The Robert Mueller Investigation

[elguapo 4586]

Does the report say anything about why Trump never criticizes daddy Putin and turns into a sniveling lapdog whenever they are together?

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

What loss?  The Russia collusion hoax has finally collapsed.

That's not at all what happened today. In fact, just the opposite happened.

[Rimbo 25928]

4 minutes ago, deech said:

This fucking thread man.  If you are a Republican and read that report and are proud of your vote for that guy and the actions detailed in that report - that's on you.  If you are a Democrat and think the leadership of the party is going to wake up now and move forward with impeachment - that's on you.  Until we get campaign finance reform and/or a legitimate third party, the wheel will spin on and on...... 

I think what we'll see is the GOP implode and the Democratic party split. Pelosi will be your new right wing, AOC your new left. But we're gonna see the GOP have one last hurrah before that happens.

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, elguapo said:

Does the report say anything about why Trump never criticizes daddy Putin and turns into a sniveling lapdog whenever they are together?

It's in DSMV under personality disorders. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Just now, Rimbo said:

I think what we'll see is the GOP implode and the Democratic party split. Pelosi will be your new right wing, AOC your new left. But we're gonna see the GOP have one last hurrah before that happens.

[atomheartbevo 89660]

This seems important

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

So after reading volume 1 a few things jump out:

1.  They pulled a Houdini in not charging Manafort with a coordination/conspiracy crime.  My favorite parts were reading statements like “Manafort was periodically passing internal polling data to Deripaska and Kilimnik but we have no idea why he was doing that or what Kilimnik or Deripaska did with that information.  Also, Manafort’s clandestine meeting in NY with Kilimnik where he discussed Trump’s campaign messaging and focusing on the “battleground” states of Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania was really weird.  We don’t know what that was about.”  LMAO

2.  Kushner is a Carter Page level idiot, maybe worse.  He didn’t even know who Kislyak was and when he did find out he thought he wasn’t important enough to get information back to Putin so he explored other back channel options.    Fucking moron. 

3.  The NRA connection between Dearborn to Erickson to Butina is missing, as is Don Jr. to Torshin.  Perhaps it’s in the redactions? 

4. Erik Prince and Bannon both proffered meaning they got quasi immunity but their stories didn’t add up and Mueller didn’t really seek to resolve it.  

5.  Trump and Don Jr basically got away with pleading the 5th without having to plea the 5th which is convenient.  

6.  Flynn is a straight up traitor with the shit he was trying to orchestrate with Russia at the U.N. over the Israel deal while Obama was still president. 

7. The are so many redaction that are suspicious.  Hilarious paragraphs that start with REDACTED and end with, “However, here’s argument that gives them plausible deniability.”

8.  Sessions should have been charged with perjury.

9. It’s unfortunate the hacking into the 24 state voting systems was a big part of the Russian interference and Mueller couldn’t really investigate it because it’s outside the jurisdiction of the federal government.  State governments need to do more, at least the report made and effort to address the issue.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[horncyclist 1387]

I get the political calculation Dems are making, but considering what we learned today, how do you in good conscience allow Trump to continue to sit in the oval office? It's time to act, political risk be damned. Our constitution gives us a mechanism to deal with this. Time to use it

[David Dennison 18856]

2 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

I get the political calculation Dems are making, but considering what we learned today, how do you in good conscience allow Trump to continue to sit in the oval office? It's time to act, political risk be damned. Our constitution gives us a mechanism to deal with this. Time to use it

He cannot be removed by Democrats. They know that. They have no way to remove him from office.

[SubliminalHorn 6787]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

My parents didn’t flee shit. Been here a decade before revolution. Those friends of ours that did leave Iran did so legally. Thanks for playing. Our situation was nothing like the mess of migrants today.

You’re a huge piece of shit. I almost want the far right populists to take total control just so they march your fucking ass either into a camp or out of the country. You’re brown. You’re a second class citizen to them. You don’t make yourself sound smarter parroting their bullshit. You just sound fucking pathetic. Cocksucker. 

[horncyclist 1387]

He cannot be removed by Democrats. They know that. They have no way to remove him from office.

Then put it on Republicans for standing by this traitor.

[deech 2275]

6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I think what we'll see is the GOP implode and the Democratic party split. Pelosi will be your new right wing, AOC your new left. But we're gonna see the GOP have one last hurrah before that happens.

