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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31451

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

The baby is dead.  There is no reason to believe the rule of law applies to Trump or his minions anymore.  Release the entire report.

Huh?  You would sacrifice intelligence gathering methods and agent identities to the public and an ongoing threat to national security (Russia and others), none of which would seem to be critical to analyzing Trump's culpability, for the sake of your precious report?

There really is something of a perspective vortex here.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Huh?  You would sacrifice intelligence gathering methods and agent identities to the public and an ongoing threat to national security (Russia and others), none of which would seem to be critical to analyzing Trump's culpability, for the sake of your precious report?

Fuck yes. We were told this was the crime of the century. The most significant international interference towards the conduct of by god american democracy.  Release it all with all the underlying evidence and data feeds.  

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Huh?  You would sacrifice intelligence gathering methods and agent identities to the public and an ongoing threat to national security (Russia and others), none of which would seem to be critical to analyzing Trump's culpability, for the sake of your precious report?

Yeah, I'm against that too, but they should release the entire report to the House Intelligence Committee.  There's no way to stop congress from sending out a subpoena for Mueller anyway right?  All Barr is doing is ruining his name forever and delaying the inevitable.  I hope the juice is worth the squeeze...

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21152

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Fuck yes. We were told this was the crime of the century. The most significant international interference towards the conduct of by god american democracy.  Release it all with all the underlying evidence and data feeds.  

And if it turns out Russia is, in fact, in the middle of the crime of the century and we give up all the goods on that investigation to make the entire report public?   

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I spent a few years training at the state hospital. It prepared me well for the Cloak Room. Unfortunately, fixed delusions such as those we are dealing with in this case are not very responsive to antipsychotics. 

 

Here's some helpful glue for the brain :  Schiff, Not Barr

 

“...The Russians offered dirt on a Democratic candidate for president as part of what was described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign,” he said.

“When that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, the president’s son did not call the FBI, he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help. Instead that son said that he would love the help of the Russians.

“Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience in running campaigns, also took that meeting…. The president’s son-in-law also took that meeting…. They concealed it from the public…. Their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better.”

And Schiff kept going. Through Manafort’s offer of campaign information in exchange for debt forgiveness; through his offer of campaign polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence; through Jared Kushner’s attempt to open a Russian back channel; through Trumpworld contacts with the GRU (“a hostile intelligence agency”); through denied-but-true Moscow Trump Tower negotiations and the promulgation of a “new and more favorable policy toward the Russians” as Trump sought “the Russians’ help — the Kremlin’s help” to make himself a fortune.

Call me crazy, Schiff said, but it all strikes me as immoral, unethical, corrupt — and, yes, as collusion, even if it isn’t part of a criminal conspiracy [...]."

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31451

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yeah, I'm against that too, but they should release the entire report to the House Intelligence Committee.  There's no way to stop congress from sending out a subpoena for Mueller anyway right?  All Barr is doing is ruining his name forever and delaying the inevitable.  I hope the juice is worth the squeeze...

The intel committees have "the right" to see national security information, but not necessarily the other redacted information (most particularly grand jury and ongoing investigation material) in the absence of a court order.  A congressional subpoena is not a magic bullet for disclosure (it's complicated, but a party with facially legitimate grounds for resisting the subpoena can put up a hell of a fight and delay compliance for years if not forever).  Aside from things he's said about spying and his potential mischaracterization of the report, Barr is just following the law on the redactions.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

 

Here's some helpful glue for the brain :  Schiff, Not Barr

 

“...The Russians offered dirt on a Democratic candidate for president as part of what was described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign,” he said.

“When that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, the president’s son did not call the FBI, he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help. Instead that son said that he would love the help of the Russians.

“Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience in running campaigns, also took that meeting…. The president’s son-in-law also took that meeting…. They concealed it from the public…. Their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better.”

And Schiff kept going. Through Manafort’s offer of campaign information in exchange for debt forgiveness; through his offer of campaign polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence; through Jared Kushner’s attempt to open a Russian back channel; through Trumpworld contacts with the GRU (“a hostile intelligence agency”); through denied-but-true Moscow Trump Tower negotiations and the promulgation of a “new and more favorable policy toward the Russians” as Trump sought “the Russians’ help — the Kremlin’s help” to make himself a fortune.

Call me crazy, Schiff said, but it all strikes me as immoral, unethical, corrupt — and, yes, as collusion, even if it isn’t part of a criminal conspiracy [...]."

