant said:

So your argument is that russian intel is sooooo good that they tricked the FBI into investigating trump illegally? Via the clinton campaign? And that the FBI would have had no other reason to be looking into a multinational real estate debtor who suddenly started paying in cash, in addition to hiring people into his campaign who were already under surveillance?

And so, you think that russian intel is highly successful in penetrating american politics to cause chaos - BUT - you don't think that trump is getting help from the russians in some form, even unknowingly? And because he was only being manipulated instead of being complicit, that makes everything cool in terms of constitutionally mandated oversight?

I think that the single greatest influence on the outcome of the 2016 election was a Russian intelligence operation that ran directly through James Comey intended to influence his handling of the Clinton investigation, ultimately tilting the election to Trump. 

[David Dennison 18854]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Sorry you see it that way man. The delusional circle jerk has a strong central mass.

100 plus contacts are just a coincidence.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I might assume that the Trump fils et fille are on the hook for financial type crimes, as opposed to election type crimes (which is why Mueller referred them out), in which case I might guess that NY state authorities are on the case.

Ok. Maybe so. Would that material be included in his report then? Because I would think it wouldn’t. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I might assume that the Trump fils et fille are on the hook for financial type crimes, as opposed to election type crimes (which is why Mueller referred them out), in which case I might guess that NY state authorities are on the case and probably loath to have the details of their investigations revealed. 

Financial crimes, in particular those aligned to international real estate transactions have always been the end game. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

So I'm listening to Chris Cuomo as I'm driving home. He must have read what I wrote here last night. Move on, nothing to see here. There's no evidence. Impeachment is for serious crimes, it isn't happening. Dude damn near stole my lines. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Thetexashammer

[Captainant 27655]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I think that the single greatest influence on the outcome of the 2016 election was a Russian intelligence operation that ran directly through James Comey intended to influence his handling of the Clinton investigation, ultimately tilting the election to Trump. 

And that trump's actions leading up to the election, including but not limited to, LITERALLY ASKING RUSSIA TO HACK HER EMAILS AT A CAMPAIGN RALLY followed by attempts to do so by russian hackers within 24 hours, aren't even slightly concerning and an indicator of possible coordination?

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Sorry but you have been kind of showing your ass around here lately. Because your stance is innoposite to the board at large doesn’t make us delusional. It just makes you a contrarian. 

I'll mark you in the Marshal of the Supreme Court has delivered impeachment notification to Trump camp with Triple. 

[Captainant 27655]

1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

So I'm listening to Chris Cuomo as I'm driving home. He must have read what I wrote here last night. Move on, nothing to see here. There's no evidence. Impeachment is for serious crimes, it isn't happening. Dude damn near stole my lines. 

That's not remotely close to what he said lmao. But keep on fuckin that hammer

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

And that trump's actions leading up to the election, including but not limited to, LITERALLY ASKING RUSSIA TO HACK HER EMAILS AT A CAMPAIGN RALLY followed by attempts to do so by russian hackers within 24 hours, aren't even slightly concerning and an indicator of possible coordination?

I predicted in 2017 that this is basically what we would be left with on the collusion front.  It happened right in front of our face in a news conference!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Then there was the Trump Tower meeting, the secret Kushner back channel, the sharing of polling data, the sanctions relief, and the secret Trump Tower Moscow deal with literally the Russian Government.

Then came all the lying about all of the above.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I'll mark you in the Marshal of the Supreme Court has delivered impeachment notification to Trump camp with Triple. 

I have no idea what this means so I’ll interpret it as a compliment and that you are thoroughly enjoying my internet posting skills. 

[Captainant 27655]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I predicted in 2017 that this is basically what we would be left with on the collusion front.  It happened right in front of our face in a news conference!

So, not "oh geeze, that IS concerning", but rather, "hAy GuIsE i WaS rIgHt!!!!"

Man, we're so lucky that you're here to connect all the dots for us

[triplehorn 2664]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Put it this way.  Release of ongoing investigation information could jeopardize the prosecutions of Ivanka, Donny-boy, Eric the Rad, and Kush.  We can't have that, now, can we?