I truly thought the RINO's would split with Trumpers, but that never happened.  I believed that a split on the Democrat party would happen over the course of the next election.  I truly don't believe either happen, but I guess that discussion doesn't really belong here.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Meh.  I was going to get called lots of names either way this whole conspiracy theory broke apparently. "VAPA-ish" doesn't even warm it up for me. But I do appreciate a "late stage" kicker.  I am actually a little surprised that some of the real committed wingnuts aren't ready to dial it down a bit.  I'd like to think that if the grand conspiracy delusions that were peddled here for the last two years had shaken out, for example that Trump campaign payoffs in Prague or content development and micro targeting coordination had been verified, that I would be man enough to take my medicine.  

I never really had an issue with you.   I was crowing about this heading to RICO back before this site existed.  But as a somewhat neutral observer, I can't call it a nothingburger with all the indictments.  Also, how are you cool with taking a victory lap while Barr is taking a shit on the separation of powers?  I mean, I get you not being as upset as the purported nutters on the far left, but why celebrate like some far right lunatic?  That's not you, from what I was told.  Posting all those gifs...JFC, get a grip.  

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

And away we go!

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

I get the political calculation Dems are making, but considering what we learned today, how do you in good conscience allow Trump to continue to sit in the oval office? It's time to act, political risk be damned. Our constitution gives us a mechanism to deal with this. Time to use it

Dems are pussies.  They say they’re being strategic but that’s just an excuse to take the path of least resistance.  They’re cowards.

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dems are pussies.  They say they’re being strategic but that’s just an excuse to take the path of least resistance.  They’re cowards.

All politicians are cowards. They want to get re-elected.

[horncyclist 1387]

Dems are pussies.  They say they’re being strategic but that’s just an excuse to take the path of least resistance.  They’re cowards.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Also considering all the Russian contacts and lying spelled out in the report, what the fuck happened in Helsinki? What is Putin holding over Trump? We do not know. Putin knows. We do not know.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

 

[Longhorn94 2448]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I never really had an issue with you.   I was crowing about this heading to RICO back before this site existed.  But as a somewhat neutral observer, I can't call it a nothingburger with all the indictments.  Also, how are you cool with taking a victory lap while Barr is taking a shit on the separation of powers?  I mean, I get you not being as upset as the purported nutters on the far left, but why celebrate like some far right lunatic?  That's not you, from what I was told.  Posting all those gifs...JFC, get a grip.  

but you dont understand. anastasis is team #bothsides. 

[elguapo 4586]

In his press conference AG Barr told the American people that the WH "fully cooperated" with the SCO. Double digit documented attempts by Trump to obstruct justice say otherwise, Trump refusing to sit down for an interview says otherwise.

Is Barr going to be allowed to get away with this?

[Chooky 13307]

1 minute ago, elguapo said:

Is Barr going to be allowed to get away with this?

Yes.

[retread 2951]

siap .. WaPo has a nice annotated report that gives context to some of the pages

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/read-the-mueller-report/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.18dc3ed17c73

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by retread

[henrygandorf 29190]

ok so here's my new question.

near the beginning of the report, it's established as fact that the russian govt attacked our election.

and since our president keeps claiming "no collusion", that means the russians acted alone.

so why aren't we at fucking war right now?

i mean, i know this isn't nam, but am i wrong?  there are rules here.

[henrygandorf 29190]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dems are pussies.  They say they’re being strategic but that’s just an excuse to take the path of least resistance.  They’re cowards.

what's the upside of impeachment proceedings?  you know they can't get him out of office, right?

[horncyclist 1387]

ok so here's my new question.
near the beginning of the report, it's established as fact that the russian govt attacked our election.
and since our president keeps claiming "no collusion", that means the russians acted alone.
so why aren't we at fucking war right now?
i mean, i know this isn't nam, but am i wrong?  there are rules here.

Dude. Trump asked Putin about and Putin denied it. What more can you do?

[TwiceHorn 31463]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

What does it mean?

 

that Congress has the authority to conduct obstruction of justice investigations, stating that such probes provide a check if a president is corrupt.

"With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice," Mueller wrote in his more than 400-page report.