Also Triple, from 2017:

 

This put it in perpective for me: 

During the Comey testimony what jumped out was Comey reporting that they were aware of ongoing Russian efforts to attack our elections infrastructure as early as 2015. Read it again - since 2015. What that tells me is that surveillance of every kind imaginable was planned in advance of the earliest events coming together for Trump and anyone with ties to the Kremlin. When it's all said and done, I think what will be shocking is how much evidence is on tape- not wiretaps, but hot mics worn by bystanders and pre-planted directional microphones (think Mayflower Hotel affair, GOP convention, Paul Ryan's inner sanctum, etc.), and other recordings such as Comey's own phone (willingly).

There is so much classified evidence in play that will only be discussed in a protected setting that it's crowding out the usefulness of public testimony apart from hinting at how bad it is. Comey, Rogers, Coats in testimony, and any number of Congressmen briefed in SCIFS - they're not saying half of what they've got, and what they've got is damning. There's a mountain of evidence that we know is there and the individuals under investigation for collusion or a coverup include the highest levels of the WH Admin and Trump himself today.

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Jim Tom Pinch

Jim Tom Pinch 120

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, deech said:

If it exonerated him, they would release it tell everyone to fuck off and simply say we're going to focus on governing.  This dog and pony show revolves completely the issue of whether Barr's summary is a political hack job.

Well, no. That would be illegal. I’m assuming you’re not a complete fucking idiot and you understand that.

 

Maybe I’m wrong though.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Also Triple, from 2017:

I don't think I'd change much of anything about that. 

Tracking Russian incursions has been ongoing for years with a reported spike in new activity in 2015.  That tells you our IC had a bead on things before Trump had assembled a campaign.  The IG report, as it relates to Mueller's work, will show that evidence was legally obtained in the due course of a legitimate counterintelligence investigation that ultimately and substantively enveloped the WH and members of TrumpWorld.

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Barr misleading congress? I’m certain he would never do that.

^^^ Barr grossly misled Congress in 1989 about his OLC legal memo/summary concluding that the FBI could forcibly abduct people in other countries without the consent of the foreign state.  Now with Trump, same act, same moves.  Barr's 'playbook' is useless today.  Good to see Congress reject his naked schtick tonight.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes. I clearly have a deficit of vocabulary. It comes with being a trumpkin traitor of the republic who should have the boot of the decidedly non-authoritarian authoritarians across their throat because that is how real freedom works. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Captainant

Captainant 27655

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yes. I clearly have a deficit of vocabulary. It comes with being a trumpkin traitor of the republic who should have the boot of the decidedly non-authoritarian authoritarians across their throat because that is how real freedom works. 

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'm telling you, if you want to mine gold, this is the thread.

We're pretty much all pot committed at this point. Might as well push in. At least triple owns his nonsense. Hugo wants to act like everybody here is stupid, and there appear to be plenty of posters willing to concede the point. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

^^^ Barr grossly misled Congress in 1989 about his OLC legal memo/summary concluding that the FBI could forcibly abduct people in other countries without the consent of the foreign state.  Now with Trump, same act, same moves.  Barr's 'playbook' is useless today.  Good to see Congress reject his naked schtick tonight.

Also worth emphasizing again : Not Mueller or any of his team will be present with Barr tomorrow:

Spoiler

 

If there was anything legitimate about this Barr maneuver, Mueller would be present.  

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We're pretty much all pot committed at this point. Might as well push in. At least triple owns his nonsense. Hugo wants to act like everybody here is stupid, and there appear to be plenty of posters willing to concede the point. 

That's better.  All in.  I got a pile of indictments.  what you got ?

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Yes. I clearly have a deficit of vocabulary. It comes with being a trumpkin traitor of the republic who should have the boot of the decidedly non-authoritarian authoritarians across their throat because that is how real freedom works. 

Your vocabulary includes the phrase, "Russia collusion delusion," a direct quote from a semiliterate buffoon with the vocabulary of an 8th grader and the emotional maturity of a 4-year-old. You're a real free thinker, you are. Nope, not easily manipulated at all. 

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notre dame joe

notre dame joe 187

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I spent a few years training at the state hospital. It prepared me well for the Cloak Room. Unfortunately, fixed delusions such as those we are dealing with in this case are not very responsive to antipsychotics. 

Recreational lithium, is it a thing? 

 

Since we only get a few more hours of this; how could Mueller write a report about Russian Meddling and then redact the parts about Russian Collusion?

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Jack Straw

Jack Straw 2954

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Just release the damn thing and stop playing these reindeer games and let the public decide, one way or the other.  If it exonerates trump then the public should see that. If it doesn’t, the public should see that too. 