Similarly, national security information could let the rooskies know about our capabilities and how we're onto them.  Saudis and other malefactors, as well.  That would truly be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Trump kids may appear in tomorrow's report in a bad light (or not), but in a context unrelated to specific ongoing investigations.  Congress will get to see a lot more in the near term based on reasons where it relates to matters of national security or initiation of an impeachment inquiry.  But yeah, the real legal bombs with TrumpCo names on them have been submarined to multiple other prosecutorial bodies.  Office of NYAG has reportedly had Trump Foundation/TrumpOrg teed up since Eliot Spitzer resigned.

[Gap03 3304]

45 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

...  Russian collusion delusion ...

Seeing someone type this series of words makes me want to go Hound on them ...

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Barr going to open an investigation into Uranium One and whatever the Clinton Haiti bullshit was. 

[Gatorubet 30213]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Y'all been gaslit by whacked out conspiracy theorists like triple and hugo on a collusion delusion for the last three years, but yeah let's make sure we call out the people laughing at this hysterical nonsense as the delusions crumble. SCOTUS Marshal at Arms still has a chance. Gazprom brokerage and Dumbfuck Carter Page Ph.D. masterminding this shit. 

Trumpkin comes out of the closet at long last.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's not remotely close to what he said lmao. But keep on fuckin that hammer

So I obviously have XM sirius. So I have XMSirius on Demand. So this is a quote.

Quote

At the end of the day it's going to matter or not to you as voters. That's all you're going to get out of this, is ammunition for political perspective. You're not going to get a prosecution of the president of the United States. You're not going to see him removed from office. It's not going to happen. I know there are better people, smarter people than me, who will say well we don't really know.  I'm telling you, don't set yourself up for disappointment. That's what I got.

.....

I think people like you were given a false sense of expectation of what was going to happen with this report. That it would end the presidency. And here's why. And then there were all these reasons about why this could be a crime and this could be a crime. And i never bought into that. Because I never saw the criminality. 

.....

You should have expected that his business past was going to be shady.

.....

I think it's good for you to realize that the realities of removing a president from office is hard. And it should be hard. And it should never be a function of just political displeasure. Impeachment, removal should be for high crimes and misdemeanors. Really bad stuff. Systematic abuse of office, abuse of power. Big, heavy stuff. Do we have that there? I haven't seen it. I've seen bad stuff, stuff he should be called out for. Lying to you guys is a big mistake.

I am 100% in agreement with Cuomo. He quite literally restated my position.

Captain, I hope for the best for you. You are having some kind of illness, and I hope you and your fellow travelers recover from it. I really do.

[Brandywine 1316]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

This was tonight’s episode.

Hannity is a piece of shit still hanging on to what’s already been hashed over by Republicans for years. He’s a slimy  weasel. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Brandywine

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Gotta give Jay Sekulow some props.  He’s managed to be Trump’s attorney the entire time.

He’s either in incredibly smart or insanely dumb.

 

[pwinger 35]

Wish sandwich

Served cold

Time to move on

 

[Anastasis 23469]

7 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Trumpkin comes out of the closet at long last.

I spent a few years training at the state hospital. It prepared me well for the Cloak Room. Unfortunately, fixed delusions such as those we are dealing with in this case are not very responsive to antipsychotics. 

[pwinger 35]

And not just cold, it's been sitting on the counter for 2 years

[Horn Dog 9818]

56 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That would truly be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The baby is dead.  There is no reason to believe the rule of law applies to Trump or his minions anymore.  Release the entire report.

[TwiceHorn 31451]

48 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Ok. Maybe so. Would that material be included in his report then? Because I would think it wouldn’t. 

I think that is the subject of proper redactions.  And ones that will be hard to punch through, legally.  I'm assuming that redactions will be judged on a FOIA-type standard:  is the government interest sufficiently high to outweigh the public (or Congressional) interest in disclosure.  National security and ongoing investigation stuff are nearly inviolate under such an analysis.  Grand jury stuff gets the Rule 9 analysis, and national security material could be revealed to the intel committees.  The peripheral third party stuff will depend on how peripheral they were.