Mueller said he reached this conclusion after his office set out to examine the past legal precedent governing such matters because the Department of Justice (DOJ) and courts have "not definitively resolved these issues."
"We therefore examined those issues through the framework established by the Supreme Court precedent governing separation-of-powers issues," he wrote.
He also noted that the DOJ and the president's legal counsel have argued that the president "is subject to statutes that prohibit obstruction of justice by bribing a witness or suborning perjury because that conduct does not implicate his constitutional authority."

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/439537-mueller-says-congress-has-authority-to-continue-obstruction

The particular statement referenced was Mueller's discussion of constitutional defenses to obstruction of justice, wherein he opines that Congress may constitutionally enact a criminal law proscribing ("criminalize") certain Presidential conduct, without running afoul of separation of powers doctrine.

Which is also what the quoted section above says.  It's not an "invitation" or encouragement to Congress to start prosecuting crimes. It's a discussion of the constitutionality of congressionally enacted statutes applied against the President.

"Criminalize" doesn't mean prosecute.  Congress can investigate (poorly) and impeach.  That's it.  It certainly didn't need Mueller to tell them that.

The tweet and the headline to the Hill (I've noticed they publish some garbage and so does Politico) article are stupid and reflect a pretty apalling lack of understanding of that section of the report.  If Nadler's people are saying that, he should be fucking ashamed. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

ok so here's my new question.

near the beginning of the report, it's established as fact that the russian govt attacked our election.

and since our president keeps claiming "no collusion", that means the russians acted alone.

so why aren't we at fucking war right now?

i mean, i know this isn't nam, but am i wrong?  there are rules here.

Mutually assured destruction.

That's why.

[Gatorubet 30237]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dems are pussies.  They say they’re being strategic but that’s just an excuse to take the path of least resistance.  They’re cowards.

I see it as strategic.   There are bound to be more indictments, or at least more dirt uncovered in the on-going investigations.   Waiting for more dirt lets them say, "well, I was not sure about impeachment proceedings after the report, but but I was leaning that way, but now that I have this (one or two more dirt dumps) new information, it is our Constitutional duty to bring proceedings to get to the bottom of this."

Some dems need the political cover, and going in too soon or too hard can endanger the  House majority. Realpolitic 

[Dolemite 143]

On 3/25/2018 at 2:18 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

https://www.justice.gov/sco

 

Mueller’s Charges:

 

18 U.S. Code § 1001 - False Statements

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

Paul Manafort 

Rick Gates

Alex van der Zwaan

Michael Flynn

George Papadopoulus

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to defraud the United States
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

Paul Manafort 

Rick Gates 

Konstantin Kilimnik 

26 Russians

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 981 - Civil forfeiture
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/981
Paul Manafort 

Konstanstin Kilimnik 

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 982 - Criminal forfeiture
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/982

Paul Manafort 

Konstantin Kilimnik 

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1956

Paul Manafort

Konstanstin Kilimnik 

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 1349 - Conspiracy 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1349

Paul Manafort

Rick Gates 

26 Russians

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 1344 - Bank fraud Conspiracy 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1344

Paul Manafort 

Rick Gates

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 1028 - Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information.  Identity theft/fraud.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028

26 Russians

Richard Pinedo

 

 

[retread 2951]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Mutually assured destruction.

That's why.

Setting nuclear war aside, imo, there has been no pushback b/c Rs are compromised across our govt.

Before the election, Obama thought Hillary would win, and he thought that pointing out the Russian meddling would align w Trump's accusations and taint the election. I think McTurtle was also an awful human being per always and opposed making the meddling public.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by retread

[TwiceHorn 31463]

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

ok so here's my new question.

near the beginning of the report, it's established as fact that the russian govt attacked our election.

and since our president keeps claiming "no collusion", that means the russians acted alone.

so why aren't we at fucking war right now?

i mean, i know this isn't nam, but am i wrong?  there are rules here.

Why aren't we at war with or without collusion?  I mean, Hugo's right about that.  We should be epically pissed at Russia, period.

Of course, I suppose we do the same thing, so maybe in pari delicto takes some of the bellicose edge off of it.

Edited April 18, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[triplehorn 2664]

Re Papadopolous:

 

In fairness, his notes were placed before him upside down.  That's on the investigators.

 

what's this "disruptive technology" being talked about ?