Said no Republican, ever.  

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh noes the good will of the collective cabal has been abused.  I'm gonna go all fetal position.  Wowe-es me o wooooooowe- es me......  The only Goodwill Jimmy James has are the clothes he gets from their box at the supermarket.

Clothes smack? 

Your rambling like your brain turned to a dotard style mush. Next thing you’re gonna start in with the childish nicknames. Ain’t ya’ mister onboard? 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Clothes smack? 

Your rambling like your brain turned to a dotard style mush. Next thing you’re gonna start in with the childish nicknames. Ain’t ya’ mister onboard? 

Please oh please don't take away that goodwill ... pllllllleeeeeeeazzzzz.  

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EMAWesome

EMAWesome 101

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

The baby is dead.  There is no reason to believe the rule of law applies to Trump or his minions anymore.  Release the entire report.

Just remember the entire report is something like 300 to 400 pages long.  It's not going to be a Dr. Seuss book, more like Dune.  It's going to take some reading time to comprehend everything if it has any worth at all.  Anyone spouting out an hour after it has been released has not read all of it and probably hasn't read any of it.  Just remember that when the talking heads start blabbering about it fifteen seconds after it's release.  Anyone actually bothering to interpret and understand it is going to be quiet until tonight at the very least and the most credible folks won't be stating their opinion on it until tomorrow.

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9818

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Huh?  You would sacrifice intelligence gathering methods and agent identities to the public and an ongoing threat to national security (Russia and others), none of which would seem to be critical to analyzing Trump's culpability, for the sake of your precious report?

There really is something of a perspective vortex here.

You want to preserve some highly classified intelligence ....ok fine.  But ONLY this and the gang of 8 get to see that.  My point is that there is really nothing to preserve.  No matter what is in the report  NOTHING is happening to Trump, his family.  There will be no prosecution via the federal government or state government period.  He is above the law because he has figured out the weakness of our system and if willing to do anything to preserve himself while an entire political party has devoted themselves to this same cause.  They control the Senate, the Prosecutors, the judges, the SC and 40% of the population.  When Trump said he could shot someone in the face and get away with it he was 100% correct.

There is also no urgency or will to act against Russia or any other foreign agency that may be of threat to the US so who gives a shit about protecting evidence against them.  Again an entire political party has decided that this is not a threat and in fact is a valuable asset for their priorities. 

The baby is dead.  Nothing is gonna happen, but the public needs to see the report anyway so that we know what we are up against... even if there is no will to address it at this time.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Posted

Looks like we’ll hear from Mueller in person:

D4baSk_WsAIjvaC.jpg:large

They could have done this a few weeks ago when Barr floated is non-summary, but gave him some space.  After the story about his same deceptions of Congress with the ‘89 OLC memo surfaced this week and his PR stunt for the WH this morning, it was time.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
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1 minute ago, Horn Dog said:

You want to preserve some highly classified intelligence ....ok fine.  But ONLY this and the gang of 8 get to see that.  My point is that there is really nothing to preserve.  No matter what is in the report  NOTHING is happening to Trump, his family.  There will be no prosecution via the federal government or state government period.  He is above the law because he has figured out the weakness of our system and if willing to do anything to preserve himself while an entire political party has devoted themselves to this same cause.  They control the Senate, the Prosecutors, the judges, the SC and 40% of the population.  When Trump said he could shot someone in the face and get away with it he was 100% correct.

There is also no urgency or will to act against Russia or any other foreign agency that may be of threat to the US so who gives a shit about protecting evidence against them.  Again an entire political party has decided that this is not a threat and in fact is a valuable asset for their priorities. 

The baby is dead.  Nothing is gonna happen, but the public needs to see the report anyway so that we know what we are up against... even if there is no will to address it at this time.

Kinda where I stand.  There's not much to lose at this point because our national security and election apparatus has been compromised.  Getting the whole truth out to the public is the best defense for upcoming and ongoing attacks.  I actually think it's a matter of national security that the whole report be made public.  Could this jeopardize ongoing investigations?  Probably but at this point the public would be best served by Mueller getting all the facts he found in the hands of American citizens.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

No matter what is in the report  NOTHING is happening to Trump, his family.

I think that there is value @ 0.20 in Jr. federal indictment before 12/31/19. At minimum expect a small bump today with eye to exit. 

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5140/Will-a-federal-charge-against-Donald-Trump,-Jr-be-confirmed-by-Dec-31,-2019

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