[David Dennison 18856]

4 minutes ago, retread said:

Setting nuclear war aside, imo, there has been no pushback b/c Rs are compromised across our govt.

Before the election, Obama thought Hillary would win, and he thought that pointing out the Russian meddling would align w Trump's accusations and taint the election. I think McTurtle was also an awful human being per always and opposed making the meddling public.

 

I was just addressing why we aren't at war with Russia.

We're never going to war with Russia. Any war will always be cold as long as the two countries have as many nuclear warheads as they have.

[kevwun 15786]

The Russian's use of social media I imagine is the disruptive technology.

Edited April 18, 2019 by kevwun

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

It's looks like the flesh was willing, but his handlers kept him from going off the reservation.  

The investigations passed onto the states may be more incriminating.

And the report pretty much says no US officials or anyone associated with the Trump campaign knowingly aided Russia in meddling in our election process.

 

Looks like a shit load of redacted material. Somebody in Congress will be seeing the whole report right ?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[Anastasis 23469]

17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I never really had an issue with you.   I was crowing about this heading to RICO back before this site existed.  But as a somewhat neutral observer, I can't call it a nothingburger with all the indictments.  Also, how are you cool with taking a victory lap while Barr is taking a shit on the separation of powers?  I mean, I get you not being as upset as the purported nutters on the far left, but why celebrate like some far right lunatic?  That's not you, from what I was told.  Posting all those gifs...JFC, get a grip.  

I like gifs? [postsaniliketacosmanpicture]

My position on all this nonsense has been pretty clearly laid out in numerous posts and restatements here. Typically in response to being called a treasonous traitor to the republic for calling out the right out nonsense and hysteria here and the scat site. I said that Trump would likely go down for financial crimes related to international real estate.  I didn't anticipate porn start payouts, and that was clearly a deficit in imagination. You need me to call out Barr for being a hack?  OK. He's a fucking hack. I am not sure his hack ass has infringed the power of the House to impeach.  I wish they would.  I am way fucking upside down in that market but committed to riding it out at this point.

Sorry about the gifs.  They bring me joy.

 

[henrygandorf 29190]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I was just addressing why we aren't at war with Russia.

We're never going to war with Russia. Any war will always be cold as long as the two countries have as many nuclear warheads as they have.

right, of course.  and use of the word "war" was intentional, but my question was probably more rhetorical.

my real question is - if the russians attacked us (which they did) and trump was not involved (which he keeps claiming) then why isn't he screaming bloody murder about all the retribution he's going to get?  why aren't we making threats?  maybe we are doing the normal amount of counter-intelligence and spying and who the f knows, but you'd think at least for appearances, our president (who just got "fully exonerated") would be making big blowhard speeches while waving his fist saying "they won't fucking get away with this!"  i mean shit, that's what i'd do.  it would fire the fuck up out of his base and everyone else who's been trained to hate russia for decades.

if you were a staunch republican, and you believed every word out of his mouth, wouldn't you be screaming for retribution? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

what's the upside of impeachment proceedings?  you know they can't get him out of office, right?

The upside is our democracy doesn’t die.  

There is a strong enough case to persuade the public Trump should be removed from office.  That case should be made in an impeachment proceeding.  If the Republicans want to go on record not to remove, make them do that.  Don’t let them weasel out of their loyalty for Trump by not even trying. 

Democracy dies when institutions are weak.  Congress needs to step up and check this outlaw regime.  If it fails it fails but it will never succeed if they don’t even try.

[TwiceHorn 31463]

On the one hand, I suppose it isn't uncommon for Presidents to be restrained from doing unlawful or illegal things by staff.  On the other hand, those things usually are more technical than obstructing justice (like treaty violations or unconstitutional actions).

[retread 2951]

There is def an argument for going ahead with impeachment. Make the Rs in the Senate argue the case for Cheeto.

[tantric superman 4667]

10 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

what's this "disruptive technology" being talked about ?

Napster?

[henrygandorf 29190]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

right, of course.  and use of the word "war" was intentional, but my question was probably more rhetorical.

my real question is - if the russians attacked us (which they did) and trump was not involved (which he keeps claiming) then why isn't he screaming bloody murder about all the retribution he's going to get?  why aren't we making threats?  maybe we are doing the normal amount of counter-intelligence and spying and who the f knows, but you'd think at least for appearances, our president (who just got "fully exonerated") would be making big blowhard speeches while waving his fist saying "they won't fucking get away with this!"  i mean shit, that's what i'd do.  it would fire the fuck up out of his base and everyone else who's been trained to hate russia for decades.

if you were a staunch republican, and you believed every word out of his mouth, wouldn't you be screaming for retribution? 

yes, i'm quoting myself, because i meant to include this - but it's really about how people like trump (whatever narcissistic disorder he has) act and what they say.  i had a boss for 6-7 years that acted remarkably similar to trump.  and whenever he'd fire someone or someone would quit, he'd always talk shit about them, and often times (if he fired them for seemingly no reason) he would say that they were stealing or scamming the company in some way.  

he must've used that one at least 5x.  but in one case, he actually pursued it, filed paperwork, followed through with the police, and did what you're supposed to do.  but it was an obvious tell, because he liked to think "nobody puts one over on me and gets away with it."  he was vindictive as fuck.  so when he said "yeah, that asshole stole a quarter of a million dollars from me and thought he could get away with it" - if he didn't pursue action, we knew it was all bullshit.  he wasn't one to let things go.  so we knew in 4/5 cases it was just bullshit posturing and the shit people tell themselves to justify their actions.

just seems in this case, the correct move would at least be to threaten the shit out of them and act pissed about it.

[SubliminalHorn 6787]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The upside is our democracy doesn’t die.  

There is a strong enough case to persuade the public Trump should be removed from office.  That case should be made in an impeachment proceeding.  If the Republicans want to go on record not to remove, make them do that.  Don’t let them weasel out of their loyalty for Trump by not even trying. 

Democracy dies when institutions are weak.  Congress needs to step up and check this outlaw regime.  If it fails it fails but it will never succeed if they don’t even try.

Is there even anything that would force McConnell to hold the trial in the senate? What then if articles of impeachment passes the House but it dies before any sort of testimony or evidence being presented? What would be the point of that?

Edited April 18, 2019 by SubliminalHorn

[Enchubben 5510]

29 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

All politicians are cowards. They want to get re-elected.

Dam, out of pos rep. Would like this a million times.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

right, of course.  and use of the word "war" was intentional, but my question was probably more rhetorical.

my real question is - if the russians attacked us (which they did) and trump was not involved (which he keeps claiming) then why isn't he screaming bloody murder about all the retribution he's going to get?  why aren't we making threats?  maybe we are doing the normal amount of counter-intelligence and spying and who the f knows, but you'd think at least for appearances, our president (who just got "fully exonerated") would be making big blowhard speeches while waving his fist saying "they won't fucking get away with this!"  i mean shit, that's what i'd do.  it would fire the fuck up out of his base and everyone else who's been trained to hate russia for decades.

if you were a staunch republican, and you believed every word out of his mouth, wouldn't you be screaming for retribution? 

 

Because he views Putin (Russia) as a potential friend and more importantly someone who's shady as fuck like he is that he might like to do business with in the future, like he had clearly tried in the past. 

Trump is a bumbling fool but he knows where his bread is buttered. It's why as soon as people turn on him he goes for the jugular- (Mika and Scarborough, etc.) 

You either put up with the stupid drunk uncle and his bullshit or he's calling you every name in the book like a spoiled 5 year old. It's his MO and has been his entire life. He's a simple man that is in way over his head on a lot of things and isn't used to his lies, half truth's and laughable statements being called out time after time. Because when he was just a self absorbed douche Celeb in NYC everyone put up with him because it was good for the charity event they were attending together and more importantly great PR because the media love themselves The Donald. 

He's basically a comic book character that is so stupid that he was lucky that people in high enough positions in DC put up with the drunk uncle and never followed through with his requests/demands. 

 

 

[Enchubben 5510]

 

[elguapo 4586]

Just now, Enchubben said:

 

#FakeNews the Mueller report very clearly establishes collusion. Be happy your guy was able to wriggle his way out of another jam, no need to lie about it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Is there even anything that would force McConnell to hold the trial in the senate? What then if articles of impeachment passes the House but it dies before any sort of testimony or evidence being presented? What would be the point of that?

To see if our democracy still functions?  Make McConnell be a bitch and scream bloody murder 24/7 when he does it.